New Team Developments

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 29 Oct 2010, 10:45

I thought it would be wise to keep track of the developments of the new teams, or prospective teams. So here, we post all sorts of news/rumours/comments about anything relevant.

It looks like Colin Kolles is coming to his senses, a bit too late. Klien at Interlagos?
Another article concerning CK.
HRT buys Toyota? Well, hurrah!
Bruno might do an Ayrton
As Pedro think HRT is awesome.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Oct 2010, 10:54

Colin Kolles, it's too late. Go home.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 29 Oct 2010, 10:56

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Bruno might do an Ayrton

I for one will be happy if that does happen

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Oct 2010, 11:00

Wizzie wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Bruno might do an Ayrton

I for one will be happy if that does happen

Me too. But then, he needs to finish as close as he can to his team mate, which probably would be Kovalainen, the fireman.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 29 Oct 2010, 13:15

Take the huge debts you've amassed and you can't pay by buying Toyota home with you, Colin Kolles.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 29 Oct 2010, 14:40

What developments?

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 29 Oct 2010, 15:03

Maybe it's Developments like Brabham Motor Racing Developments. Ie- build successively worse cars, run out of money and then go out of business. Those sort of developments.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 29 Oct 2010, 15:39

jackanderton wrote:Maybe it's Developments like Brabham Motor Racing Developments. Ie- build successively worse cars, run out of money and then go out of business. Those sort of developments.

How much worse can the cars get, Fred Flintstone consistently outqualifies Senna and Yamamoto in his car.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 29 Oct 2010, 16:02

jackanderton wrote:Maybe it's Developments like Brabham Motor Racing Developments. Ie- build successively worse cars, run out of money and then go out of business. Those sort of developments.

I have a new quote for my sig!

It's certainly more likely than, you know, actual car developments, at any rate.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 31 Oct 2010, 07:46

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26102010/ ... skadi.html

Well, Epsilon are not going to give up, but what's interesting is that there's a hint they might be on the grid after a takeover of an existing team. HRT is too obvious an option, despite being snubbed at earlier on, but there's always Toro Rosso.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/76352/2 ... erland.htm

Meanwhile, Virgin have some watches!

*Thread renamed

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 31 Oct 2010, 07:58

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26102010/23/f1-goal-epsilon-euskadi.html

Well, Epsilon are not going to give up, but what's interesting is that there's a hint they might be on the grid after a takeover of an existing team. HRT is too obvious an option, despite being snubbed at earlier on, but there's always Toro Rosso.

Epsilon Toro Rosso? ETR? (Which funnily is the Hungarian shorter name of a university exam/grade online system...)
I think EE should buy a SHARE in the team, so Red Bull and EE would both be having a fair stake in the team.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 02 Nov 2010, 10:10

HRT to get Williams transmission/gearbox in 2011.

If HRT have any money Bready Branson and co are in a whole world of trouble.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 02 Nov 2010, 10:54

Wizzie wrote:HRT to get Williams transmission/gearbox in 2011.

If HRT have any money Bready Branson and co are in a whole world of trouble.

Okay, HRT are confusing me to no end. Chandhok is kicked out apparently because Sakon has more money, they are apparently running late on engine payments, yet suddenly, there are rumours they've bought Toyota's F1 team, and now this? Wow...

And I'm actually happy this is happening, as long as Klien gets a seat.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 02 Nov 2010, 10:58

Okay, there's quite a few articles about Senna and Lotus.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/01112010/ ... -2011.html
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101101/F1/101109988
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3033&FS=F1
http://www.planet-f1.com/news/18227/648 ... -at-Lotus-

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 02 Nov 2010, 11:10

If Senna goed to Lotus i will burn their shirt i bought last week !

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 02 Nov 2010, 11:11

f1-gast wrote:If Senna goed to Lotus i will burn their shirt i bought last week !

What's wrong with Bruno?

