2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by **mario** » 11 Nov 2010, 10:36

Now, I know that quite a few of the recent races have been rain affected, but, surely, most people would assume that a racetrack set in a desert environment wouldn't be hit by wet weather...

Evidently not, it seems - there have already been light showers in the region on Tuesday and Wednesday (and you know rain is rare when it is a major news item), and the long range weather forecast suggests that there is a possibility of rain on Saturday. At the very least, there is a strong likelihood of heavily overcast conditions, according to this report.
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 4114&FS=F1

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Nov 2010, 10:39

I really want to make fun of all the climate change scientists right now based on that but I can't think of anything funny.

I guess they should all go back to the drawing board and start again then :lol:

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 11 Nov 2010, 11:46

Wizzie wrote:I really want to make fun of all the climate change scientists right now based on that but I can't think of anything funny.

I guess they should all go back to the drawing board and start again then

As I said Wizzie, don't confuse The Climate and The Weather.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 11 Nov 2010, 13:26

Wizzie wrote:I really want to make fun of all the climate change scientists right now based on that but I can't think of anything funny.

I guess they should all go back to the drawing board and start again then

Climate change doesn't mean that everywhere will automatically become dryer and hotter - this is why it is no longer called global warming. Climate change means that climates change in different ways, for example warmer winters, colder summers, unusual rainfall in the desert, etc. Not saying that this particular rainfall is an example of climate change, but nor is it any kind of indicator that climate change might be false.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 11 Nov 2010, 14:41

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Wizzie wrote:I really want to make fun of all the climate change scientists right now based on that but I can't think of anything funny.

I guess they should all go back to the drawing board and start again then

As I said Wizzie, don't confuse The Climate and The Weather.

& as I said, it's called climate & change....

Post by **mario** » 11 Nov 2010, 15:22

Oh dear - what was supposed to be an innocuous comment about local weather patterns has turned into an unexpected discussion on climate change. Personally, whilst I feel that there is plenty to talk about, it is off topic. Such talk would probably be better off in CarlosFerreira's thread here, where he linked to his excellent article on climate change and the role of motorsport in changing current perceptions and promoting new technology viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3661

Back on topic, it has been announced that Emanuele Pirro (formerly of Benetton and Scuderia Italia) will be the drivers representative at Abu Dhabi - and before anybody asks, no, he is not a reject (albeit right on the cusp of being a reject, as he has just two points finishes to his name - one fifth for Benetton in 1989, and one sixth for Scuderia Italia in 1991). Confirmation here http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88142

Meanwhile, over at Red Bull, Vettel has dropped more hints that he may be willing to move over for Webber in Abu Dhabi if he was ahead of Webber, and Alonso was on track to take the title. His main target for the weekend, essentially, is to win, although he will take into account the relative position of Webber and Alonso on track before he decides what to do. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88135

razta · Post by **razta** » 11 Nov 2010, 16:51

check out the pics from today..
Luizzi getting a bollocking is my fav :lol
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3740

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 11 Nov 2010, 17:13

mario wrote:Oh dear - what was supposed to be an innocuous comment about local weather patterns has turned into an unexpected discussion on climate change. Personally, whilst I feel that there is plenty to talk about, it is off topic. Such talk would probably be better off in CarlosFerreira's thread here, where he linked to his excellent article on climate change and the role of motorsport in changing current perceptions and promoting new technology viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3661

This is Rejects. We talk about anything we want wherever we want.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 11 Nov 2010, 18:08

I can't believe there is rain forecast, has there been a race this year where rain hasn't been forecast?

I know it hasn't rained every time, but I swear I always read the "X Grand Prix Discussion Thread" on a Wednesday or Thursday and see mention of possible rain!

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 11 Nov 2010, 20:23

That reminds me of the good old Eddie Rabbit classic!

TimmyB · Post by **TimmyB** » 11 Nov 2010, 20:48

My stomach has been churning for a couple of days now and I've only just realised that it's probably because I'm nervous about this weekend.

I can only imagine how Mark and the other title contenders feels!

Post by **mario** » 11 Nov 2010, 22:21

eagleash wrote:
mario wrote:Oh dear - what was supposed to be an innocuous comment about local weather patterns has turned into an unexpected discussion on climate change. Personally, whilst I feel that there is plenty to talk about, it is off topic. Such talk would probably be better off in CarlosFerreira's thread here, where he linked to his excellent article on climate change and the role of motorsport in changing current perceptions and promoting new technology viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3661

This is Rejects. We talk about anything we want wherever we want.

You don't need to remind me about that :lol:

And IdeFan has a point - we have regularly had warning about wet weather throughout the latter part of the season, although more often then not, there has been wet weather at some point during the proceedings. Looking back, we had a damp qualifying session in Brazil (and a fully wet final practise session), a wet race in Korea, a rescheduled qualifying session in Japan and mixed conditions in Belgium in both qualifying and the race itself. That means that out of the last half dozen races, only Monza was completely dry (from first practise to the final lap of the race). In addition, we've often had rain overnight to clean the circuits (Singapore, for example, where a few drivers span out after hitting wet patches).

Slightly off topic, albeit connected, there is a slightly surprising announcement by Mclaren - Hamilton and Button are both being sent home after the race, and will not be present at the first Pirelli tyre tests out in Abu Dhabi, scheduled for next week. The reason for that, it seems, is because the first batch of Pirelli's are unlikely to be that similar to the finished product, so Mclaren have decided to call up Paffett and Oliver Turvey (who was scheduled for the young driver test program) instead. Interestingly, this goes against what Button wanted to do, as he wanted to have a crack at the new tyres - but Mclaren decided otherwise.

By contrast, most of the other teams will be using their regular drivers; Mercedes, Ferrari and Williams are splitting testing duties evenly (Rosberg, Felipe and Hulkenberg on Friday, Schumacher, Alonso and Barrichello on Saturday). Red Bull, meanwhile, will use Vettel for both days (although there are suggestions that is because Mark will not be in Abu Dhabi for other reasons), and Renault are doing the same, with Kubica getting both days. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88148

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 11 Nov 2010, 23:22

To be honest, if I were one of the championship contenders, I'd be more concerned about the Toro Rosso drivers trying to kill me.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 12 Nov 2010, 07:27

It is currently raining in Abu Dhabi! :lol:

5Live posted this picture on Twitter a few minutes ago

and now there's confirmation from them, Di Grassi and Lotus that is actually raining.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 12 Nov 2010, 08:48

redbulljack14 wrote:To be honest, if I were one of the championship contenders, I'd be more concerned about the Toro Rosso drivers trying to kill me.

There you go. If we get a Troll of the Year award, the 'Saurus' name is all over it.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 12 Nov 2010, 09:16

A nice possibility that I've just read...

Vettel leads Webber leads Alonso with a few laps to go. Then Massa spins and the SC is deployed :mrgreen:

Even if the SC leaves the track before the end of the race, Alonso would be right on the tail of Webber, so Vettel couldn't go and let his teammate pass...

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 12 Nov 2010, 09:48

Ferrim wrote:Even if the SC leaves the track before the end of the race, Alonso would be right on the tail of Webber, so Vettel couldn't go and let his teammate pass...

It would be difficult, but maybe Vettel could go off at the last corner, let Webber by and then cut ahead of Alonso.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 12 Nov 2010, 09:52

Track has been green all session, the cure for that, make it LESS GREEN, GET TF ON WITH IT!!!

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 12 Nov 2010, 10:21

Alonso's engine isn't going to explode. When's the last time that he had a mechanical-linked retirement?

I'm sure Red Bull's going to lose this title chance unless Hamilton becomes a joker in the pack.

Post by **mario** » 12 Nov 2010, 10:45

RAK wrote:Alonso's engine isn't going to explode. When's the last time that he had a mechanical-linked retirement?

I'm sure Red Bull's going to lose this title chance unless Hamilton becomes a joker in the pack.

That would be Malaysia, where his engine failed (but that was the old specification engine, with the unmodified pneumatic valves).

As for Hamilton, he might just prove to be Red Bull's saviour - at the moment, he seems fairly happy with his car, and looks like he might have decent pace (although the first practise session can be misleading, especially as Ferrari won't turn Fernando's engine up until the final session at the earliest). Mclaren, also, seem satisfied with the upgraded rear wing they brought for this race, even if it was nearly impounded by the customs authorities. Jonathan Neale had to go to the airport, with representatives from the circuit, and had a very lengthy discussion with the customs authorities before they finally let the mechanic carrying the new wing through border control.

He might just be able to get ahead of Alonso in qualifying - but, that could well be a double edged sword, as he would be going all out for the win, and if he qualifies well, he is likely to attack both Red Bull drivers in the opening lap.

And for those wondering how wet the track was earlier, here is a photo from somebody in the stands:

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 12 Nov 2010, 11:18

that's an interesting photo, you can clearly see the greasy soap covering that they were talking about in the FP1 commentary.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 12 Nov 2010, 12:46

RAK wrote:Alonso's engine isn't going to explode. When's the last time that he had a mechanical-linked retirement?

Do you remember how many races without an engine failure did Michael Schumacher spend before the 2006 Japanese GP?

BTW that failure always looked suspicious to me. I remember celebrating it with joy because it pretty much handled Alonso a title that seemed lost (back then, I already disliked his arrogance, but it wasn't until his antics at McLaren that I stopped being his fan; don't bother if he win, but I don't root for him like I did before). But I was eager to know what the hell had gone wrong with that engine, as it was so unusual to see a Ferrari blow up. What made it particularly suspicious is that it happened right after Schumacher's final stop. I can't stop but think that both things were related: Schumacher had a fine stop, he rejoined the track, went through the eses and before he got to the Degner curves BAAAAAAAANNNG, a tremendous cloud of white smoke came from the back of his car.

As far as I know, Ferrari never gave an explanation of how that crucial (sorry) failure happened. What I think is that something may have fallen at the exhausts during the pit stop, reaching the engine and killing it. I once read somewhere that a nut (from a wheel, for example) could produce this kind of result.

Maybe mario has some information on this?

Post by **mario** » 12 Nov 2010, 17:19

It is true that Schumacher's engine failure was very unexpected - that was the first engine failure he had suffered from in nearly six years (the last engine time he retired from a blown engine was in the 2000 French Grand Prix). That said, engine failures in the mid to late 2000's were rare events normally - Alonso, for example, blew his engine at Monza, and that was the first engine failure for him in two years.

So, against that sort of backdrop, I can see why there would be those who thought that there might have been some sort of foul play or careless mistake at the time. There were quite a few theories as to what might have happened, but never anything concrete (for example, no footage indicating that anything had been dropped down the exhaust, as you suggest, and a wheel nut would probably be too big to fit into an exhaust pipe).

At the time, though, we had just switched to the V8 formula, and the engine revs were not capped like they are now. The engineers were pushing as hard as possible to run the engines at higher revs for much longer - at the end of the season, Cosworth famously hit the 20,000 rpm target, and ran an engine at full bore for the entire race distance in Brazil.
Now, between the start of the season and Japan, the rate of development had been quite rapid, and competition had been especially fierce between Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault (but especially the first two). All sides were pushing to the limit, both in terms of peak revs and how long they could sustain them; as such, most of the teams would have been reving to something in the order of 19,500 rpm, perhaps more, or about 1,000 rpm higher then the start of the season. Whilst nominally a small increase in revs, that would have lead to a marked increase in piston speed, friction losses and so forth, and severely increased the stresses on the engine components. Also, at the time, Ferrari were behind Renault, and pushing very hard to close the gap, particularly engine development.

So, an alternative possibility is that Schumacher was leading because he was running at maximum revs, and putting an abnormally high strain on the engine in the process. This was, after all, in the period when engines had to last two race weekends, and the previous race had been China, where the back straight is very long, and you stay on full throttle for a long period of time. That, perhaps combined with a slight manufacturing error, might have been enough to cause an engine faliure.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 12 Nov 2010, 22:08

Missed P2, being in work, but saw the rerun on the BBC Red-Button, and possibly listening to next years commentary line up of:

Brundle
Chandhock
Croft
and Davidson

ALL in the same booth. Was rather entertaining.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 12 Nov 2010, 22:22

mario wrote:...at the end of the season, Cosworth famously hit the 20,000 rpm target, and ran an engine at full bore for the entire race distance in Brazil.

Umm... I think is the one time where you're incorrect... Williams did a total of 2 racing laps at Brazil and Toro Rosso had the rev-limited V10s in 2006.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 12 Nov 2010, 23:23

ADx_Wales wrote:Missed P2, being in work, but saw the rerun on the BBC Red-Button, and possibly listening to next years commentary line up of:

Brundle
Chandhock
Croft
and Davidson

ALL in the same booth. Was rather entertaining.

How cozy! ^_^ That really should be the commentary team for next year, well, hopefully minus Chandhok because he gets a drive. Wait, wouldn't it be epic if Davidson got a drive?

Archie2K · Post by **Archie2K** » 13 Nov 2010, 09:16

IdeFan wrote:I can't believe there is rain forecast, has there been a race this year where rain hasn't been forecast?

I know it hasn't rained every time, but I swear I always read the "X Grand Prix Discussion Thread" on a Wednesday or Thursday and see mention of possible rain!

There have (by my reading of BBC Weather) been only two grand prix this year where rain hasn't been predicted or come at some point in the race weekend. Name them.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 13 Nov 2010, 09:19

I'm guessing Bahrain and either Spain, Europe or Hungary.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 13 Nov 2010, 11:10

mario wrote:So, an alternative possibility is that Schumacher was leading because he was running at maximum revs, and putting an abnormally high strain on the engine in the process. This was, after all, in the period when engines had to last two race weekends, and the previous race had been China, where the back straight is very long, and you stay on full throttle for a long period of time. That, perhaps combined with a slight manufacturing error, might have been enough to cause an engine faliure.

Of course. What has always bothered me is the moment -right after the pitstop- rather than the failure.

But very interesting information from you, as always

Post by **mario** » 13 Nov 2010, 11:24

Wizzie wrote:
mario wrote:...at the end of the season, Cosworth famously hit the 20,000 rpm target, and ran an engine at full bore for the entire race distance in Brazil.

Umm... I think is the one time where you're incorrect... Williams did a total of 2 racing laps at Brazil and Toro Rosso had the rev-limited V10s in 2006.

You are right - it was during qualifying that Cosworth hit the 20,000 rpm limit, not the race.

Still, back to the race - it is interesting that Mclaren are looking pretty competitive. OK, Hamilton has not set a quick time in FP3, but on the other hand, his option tyre runs were longer then the Red Bull runs, and Button was on for a very quick lap (he was ahead of Vettel in the first two sectors) before overcooking it into Turn 18. Alonso, meanwhile, set his fastest lap fairly early in the session, and proceeded to sit it out for the final 10 minutes, so he probably still has a bit of pace up his sleeve.

Speaking of which, Alonso has made an interesting comment - for once, he is not objecting that Hamilton is doing well, because if Hamilton wins this race, the biggest beneficiary would be Alonso. Regardless of where Vettel and Webber finished behind Hamilton, Alonso would win the title as long as he was in 5th or better, making things easier for Alonso http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88208

Now, this qualifying session is going to be fascinating, because Hamilton's final grid slot, and potentially Button's too, could have a major impact on this race. If he is ahead of Vettel, Webber and Alonso, it favours the latter; what would make things much more complicated is if he splits the Red Bulls, or is between Alonso and the Red Bull duo.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 13 Nov 2010, 11:57

mario wrote:Now, this qualifying session is going to be fascinating, because Hamilton's final grid slot, and potentially Button's too, could have a major impact on this race. If he is ahead of Vettel, Webber and Alonso, it favours the latter; what would make things much more complicated is if he splits the Red Bulls, or is between Alonso and the Red Bull duo.

In fact, this qualifying session could be crucial.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 13 Nov 2010, 12:17

CarlosFerreira wrote:
mario wrote:Now, this qualifying session is going to be fascinating, because Hamilton's final grid slot, and potentially Button's too, could have a major impact on this race. If he is ahead of Vettel, Webber and Alonso, it favours the latter; what would make things much more complicated is if he splits the Red Bulls, or is between Alonso and the Red Bull duo.

In fact, this qualifying session could be crucial.

The Red Bulls will have to be on a charge to win this championship.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 13 Nov 2010, 12:54

Dang it! The wrong Aussie commentator is missing...

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:23

Not good for Buemi, he made Q3 at Abu Dhabi last season.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:23

And Buemi got pipped by Alguersuari. Toro Rosso is now clearly the bottom of the estabilished teams, with Force India only a bit ahead...

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:24

Senna ahead of Klien. :shock:

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:26

QuickYoda41 wrote:Senna ahead of Klien.

He did it! Was about time, right?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:38

Shizuka wrote:And Buemi got pipped by Alguersuari. Toro Rosso is now clearly the bottom of the estabilished teams, with Force India only a bit ahead...

With Sauber clearly ahead of Force India, with Williams miles ahead of them, and Renault ahead of Williams

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:40

Yeah.

And Hamilton and Massa came together. Lewis, if you drop out in Q2, hitting the cone and possibly getting a penalty, you won't be champion.
Okay, got into second place, but still...

KUBICA IS OUT IN Q2?

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 13 Nov 2010, 13:45

Renault and Williams both with one car in Q3 - with Barrichello (no Interlagos-wonder) and Petrov :!: