CarlosFerreira wrote:All fair. But let me point out a few people who are sort of slipping under the radar:
- Massa: how many times did he bang Liuzzi? 150? - Alonso: passed by Hamilton while lapping Buemi, passed by Button while lapping one of the Virgins. Not good for an experienced and aggressive 2-times WDC - Barrichello: Hulkenberg had never raced in Canada, but despite that qualified 0.004 down on Rubens, and ended up in front of him, despite several cock-ups. - Kobayashi: out in Q1, in the wall in Lap 1. Even Peter Sauber wasn't impressed. - Sauber: just rubbish all weekend.
Buemi was leading the race when Alonso was trying to pass him. That is why he was struggling as Buemi was in his rights to defend.
And it Chandhok he got stuck behind when Button sneaked through wasn't it?
I think Schumacher was the definite reject of the race though Petrov had a poor race too.
All good points, thanks. But I maintain Alonso was a bit innocent today, beaten on track by both McLarens as a result of traffic. Not the kind of racecraft I've come to expect of him, although the points you make do make sense.
Bridgestone - I don't know why this is overlooked but if the guys at Bridgestone are saying "the tires are not going to make it to the end of the race" then we have a problem. Nevermind they did, but how many tire changes have we seen today?
Red Bull - Again with the reliability issues and again with being outsmarted! I think they need to devote more time to working on strategies and the car rather than publicity stunts and promotional material. And now they lost WDC and WCC. If they continue, they might be ROTY in my book.
Rookies in established teams - Kobayashi took himself out, Hulkenberg cut chicanes and sped in the pitlane, and Petrov got numerous penalties, jumped the start, and nearly took De La Rosa and himself out, and all of these instances to me looked like typical rookie failures. Only Alguersuari is excused, really.
Robert Kubica - That pitlane maneuver nearly caused a huge crash for him and Sutil and almost ruined Sutil's day (if it weren't for Sutil passing Schumacher later on.
Sauber in general - Not much to say about that. De La Rosa was doing (reasonably) well when his engine went, but Sauber seems to have the most engine trouble out of all the Ferrari teams. I wonder if it's something with the car and how the car is working with the engine rather than the engine itself. Either way, they need to shape up.
But the big winner is
Michael "Spoonface" Schumacher - Driving like a jerk, cutting chicanes numerous times, running drivers off the road, chewing up tires, and overall being a dick on the circuit. There might be driving like you're fighting for the lead, but there is then driving like a tool, and Schumacher drove like a tool. And here's the thing; I used to like Schumacher but now I am highly disappointed with his driving. It's not that he's too old; it's that his ego is about the size of Montreal itself and that gets the better of him.
Dan B wrote:Bridgestone - I don't know why this is overlooked but if the guys at Bridgestone are saying "the tires are not going to make it to the end of the race" then we have a problem. Nevermind they did, but how many tire changes have we seen today?
Considering how exciting the race was, that's a good thing surely?
Dan B wrote:Bridgestone - I don't know why this is overlooked but if the guys at Bridgestone are saying "the tires are not going to make it to the end of the race" then we have a problem. Nevermind they did, but how many tire changes have we seen today?
Considering how exciting the race was, that's a good thing surely?
It was; but going to North America and looking like their tyres are rubbish wasn't in the plan, surely. Not that I am complaining.
watka wrote:Robert Kubica - Purely because his cutting into the pitlane could have caused a HUGE accident with Sutil. Why did he duck behind Sutil before going in?
To be fair, according to Kubica, Sutil also braked earlier than he was expecting, which forced him to have to dart past on the inside. Which makes sense, I doubt Kubica would've wanted to try such a risky move when it wouldn't really gain him anything.
OK then, I do often make comments without knowing the full story. I would imagine that Sutil only braked early though because he thought he'd lost the position to Kubica and wanted to have the best chance of following him down the pit straight. Therefore, in my view, it's a racing incident.
watka wrote:Robert Kubica - Purely because his cutting into the pitlane could have caused a HUGE accident with Sutil. Why did he duck behind Sutil before going in?
To be fair, according to Kubica, Sutil also braked earlier than he was expecting, which forced him to have to dart past on the inside. Which makes sense, I doubt Kubica would've wanted to try such a risky move when it wouldn't really gain him anything.
OK then, I do often make comments without knowing the full story. I would imagine that Sutil only braked early though because he thought he'd lost the position to Kubica and wanted to have the best chance of following him down the pit straight. Therefore, in my view, it's a racing incident.
My view as well, it seems that Kubica and Sutil had a mutual misunderstanding which unfortunately resulted in a puncture for Sutil.
Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing, I wouldn't be in Formula 1
As much as it pains me to say it, my nomination, too, goes to Michael Schumacher, the 7-time World Champion who was lapped today and finished outside the points.
I also proactively nominate next year's tyre supplier, whoever it will be, if they fail to learn from today and make the tyres too durable.
I can't see how it can be anyone but Michael Schumacher. Other teams and drivers were horribly slow (Sauber, Virgin) other people bungled the strategy (Webber), other people did some dodgy dangerous driving (Kubica) but no one else managed all three!
"Well we've got this ridiculous situation where we're all sitting by the start-finish line waiting for a winner to come past and we don't seem to be getting one!" - James Hunt, Monaco 1982
I'm still going for the stewards... I know I've said this after almost every race this year, but they really need to be better.
What are they doing excactly? having waffles and coke? First off, you are not allowed under any circumstances to cross the white line out of pit, not with a single part of your car... This was done today. You are not allowed to cut over/cross the white line into the pit whit your whole car, this was done today. There are just one line to drive in the pit-lane, the that space, that arent in "asphalt-color" are not for driving on... That seems to be a problem for one of the McLaren boys.
That was the pit-lane episodes... And then... reprimands... Hello... what's the freaking point? I thought that one reprimand was a warning, one more, was a penalty... but Hamilton have gotten two in a short period of time, nothing happens... and now the reprimand Alguersuari and Kubica too... again, what's the point, they can still break the rules later on, and not getting penalized...
You all do realise of course that Germans of one description or another have just zoomed high into favouritism after the 4-0 drubbing they gave the Socceroos (or should I say, "Shockeroos") straight after the race ... and made me rue the decision to pull an all-nighter and watch both the GP and the football live.
My nominations: Red Bull: They should be leading both championships by a massive margin right now but thanks to crappy stratagies, mistakes and shocking reliability they're not. This is stuff you expect from a Lower-Midfield team, not a championship contender. Schumacher: Need I say more Petrov: Got 2 penalties in the space of about 15 seconds and then did bathplug all for the rest of the race. Sauber: 17th and 18th in Qualifying (And they were lucky to manage that) and then Kobayashi made an awesome start but found the wall at the end of lap one while DLR gets caught up in Petrov's epic failing at the start and retired with another engine failure (Exactly how many Ferrari engines have detonated or been damaged this season?)
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
mario wrote:I'm wondering what the hell has been going on in this thread [...] it's turned into a bizarre detour into mythical flying horses and the sort of search engine results that CoopsII is going to have a very hard time explaining ...
eytl wrote:You all do realise of course that Germans of one description or another have just zoomed high into favouritism after the 4-0 drubbing they gave the Socceroos (or should I say, "Shockeroos") straight after the race ... and made me rue the decision to pull an all-nighter and watch both the GP and the football live.
I approve of this ROTR (Assuming you're talking about making Germany ROTR that is).
Novitopoli wrote:Everytime someone orders at Pizza Hut, an Italian dies.
I don't think chickening out of duels by cutting chicanes to stay ahead is proper racing though.
Dear God, this. Schumacher drove like some 14 year-old kid racing against real people online for the first time. Kept expecting to see "SCHUEY7WDCLOL has disconnected" pop up at some point.
So, yeah... Schumacher. It also seems to have gone uncommented that he tagged Kubica's gearbox at the start, snapping off the superstructure on the left side of his front wing - but the mounts survived, so it didn't need to be replaced.
I coined the term "Lewisteria". The irony is that I actually quite like Lewis Hamilton.
CarlosFerreira wrote:All good points, thanks. But I maintain Alonso was a bit innocent today, beaten on track by both McLarens as a result of traffic. Not the kind of racecraft I've come to expect of him, although the points you make do make sense.
I agree that he was mugged by both McLarens which you don't expect from a double world champion. It was curious that his pace compared to the McLaren was very similar but he was competely unable to get close and do something about them.
There are several worthy candidates for this one, but my nomination goes to Vitaly Petrov. He has impressed me on occasions this year, but yesterday he looked exactly like the clueless pay-driver I thought he would be at the beginning of the season (if that sentence makes sense!).
Easy "win" for Michael Schumacher. Poor qualifying, Kubica fight was 50-50, Massa move was horrible, spent too long on the soft tyres and finally fell out of the points on the last lap anyway.
Although Petrov put up a good fight, jumping the start, driving onto the grass, taking out De La Rosa and finally finishing behind a Lotus.
My word, this is hotly contested. Let's go through the candidates:
Petrov: Hulkenberg was castigated for finishing behind one of the new teams' cars earlier in the season, Petrov deserves to be as well. He caused a startline incident, picked up two drive-throughs and ended up behind Kovalainen. He has potential, I don't deny, but yesterday proves that he has a lot of growing up to do.
Kobayashi: Out in Q1, almost outqualified by Kovalainen, rookie error on lap 1. As someone once said: "Bonsai not banzai".
Sauber: 17th and 18th on the grid and a double DNF. Lotus may overtake them before season's end if they're not careful.
Massa: Possibly a little harsh, but he was a bit careless at the start with Liuzzi, and never matched Alonso's form all weekend. Looking like 2008 was a flash in the pan.
Hulkenberg: Had a decent chance of points but screwed it up with some silly mistakes.
Schumacher: What was he playing at? Tried to make up for his general slowness with idiotic driving when defending. Also worth mentioning the strategy call which left him on softs for so long at the end, depriving him of points.
I think I'll give it to Sauber, but it's a close call. It's been a while since so many rejectful things happened in one race.
Nico Rosberg wrote:Break me down mentally? Good luck with that one.
Wizzie wrote:My nominations: Red Bull: They should be leading both championships by a massive margin right now but thanks to crappy stratagies, mistakes and shocking reliability they're not. This is stuff you expect from a Lower-Midfield team, not a championship contender.
To me, Red Bull have a fast car, but a lower-midfield team mentality. They still like to parade themselves as the fun team on the grid, whilst their race organisation leaves a lot to be desired.
This one is difficult because of so many minor offenses.
Vitaly Petrov's performance sticks out because of the sheer number of penalties he got.
Michael Schumacher was not up to pace at all, but his was an entertaining drive nonetheless. He kind of turned into a Trulli train. The other Mercedes wasn't much better. So Mercedes GP would be an obvious candidate for lack of performance.
Speaking of lack of performance, it's a shame for this Sauberista that his favourite team deserves a mention. I've never expected much of De La Rosa to begin with, so his performance is not a surprise. But Kobayashi qualifying last of the established teams, P18, and then stuffing it into the Wall Of Champions on Lap 1 whilst already being as high up as P10 deserves to be mentioned. Yet, there are worse offenders.
Felipe Massa. He proved that day he's been to Force 1ndia's Liuzzi what his former teammate Raikkonen was to Force 1ndia's Sutil. Massa made one overambitious move at the start and in the course of that, he banged into Liuzzi's car not once, not twice, but three times until he finally had spun around Liuzzi's car on the exit of Turn 2, ruining both their races. And at the end, he tangles again with his old mentor Schumacher on the approach to the chicane, losing his front wing in the process. It's strange that Massa still does not know how to properly overtake Schumacher. He's shown that in another race this year already (I think it was China).
But the winner lies somewhere in the overtaking manoeuvre that Sutil pulled on Kubica, who then as Sutil was braking for the chicane, took back position, crossed Sutil's line and continued on at high speed into the pitlane, leaving a probably slightly confused Sutil to shake his head in disbelief as he goes across the chicane. At all cost, Kubica wanted to run at maximum speed into the pitlane despite there being a slower car on the racing line about to turn into him. Yet, to not lose position at the pitstop, you must do exactly that. That is mad.
Therefore I nominate the pitlane entrance speeding line for Reject Of the Race. If it were closer to the penultimate corner and adjusted in location to the speeds driven on the racing line, there would be no more such dangerous situations.
"I don't think we should be used to finance (the manufacturers') R&D because they will produce that engine anyway" said Monisha Kaltenborn. "You will never see a Mercedes using a Ferrari engine or the other way round."
Petrov: Recieved two penalties before even getting to the first corner.
Sauber: Bad result in qualifying (Kovalainen was only 3 tenths off Kobayashi's time in Q1) and another double retirement.
Schumi: Beaten by Liuzzi - who was involved in the first corner collision with Massa - for tenth place. Also forced Kubica off the road. Not exactly what is expected of a 7 time World Champion.
Frankly, there was some quite atrocious driving, all told, and there are quite a few nominees. Schumacher should, frankly, have started in the top 10, so he was already in the running from Saturday. Then, during the race, he made some strange decisions, drove pretty poorly all told, and finished out of the points.
However, Mercedes in general are in with a shout. OK, Rosberg got the best out of the car he probably could have, but they were miles behind Red Bull, and Kubica was within a lap or two of passing Rosberg, such was the rate he was catching him at the end. Meanwhile, they forced Schumacher to run a set of super soft tyres for 37 laps, when they should have known that there was no way they would last until the end of the race, and made a few strange strategy calls.
Sauber are also struggling - Kobayashi and De La Rosa were struggling in qualifying, and although Kobayashi made a blistering start, he blew it by crashing into a wall (although how much of a difference would it have made if he hadn't been able to drive off, and brought out a safety car, I wonder?). De La Rosa, meanwhile, ended up in the familiar situation of spending more time watching the race instead of taking part in it, thanks to yet another engine failure.
Meanwhile, quite a few of the rookies underperformed - Petrov ruined his race with two avoidable penalties, and was constantly trying to overdrive the car, Hulkeneberg made a few dodgy moves (like running into the back of one of the Force India's in the hairpin), and frankly should have been reprimanded for cutting the final chicane so many times (and in a few instances, he appeared to use that as a way of avoiding losing his position), and Di Grassi didn't look happy at any point during the weekend (although, to be fair to him, he lost a lot of practise time due to mechanical problems, and was probably running a sub-optimal set up).
Kubica's pit entry move deserved more than a dressing down from Whiting - cutting across somebody's line, especially with such a speed difference between the two cars, could have so easily have ended with an almightly crash, and was quite dangerous.
Finally, there is Massa. Again, he was off Alonso's pace in qualifying, ended up in a first corner collision which was potentially avoidable on his part, and struggled for race pace thereafter (as for the Schumacher incident, I would say that both Schumacher and Massa played their parts - Massa should have known he was on the wrong line to pass, but Schumacher could have been a bit less abrupt with his move back to the racing line). All in all, I hate to say it, but he seemed to be doing everything to prove to Ferrari that signing him up for 2 years was the wrong thing to do...
Martin Brundle, on watching a replay of Grosjean spinning: "The problem with Grosjean is that he want to take a look back at the corner he's just exited"
mario wrote:Kubica's pit entry move deserved more than a dressing down from Whiting - cutting across somebody's line, especially with such a speed difference between the two cars, could have so easily have ended with an almightly crash, and was quite dangerous.
I've mentioned this before, but Sutil caught Kubica out under braking, which forced him to take evasive action. Otherwise, there would definitely have been a massive accident.
Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing, I wouldn't be in Formula 1
down on Rubens, and ended up in front of him, despite several cock-ups.