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 02 Nov 2010, 11:56

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
f1-gast wrote:If Senna goed to Lotus i will burn their shirt i bought last week !

What's wrong with Bruno?

In my opinion he is only driving F1 Because of his name and because of the money heb brings not because of his great tallent.
The positive thing of bruno is is that he isn't a Selfish Smug person as his Uncle was.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 02 Nov 2010, 12:41

f1-gast wrote:If Senna goed to Lotus i will burn their shirt i bought last week !

Just make sure you are still wearing it...

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 02 Nov 2010, 12:58

f1-gast wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
f1-gast wrote:If Senna goed to Lotus i will burn their shirt i bought last week !

What's wrong with Bruno?

In my opinion he is only driving F1 Because of his name and because of the money heb brings not because of his great tallent.
The positive thing of bruno is is that he isn't a Selfish Smug person as his Uncle was.

I kind of agree with this. I followed his 2008 GP2 season when he had a title bid and while he was mighty around Monaco in the wet, as befits his name, he was bewilderingly rubbish at other times in the season.

I was left feeling that he is pretty good but not quite good enough. And I don't feel like he made sure he had enough seat time last year to make the step up. Though of course that is partly because he thought he was going to Honda/Brawn and it didn't happen.

watka · Post by **watka** » 02 Nov 2010, 18:52

Wizzie wrote:HRT to get Williams transmission/gearbox in 2011.

If HRT have any money Bready Branson and co are in a whole world of trouble.

This is the first time I've been even half-convinced that HRT will be around next season.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 02 Nov 2010, 18:59

watka wrote:
Wizzie wrote:HRT to get Williams transmission/gearbox in 2011.

If HRT have any money Bready Branson and co are in a whole world of trouble.

This is the first time I've been even half-convinced that HRT will be around next season.

You just need to have faith, comrade.

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 02 Nov 2010, 21:16

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Wizzie wrote:HRT to get Williams transmission/gearbox in 2011.

If HRT have any money Bready Branson and co are in a whole world of trouble.

Okay, HRT are confusing me to no end. Chandhok is kicked out apparently because Sakon has more money, they are apparently running late on engine payments, yet suddenly, there are rumours they've bought Toyota's F1 team, and now this? Wow...

And I'm actually happy this is happening, as long as Klien gets a seat.

Seconded

Post by **mario** » 02 Nov 2010, 21:56

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
Wizzie wrote:HRT to get Williams transmission/gearbox in 2011.

If HRT have any money Bready Branson and co are in a whole world of trouble.

Okay, HRT are confusing me to no end. Chandhok is kicked out apparently because Sakon has more money, they are apparently running late on engine payments, yet suddenly, there are rumours they've bought Toyota's F1 team, and now this? Wow...

And I'm actually happy this is happening, as long as Klien gets a seat.

dr-baker posted an article elsewhere that showed that HRT had paid Cosworth off for this years engine supplies at Monza, although their finances are still in a fairly sorry state it seems. A change in transmission and gearbox for next year would be a logical step, since the current one is pretty useless, and at the very least a change in supplier would bring them a welcome increase in reliability.

However, there is a big difference between just getting a gearbox, and getting an entire car - there is, quite literally, an order of magnitude between the two (as there is a proposal for transmissions to be cost capped, at something in the order of €1-2 million, and getting the intellectual property rights, equipment and staff from Toyota is going to cost a fair bit more). And even if they do get the TF110, it will be quite a job to reconfigure it to 2011 standards, as the rear of the car will require a substantial redesign around a simplified diffuser (no DDD), new engine cooling requirements and a larger fuel tank.

The TF110, it seems, was designed around a 170 litre tank (according to Racecar Engineering), or about 130kg of fuel - and the BBC indicated that most of the current teams started off with tanks closer to 200 litres, or about 155 kg of fuel (although they are now probably running with about 135-140 kg at most races and getting their drivers to save fuel at the end). Even allowing for the standardisation of engine configurations, it'll still be tricky (Brawn, for example, had problems with the Mercedes engine due to the position of the oil tank).

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 03 Nov 2010, 23:42

http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2010/ ... -hispania/

I have to say, damnit. I don't want PDLR at HRT. For the simple reason: He's aging, and so like the article said, it'll probably be his last outing as at the most, race driver. PLEASE, make CK driver 1.

In other news:

http://www.forumula1.net/2010/f1/f1-new ... nger-2011/
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3208&FS=F1
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3185&FS=F1

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 04 Nov 2010, 01:40

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2010/11/pedro-de-la-rosa-hispania/

I have to say, damnit. I don't want PDLR at HRT. For the simple reason: He's aging, and so like the article said, it'll probably be his last outing as at the most, race driver. PLEASE, make CK driver 1.

In other news:

http://www.forumula1.net/2010/f1/f1-new ... nger-2011/
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3208&FS=F1
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3185&FS=F1

It´s somehow logical PDLR goes to Hispania next year. The team owners think a Spanish driver in a Spanish team will help get Spanish sponsors

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 04 Nov 2010, 02:39

And reports say that PDLR himself have gotten three more sponsors than this year.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 04 Nov 2010, 02:41

Aerond wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2010/11/pedro-de-la-rosa-hispania/

I have to say, damnit. I don't want PDLR at HRT. For the simple reason: He's aging, and so like the article said, it'll probably be his last outing as at the most, race driver. PLEASE, make CK driver 1.

In other news:

http://www.forumula1.net/2010/f1/f1-new ... nger-2011/
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3208&FS=F1
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3185&FS=F1

It´s somehow logical PDLR goes to Hispania next year. The team owners think a Spanish driver in a Spanish team will help get Spanish sponsors

I think there's a pretty good reason why DLR didn't join HRT (then known as Campos) this year... he probably knew they would suck big time...

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 04 Nov 2010, 02:55

JeremyMcClean wrote:
Aerond wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2010/11/pedro-de-la-rosa-hispania/

I have to say, damnit. I don't want PDLR at HRT. For the simple reason: He's aging, and so like the article said, it'll probably be his last outing as at the most, race driver. PLEASE, make CK driver 1.

In other news:

http://www.forumula1.net/2010/f1/f1-new ... nger-2011/
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3208&FS=F1
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 3185&FS=F1

It´s somehow logical PDLR goes to Hispania next year. The team owners think a Spanish driver in a Spanish team will help get Spanish sponsors

I think there's a pretty good reason why DLR didn't join HRT (then known as Campos) this year... he probably knew they would suck big time...

But what would make him think HRT would be any better next year? Yes, they have Williams systems, but chassis-wise, their still in the blue. Even if they did get the Toyota, they would have to modify it quite alot, and on the way, might just destroy any sort of advantage the TF110 might have.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 04 Nov 2010, 14:28

JeremyMcClean wrote:I think there's a pretty good reason why DLR didn't join HRT (then known as Campos) this year... he probably knew they would suck big time...

Nah because he had the offer from Sauber on the table which would have been a much more attractive prospect. Now he's lost that seat, and places elsewhere are running out fast, HRT could be his only realistic chance of staying in F1 for 2011, and if he can drum up some support and bring money to the table, he'll be much more likely of getting the drive.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Nov 2010, 17:35

mario wrote:dr-baker posted an article elsewhere that showed that HRT had paid Cosworth off for this years engine supplies at Monza, although their finances are still in a fairly sorry state it seems. A change in transmission and gearbox for next year would be a logical step, since the current one is pretty useless, and at the very least a change in supplier would bring them a welcome increase in reliability.

For reference, it was an Autosport news article from around the time of Monza/mid-September.

watka · Post by **watka** » 04 Nov 2010, 19:58

AndreaModa wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:I think there's a pretty good reason why DLR didn't join HRT (then known as Campos) this year... he probably knew they would suck big time...

Nah because he had the offer from Sauber on the table which would have been a much more attractive prospect. Now he's lost that seat, and places elsewhere are running out fast, HRT could be his only realistic chance of staying in F1 for 2011, and if he can drum up some support and bring money to the table, he'll be much more likely of getting the drive.

Well if they want to actually develop the car in some way next season, PDLR is going to be your man to do it.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 05 Nov 2010, 16:44

Now you GenII Capital fans, what's all this talk http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 10519.html about your favourite team being re-branded Lotus at the behest of one Dany Bahar - and Bruno Senna moving into the 2nd car?

Does that mean Heikki Kovalainen and Jarno Trulli will drive for Tony Fernandez's Team Air Asia next year?

Renault turning into Lotus sure enough would look like Honda turning into Mercedes.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 Nov 2010, 19:09

Yannick wrote:Now you GenII Capital fans, what's all this talk http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 10519.html about your favourite team being re-branded Lotus at the behest of one Dany Bahar - and Bruno Senna moving into the 2nd car?

Does that mean Heikki Kovalainen and Jarno Trulli will drive for Tony Fernandez's Team Air Asia next year?

Renault turning into Lotus sure enough would look like Honda turning into Mercedes.

It's all beginning to unravel for the Lotus Racing team and Tony Fernandes isn't it? In my opinion he would have been better off sticking with the Lotus Racing moniker rather than going behind Proton's back and obtaining the Team Lotus name for 2011. So now the Lotus team next year will most likely be based in Enstone with Renault engines and have the majority of its shares held by a capital investment group. Incidentally Renault switching to Lotus isn't as far fetched as Honda going to Mercedes as Renault and Proton own bits of each other or have some sort of partnership, and of course Proton owns Lotus, so the two are linked in the real world. Try explaining all this to a random guy on the street though when he wonders why Lotus have completely changed drivers, technicians and engineers, sponsors, etc etc! :lol:

For more information, here's the story posted on the BBC website, including the announcement of the Renault engine deal for Fondmetal Team Malaysia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9162642.stm

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 05 Nov 2010, 20:49

I don't like this at all. With all the work Fernandes has done for the Lotus-name, and the contact with the Chapman-family... And how can Proton own a F1-team, they are loosing money every year, and it is limits for how long the government are pouring in money, I hope.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 06 Nov 2010, 05:40

Kolles says HRT set to reveal new backer

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 06 Nov 2010, 07:27

AndreaModa wrote: In my opinion he would have been better off sticking with the Lotus Racing moniker rather than going behind Proton's back and obtaining the Team Lotus name for 2011.

I really don't think that was ever an option, not If he wanted to retain any control of the team, anyway. Fernandes just got unlucky in that in the 12 months between getting the licence and now, Group have gone crazy and decided to bankrupt themsleves with a stupidly overambitious model line-up marketed via a stupidly overambitious motorsport program.
What really annoys me is that could very easily spell the beginning of the end for both teams. Fernandes Lotus seemed to be building up a good momentum and have been pretty succesful playing both the 'We're Lotus' and 'We're Malaysian' angles to pull in sponsors, but with that gone, it's going to be far harder to bring in the budget. Meanwhile, Group Lotus/Renault will draw away those sponsors at first, bleeding Team Air Asia dry, probably triggering the initally mooted move out to malaysia, (if they're not Lotus, what's the point of staying in norfolk), and their eventual collapse. Group Lotus will then have a couple of rough years in the sport while no-one is buying their STUPID new cars, run out of money and pull out as EVERY BLOODY MANUFACTURER ALWAYS DOES.
So 5 years down the line we'll have lost 2* teams as the result of this, rather than seen Fernandes Lotus slowly grow into being a solid fixture on the grid, maybe even start pushing on Jordan-style for the odd win.

I HOPE THEY'RE VERY HAPPY WITH THEMSELVES.

* okay, so 'Enstone F1 operation' will probably find a buyer and survive in some form, Dave Richards still has his eye on the place.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 06 Nov 2010, 09:10

Poor old Lotus, losing the name to the Enstone lot. Everyone around here will be gutted, especially where I work at Radio Norfolk - they loved having Lotus back to report on. '1Malaysia' won't be quite the same. The documentary we're doing at Christmas will probably have to have a bittersweet ending now, too... But that'll probably make it a better piece.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 06 Nov 2010, 09:54

Yannick wrote:Now you GenII Capital fans, what's all this talk http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 10519.html about your favourite team being re-branded Lotus at the behest of one Dany Bahar - and Bruno Senna moving into the 2nd car?

Does that mean Heikki Kovalainen and Jarno Trulli will drive for Tony Fernandez's Team Air Asia next year?

Renault turning into Lotus sure enough would look like Honda turning into Mercedes.

The thing is though, Renault (the manufacturer) are getting more and more interested in F1 again, what with Kubica's results, Petrov opening up the Russian market for them, and the general promise the team has shown. I don't think they want Lotus coming in and taking that away, so I'm not entirely sure this is going to go through. Unless, of course, I missed something in Google's translation of that article, or if Proton Group and Renault have some sort of link that I was unable to find on Wikipedia which would make this acceptable. I can see them buy up enough of Genii's shares so that they regain the majority share and lock Lotus out.

Plus, Honda turning into Mercedes was an odd set of coincidences. First Honda completely left F1, then Brawn decided to use Mercedes engines, then Mercedes, with that link, decided to use it to get in as a manufacturer. Renault hasn't completely left F1, and I don't think they plan to.

Post by **mario** » 06 Nov 2010, 11:22

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Kolles says HRT set to reveal new backer

Well, HRT have just announced a partnership with Juan Villalonga, a former CEO of Telefonica, according to Adam Cooper and Autosport http://adamcooperf1.com/ and http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87970
It looks like quite a coup, to be fair to HRT, and might explain why HRT have been looking more confident about the future. That said, we still need to see if they can secure a car for 2011 (the long on rumours but short on announcements Toyota deal).

And Jordan192, I have to agree that Bahar's plans for Group Lotus look wildly optimistic to say the least. Group Lotus don't have the image - and, far more importantly, the build quality - to compete in the £100,000 price mark they are looking at. Whilst in principal I appreciate that Bahar is doing the right thing in looking to expand Group Lotus's line up, this is too fast, and too much, to be doing all at once, and is unlikely to end well. If, and it is a big if, Group Lotus were to buy out Renault's stake, having two Lotus teams would simply take sponsors off each other.
Moreover, Genii-Renault have been undergoing some major changes recently - particularly with Bob Bell planning on leaving the team at the end of the season (and he has been a solid stalwart of the team through the recent tough years). On top of that, we know that Genii-Renault have been spending quite heavily this year, and possibly running at a loss - so Group Lotus might be buying into the team at the wrong time...

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 06 Nov 2010, 12:14

This is wonderful news for the future of Hispania! All they need now, is John Barnard.

That statement would be somewhat sarcastic, as most of us know that all of his designs are bloody expensive, but I'm a longtime admirer of the man, and I long to see him back in Formula One. If only to increase the Minardi ties, Gustav Brunner anybody? He was sacked by Toyota some time back, wasn't he? Or Gabriele Tredozi? Alright, I'm going too far here, but I would love to see HRT fighting it out with some, if not all, the midfield teams in 2011. Once again, I'll make it clear that I want to see Klien back in the Hispania (it would have been Lotus, ahem, Team AirAsia, but that's looking improbable). I would also like to see Chandhok in the other car, but considering he probably doesn't have any more money, the more likely choice would be Pastor Maldonado with his 50 Million (was it?). Also, lets have that beautiful (I know most of you find it disgusting) M02 livery back.