The long overdue publicocrapometer thread!

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 29 Dec 2010, 17:32

Starter for 10:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6622 ... oming-back

Translated means, I'm too old, too fat and too slow for F1 and I've found my level in NASCAR (physicaly and intellectually)

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 29 Dec 2010, 19:18

I didn't realise anyone wanted him back or had wondered if he would ever come back. Must be a slow news day.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 29 Dec 2010, 19:18

That's really not publicocrap, because JPM can hack it in NASCAR and is actually quite competitive, that being said, his teammate is basically the Robert Kubica of NASCAR and swept all of the series' biggest races whereas JPM dominated Watkins Glen and could have won Indy (again) but blew the race (again), which his teammate won. Not publicocrap because I think he's said what was blatantly obvious (again).

If you're with a NASCAR team that's on the rise, and have been there for four seasons, why the hell would you want to leave and go back to F1? American racing is (and I would say always has been) far more suited to drivers who have no qualms about aggressive passing and lots of overtaking, which is why people like Zanardi and the Andrettis became legendary in America. Since Montoya has always been a very aggressive racer, why would you want to leave the one place where that type of aggression is appreciated and is rewarded? That type of aggressiveness and willingness to overtake relentlessly is usually appreciated in F1 (see: Kobayashi, Mansell)...

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 29 Dec 2010, 20:28

Cynon wrote:That's really not publicocrap, because JPM can hack it in NASCAR

But he couldn't hack F1 anymore so it is publicocrap - up there with Ralf Schumacher's frequent ramblings about making a comeback.

Post by **mario** » 29 Dec 2010, 21:12

Cynon wrote:That's really not publicocrap, because JPM can hack it in NASCAR and is actually quite competitive, that being said, his teammate is basically the Robert Kubica of NASCAR and swept all of the series' biggest races whereas JPM dominated Watkins Glen and could have won Indy (again) but blew the race (again), which his teammate won. Not publicocrap because I think he's said what was blatantly obvious (again).

If you're with a NASCAR team that's on the rise, and have been there for four seasons, why the hell would you want to leave and go back to F1? American racing is (and I would say always has been) far more suited to drivers who have no qualms about aggressive passing and lots of overtaking, which is why people like Zanardi and the Andrettis became legendary in America. Since Montoya has always been a very aggressive racer, why would you want to leave the one place where that type of aggression is appreciated and is rewarded? That type of aggressiveness and willingness to overtake relentlessly is usually appreciated in F1 (see: Kobayashi, Mansell)...

Montoya's aggression on the track wasn't quite as problematic as his aggression off the track - after all, he started a punch up with Jacques Villeneuve during (I think) the drivers briefing for the 2001 Canadian Grand Prix, and had to be physically restrained, because of a row over alleged brake testing during the warm up session. [Basically, Villeneuve thought that the track was empty, and was testing his brakes, only to accidentally brake test Montoya. Montoya then retaliated, which angered Villeneuve, kicking off an argument between the two of them which continued into the drivers briefing. After exchanging insults, Montoya promptly got up and tried to exchange blows, although thankfully several other drivers stopped him before it got out of hand].

On a more serious note, though, he did suffer from the same problem which has affected most drivers from the US, which was that he was never quite at ease with the skittish nature of the grooved tyre Formula 1 cars. He could be quick when he had the car working as he wanted it, but more often then not, there would be some slight niggle with the car that hindered him - especially in the MP4-21, which was blisteringly quick, particularly in Kimi's hands, but not always easy to drive. The other problem was that he probably tried to rush back to the sport after his shoulder injury in 2005 - it took several races for him to get back up to speed, by which time he had fallen a long way behind his rivals.

watka · Post by **watka** » 29 Dec 2010, 22:28

Faustus wrote:I didn't realise anyone wanted him back or had wondered if he would ever come back. Must be a slow news day.

I want/wonder about this every day of my life. I would welcome JPM back any day of the week (preferably alongside Kobayashi at Sauber!)

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 29 Dec 2010, 23:19

noisebox wrote:
Cynon wrote:That's really not publicocrap, because JPM can hack it in NASCAR

But he couldn't hack F1 anymore so it is publicocrap - up there with Ralf Schumacher's frequent ramblings about making a comeback.

But he said he doesn't want to come back after being asked about coming back to F1. He's never mentioned a return to F1 unless he's been asked, and every time he's said he doesn't want to come back and that NASCAR is better.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 30 Dec 2010, 02:12

Four words for Montoya:

HIT THE ROAD JACK!

If he wants to rot meaninglessly in a league with boring racing, meaningless debris cautions, meaningless cautions nonetheless, cars that look like turds, a convoluted points system which is somewhat based on wins and ruins champions alike, and worst of all, 99% of the fans* are regular fanboys who care only for their driver and still support them even if they have the talents of Jean-Denis Deletraz!
(The only NASCAR fan I've heard of that isn't like that is Cynon)

*And I use that term somewhat figuratively

EDIT: If we're ever going to have a meter, then 1 should be not crap at all, and 10 being utter nonsense created from the planet Venus!

EDIT 2: Another fan I can mention is Hemogoblin...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 30 Dec 2010, 02:59

JeremyMcClean wrote:Four words for Montoya:

HIT THE ROAD JACK!

If he wants to rot meaninglessly in a league with boring racing, meaningless debris cautions, meaningless cautions nonetheless, cars that look like turds, a convoluted points system which is somewhat based on wins and ruins champions alike, and worst of all, 99% of the fans* are regular fanboys who care only for their driver and still support them even if they have the talents of Jean-Denis Deletraz!
(The only NASCAR fan I've heard of that isn't like that is Cynon)

*And I use that term somewhat figuratively

EDIT: If we're ever going to have a meter, then 1 should be not crap at all, and 10 being utter nonsense created from the planet Venus!

Dude. I'm the exact same way as Cynon. I don't even really have a driver I support in NASCAR.

And I don't believe you truly understand publicocrap. It's not regular crap. Publicocrap is crap that is public relations-speak. It's when teams/drivers/owners/sponsors say or do ridiculous things to drum up attention.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 30 Dec 2010, 05:01

I've been a long-time fan of Rusty Wallace and Robby Gordon in NASCAR. Rusty's retired and doing mediocre commentary and Robby Gordon is living the spirit of Arturo Merzario -- and I've been a big fan of his since his CART days too.

JeremyMcClean wrote: boring racing, meaningless debris cautions, meaningless cautions nonetheless, cars that look like turds, a convoluted points system which is somewhat based on wins and ruins champions alike, and worst of all, 99% of the fans* are regular fanboys who care only for their driver and still support them even if they have the talents of Jean-Denis Deletraz!

For the most part I'll agree with you on all those counts, because the past three seasons of NASCAR have been horrendous. This coming from a fan of the sport for almost 20 years! However, during this time period, the back of the grid in NASCAR is a really fun battle to watch. I'd like to point out that F1 fans (See: Tifosi) are just as fanatical as NASCAR fans are for their particular drivers/teams no matter what...

... but some NASCAR fans (I'm not one of these) like Dale Earnhardt, Jr. because he's a personality that people like. Most people like him because his name is Earnhardt. :roll:

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 30 Dec 2010, 08:38

Cynon wrote:I'd like to point out that F1 fans (See: Tifosi) are just as fanatical as NASCAR fans are for their particular drivers/teams no matter what...

Too right. Look at all the "fans" who suddenly turned up to Silverstone when Hamilton started in F1. Thing is though, you get this in a lot of sports, not just F1 or nascar

Back on topic, cant say I really care about JPM but I wouldnt say this was Publicocrap (though I still like the idea of a thread for it!)

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 30 Dec 2010, 14:16

JeremyMcClean wrote:support them even if they have the talents of Jean-Denis Deletraz!

In all fairness, we support drivers because they have talents of similar levels of Jean-Denis Deletraz

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 30 Dec 2010, 14:19

Pretty much Montoya was the reason I started liking F1 (just for his pass on Schuey at Brazil in 01!) hence my avatar...but I think if he did come back he would be mediocre at best and we wouldn't see much of the fighting spirit we all loved him for; thats what Kobayashi is for!

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 30 Dec 2010, 15:52

Meh, I thought someone here or anywhere else had finally invented a publicocrap measurer.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 30 Dec 2010, 16:32

Cynon wrote:I've been a long-time fan of Rusty Wallace and Robby Gordon in NASCAR. Rusty's retired and doing mediocre commentary and Robby Gordon is living the spirit of Arturo Merzario -- and I've been a big fan of his since his CART days too.

Why has Robby Gordon joined NASCAR in the 1st place? I mean he was a race winner in CART and given the new car formula for 2012, it's somewhat likely that he could do that again in IndyCar.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 30 Dec 2010, 16:50

He did have some good races in NASCAR, but it's sad to see him at the back of the field now, not even on road courses he is able to get higher.

While we are at the damn US-sports again, is it true that Bobby Labonte is driving a full season next year, and Terry 12 races?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 30 Dec 2010, 19:55

Yannick wrote:
Cynon wrote:I've been a long-time fan of Rusty Wallace and Robby Gordon in NASCAR. Rusty's retired and doing mediocre commentary and Robby Gordon is living the spirit of Arturo Merzario -- and I've been a big fan of his since his CART days too.

Why has Robby Gordon joined NASCAR in the 1st place? I mean he was a race winner in CART and given the new car formula for 2012, it's somewhat likely that he could do that again in IndyCar.

He joined it for a new challenge after the American open wheel split. Also, NASCAR was where the money was 10 years ago.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 31 Dec 2010, 04:01

Myrvold wrote:He did have some good races in NASCAR, but it's sad to see him at the back of the field now, not even on road courses he is able to get higher.

Robby Gordon has always wanted to be an owner-driver, because to him, the results are more rewarding if he does well than if he drives for someone else.

Myrvold wrote:While we are at the damn US-sports again, is it true that Bobby Labonte is driving a full season next year, and Terry 12 races?

Sadly, yes. Both Labontes were great drivers, but the keyword there is "were". Right now they're the NASCAR equivalent to David Coulthard as far as driving talent is concerned, old, not very quick, and for some reason not retiring! :[

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 31 Dec 2010, 08:24

thehemogoblin wrote:
Yannick wrote:
Cynon wrote:I've been a long-time fan of Rusty Wallace and Robby Gordon in NASCAR. Rusty's retired and doing mediocre commentary and Robby Gordon is living the spirit of Arturo Merzario -- and I've been a big fan of his since his CART days too.

Why has Robby Gordon joined NASCAR in the 1st place? I mean he was a race winner in CART and given the new car formula for 2012, it's somewhat likely that he could do that again in IndyCar.

He joined it for a new challenge after the American open wheel split. Also, NASCAR was where the money was 10 years ago.

It's easy to forget just how highly-rated Robby Gordon was in the early 90s. The man was employed by Ford as a factory driver and was successful in everything he drove up to IndyCars. He was widely recognised as the best up-and-coming young American driver at the time. He won 2 CART races in 1995 and really should have been champion, even if he was a bit wild behind the wheel. I admired him even more for starting, and driving for, his own CART team. A great driver who should have been more successful in IndyCars.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 31 Dec 2010, 10:06

Faustus wrote:It's easy to forget just how highly-rated Robby Gordon was in the early 90s. The man was employed by Ford as a factory driver and was successful in everything he drove up to IndyCars. He was widely recognised as the best up-and-coming young American driver at the time. He won 2 CART races in 1995 and really should have been champion, even if he was a bit wild behind the wheel. I admired him even more for starting, and driving for, his own CART team. A great driver who should have been more successful in IndyCars.

I recall he had a test with Williams during which he was very quick - I think he could've got a very good F1 drive.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 01 Jan 2011, 20:03

Just to bring it back on top (is that even allowed on F1Rejects?), here's a true publicocrap release: http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motorspor ... 37269.html

watka · Post by **watka** » 01 Jan 2011, 20:16

LionZoo wrote:Just to bring it back on top (is that even allowed on F1Rejects?), here's a true publicocrap release: http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motorspor ... 37269.html

You ain't fooling no-one Williams.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 01 Jan 2011, 22:22

LionZoo wrote:Just to bring it back on top (is that even allowed on F1Rejects?), here's a true publicocrap release: http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motorspor ... 37269.html

Reading that, I found a link to this story. How much are Ferrari paying him to say this, I wonder?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 01 Jan 2011, 22:33

noisebox wrote:
Faustus wrote:It's easy to forget just how highly-rated Robby Gordon was in the early 90s. The man was employed by Ford as a factory driver and was successful in everything he drove up to IndyCars. He was widely recognised as the best up-and-coming young American driver at the time. He won 2 CART races in 1995 and really should have been champion, even if he was a bit wild behind the wheel. I admired him even more for starting, and driving for, his own CART team. A great driver who should have been more successful in IndyCars.

I recall he had a test with Williams during which he was very quick - I think he could've got a very good F1 drive.

I think that's Jeff Gordon you're thinking of. I don't recall Robby testing for them - though I think either could've done very well in F1.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 01 Jan 2011, 22:37

dr-baker wrote:
LionZoo wrote:Just to bring it back on top (is that even allowed on F1Rejects?), here's a true publicocrap release: http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motorspor ... 37269.html

Reading that, I found a link to this story. How much are Ferrari paying him to say this, I wonder?

I don't think that's really publicocrap - I always got the impression Jos has gone a bit crazy since leaving F1

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 02 Jan 2011, 02:36

patrick wrote:I don't think that's really publicocrap - I always got the impression Jos has gone a bit crazy since leaving F1

Well, his ex-wife would certainly agree, you know the whole threatening her business...

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 02 Jan 2011, 04:56

Neither Jeff or Robby Gordon tested a Formula 1 car in an official test session. Jeff Gordon, in 2003, tested Montoya's Williams in a demo run, where he drove the Williams and Montoya drove Jeff Gordon's NASCAR Winston Cup car around the Indianapolis infield track.

Personally, I think he did quite well seeing he hadn't driven anything of that size in 10 years or something like that.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 02 Jan 2011, 17:01

patrick wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
LionZoo wrote:Just to bring it back on top (is that even allowed on F1Rejects?), here's a true publicocrap release: http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motorspor ... 37269.html

Reading that, I found a link to this story. How much are Ferrari paying him to say this, I wonder?

I don't think that's really publicocrap - I always got the impression Jos has gone a bit crazy since leaving F1

However, I kinda disagree with all of you. Though, the Pastor is a pay driver, he might as well be just as fast as Hulkenberg. And I also sort of agree with Jos, the max age of 23 was not a bad idea!

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 02 Jan 2011, 17:30

But how are new teams, with their limited budgets, going to cope with three cars instead of two? That's an issue...

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 02 Jan 2011, 20:03

Yup, but IF it will be three cars, that max 23 years old is not a bad idea. Max 23 or rookie/no points in career or something. Just like the third car in WRC some years ago, the driver could not have more than X number of podiums the last 2 or 3 years.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 03 Jan 2011, 04:36

Myrvold wrote:However, I kinda disagree with all of you. Though, the Pastor is a pay driver, he might as well be just as fast as Hulkenberg. And I also sort of agree with Jos, the max age of 23 was not a bad idea!

Hulkenberg is almost certainly faster than Pastor, and cuter(no homo). And he has done well in his rookie season, especially the pole position and was close to and sometimes even faster than Barrichello. Why else would they replace him? That's right, money. Money speaks louder than actions, especially when you lose 3 major sponsors. Team security is more important than driver skill.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 03 Jan 2011, 07:46

i disagree with the disagreeing of the disagreeing, i think the pastor is just as fast as the hulk, thing is only that the pastor is hugely inconsistent (except at monaco) and the hulk is consistent enough. At least it doesn't take him 4 years to become consistent. That's the big difference.

And no-one is cuter than pastor, except maybe nissany

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 03 Jan 2011, 11:59

Pastor has a hell of a lot to prove, in my view. OK, he's GP2 champion, but GP2 was pretty weak this year, wasn't it? And for those who say he's faster than Hulk, the jury's still out but don't forget that Hulk beat him easily in GP2 two years ago.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 03 Jan 2011, 13:28

Peter wrote:Hulkenberg is almost certainly faster than Pastor, and cuter(no homo). And he has done well in his rookie season, especially the pole position and was close to and sometimes even faster than Barrichello. Why else would they replace him? That's right, money. Money speaks louder than actions, especially when you lose 3 major sponsors. Team security is more important than driver skill.

In lover formulas, yes, however, we don't know how it is in F1 yet.

Argh... "no homo" seems more gay than not saying it. And why the heck say it, I hate it, it's not like anyone cares, it seems to pop up everywhere now

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 03 Jan 2011, 13:34

Myrvold wrote:Argh... "no homo" seems more gay than not saying it.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there, but please guys, stay away from homophobic comments, whatever the context.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 03 Jan 2011, 14:08

Jos Verstappen is insane. The third seat should be reserved for drivers over the age of 45 or under the age of 23, and only two cars in one particular team get classified. On top of that, one driver can not run the third car for more than 5 races. All teams would be required to bring the third car, but would not be required to actually use it.

watka · Post by **watka** » 03 Jan 2011, 15:33

Other than pitlane space, the main reason why 3 car teams wouldn't work would be that the teams wouldn't have much incentive to develop their 3rd car. Heck, Renault don't even develop their 2nd car, let alone a 3rd car!

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 03 Jan 2011, 21:51

noisebox wrote:
Myrvold wrote:Argh... "no homo" seems more gay than not saying it.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there, but please guys, stay away from homophobic comments, whatever the context.

It was quite the opposite. My point is, that I find it stupid to say "no homo" it's not like anyone cares about it. I'm not exactly homophobic

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 05 Jan 2011, 00:13

How about we don't use that expression in the future, everybody?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 05 Jan 2011, 00:32

thehemogoblin wrote:How about we don't use that expression in the future, everybody?

Or we could strengthen our status of being absolutely unfunny and always say "no straight". :lol: