2010 New teams appraisal
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2010 New teams appraisal
So Lotus Racing have just picked up their best finish- a 12th and 13th double finish that's seen them secure (unless Virgin and HRT manage to score some points presumably) 10th place in the Constructor's and the extra money that provides. They've ditched Cosworth and are looking to get a Renault deal for next season. Trulli and Kovaleinen have both looked like steady hands, doing exactly what has been asked of them. At the same time, there's an ongoing dispute about the Lotus branding that could see them change their name as early as next season, and the usual uncertainties over financing- though a lot of the sponsorship it must be said, looks secure.
They were probably praying for the Toro-Rosso's to have a coming together, but they had already inherited enough places, and that would've been an almost entirely luck-based result had they got a point. The main problem is the speed of the car. There's no guarantee that the Renault engine will give them what they're looking for next year, and a lot of their lack of speed has to do with the fairly rudimentary car design. It's a decent enough platform to work from when you consider the problems other teams of old have had.
So, ambitions next year....qualifying in Q2 on merit occasionally. Perhaps their first points?
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Next up, Virgin Racing. After an embarrassing start that showed up Nick Wirth's disciple like championing of CFD, and had people scurrying to think of amusing alternatives for what that acronym could stand for, they've slowly picked up some consistency (with the emphasis on slow). 5 retirements in the last 10 races is not bad, and it hasn't been the nightmare of reliability problems that some who doubted them were saying it would be. They've also proved that a team can be run on a vastly reduced budget- they just haven't proved it can do so and stay in touch with most of the field.
Glock just equalled Di Grassi's best finish for them in 14th place, but they've generally been out-paced by Lotus, give or take some examples where the car has held its own and looked decent. I can see Glock staying on but not Di Grassi. It's not always possible to judge ability as there are lots of external factors that cloud that, but I tend to think he's performed better than people give him credit for. It doesn't necessarily mean that he'll remain there, or even mean that he should retain his seat next year.
On an organisational level and moving forward (hate that phrase but it applies in this case), things have been pretty quiet, and perhaps Branson is realising things are going to take even slower than he originally thought on this level of investment. What I can't judge is whether it's just a bit of fun for him, in which case he might stay a while, or a serious investment, which given his track record, the Virgin brand tends to jump ship as soon as it starts flagging in a certain area.
Ambitions next year? Do we know? Has anything interesting been announced that would suggest they'll be able to close the gap and match Lotus' progress while doing so? Unless they make a significant improvement is there any point to them existing?
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Hispania Racing- An interesting one having a reasonably unwise attempt to enter Formula 1 be semi-aborted and almost fail completely at the final hurdle... be carried over the line anyway. An incredibly slow car that still looks like it's in testing now, a bad chassis that puts a black mark against Dallara (which is a shame, but they were already marked, let's face it) and an organisational restructuring that leaves Colin Kolles in charge.
Driver-wise, they've exposed Bruno Senna and Karun Chandhok to F1, and leaving everyone with the same impression who was better, something which was cemented when Klien returned in Singapore and schooled Senna (someone try Klien again please. Force India maybe?). They also decided they needed someone who knew a thing or two about finishing last- Sakhon Yamamoto. There's no real way of knowing whether any of these people will be featuring in the sport next year.
Next year I can find little to go on except some Kolles bluster and Chandhok's assertion that HRT are looking 'in good shape'. Here's my advice- give the team some identity and something that will attract a fanbase. The characterless livery and lack of cool sponsors doesn't help.
Ambitions for next year- To still exist in some form. To have sponsors. And in their wildest dreams, not be at the back, massively behind everyone else.
They were probably praying for the Toro-Rosso's to have a coming together, but they had already inherited enough places, and that would've been an almost entirely luck-based result had they got a point. The main problem is the speed of the car. There's no guarantee that the Renault engine will give them what they're looking for next year, and a lot of their lack of speed has to do with the fairly rudimentary car design. It's a decent enough platform to work from when you consider the problems other teams of old have had.
So, ambitions next year....qualifying in Q2 on merit occasionally. Perhaps their first points?
---
Next up, Virgin Racing. After an embarrassing start that showed up Nick Wirth's disciple like championing of CFD, and had people scurrying to think of amusing alternatives for what that acronym could stand for, they've slowly picked up some consistency (with the emphasis on slow). 5 retirements in the last 10 races is not bad, and it hasn't been the nightmare of reliability problems that some who doubted them were saying it would be. They've also proved that a team can be run on a vastly reduced budget- they just haven't proved it can do so and stay in touch with most of the field.
Glock just equalled Di Grassi's best finish for them in 14th place, but they've generally been out-paced by Lotus, give or take some examples where the car has held its own and looked decent. I can see Glock staying on but not Di Grassi. It's not always possible to judge ability as there are lots of external factors that cloud that, but I tend to think he's performed better than people give him credit for. It doesn't necessarily mean that he'll remain there, or even mean that he should retain his seat next year.
On an organisational level and moving forward (hate that phrase but it applies in this case), things have been pretty quiet, and perhaps Branson is realising things are going to take even slower than he originally thought on this level of investment. What I can't judge is whether it's just a bit of fun for him, in which case he might stay a while, or a serious investment, which given his track record, the Virgin brand tends to jump ship as soon as it starts flagging in a certain area.
Ambitions next year? Do we know? Has anything interesting been announced that would suggest they'll be able to close the gap and match Lotus' progress while doing so? Unless they make a significant improvement is there any point to them existing?
---
Hispania Racing- An interesting one having a reasonably unwise attempt to enter Formula 1 be semi-aborted and almost fail completely at the final hurdle... be carried over the line anyway. An incredibly slow car that still looks like it's in testing now, a bad chassis that puts a black mark against Dallara (which is a shame, but they were already marked, let's face it) and an organisational restructuring that leaves Colin Kolles in charge.
Driver-wise, they've exposed Bruno Senna and Karun Chandhok to F1, and leaving everyone with the same impression who was better, something which was cemented when Klien returned in Singapore and schooled Senna (someone try Klien again please. Force India maybe?). They also decided they needed someone who knew a thing or two about finishing last- Sakhon Yamamoto. There's no real way of knowing whether any of these people will be featuring in the sport next year.
Next year I can find little to go on except some Kolles bluster and Chandhok's assertion that HRT are looking 'in good shape'. Here's my advice- give the team some identity and something that will attract a fanbase. The characterless livery and lack of cool sponsors doesn't help.
Ambitions for next year- To still exist in some form. To have sponsors. And in their wildest dreams, not be at the back, massively behind everyone else.
- thehemogoblin
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Especially when talking about Lotus, but for all of the teams, I think you've overlooked the universal failure of everything Xtrac. There were failures everywhere. It should be really interesting to watch Lotus next year, with a real gearbox and linkages.
- TomWazzleshaw
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Dear Lotus.
Please give Heikki a good car next year
Sincerely,
Wizzie.
Please give Heikki a good car next year
Sincerely,
Wizzie.
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Yeah, fair enough, I completely forgot about Xtrac.
Amazing really that Heikki's reptuation is almost entirely restored just by wheeling a slow car around for a year. He was promoted above his real ability at McLaren I suppose.
Amazing really that Heikki's reptuation is almost entirely restored just by wheeling a slow car around for a year. He was promoted above his real ability at McLaren I suppose.
- DonTirri
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
jackanderton wrote:Yeah, fair enough, I completely forgot about Xtrac.
Amazing really that Heikki's reptuation is almost entirely restored just by wheeling a slow car around for a year. He was promoted above his real ability at McLaren I suppose.
No. The Mclaren years made him look worse than he is for two reasons.
a) He was being compared to LEWIS bathplug HAMILTON
and
b) The team was favoring said LEWIS bathplug HAMILTON in everything.
I got Pointed Opinions and I ain't afraid to use em!
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BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
F1rejects no.1Räikkönen and Vettel fan.
BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
DonTirri wrote:jackanderton wrote:b) The team was favoring said LEWIS bathplug HAMILTON in everything.
How does that explain Button's proximity to Hamilton? It's down to ability, fair and square. Hamilton has found his place and so has Kov.
"will you stop him playing tennis then?", referring to Montoya's famous shoulder injury, to which Whitmarsh replied "well, it's very difficult to play tennis on a motorbike"
Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
noisebox wrote:DonTirri wrote:jackanderton wrote:b) The team was favoring said LEWIS bathplug HAMILTON in everything.
How does that explain Button's proximity to Hamilton? It's down to ability, fair and square. Hamilton has found his place and so has Kov.
That is a somewhat unfair conparision. Kovi was a young guy wanlking into a British team with a clear British #1 driver...
Button is british, very experienced & the current world champion walking into the team.
Plus Ron Dennis has (pretty much) gone now.
If you put Kovi & Button in equal cars with equal support I would expect it to be close.
Sakon Yamamoto - Not bad for a third driver
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Kovalainen didn't even do a very good support role. If the point was for him to be Hamilton's batman he didn't even do that. He was given all opportunity to score big points in the final races of the season to save his place and he fluffed his chance.
The stats don't lie- 2 seasons, 1 win, 3 podiums. In 2009 he came 12th in the WDC. If you follow the logic the people making excuses for him above, surely you'd think he would've improved in his 2nd season.
By any standard you measure it at, he didn't do a very good job. I don't wish to be sensationalist about it (a lot of F1 appraisal gets divided into Great/Steady/Rubbish), but he did either underachieve or simply wasn't up to it. I believe McLaren have been capable and have provided two equal cars for many years. These excuses are just the usual people seeking to downplay Hamilton's achievements in any way possible.
I've got nothing personal against Kovalainen who is a nice guy and deserves a Lotus car that's going to be mixing it with the proper midfield next year.
The stats don't lie- 2 seasons, 1 win, 3 podiums. In 2009 he came 12th in the WDC. If you follow the logic the people making excuses for him above, surely you'd think he would've improved in his 2nd season.
By any standard you measure it at, he didn't do a very good job. I don't wish to be sensationalist about it (a lot of F1 appraisal gets divided into Great/Steady/Rubbish), but he did either underachieve or simply wasn't up to it. I believe McLaren have been capable and have provided two equal cars for many years. These excuses are just the usual people seeking to downplay Hamilton's achievements in any way possible.
I've got nothing personal against Kovalainen who is a nice guy and deserves a Lotus car that's going to be mixing it with the proper midfield next year.
- CarlosFerreira
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
But back on the new teams issue...
... I hope Virgin gets a second change. You will notice from me saying this that I think they might not get one. The tide has turned against them - they were the former FIA's leadership protégés, in a way, and have lost that. But I liked the way they turned around after a shocker of a start, produced the limo version of the car and set about trying to take the fight to Lotus. That was good. I enjoyed that.
As for Lotus, watch out Toro Rosso and Force India is my message. With regards to HRT? Go home, Colin Kolles!
... I hope Virgin gets a second change. You will notice from me saying this that I think they might not get one. The tide has turned against them - they were the former FIA's leadership protégés, in a way, and have lost that. But I liked the way they turned around after a shocker of a start, produced the limo version of the car and set about trying to take the fight to Lotus. That was good. I enjoyed that.
As for Lotus, watch out Toro Rosso and Force India is my message. With regards to HRT? Go home, Colin Kolles!
Stay home, Colin Kolles!
Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
I sincerely doubt that anyone other than Colin Kolles could have pulled off the minor miracle of getting HRT on the track and staying there this far into the season. The man is a sneaky bathplug (thank you DonTirri!), but he took a couple of unfinished chassis and an incomplete and near-skint team to (hopefully) an entire Formula 1 season, on very little money. Considering the lack of testing and development on the cars, I don't think HRT has done that badly. Most of the silly idiotic decisions and occurrences, like not having Monza-specification wings and the driver changes are basically down to lack of money.
I think Virgin hasn't done that badly either. The team's business model was built around the budget cap, so they've also been limited in development potential. Lotus has significantly more money than Virgin and hasn't done that much better than they have.
I think Virgin hasn't done that badly either. The team's business model was built around the budget cap, so they've also been limited in development potential. Lotus has significantly more money than Virgin and hasn't done that much better than they have.
Following Formula 1 since 1984.
Avid collector of Formula 1 season guides and reviews.
Collector of reject merchandise and 1/43rd scale reject model cars.
Avid collector of Formula 1 season guides and reviews.
Collector of reject merchandise and 1/43rd scale reject model cars.
Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
I thought Heikki was doing alright against Lewis in the early stages of 2009 - but McLaren weren't winning so no-one noticed.
Lotus seem to be going all out for 2011 - they'll have the Red Bull Technologies gearbox mated to the Renault engine, so they should be able to produce a slippery back end to the car... will be interesting to see where they end up. Heikki and Jarno have done a decent job too.
I thought Sir Richard's response to finding out his car didn't have a big enough fuel tank was a classic. Wirth seemed to be a bit to bullish about his CFD design, but they have held their own with Lotus at least. Glock's been great, but at times i have trouble remembering who his teammate is.
The less said about Hispania the better... drab management where some flamboyance and charisma might have been a help, failing to make more money out of having a Senna and an Indian in the car, and tarnishing both their reps with that travesty of a machine (I don't think we can read too much into either's performance because we saw them parked up on the shoulder rather than crossing the finish line). Christian Klien - who was showing promise against DC at RBR before they shafted him for Liuzzi - aside, I think both Senna and Chandhok deserve another shot in something resembling a decent car. Plus I think we've seen enough Yamamoto for the time being.
Lotus seem to be going all out for 2011 - they'll have the Red Bull Technologies gearbox mated to the Renault engine, so they should be able to produce a slippery back end to the car... will be interesting to see where they end up. Heikki and Jarno have done a decent job too.
I thought Sir Richard's response to finding out his car didn't have a big enough fuel tank was a classic. Wirth seemed to be a bit to bullish about his CFD design, but they have held their own with Lotus at least. Glock's been great, but at times i have trouble remembering who his teammate is.
The less said about Hispania the better... drab management where some flamboyance and charisma might have been a help, failing to make more money out of having a Senna and an Indian in the car, and tarnishing both their reps with that travesty of a machine (I don't think we can read too much into either's performance because we saw them parked up on the shoulder rather than crossing the finish line). Christian Klien - who was showing promise against DC at RBR before they shafted him for Liuzzi - aside, I think both Senna and Chandhok deserve another shot in something resembling a decent car. Plus I think we've seen enough Yamamoto for the time being.
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
bighaydo wrote:I thought Heikki was doing alright against Lewis in the early stages of 2009
That's because the car was crap then.
I like the way Snrub thinks!
Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
So when the team started to get useful upgrades, they fitted them to Hamilton first, and then he drove like **** ? Or is Kovalainen a very good driver in poorer cars, or what are you trying to say?
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Myrvold wrote:So when the team started to get useful upgrades, they fitted them to Hamilton first, and then he drove like **** ? Or is Kovalainen a very good driver in poorer cars, or what are you trying to say?
I thought we had already proven several times that Kovaleinen suffers from Fisichellaitis. Great in midfield and backmarker teams, not so great as a frontrunner.
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Oh, typical me... I refuse to belive that Fisichella and Kovalainen is a "midfielder" not a WDC-type
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Faustus wrote: The man is a sneaky bathplug (thank you DonTirri!)
Huh? If you mean the bathplug, then no need to thank me. It's the boards auto-censor of swearing. That Lewis bathplug Hamilton shoulda read Lewis Fking Hamilton.
Censoring swearing is just plain stupid though.
I got Pointed Opinions and I ain't afraid to use em!
F1rejects no.1Räikkönen and Vettel fan.
BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
F1rejects no.1Räikkönen and Vettel fan.
BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
- TomWazzleshaw
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
I think the auto-censor is starting to infect me... I'm saying bathplug instead of that four letter word now on a semi-constant basis in real life
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
- DonTirri
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Wizzie wrote:I think the auto-censor is starting to infect me... I'm saying bathplug instead of that four letter word now on a semi-constant basis in real life
Well I've used Frakking and Frak semi-consistently for years now. Thank you Battlestar Galatica. Also i am in a forum that censors fcking with Loving and Fck with gently caress. THAT is getting to me.
I got Pointed Opinions and I ain't afraid to use em!
F1rejects no.1Räikkönen and Vettel fan.
BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
F1rejects no.1Räikkönen and Vettel fan.
BTW, thats Räikkönen with two K's and two N's. Not Raikonnen (Raikkonen is fine if you have no umlauts though)
- thehemogoblin
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Wizzie wrote:I think the auto-censor is starting to infect me... I'm saying bathplug instead of that four letter word now on a semi-constant basis in real life
We need bathplug bling now.
Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
Wizzie wrote:I think the auto-censor is starting to infect me... I'm saying bathplug instead of that four letter word now on a semi-constant basis in real life
Me too!
Following Formula 1 since 1984.
Avid collector of Formula 1 season guides and reviews.
Collector of reject merchandise and 1/43rd scale reject model cars.
Avid collector of Formula 1 season guides and reviews.
Collector of reject merchandise and 1/43rd scale reject model cars.
Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
DonTirri wrote:Wizzie wrote:I think the auto-censor is starting to infect me... I'm saying bathplug instead of that four letter word now on a semi-constant basis in real life
Well I've used Frakking and Frak semi-consistently for years now. Thank you Battlestar Galatica. Also i am in a forum that censors fcking with Loving and Fck with gently caress. THAT is getting to me.
I have some Southern Baptist friends whose TV mutes the word 'sex' and replaces it with a subtitle saying 'hugs'. It's hilarious. It's makes sense when someone says, "Hey, let's me and you have [HUGS]", but less sense when it's, "Have you found out what [HUGS] your baby is yet?"
- CarlosFerreira
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Re: 2010 New teams appraisal
DonTirri wrote:i am in a forum that censors fcking with Loving and Fck with gently caress. THAT is getting to me.
Gently caress. Yeah, I like that. Wonder if Jamie would mind changing the censorship parameters.
Stay home, Colin Kolles!