2010 Chinese Grand Prix Discussion

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 18 Apr 2010, 13:39

Hamilton overtaking Vettel into the pitlane entrance corner was not the only move that happened there today. The other was Alonso overtaking Massa. I wonder how that went down with the team since they had prepared the tyres for Felipe and then put them on Fernando's car. That move must have cost Massa a large chunk of his championship lead.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 18 Apr 2010, 14:11

Yannick wrote:Hamilton overtaking Vettel into the pitlane entrance corner was not the only move that happened there today. The other was Alonso overtaking Massa. I wonder how that went down with the team since they had prepared the tyres for Felipe and then put them on Fernando's car. That move must have cost Massa a large chunk of his championship lead.

This race had controversial moves aplenty. Both overtakings at the entrance of the pit-lane (Massa won't be happy at all with Alonso, especially since he had to go to the gravel trap because of him), Alonso jumping the start, and Button brake-testing the rest of the cars after the safety car was gone. I think all those moves (apart from the jump start which was sanctioned during the race) should be sanctioned. Oh, yes, and what about Hamilton and his weird entrance to the pit lane the first time? Did he forget he had to pit, or he just wanted to repeat what did there 3 years before?
It has been an incredible race. The best I've seen in my life live, in fact.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 18 Apr 2010, 14:48

Don't really think those are the final results. The Stewards will have to do something about Hamilton (didn't he already get a warning for the Petrov incident??) and Alonso, who clearly cut the track in order to gain an advantage since he crossed the white line.

I see time penalties coming up for them, Alonso should be dropped down behind Massa IMO.

P_Friesacher · Post by **P_Friesacher** » 18 Apr 2010, 15:19

Benetton wrote:Don't really think those are the final results.

It very much seems like they are.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 18 Apr 2010, 15:41

Oh well, looks like the new line in F1 is do what ever you want, we will not punish you for it. You cannot under any circumstances turn around/drive the wrong way on the track, that was done today. Neither can you cross the white line into, or out if pit, that was done today, neither can you overtake outside the white line (that is outside the track), that was done today. Safe release...? Nah, never heard of, pushing in pitlane... oh well... Pushing other cars out of the track during safety car is not allowed. No penalty at all in this race either. I do think some drivers will look at these situations and drive by the "new" rules, at least I would, if that helps me get a better position. One time someone will take it to a point where there are no return, and something will happen. I don't know when, but I know it will happen. Think of all the youngsters that watches F1 on days like today, and learn how to drive, in 10-15 years we have 26 drivers with this attitude...

EDIT: The thing writed in bolded does NOT count, as the white line is before that corner. My mistake. Still, pushing cars of the track, when there is space on the inside is still not allowed though.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 18 Apr 2010, 16:42

In the incident you are referring to I thought that Hamilton ran Webber off the road because Vettel was diving up the inside of Hamilton, pushing him wide. I'd have to look at another replay before calling it though.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 18 Apr 2010, 16:52

I also thought that, but when Looking on it more times there are about 3/4-1 carwidth between Vettel and Hamilton, therefor could Hamilton made a bit more room to Webber. Anyway, I never mentioned any names there, I just think there was some ugly driving on the track today, and it annoys me that the stewards are soft.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 18 Apr 2010, 17:27

Myrvold wrote:I also thought that, but when Looking on it more times there are about 3/4-1 carwidth between Vettel and Hamilton, therefor could Hamilton made a bit more room to Webber. Anyway, I never mentioned any names there, I just think there was some ugly driving on the track today, and it annoys that the stewards are soft.

OK, but let's keep the discourse setting at "family-friendly" level mate.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 18 Apr 2010, 17:30

A fantastic race, I really enjoyed that - so good I watched it twice! (I was half-following it live on a monitor at work, then watched it properly on the iPlayer when I got home). Great entertainment, great racing, all sorts of excitement. I note that, for all the talk of strategy, Button once again passed someone on the track to win the race (Kubica in Melbourne, Rosberg here), although of course those tyre calls were also vital.

I wonder what the fall-out will be from all that pitlane dicing - both Vettel and Hamilton and more intriguingly, Alonso's dive up the inside of Massa, which could easily have gone horribly wrong. Not sure that will make for a great atmosphere between the two of them, even if it was technically a legal move as it was before the white line.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 18 Apr 2010, 17:44

Sorry Carlos, was more thinking about kittens... My bad english caugth me there. Sorry again.

Paul: The move was not technically legal, as he crossed the white line that marks the track.

Pedestrian · Post by **Pedestrian** » 18 Apr 2010, 18:30

About the "leinient" attitude of the stewards: Perhaps they noticed those incidents but couldn't diecide who they should punish. Vettel vs. Hamilton in the pits was pretty much a 50-50 incident (or maybe even 25% for each driver and 25% for their respective pitcrews). The Vettel-Hamilton-Webber squeeze behind the SC was perhaps more the fault of Jenson Button braketesting those behind him on a wet track. As for Alonso overtaking Massa in the pit entrance, the stewards might regard it as a Ferrari internal matter.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 18 Apr 2010, 18:49

No one seems to care about Hamilton driving the wrong direction...

Hamilton vs Vettel, in the pit-entry, Hamilton drove inside the white line, you are not allowed to cross that.

Whoevers fault the SC-situation was, it doesn't matter, there was at least one that broke the rules, if it was 40.1.1 or another, I couldn't cared less.

Alonso vs Massa, OK, they are teammates, still, it does not do any justice to the fact that a rule is broken.

With no penalty at all, young drivers notice that, and start to drive like the big guys in F1 do, and at the end, the rules are there for everyones safety, if it's allowed to break some rules, you will tend to push the limit further, until you hit the limit, and that, can be a sad story.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 18 Apr 2010, 21:42

I still can't figure out why the Vettel/Hamilton reprimand is only about driving into the pitlane. With Hamilton driving along the designated slow lane exiting the pits, how is that not a serious infraction of the sporting regulations? It reminds me of a certain other Briton who was disqualified for doing something in the wrong lane of the pits (Our Nige, Estoril '91). As others mentioned about his pit entry deliberately cutting across the runoff, doesn't that remind anybody of Spa '07? Sure, that decision was draconian, but wasn't the whole problem with that decision the lack of consistancy in its enforcement? Maybe its just me, but Hamilton appears to get away with far more than other drivers would have.

I'm also not keen that he overtook Schumacher. Now we're going to hear that 'boyhood dream' feces for three weeks.

Despite his spin and slow pace on cold tyres post-safety car, a stellar drive from Vitaly Petrov to gain his first finish and points. Renault might only be best of the rest, but with Kubica's performances they're probably the most consistant team of the year after Ecurie BMW Sauber Ferrari Formula One Grand Prix Engineering Switzerland Team.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 19 Apr 2010, 08:36

I'm glad there were no retrospective punishments. I think most of the examples where they could've punished drivers yesterday were examples of bravery and ingenuity. They were risky and to the limit but I don't think they were of the standard where it was either unsafe or dangerous or against the spirit of the rules. Wanting punishment in this sport for anything else is just pedantry/jobsworthyness. We want to promote risk taking, within flexible rules and a healthy relationship between drivers. All pedantic punishment does is get everyone' backs up and turn them into annoying neurotic pedants, and ultimately hypocrites.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 19 Apr 2010, 08:54

No punishments since FOM are worried about the races being a boring procession. Handing out punishments is a sure way to remove any 'action' during any future races, that's why the stewards haven't done anything about all the incidents in my opinion. That, and also they are carefully done to not break any actual rule that anyone can make fit

McLaren have been really smart in what they have been doing to gain an edge on everybody.

* not a mclaren fan, and do think they have been pushing it too far and the rules should be cleared up by the FIA and enforced next time.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 19 Apr 2010, 09:14

that's why the stewards haven't done anything about all the incidents in my opinion

But also because the incidents themselves were debateable and borderline. You're apportioning blame to the whole team whereas the incidents were the split-second instincts and decisions of the racing drivers. Once you start legislating for and against those unclear incidents you find yourself having to make rulings ten times as often, and it makes all the teams and drivers become boring pedants, neurotics and sticklers for the rules, and many of them hypocrites in the process.

