2010 Turkish Grand Prix Discussion

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 29 May 2010, 23:08

webber is typically vulnerable at starts so I wouldn't be surprised if lewis gets the jump on him after failing to do so in spain.
jenson might get the jump on vettel at the start. don't forget a certain red-helmeted devil too!

I think it's also a good talking point how everyone (BBC pundits especially) have been huffing and puffing about massa not doing anything - at least he's being consistent.. while alonso makes mistake after mistake.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 01:08

coops wrote:
mario wrote:Little update on why Vettel had problems in Q3 - it seems that Vettel had a broken rear roll bar, which was the cause of his maladies.

Again with the problems for Red Bull.

They seem quick but mechanically fragile. Just like in the past.

It's par for the course for an Adrian Newey design. Everything has been designed to the edge.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 May 2010, 08:32

mario wrote:Little update on why Vettel had problems in Q3 - it seems that Vettel had a broken rear roll bar, which was the cause of his maladies. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84006
Nevertheless, Red Bull can see no signs of damage or flat spots on his tyres, so those will be the ones he starts on.

Now, we've talked of problems with the Red Bull's being brittle, but it is still strange that something like a roll bar should have given way - especially considering that they hadn't done that much running by that point.

First it was a broken chassis, now a supposed cracked roll bar in this one... I wonder if Red Bull aren't pandering to him just a tad.

Post by **mario** » 30 May 2010, 09:30

CarlosFerreira wrote:
mario wrote:Little update on why Vettel had problems in Q3 - it seems that Vettel had a broken rear roll bar, which was the cause of his maladies. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84006
Nevertheless, Red Bull can see no signs of damage or flat spots on his tyres, so those will be the ones he starts on.

Now, we've talked of problems with the Red Bull's being brittle, but it is still strange that something like a roll bar should have given way - especially considering that they hadn't done that much running by that point.

First it was a broken chassis, now a supposed cracked roll bar in this one... I wonder if Red Bull aren't pandering to him just a tad.

Possibly; after all, according to Legard's column on the BBC website, Webber is supposed to have a damaged chassis - to quote from an article written on the 28th:

Legard wrote:Interestingly, I'm told that Webber's chassis has also suffered damage but there have been no calls from his side of the garage for a replacement.

Full article on the following page http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jonathanlega ... under.html

After all, Vettel is the product of a very expensive driver development program (Mateschitz and Red Bull have bankrolled Vettel's career from the start), and has been constantly touted as the heir to Schumacher in Germany (and abroad) - so it is going to look a bit embarrassing if he is beaten by Webber, isn't it?

The thing is, Red Bull have to get a handle on their problems, because they are not guaranteed to have such a performance advantage for the rest of the season. Admittedly, this is just one race, but Mclaren seem to have closed up on them in terms of performance, and are still within striking range in both the drivers and constructors championship.

Had Mclaren not made that mistake at Monaco, where Button could well have finished in the points, and Hamilton's wheel not failed in Spain, both of their drivers would have been closer to Red Bull. Furthermore, even though Ferrari seem to have faltered a bit, Alonso is still breathing down the necks of Vettel and Webber, and he will be desperate to close the gap (perhaps a little too desperate, given how hard he has been pushing the car recently).
Red Bull can take some consolation that none of their rivals have inflicted as much damage as they could have on their title chances (as only Massa and Webber have scored points in every race) - but their rivals are unlikely to make the same mistake twice, and have both the resources and the capabilities to close up on them if they are not careful.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 May 2010, 09:51

mario wrote:After all, Vettel is the product of a very expensive driver development program (Mateschitz and Red Bull have bankrolled Vettel's career from the start), and has been constantly touted as the heir to Schumacher in Germany (and abroad) - so it is going to look a bit embarrassing if he is beaten by Webber, isn't it?

Interesting point there. Maybe, if forced to choose in the limit, Red Bull will prefer to support Vettel over Webber. If it comes to that, I bet Mark will not be impressed.

Post by **mario** » 30 May 2010, 11:20

CarlosFerreira wrote:
mario wrote:After all, Vettel is the product of a very expensive driver development program (Mateschitz and Red Bull have bankrolled Vettel's career from the start), and has been constantly touted as the heir to Schumacher in Germany (and abroad) - so it is going to look a bit embarrassing if he is beaten by Webber, isn't it?

Interesting point there. Maybe, if forced to choose in the limit, Red Bull will prefer to support Vettel over Webber. If it comes to that, I bet Mark will not be impressed.

There might be a point where Mark is asked to back Vettel, although at the moment it is too close to call (since there is - literally - nothing to choose between them). There might be pressure from the top, considering Mateschitz's backing of Vettel, but ultimately the team will back the driver most likely to win them the WDC. Now, before the season started, most people would have backed Vettel, although if Webber can keep his momentum up and open up a sizeable points lead, then Vettel might be asked to back Webber.
It'll also depend on how close the opposition are - if Mclaren or Ferrari close up on them, and put real pressure on Red Bull, that will force their hand earlier. But, if Red Bull can maintain their advantage, then they will probably be happy to let the drivers battle it out between themselves (as long as they don't repeat the 1986 season, where Williams had the best car, but infighting between the drivers let Prost sneak in under the radar and take the title).

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 30 May 2010, 12:05

After the best part of 3 races stuck behind him, Button finally passes Schumie.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 12:27

Hamilton is driving like a man possessed. The battle for the lead has been exciting and the first real proper fight for 1st we've had this season.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 12:28

And just as I post that Hamilton lets the car bog on the exit out of the pitbox, dropping him behind Vettel and most likely ending that fight.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 30 May 2010, 12:35

That shot of the radar screen, theres one small rain cloud on a collision course with the track!

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 12:37

IdeFan wrote:That shot of the radar screen, theres one small rain cloud on a collision course with the track!

Oh man that cloud looks ominous. Slicks in the rain time!

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 12:39

Webber hasn't run away from Vettel like I thought he would though.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 30 May 2010, 12:43

It's NOT going to rain, it's NOT going to rain.

Don't get your hopes up, you won't be disappointed.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 12:50

It's okay, I'm actually hoping it won't rain. Last time it rained in F1, I was in live attendance and it was the worst possible result for me: a 1-2 for the Evil English Empire.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 30 May 2010, 12:52

Martin Brundle: "The Red Bulls have pulled four tenths over McLaren on the last lap, it's almost as if they have flicked a switch."

A ride height adjustment switch? Conspiracy theorists stand up!

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 12:54

IdeFan wrote:Martin Brundle: "The Red Bulls have pulled four tenths over McLaren on the last lap, it's almost as if they have flicked a switch."

A ride height adjustment switch? Conspiracy theorists stand up!

If only McLaren still had Fernando Alonso. They can really use his six tenths right now!

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 12:55

Although I can't even see the four tenths Brundle is talking about considering Button is consistently pulling new fastest laps...

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 30 May 2010, 12:58

LionZoo wrote:Although I can't even see the four tenths Brundle is talking about considering Button is consistently pulling new fastest laps...

Yeah that happened a few laps before I said it, both Mclarens upped their game to match. I just wanted to make a conspiracy theorist joke. Also, Lotus

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 12:59

The Lotuses seem to have run into some sort of problem as Trulli has retired and Kovalainen is in the garage within minutes of each other. That's a shame as I'm starting to become a bit of a Lotus fan since I'm seriously considering the Lotus Elise for my next car purchase...

And now the monitors are showing Kovalainen as retired also. I wonder what it can be. My broadcast commentary is in Cantonese and I don't understand Canto.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 30 May 2010, 13:05

Japan '07 flash-back.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 30 May 2010, 13:06

Just as I thought 'nando had it in the bag, Vettel snatches RotR, unforgivable.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:07

We thought World War 3 would start at McLaren, but instead it's starting at Red Bull. What the hell was Vettel thinking cutting in like that?

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:07

And goddamn even without rain this is looking like another 1-2 for the Evil English Empire! I am not pleased!

crazydude1992 · Post by **crazydude1992** » 30 May 2010, 13:08

On the plus side, Kobayashis in the points!

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 30 May 2010, 13:09

crazydude1992 wrote:On the plus side, Kobayashis in the points!

You're crazy, dude.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:11

shinji wrote:
crazydude1992 wrote:On the plus side, Kobayashis in the points!

You're crazy, dude.

I think he's just 1992.

Can I please please please please have a McLaren collision now? Pretty please?

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 30 May 2010, 13:11

Sebastian making the international symbol for insanity - referring to himself, no doubt. Ridiculous.

War has erupted at Red Bull.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 30 May 2010, 13:12

LionZoo wrote:
shinji wrote:
crazydude1992 wrote:On the plus side, Kobayashis in the points!

You're crazy, dude.

I think he's just 1992.

Can I please please please please have a McLaren collision now? Pretty please?

Button is closing, as much as I would like to see either Mclaren driver win, i'd like intra-team collisions more!

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:14

eytl wrote:War has erupted at Red Bull.

Does this mean that Jenson and Jessica's split is no longer the BIG NEWS in Formula One? Please say no...

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:17

IdeFan wrote:
LionZoo wrote:I think he's just 1992.

Can I please please please please have a McLaren collision now? Pretty please?

Button is closing, as much as I would like to see either Mclaren driver win, i'd like intra-team collisions more!

GODDAMN! Almost!

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 30 May 2010, 13:17

Jenson and Lewis show how to race your team mate.....so far.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:19

IdeFan wrote:Jenson and Lewis show how to race your team mate.....so far.

Actually, on replays, it looks like they did touch. It just wasn't quite the stupidity that Vettel showed.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 30 May 2010, 13:21

I just looked at another replay of Webber-Vettel. Webber actually started shifting slightly right when he realised Vettel was fully alongside. Smoking gun evidence that it's all Sebastian's fault.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:22

The Alguersaurus for fastest lap. Where did that come from?

And Kobayashi gets passed out of the points. Judging by split times, it looks like his tires are shot. This race is starting to suck...

It looks like a lot of cars are running into fuel consumption issues though.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 30 May 2010, 13:25

Hamilton and Button trying to out-reject the Red Bulls here. If they pull that off and Webber succumbs to the damage ftom collision...

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:27

Petrov has a puncture and Kobayashi has really slowed down. What is the problem here? He seems to be seriously lacking in straightline speed.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 30 May 2010, 13:31

I'd sack Vettel and Webber for batplugging dangerous driving

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 30 May 2010, 13:32

As idiotic as what Vettel did was, Webber 3rd and Vettel nowhere is arguably better for Webber than him first and Vettel second, because even with McLaren's improvement, the Red Bulls are still quicker.

Wonder just how upset Webber'll be when he thinks about it in a few days.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 13:33

One of the most exciting races this season, but the results really suck for me...

EDIT: Actually Kobayashi took 10th and a point. Who was it that got past him a few laps from the end? Screw that, it's time for the celebration sake! KOBAYASHI!!!

crazydude1992 · Post by **crazydude1992** » 30 May 2010, 13:35

Eh? The results on the screen say Kobayashi scored a point! Either Jamie made a mistake or timing problems...