The End Of The Ledge?

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 15 Sep 2010, 07:58

pablo_h wrote:Yeah legard is a dolt.
I look forward to seeing practice sessions because the commentators are so much better than what you get during the race from BBC
for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikasr6UkqY8

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I find Croft's kind of enthusiastic commentary inexplicably irritating.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 15 Sep 2010, 08:18

J Washburn Stoker wrote:
pablo_h wrote:Yeah legard is a dolt.
I look forward to seeing practice sessions because the commentators are so much better than what you get during the race from BBC
for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikasr6UkqY8

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I find Croft's kind of enthusiastic commentary inexplicably irritating.

Yeah, I wasn't keen on the Crofty version either - it just seemed like Legard but faster. Still full of "up the hill, round the left hander" etc.

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 15 Sep 2010, 10:30

fjackdaw wrote:Still full of "up the hill, round the left hander" etc.

That's because It's radio commentary.

Pieman · Post by **Pieman** » 15 Sep 2010, 10:40

How and where do I apply as a replacement for Legard - anyone know? (I'm being serious, by the way.)

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 15 Sep 2010, 10:45

Jordan192 wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:Still full of "up the hill, round the left hander" etc.

That's because It's radio commentary.

Ah, okay.

Pieman wrote:How and where do I apply as a replacement for Legard - anyone know? (I'm being serious, by the way.)

Contact the BBC directly, they'll put you onto the BBC Sport office. However, unless you have other TV or radio commentating experience (which for all I know, you do), they're unlikely to drop you in as the lead commentator of their flagship sports programme - that role will be filled by moving someone up the ranks from one of the other series or media. But there's no harm in asking.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 15 Sep 2010, 11:04

David Croft is also partly responsible for commentating on the darts on BBC, and not the championship with any of the big-name dartists competing, but thats during the time when F1 is not abundant, darts commentary is where the cliche was born, which may cancel Croft out.

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 15 Sep 2010, 11:09

eytl wrote:I have a theory about what made Murray Walker so loved and both Allen and Legard both so loathed.

...For example, he would describe a driver going through Pouhon, and then tell you that Pouhon was a corner taken in which gear, and at what speed at the apex, and then provide some further comments about the driver (e.g. where he started on the grid, how many points he's scored this year, other teams he's driven for, background before F1 etc.)

In other words, Walker's commentary was deceptively high in information. The other thing which he managed to maintain was an awe for the people he was commentating on as if he looked up to them as heroes, even if they were young enough to be his grandkids....

Enoch, you are now not only a Senior Grand Prix Analyst, you are a Senior Commentary Analyst and I fully expect that title to be included in your podcast introductions from now on.

You are so spot on with what you are saying here. It's the kind of detail I really want to hear about. What distance from the corner does the driver hit the brakes, what gear, apex speed, exit speed.

We get some of that information currently, mostly from Brundle, but we generally hear about the g loading or brake pedal pressure currently, I guess because they are staggeringly high figures.

We don't hear a lot of the driver history anymore which is a shame.

I found James Allen was always pretty good at filling dull races with information he'd learned during the weekend regarding any topical story that was going on. For example this year he would have spoken about the flexi wing drama and things like that. He was very good at doing that and did sound more knowledgable than Legard though he did suffer from the shouty, over the top exuberance too.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 15 Sep 2010, 11:16

Another reason to vote for Toby Moody, if there was a poll for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptI7jYlr9Q

coops · Post by **coops** » 15 Sep 2010, 11:29

patrick wrote:Legard doesn't really bother me, neither did Allen despite the fact they were both a bit silly. They only really seem to bother the autosport-forum-fanboy types.

I agree. I just want someone to tell me where we are, what lap it is and where that driver is. The detail stuff I get from Brundle and he is without peer in my opinion (James Hunt was also peerless but for different reasons)

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 15 Sep 2010, 11:38

Realistic choice: Crofty or Maurice Hamilton, I really like the 5 live commentary and they have shown they can do TV well with their friday practice commentary (where they talk as if you can see whats going on, which you can if you stream it from the website). Davidson is a bit "meh" and would overlap with Brundle, so leave him on the wireless.

Outlandish choice: Replace the whole team with Julian Ryder and Toby Moody in the box and Randy Mamola in pit lane, their MotoGP commentary on Eurosport back in the day was excellent, sadly I can't get it anymore and have to make do with the bland Parrish and Cox.

Impossible choice: Murray Walker and Zombie James Hunt?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 15 Sep 2010, 12:14

Go home Jonathan Legard.

watka · Post by **watka** » 15 Sep 2010, 12:46

As a few people have mentioned, Ben Edwards and Charlie Cox are more suited to the high octane motorsports such as BTCC and MotoGP respectively, which have more overtaking and more panel-bashing. They'd still be a major step up from Legard though, who gets things wrong far too often and gets fake excited about things that are not that exciting.

Murray Walker was able to provide some memorable commentary to some classic moments but ALSO fill the gaps with great stats and knowledge about the sport. It seems to come from his great passion for the sport, which no other commentator can seem to offer these days.

Perhaps they should just stick Jonathan Pearce in the commentary booth. He can make Blackburn vs Bolton entertaining.

TimmyB · Post by **TimmyB** » 15 Sep 2010, 13:12

I'm surprised nobody has suggested Adrian Rees yet.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 15 Sep 2010, 14:05

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

If it happens.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 15 Sep 2010, 14:23

Martin Brundle could just as well fit the "murray walker" role now, and maybe get another former, more recent driver to be the "expert". Anyway, as long as Martin keeps his gridwalks, I'm happy!

And I would've liked to tested Damon Hill, I've always found him well spoken.(or what it is called in English:P)

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 15 Sep 2010, 14:39

Myrvold wrote:And I would've liked to tested Damon Hill, I've always found him well spoken.(or what it is called in English:P)

[autosportforums]OMG HE SAID SOMETHING MEAN ABOUT SCHUMACHER! HE'S SO BIASED !!!!11!!1![/autosportforums]

JeanDenisAlcatraz · Post by **JeanDenisAlcatraz** » 15 Sep 2010, 14:44

How about moving DC upstairs? He's in the same position that Brundle was in in 1997, so he can give up-to-date analysis of the cars. Keep Brundle in the other seat.

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 15 Sep 2010, 15:55

Myrvold wrote:Martin Brundle could just as well fit the "murray walker" role now, and maybe get another former, more recent driver to be the "expert". Anyway, as long as Martin keeps his gridwalks, I'm happy!
And I would've liked to tested Damon Hill, I've always found him well spoken.(or what it is called in English:P)

When Damon filled in for Brundle back in Hungary 08 I think it was, his one outstanding contribution was suggesting that one of the drivers should be made to sit on the naughty step for some misdemeanour. I forget which driver but it was very funny.

DC I'm not so sure on. His Red Bull bias is often over the top and when they showed some onboard footage of Paul Di Resta in China while interviewing Di Resta, he kept saying "you missed the apex there, was that on purpose or do you just not know the track?" It was overly critical in my opinion!

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 15 Sep 2010, 16:28

BigG80 wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Martin Brundle could just as well fit the "murray walker" role now, and maybe get another former, more recent driver to be the "expert". Anyway, as long as Martin keeps his gridwalks, I'm happy!
And I would've liked to tested Damon Hill, I've always found him well spoken.(or what it is called in English:P)

When Damon filled in for Brundle back in Hungary 08 I think it was, his one outstanding contribution was suggesting that one of the drivers should be made to sit on the naughty step for some misdemeanour. I forget which driver but it was very funny.

I remember that. I found him oddly low-key though, not as good as I thought he'd be. He didn't seem to have much energy. I don't know if he was just nervous.

coops · Post by **coops** » 15 Sep 2010, 16:51

As we're going for Brundle +1 Ex F1 Driver what about Eddie Irvine? He could be the new James Hunt.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 15 Sep 2010, 17:00

coops wrote:As we're going for Brundle +1 Ex F1 Driver what about Eddie Irvine? He could be the new James Hunt.

I think both of them would be problematic, DC has the aforementioned Red Bull bias, and they're both prone to swearing a lot and they'd probably let go if something really exciting happened (can you imagine Irvine's reaction to Webber's crash in Valencia :lol:

)

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 15 Sep 2010, 18:26

can i suggest getting an impersonator to do murray walker.....

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 15 Sep 2010, 18:33

BigG80 wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Martin Brundle could just as well fit the "murray walker" role now, and maybe get another former, more recent driver to be the "expert". Anyway, as long as Martin keeps his gridwalks, I'm happy!
And I would've liked to tested Damon Hill, I've always found him well spoken.(or what it is called in English:P)

When Damon filled in for Brundle back in Hungary 08 I think it was, his one outstanding contribution was suggesting that one of the drivers should be made to sit on the naughty step for some misdemeanour. I forget which driver but it was very funny.

DC I'm not so sure on. His Red Bull bias is often over the top and when they showed some onboard footage of Paul Di Resta in China while interviewing Di Resta, he kept saying "you missed the apex there, was that on purpose or do you just not know the track?" It was overly critical in my opinion!

Hungary 08 - need to DL NOW! Any tip?

Regarding Eddie Irvine... he seems quite finished with F1!

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 15 Sep 2010, 18:35

Myrvold wrote:
BigG80 wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Martin Brundle could just as well fit the "murray walker" role now, and maybe get another former, more recent driver to be the "expert". Anyway, as long as Martin keeps his gridwalks, I'm happy!
And I would've liked to tested Damon Hill, I've always found him well spoken.(or what it is called in English:P)

When Damon filled in for Brundle back in Hungary 08 I think it was, his one outstanding contribution was suggesting that one of the drivers should be made to sit on the naughty step for some misdemeanour. I forget which driver but it was very funny.

DC I'm not so sure on. His Red Bull bias is often over the top and when they showed some onboard footage of Paul Di Resta in China while interviewing Di Resta, he kept saying "you missed the apex there, was that on purpose or do you just not know the track?" It was overly critical in my opinion!

Hungary 08 - need to DL NOW!

Regarding Eddie Irvine... he seems quite finished with F1!

He was there last weekend, hanging out with Ferrari!

JeanDenisAlcatraz · Post by **JeanDenisAlcatraz** » 15 Sep 2010, 19:08

Looking for an ex-racing driver? I hear Ben Collins is looking for work.

Some say he wrote most of the Murrayisms in advance...

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 15 Sep 2010, 20:25

What wonderful possible news.

What really grates with me is when he says something along the lines of "I was speaking to {relatively high up member of some team} last night and he was saying that {inane, uninteresting list of words that vaguely relate to whatever Brundle was just saying}, what do you think Martin?."

fjackdaw wrote:I also remember Legard describing Massa's near-fatal spring-related accident as "a bit of a knock on the chin". To be fair, he didn't know the severity of it yet, but on the downside, he didn't know the severity of it yet.

That was Jordan. Legard probably would have said it, but he was probably too busy barking at the screen.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 15 Sep 2010, 20:33

shinji wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:I also remember Legard describing Massa's near-fatal spring-related accident as "a bit of a knock on the chin". To be fair, he didn't know the severity of it yet, but on the downside, he didn't know the severity of it yet.

That was Jordan. Legard probably would have said it, but he was probably too busy barking at the screen.

Oh, it was, wasn't it. Well, they're both chumps!

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 15 Sep 2010, 20:40

coops wrote:As we're going for Brundle +1 Ex F1 Driver what about Eddie Irvine? He could be the new James Hunt.

He ticks the 'outspoken ex-driver' box.

When it comes to the 'charm and wit' box though.....

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 15 Sep 2010, 20:45

eytl wrote:I have a theory about what made Murray Walker so loved and both Allen and Legard both so loathed.

For all his reputation for being the "muddly talker", and for all the famous errors he made, Murray wasn't just a "play by play" commentator with Hunt, Palmer, Brundle etc. as the expert next to him. I've noticed that Murray's modus operandi was to describe something that's happening and then provide a lot of background details.

For example, he would describe a driver going through Pouhon, and then tell you that Pouhon was a corner taken in which gear, and at what speed at the apex, and then provide some further comments about the driver (e.g. where he started on the grid, how many points he's scored this year, other teams he's driven for, background before F1 etc.).

In other words, Walker's commentary was deceptively high in information. The other thing which he managed to maintain was an awe for the people he was commentating on as if he looked up to them as heroes, even if they were young enough to be his grandkids. In other words, he managed to sound like an enthusiast, and a humble one at that - which works well with the sidekick because he gives them room to provide the analysis. And that also means that when Walker's biases came out, it could be excused - because, let's face it, who is completely objective?

Alternatively, I've always wanted to give live commentary a go myself but, as is plainly evident from the podcasts, it would be a complete disaster!

This is a brilliant analysis. I've been watching some old races recently and Portugal 85 is a great example of Murray's approach. Admittedly it was a good race anyway, but when there wasn't much happening on track Murray continued reeling off interesting stuff, and his admiration of Senna even at this early stage of his career was obvious and really quite charming.

I can say that I have some idea of how difficult commentating is. OK, it's a different sport, but I had a go at a lower league football game many years ago when I worked for a radio station and made a right hash of it - it was much much tougher than I thought it would be, and I wasn't even doing the full 90 minutes!!

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 15 Sep 2010, 23:20

WHO SAID ME?!?!?!

TIM!!!

Dont get my hopes up

.

TimmyB · Post by **TimmyB** » 16 Sep 2010, 07:08

^^ I just want to hear you do a 'Bahrain start in your mouth' during a Bahrain start.

Rumour has it that if there is a replacement then he will be an Australian who isn't Charlie Cox...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 16 Sep 2010, 07:34

I think the entire Channel 7 V8 Supercar commentry team would do a good job but that's just my opinion.

Now if only ONE bothers to replace the god-awful commentators we have for the pre-race show amongst other things...

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 16 Sep 2010, 08:02

Of course I do not live in the UK, but from certain extracts from YouTube, I can truly say that Legard is just not suitable. I wouldn't say James Allen was terrible. He proved his worth as pitlane reporter, and he was quite good in my opinion. I would like to see Steve Slater of Star Sports take the role however. I was in Malaysia for the race weekend (but didn't go to Sepang itself sadly), but the hotel TV saved me. To me, Slater is the Murray Walker of the region, maybe not as great, but pretty close. I may get bashed for saying that, but really, BBC should give him a try. It would piss some Asian F1 fans a bit, but bah.

Maybe you also have him in the UK, so sorry if I made a mistake.

I would have a go at it, but the BBC would have to provide me a voice manipulator. My voice is terribly squeaky.

A bit of Steve

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 16 Sep 2010, 08:30

An Aussie who isnt Charlie Cox...

...Leigh Diffey?

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 16 Sep 2010, 10:00

ADx_Wales wrote:An Aussie who isnt Charlie Cox...

...Leigh Diffey?

Dame Edna?

... Steve Irwin would have been great too!

Seriously though, Charlie Cox always strikes me as being rather 'in at the deep end' with his Moto GP commentary, I'm not convinced how much in-depth
knowledge of the sport he brings. When he was commentating on the BTCC as least you knew he was aware of who most the guys were and their history
in the sport, even if he did only know them from being overtaken / lapped by them. Still, you can forgive him for his slightly scattergun style - after that
massive crash at Thruxton (footage of which doesn't seem to be readily available on the 'net) his brain's probably still spinning!

Unless the plan is just to use Cox for innane banter / catchphrases (how many times do we need to hear 'over the stripe' when someone finishes a lap)
and Brundle to do the sensible stuff I can't see it being an improvement. Having said all that, for the last couple of years most MotoGP races have been
distinctly lacking in action / interest and he has kept them just about watchable, so maybe there is some hope there ...

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 16 Sep 2010, 10:49

Myrvold wrote:
BigG80 wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Martin Brundle could just as well fit the "murray walker" role now, and maybe get another former, more recent driver to be the "expert". Anyway, as long as Martin keeps his gridwalks, I'm happy!
And I would've liked to tested Damon Hill, I've always found him well spoken.(or what it is called in English:P)

When Damon filled in for Brundle back in Hungary 08 I think it was, his one outstanding contribution was suggesting that one of the drivers should be made to sit on the naughty step for some misdemeanour. I forget which driver but it was very funny.

DC I'm not so sure on. His Red Bull bias is often over the top and when they showed some onboard footage of Paul Di Resta in China while interviewing Di Resta, he kept saying "you missed the apex there, was that on purpose or do you just not know the track?" It was overly critical in my opinion!

Hungary 08 - need to DL NOW! Any tip?

Regarding Eddie Irvine... he seems quite finished with F1!

No idea where to get a download I'm afraid. I'll see if my Dad's finished burning it onto DVD if you like? He's done all of last year and he may have done 08 now.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 16 Sep 2010, 11:01

BigG80 wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Hungary 08 - need to DL NOW! Any tip?

No idea where to get a download I'm afraid. I'll see if my Dad's finished burning it onto DVD if you like? He's done all of last year and he may have done 08 now.

Take that to PM, guys. Please refrain from discussing that on the forum.

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 16 Sep 2010, 11:07

CarlosFerreira wrote:Take that to PM, guys. Please refrain from discussing that on the forum.

Apologies Carlos.

Sauber010 · Post by **Sauber010** » 16 Sep 2010, 11:41

ADx_Wales wrote:An Aussie who isnt Charlie Cox...

...Leigh Diffey?

Please, YES! I've always found that Leigh Diffey is magic in the commentary box, whether its commentating on LMES, V8Supercars, Le Mans 24, he always seems to know who and what he is talking about. He's background information makes great listening.

......plus, Charlie Cox has already ruined Top Gear Australia. PLEASE don't give him the chance to wreak something else.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 25 Sep 2010, 14:18

Well, this didn't happen.