Massa Hit / Will Not Race In Hungary

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 26 Jul 2009, 07:56

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2009/815/681.html
Man... Felipe was very lucky that it bounced before hitting him... I would suspect the bouncing would have removed some velocity off the spring but we saw even at that speed it's very damaging.

Still we all live in hope that Massa will get better soon.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 26 Jul 2009, 08:43

Felipe Massa remains in a stable condition in the AEK hospital in Budapest this morning, as doctors and Ferrari were left encouraged that there had been no further complications overnight.

Massa underwent successful surgery yesterday afternoon as a result of the skull fracture and brain concussion he suffered in a crash at Turn 4 during qualifying at the Hungaroring after he was hit on the head by a spring from Rubens Barrichello's car.

As is standard procedure for such operations, Massa was put into an induced coma and remained under observation in intensive care at the hospital.

A statement issued by Ferrari on Sunday morning said: "After undergoing an operation yesterday afternoon, Felipe Massa's condition remains stable and there were no further complications through the night.

"He will be given another CT scan today, which will provide more precise information."

Sources have told AUTOSPORT that the doctors at the hospital are 'optimistic' about Massa's recovery, but cannot say anything for definite until the brain scans have been performed.

Until those tests have been completed, it is also too early to judge how long Massa's recovery will take - or if he will be back in Formula 1 action this season.

Barrichello visited the AEK hospital in Budapest last night to find out news on his fellow Brazilian's condition, while Massa's father and other family members are flying out to Budapest to be with him, having not travelled to the race.

F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone also visited to the hospital for an update on how Massa was, and afterwards expressed his shock at the events.

"We thought we'd got through these problems," said Ecclestone. "I've spoken to Sid Watkins [F1 safety expert] and he's looking into it."

From: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77304

Some good news there!!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Jul 2009, 09:04

Was Karl Wendlinger the last F1 driver to be in a coma after an F1 crash, induced or otherwise, after his Monaco crash in 1994?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 26 Jul 2009, 09:06

OK, it seems like the man is OK. That's a relief.

CT scans will now show if there's anything else to worry about. That's the problem. Most of us remember Karl Wendlinger in 1994, when he crashed in Monaco, but was kept in coma for a few weeks, because of damage to his head. I sincerely hope Massa is all right really soon.

As for Bortolotti in Ferrari: an Italian driver in the Scuderia? Could be amusing.

crazydude1992 · Post by **crazydude1992** » 26 Jul 2009, 09:21

My money is on Badoer to race. I dont think that Mark Donohues case will repeat, mostly because of the advances medicine has made...

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 26 Jul 2009, 09:22

dr-baker wrote:Was Karl Wendlinger the last F1 driver to be in a coma after an F1 crash, induced or otherwise, after his Monaco crash in 1994?

I was thinking about Luciano Burti in 2001, but I am not sure if he was into a coma.

Jack O Malley · Post by **Jack O Malley** » 26 Jul 2009, 09:45

dr-baker wrote:Was Karl Wendlinger the last F1 driver to be in a coma after an F1 crash, induced or otherwise, after his Monaco crash in 1994?

I think Mika Hakkinen in Adelaide 95.

All my thoughts are with Felipe now, I am so much worried. :cry:

It is scary how two IDENTICAL accident happened in a few days.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 26 Jul 2009, 09:51

Jack O Malley wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Was Karl Wendlinger the last F1 driver to be in a coma after an F1 crash, induced or otherwise, after his Monaco crash in 1994?

I think Mika Hakkinen in Adelaide 95.

All my thoughts are with Felipe now, I am so much worried. It is scary how two IDENTICAL accident happened in a few days.

It's a simple matter of statistics: the waiting times of rare and uncorrelated events are distributed according to a negative exponential distribution, called Erlang distribution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_distribution

To sum it up: if, on average there are N events per year (plane crashes, volcano eruptions, etc.) it's more likely that these events are bunched together in a short span of time, rather then evenly spaced, N/12 per month.

razta · Post by **razta** » 26 Jul 2009, 09:56

HWNSNBM spotted..

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 26 Jul 2009, 10:27

razta wrote:HWNSNBM spotted..

Actually that reminds me. When we interviewed the one, the only, the great HWNSNBM in Melbourne, his paddock tag was a FERRARI one and, if I recall correctly, he was a guest of Mubadala.

So yes, HWNSNBM for the Scuderia may not be entirely far-fetched after all! :lol:

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 26 Jul 2009, 14:12

Some excellent news on Massa's condition:

Although Massa was woken up briefly on Sunday morning, the AEK Hospital's medical director Peter Bazso said on Sunday that the Brazilian would remain induced for another two days.

Bazso said that Massa remained in intensive care in a stable condition, but that there had been reassuring results at least from the surgery on a skull fracture and brain concussion.
...
Following tests conducted on Sunday, Bazso said that Massa had not sustained any neurological damage as a result of the crash, which was caused when he was hit on the head by a spring from Rubens Barrichello's Brawn GP car.

Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77321

Seems there might have been no serious damage. That's the very best news so far.

Libertango · Post by **Libertango** » 26 Jul 2009, 14:15

French TV interviewed Marc Gené just before the start of the race and he said that at the moment, Ferarri expected Massa to drive in Valencia but if he was unable to do so Luca or himself would be ready to replace him since they both have a superlicence but right now they haven't really talked about that since they expect Massa to recover for the next GP.

razta · Post by **razta** » 26 Jul 2009, 14:42

eytl wrote:
razta wrote:HWNSNBM spotted..

Actually that reminds me. When we interviewed the one, the only, the great HWNSNBM in Melbourne, his paddock tag was a FERRARI one and, if I recall correctly, he was a guest of Mubadala.

So yes, HWNSNBM for the Scuderia may not be entirely far-fetched after all!

HAHHA Really? oh god.. HWNSNBM in red, and look.. the Ferrari Truck in the background.. need i say more! :lol:

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 26 Jul 2009, 16:25

So, when I first saw this accident I was immediately worried, trying not to think of the worst, but I had it in the back of my head. Now Massa's condition seems to be stable, but it is of course still an immensely heavy accident. I pray for him and hope he will recover well, rather than soon, there are more important things than racing, and your health is one of them. With brain damage you never know, I wouldn't want to see him seriously suffering a loss of his mental powers. I am very relieved that he is alive, and it read in the reports that he was talking to people when he was briefly awakened from his coma, so I hope and expect him to recover. The doctors are speaking of two months though, so I'll subscribe to that until I hear further announcements. Let's wait and see how he gets out of it.

On the subject of this accident and F1 safety, I've thought for quite a while now that the heads are the most vulnerable part of a current F1 driver's body, and I think that rather than closed cockpits (which would not only be lots of work to implement, but also bring new problems with it, as Ross Brawn pointed out) they should work to improve the strength of the helmets (which has already improved tremendously).

On the subject of his replacement, I am pretty sure he is not going to be in the next race, and I guess it would be a safe bet to think that he won't make it to Spa either, so that's at least two races where he needs to be replaced. Now all this HWNSNBM theory stuff is fun and all, but, Luca Badoer. Please, God, Luca Badoer. He deserves to be in that seat, if only for all the bad luck he's had. It would be fantastic from an F1 Rejects point of view.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 26 Jul 2009, 17:12

The helmets are fine (as indeed proved by this accident). I was thinking that 1970s cars used to have a small "windscreen" in front of the pilot (see for example the Ferrari 312T below). It would completely ruin the aerodynamics in a modern car, but it could deflect or absorb energy from direct hits.

But then another problem arises: how to keep it clean in case of rain, dust, oil, mud dirt etc...

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 26 Jul 2009, 17:19

I expect Bernie will be very keen for Gene to have the drive in Valencia and Badoer to have the drive in Monza.

Jack O Malley · Post by **Jack O Malley** » 26 Jul 2009, 18:26

Waris wrote: Luca Badoer. Please, God, Luca Badoer. He deserves to be in that seat, if only for all the bad luck he's had. It would be fantastic from an F1 Rejects point of view.

I absolutely agree. Italian press is turning on the publicocrapometer talking about Schumacher as a substitute... Silly.

beau99 · Post by **beau99** » 26 Jul 2009, 18:48

Rubens Barrichello is saying on Twitter that he "is happy with Felipe's condition".

That is certainly encouraging news.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 26 Jul 2009, 18:54

Given that this season is suddenly getting a bit like 1982 in terms of someone different winning every race I was kind of hoping that if Massa doesn't make it for the next race they'll give Mario Andretti a call...

Post by **Nuppiz** » 26 Jul 2009, 19:43

I was at our cottage, relaxing on our terrace, when I heard the commentator sounding very worried and saying 'a horrible accident'. I immediately sprinted in and saw the awful sight: a Ferrari deep in the tyre barriers. I was only a little happy to know that it wasn't Räikkönen, but extremely worried about Massa and kept wondering what could have caused such an awful accident. Seeing that a piece of suspension had hit his helmet gave me chills, being just less than a week after Surtees' death. That made me stay indoors for the rest of the qualifying session, just to hear more about his condition. And come race day, I frantically looked at teletext before the race just to know if he was even alive and what was his condition now.

As much as I don't like Massa's personality and statements at times, I've always kept him in high regard as an excellent racing driver (I was actually cheering for him in the closing moments of the last season, only to be disappointed in the very end of the Brazilian GP). I seriously hope that he makes a 100% recovery and can return racing at some point. If he couldn't, it'd be a huge waste of driving talent. My utmost support is with Massa and his family right now.

As for the replacement driver;, Willi Weber has already said to the media that Schumacher is not interested and hasn't even yet fully recovered from his motorbike accident in February, so he's out of question. And I would seriously hope that Badoer is chosen as the replacement driver, just for him to have something to counter his disappointments in F1 and to lose that rather shameful "most races without a point" title.

johnston21 · Post by **johnston21** » 27 Jul 2009, 00:50

"Schumacher no longer possesses a Formula One superlicence."

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2737.shtml

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 27 Jul 2009, 07:42

muttley wrote:The helmets are fine (as indeed proved by this accident). I was thinking that 1970s cars used to have a small "windscreen" in front of the pilot (see for example the Ferrari 312T below). It would completely ruin the aerodynamics in a modern car, but it could deflect or absorb energy from direct hits.

But then another problem arises: how to keep it clean in case of rain, dust, oil, mud dirt etc...

That screen is purely for aero reasons, they were not designed to be looked through. I don't think that would offer any protection.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 27 Jul 2009, 08:40

noisebox wrote:That screen is purely for aero reasons, they were not designed to be looked through. I don't think that would offer any protection.

Why was it transparent then? Here, another example:

Remember that around that time, helmet visors weren't much of a protection either. What I am saying is, given the advances in technology, it is possible to place a small windscreen in front of the pilot and make it impact-resistant.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 27 Jul 2009, 08:47

muttley wrote:
noisebox wrote:That screen is purely for aero reasons, they were not designed to be looked through. I don't think that would offer any protection.

Why was it transparent then?

Purely aesthetic reasons - you can see that the driver is looking over the screen not through it, and if you look carefully you'ss see that the instruments are behind it up to the top of the screen.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 27 Jul 2009, 08:52

noisebox wrote:Purely aesthetic reasons - you can see that the driver is looking over the screen not through it, and if you look carefully you'ss see that the instruments are behind it up to the top of the screen.

I think you are wrong. If it hadn't been transparent (look at the McLaren!), the pilot wouldn't have been able to, for example, check the tires for blistering. In Formula One, nothing is there for purely aesthetic reasons. Unless you are Luigi Colani

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 Jul 2009, 09:24

johnston21 wrote:"Schumacher no longer possesses a Formula One superlicence."