I think it's right that a bit of flexibility is shown. It's a long season, and it isn't sending the message 'do what you like', because they've been cautioned. When someone genuinely steps out of line in a way that is unsafe, dangerous or against the spirit of the sport, then we'll see a punishment.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 19 Apr 2010, 09:21

Still, with Hamilton turning more than 90 degrees, if a car had got a techincal problem, no brakes, or stuch throttel, or anything similiar, and the hitted Hamilton almost head to head, it would not be a pretty sight, neither if Hamilton and Vettel had tangled in the pit, and gone into one of the garages, or a pit-crew waiting for another car. When these things don't get penalized, well, then it's free to continue to do things like it, and we will end up with an accident sometime, and THEN it's going to be a hell of a time in newspapers, on the internet, and by the tv-channel, about the action taken by the driver(s) involved, when it all comes down to the fact that the stewards are not giving anyone a penalty for it.

Entrance to the pit lane
a) The section of track leading to the pit lane shall be referred to
as the “pit entry”.
b ) During competition access to the pit lane is allowed only
through the pit entry.
c) Any driver intending to leave the track or to enter the pit lane
should make sure that it is safe to do so.
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards of the Meeting), the crossing, in any direction, of the
line separating the pit entry and the track is prohibited.
e) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards of the Meeting), any line painted on the track at the
pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from
those on the track must not be crossed by any part of a car
leaving the pits.

So, b is a loose one, both Hamilton and Alonso did drive through part of the entry.

However d is not anything to question, both Hamilton and Alonso did cross this line, and none of the reasons can be called force majeure.

e is for the exit of pit, the rules there are even more strict.

I can't see how this is debatable, when is clearly says that it is not allowed. Still they don't get any kind of penalty or punishment for it. I repeat what I have said, the youngsters who see this learns from it, they learn that some rules don't count, it's just a matter of finding out what rules that doesn't count, and break them. Trust me, drivers to that to win, done it myself.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 19 Apr 2010, 09:33

The application of rules is at all times supplanted by the application of common sense.

Hamilton made a last minute decision to go into the pits that actually cost him time there and then. He did that without driving dangerously or unsafely. Therefore the caution he received is proportionate to the misdemeanour in my opinion. And that's what that judgement is, ultimately- a subjective decision.

The whole 'what will the youth learn from this' side-argument is petty moralising and irrelevant. F1 attracts all sorts of characters and there will always be drivers that try and stretch the rules. When your job is to essentially capitalise on the most minute possible opportunities, this sort of thing will happen, and no amount of rule making will stop it. Most people's idols are Senna and Schumacher for goodness' sake.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 19 Apr 2010, 09:39

With Scumachers retirement, and Senna's death now not far way from bein 16 years ago, I can assure you, the young drivers of today, are looking more to Hamilton than Schuamcher or Senna, or Hakkinen...

Hamilton did only get a reprimand for the situation with Vettel, nothing else, and looking on the race, that's unbelivable. Remember, if a driver does the same as Hamilton in Spain, or another race, and get a penalty, they will just say "Hamilton did the same, without getting a penalty" and then, we have a problem. There is such a thing as common sense, that plays in if it's a possibility for it to be force majeure, and it was not that, not even close. And racing in the pit entry, outside the white line... I mean, this opens for a lot of naughty pit-entries in the future.

I really want F1 to be spectacular, and there should be an element of risk. But that risk should come from the track, The risk is there in tracks like Melbourne, Canada, Monaco, Monza and Spa, I don't want to get the element of risk by the drivers breaking rules and not get punished, to then go on and push the line further. When we then have a bad accident, maybe with the worst outcome, we'll get a headhunt for the driver that is blamed by the fans.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 19 Apr 2010, 09:54

I'll preface this post by commenting mostly about Hamilton's pit entry under the safety car when he wasn't aside Vettel.

Myrvold wrote:
Entrance to the pit lane
a) The section of track leading to the pit lane shall be referred to
as the “pit entry”.
b ) During competition access to the pit lane is allowed only
through the pit entry.
..
d) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards of the Meeting), the crossing, in any direction, of the
line separating the pit entry and the track is prohibited.
e) Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the
Stewards of the Meeting), any line painted on the track at the
pit exit for the purpose of separating cars leaving the pits from
those on the track must not be crossed by any part of a car
leaving the pits.

So, b is a loose one, both Hamilton and Alonso did drive through part of the entry.

However d is not anything to question, both Hamilton and Alonso did cross this line, and none of the reasons can be called force majeure.

e is for the exit of pit, the rules there are even more strict.

I can't see how this is debatable, when is clearly says that it is not allowed. Still they don't get any kind of penalty or punishment for it. I repeat what I have said, the youngsters who see this learns from it, they learn that some rules don't count, it's just a matter of finding out what rules that doesn't count, and break them. Trust me, drivers to that to win, done it myself.

As I see it, the guys who were racing into the pitlane (Massa against Alonso, Hamilton against Vettel) may have violated b could have gone the way of force majeure under d in that they were side-by-side as they approached the pit entry.

However under the safety car, Hamilton went about driving along the final turn and then cut across the tarmac runoff to get into the pits. That should have clearly been a violation as he chose to cross the lines and was never forced to do so by another driver. The problem is in the wording of "the line separating the pit entry and the track." McLaren, being the crafty folks that they are, could argue that Hamilton crossed lines which exclusively marked the pit entry and the track from the runoff area, as opposed to crossing a single line separating pit entry from track.

Also, what is the spirit of the regulation, specifically d? Is it to prevent cars which committed to the pits from returning to the circuit proper or to prevent drivers who missed the pit entry to cut back and enter? Since it never clearly states one of the other, I'd say that it could go either way.

I agree that enforcement of the entry and exit lines should be uniform. The placement of the line entering the pits in Shanghai has tarmac inside of it as they turn left. Maybe they could paint a curb there so appealing that area wouldn't get out of order.

F1 should be spectacular but do we really want drivers side-by-side in the pits, where mechanics and marshalls are standing? It goes back to the 'weaving' incident - if people want overtaking, shouldn't the driver ahead be given one move so the attacking driver can attempt to safely overtake as opposed to being blocked around the entire track?

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 19 Apr 2010, 09:58

Remember, if a driver does the same as Hamilton in Spain, or another race, and get a penalty, they will just say "Hamilton did the same, without getting a penalty" and then, we have a problem.

The danger lies in the opposite, where someone gets punished for a similarly minor infringement, and then all the other teams become pedants and hound the stewards to take action on the most minor things. A precedent is not set when no decision is reached, a precedent is set where the stewards do step in, and that is the watermark that the other teams will look at.

There are reasons why Hamilton was not punished, and hypothetically there are good reasons why someone else may get punished in the future for what you could type out and describe them as very similar incidents, but as long as each decision can be justified, people do not need to worry about decisions that were taken in the past. That's not the way judgements are reached. The rules are to promote consistency in decision making, but the decisions themselves are reached on an individual basis, not by citing 'here's what happened in the past', as each incident is unique and therefore subjective.

As I say, your 'what example are we setting to the kids' is nothing more than petty moralising, and ignores the basic fact that racing drivers are characters who are highly trained to spot and capitalise on each moment of opportunity. By getting into this debate you are ignoring the underlying characters Formula 1 has and will always produce, because these characters are the ones with the fortitude and ingenuity to succeed. What Hamilton does on-track to win has no bearing.

If he'd done a Schumacher on Villeneuve at Jerez and escaped punishment, then I might be with you, but this seems like pedantry; petty and neurotic, with no little common sense applied. You're stuck to your position, and just using any argument that will fit.

Plus let's remember that these are skilled racing drivers who are technically capable of doing these things safely, and that there is nothing in it for them by risking damage to their own cars.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 19 Apr 2010, 10:42

RejectSteve: I honestly don't think that should be force majeure, but I can clearly see your point. Still, no need to cross the white line with the whole car, and push others out of the track.

it would not work, as the pit entry is marked with two white lines, Hamilton drove to the runoff area, and turned, first backwards then over the white line, but, as the pit-entry is a sole part of the racetrack, the entry to that lane is directly from the track, straight ahead in the last corner. If you cross the line going the same way as the car moves (the two lines who marks the pit entry) you have clearly done something wrong. To get into the pit, you have to pass the horizontal line/the bowed line that connects to the two lines that mark the "road" to pit, then you are in the pit-entry. And yes it should go the both ways, with the mirrors today, and the rain, Hamilton could not be sure if there is another car there or not.

Regarding the weaving, it have been stated that it is only allowed to make one move, safety.

jackanderton:
Precedent is being set by the actions of the stewards. Similar things can not be treated in different ways, that will create major problems in the future. By not taking actions, they state that they think this is ok. By taking actions, they state that they think it is not allowed. That's how racers think. Now, they can do this without getting a penalty. Think of the situation if Vettel og Alonso gets a penalty for the same thing in the next race, and then Hamilton wins the champ with one point. The rules are clear, either you choose to follow them, or you don't, you can't follow the rules in some situations, and then choose not to in others, that will make some drivers get a clear advantage.
As long as there is a rule that is breaking, it should be a penalty, if not, what is the point of having the rule? Just to make it harder for the stewards and the drivers to remember everything? If a similar situation is justified by the same reasons and rules that was broken this weekend, there will be a hell of a mess. The problem with the Stewards and FIA is the fact that they punish equal situations in different ways.

They are trained to spot at capitalise on each opportunity, but still, drivers know what they get a penalty for, and then, they don't do that. If they don't know, or are sure that they won't get a penalty, they'll do it. I don't know if you have raced yourself or not, but my experience is, that after 3-4 races with breaking of rules withput penalty, people start to race that way, that lies in the nature of human, to push the limits, to push the rules, if they aren't stopped, they will continue to push, and one time, they will push it to far, and then, there is no return. The rules are there for preventin such things to happen. But the rules have to be followed, if not, there are no point in it.

Again, you might say that I don't have any common sense on this, but again, IF Vettel and Hamilton had tangled and run over pit-crews, or even worse, marshalls without helmets, well, then I'm glad I think the way I do. Or if a driver got a stuck throttle when Hamilton drove "wrong way" and there was a front to front collision. I know my way is "what if". But that is the way the rules are set, that's why it's not allowed, what if something happens, well, we won't have that, so we make a rule that forbids it. The rules should be there before an accident, and they should be followed.

Pedestrian · Post by **Pedestrian** » 19 Apr 2010, 17:45

Well Hamilton is not the first driver who decides to take a "shortcut" into the pits. I am 100% certain I saw someone do this in the past (but I can't remember who), so the precedent has allready been set.
Plus, Hamilton can allways invoke the "force majeure" clause. He could claim that the track was slippery due to the rain and he couldn't controll his car well. Certainly under such conditions entering the pits in any way is safer than driving around fora another lap on improper tires. It would not necessarily be the truth but the stewards couldn't have proven anything, so it's understandable that they chose to exercise caution instead of involving themselves in another refereeing scandal.

PWNSNBM · Post by **PWNSNBM** » 19 Apr 2010, 19:04

Just put one of those stick-like things that Kamui ran into in Melbourne at the pit entrance. That should do it.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 19 Apr 2010, 19:11

or a tunnel like abu dhabi, why go for an easy solution if you can do a complicated one?

PWNSNBM · Post by **PWNSNBM** » 19 Apr 2010, 19:20

This wrote:or a tunnel like abu dhabi, why go for an easy solution if you can do a complicated one?

Indeed!

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 19 Apr 2010, 20:03

Pedestrian wrote:Well Hamilton is not the first driver who decides to take a "shortcut" into the pits. I am 100% certain I saw someone do this in the past (but I can't remember who), so the precedent has allready been set.
Plus, Hamilton can allways invoke the "force majeure" clause. He could claim that the track was slippery due to the rain and he couldn't controll his car well. Certainly under such conditions entering the pits in any way is safer than driving around fora another lap on improper tires. It would not necessarily be the truth but the stewards couldn't have proven anything, so it's understandable that they chose to exercise caution instead of involving themselves in another refereeing scandal.

Well, if he can't drive a car on slicks in these conditions, when the other slicks-users were the fastest, I'm not sure how FIA and other drivers will react. And when he then stayed out for a good time during the second rain period, that argument falls through.

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 19 Apr 2010, 20:36

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 19 Apr 2010, 22:08

Lads, this is the "Chinese GP Discussion" thread. On F1Rejects. Passions run high, I know, but let's focus on the important bits.

Kovalainen, what a man! Beating the 6-stopper Hulk is still a victory. And, what's even more important, the Cosworth-powered cars had FLAMES coming out of the exhausts all weekend! :geek:

Chandhok and Senna survived, the former after spinning between Turns 3 and 4 (still trying to figure out how he achieved that. What a chassis...). The car was so slow, Alguersuari lost his front wing by catching him up too quickly (at the end of the race, Webber almost did the same on The Cello...)

Both Virgins started from the pits. Lasted 10 min between the two - and when the lights went on for the warm up lap, one of them was on the grid, but with the front wheels up! They are making us proud, they are.

And Sauber...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 20 Apr 2010, 05:59

CarlosFerreira wrote:And Sauber...

... are doing their absolute best to make the new teams look good.
Woot 1000th post! :mrgreen:

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 20 Apr 2010, 06:09

Wizzie wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:And Sauber...

... are doing their absolute best to make the new teams look good.
Woot 1000th post!

Goddamn post whores

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 20 Apr 2010, 06:14

DonTirri wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:And Sauber...

... are doing their absolute best to make the new teams look good.
Woot 1000th post!

Goddamn post whores

People here need to get jobs.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 20 Apr 2010, 07:22

Still on school ^^

anyway, when Alonso went to the pits, he overtook Massa, and the Ferrari mechanics were not surprised over this, so, that means that Ferrari knew that Alonso was coming in first, or Alonso got Massa's tyres... Ain't that illegal, each driver have their set of tyres?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 20 Apr 2010, 07:40

Myrvold wrote:anyway, when Alonso went to the pits, he overtook Massa, and the Ferrari mechanics were not surprised over this, so, that means that Ferrari knew that Alonso was coming in first, or Alonso got Massa's tyres... Ain't that illegal, each driver have their set of tyres?

oooh I like that conspiracy :lol:

Oh and yeah it is illegal... Tora Takagi was DSQed from the 99 French GP for using tyres marked for teammate Pedro De La Rosa

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 20 Apr 2010, 07:42

If Alonso took Massa's tyres, then Massa took Alonso's tyres, so basically both broke the rules.

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 20 Apr 2010, 08:02

Myrvold wrote:Alonso got Massa's tyres... Ain't that illegal, each driver have their set of tyres?

I did think about that, it may only be an issue with scrubbed tyres. I guess the question is if a set of tyres becomes yours when they get marked up, or when they go on the car for the first time. Being inters they'd be two brand new sets, so neither driver will have broken any allocations, or used a tyre that the other had run previously.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 20 Apr 2010, 08:59

Bleu wrote:If Alonso took Massa's tyres, then Massa took Alonso's tyres, so basically both broke the rules.

They didn't. Both quickly radioed ahead to let the team know Alonso was in front:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/04/m ... sed-doors/

He also made the point that the drivers did well to radio as they came down the pit lane, that Alonso was in front so the mechanics didn’t fit Massa’s intermediate tyres to him by mistake.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 20 Apr 2010, 12:08

Then, well organized by the Ferrari team!

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 20 Apr 2010, 14:29

thehemogoblin wrote:People here need to get jobs.

Another 4 years as a student beckons to me...Carlos, sooner or later, I'll pass you, you know...

Wizzie wrote:
Myrvold wrote:anyway, when Alonso went to the pits, he overtook Massa, and the Ferrari mechanics were not surprised over this, so, that means that Ferrari knew that Alonso was coming in first, or Alonso got Massa's tyres... Ain't that illegal, each driver have their set of tyres?

oooh I like that conspiracy
Oh and yeah it is illegal... Tora Takagi was DSQed from the 99 French GP for using tyres marked for teammate Pedro De La Rosa

Never mind. We wanted action, so from now on FIA will allow teams to break the rules 3 times per race. And this is only the beginning...

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 20 Apr 2010, 18:42

Phoenix wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:People here need to get jobs.

Another 4 years as a student beckons to me...Carlos, sooner or later, I'll pass you, you know...

I remember, not that long ago, when you were quite a bit behind me. Now you're more than 200 posts ahead.

Phoenix, you be crazy.