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2737.shtml

He doesn't possess a taxi driver's licence as well, and remember the result? :lol:

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 27 Jul 2009, 12:13

I don't have a link for this, but Massa has an eye injury which could stop him from racing in F1 again. This means he's almost certainly out for the season, and if he's out of F1 it relieves Ferrari of pushing Kimi out the door to make room for Alonso. But its very disappointing if its the end for Felipe.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 27 Jul 2009, 12:28

Associated Press (yeah, right) is reporting it. An italian newspaper reports that according to the doctors his eye is "morphologically ok" (whathever that means) but "functionality hasn't been tested yet".

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 27 Jul 2009, 12:30

The BBC say that Massa isn't actually capable of talking yet. This does sound like he's had one hell of a smack on the head. It could be months and months before he is able to even train again, let alone race. Richard Hammond made a full recovery from similar injuries, lets hope Massa does the same.

He's lucky, if that had the middle of the visor it would have burried itself in his face and he'd almost certainly be dead.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 27 Jul 2009, 12:34

of course he can't speak, he's still intubated!!!

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 27 Jul 2009, 13:15

noisebox wrote:That screen is purely for aero reasons, they were not designed to be looked through. I don't think that would offer any protection.

As was this one

The Protos F2 which ran in the 1967 German Grand Prix had this interesting contraption with a hole cut in the front to aid visability.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 27 Jul 2009, 13:25

Felipe Massa's condition is improving and doctors at the Budapest hospital where he is have said they are reassured about the progress he is making.

The Ferrari driver suffered a skull fracture and concussion when he crashed during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix. The accident was caused when he was hit on the head by a spring that had come off Rubens Barrichello's car.

After an emergency operation on Saturday afternoon, Massa was put in an induced coma to help his recovery - and since then he has been making good progress.

Hungarian defence ministry spokesman Istvan Bocskai said that tests carried out on Massa were 'reassuring' about his condition. He could also move his hands and his legs - which were positive signs that there was no damage to his brain.

Bocskai told Hungarian television MTV: "Felipe has spent the night calmly. A few hours ago he had do undergo an ultrasonic test, because after impacts like the one he had sometimes water builds up in the bowels.

"In his case the situation was not so bad, the results were reassuring. Today they will also do another CT-scan on him to control the results from yesterday.

"He's woken up (from sedation) more and more often now and he's able to communicate passively, that is, he reacts when he's talked to, which I think is certainly a good sign. We are optimistic, in our hope a slow recovery is beginning."

When asked if he suffered any lasting damage to his brain, Bocskai said: "I think the results of the CT-scans have been encouraging. The doctors haven't seen any worrying signs which might indicate this, but I think in this phase it would be too soon to declare anything.

"What I have mentioned just now, that he was able to passively communicate when woken up, that he could move his legs and arms, all seemed to show there was no particular damage. The situation is encouraging, but we are not yet at the point in his recovery where we could say anything for certain."

He added: "Every single moment is important now. The doctors and nurses who are taking care of him are doing everything that is possible to help his recovery. He is in good hands. The hospital he is in has all the neccessary diagnostic tools, it is probably one of the most up to date hospitals in Europe.

"There are experienced army soldiers in the medical team that is working around him. The doctors who completed the operation had experiences with some really extreme injuries, amongst them Colonel (Lajos) Zsiros, who has attended many military missions. He is the leading surgeon of the Hungarian Defence Forces.

"And Peter Bazso, the medical director of the hospital is also a very experienced neurosurgeon. These circumstances are all helping him to make a recovery. We are hopeful, but I think we cannot yet state anything for certain, it would't be appropriate."

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo is flying to Budapest on Monday to be with Massa, who has also had visits from F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, Barrichello and members of Ferrari including team principal Stefano Domenicali.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77367

Worries over Massa's eyesight

Although no more official news on Felipe Massa's 'stable' condition has been announced since Monday morning in Budapest, concerns remain over the condition of the Brazilian's left eye after his accident in Hungary on Saturday.

With Massa struck in the helmet visor by an 80 gram (1.7 pound) metal damper spring as approximate speeds of 170 miles per hour, former World Champion Niki Lauda has already classed Felipe's accident as a 'lucky' one in that the driver's helmet was not hit in a more central point.

With the 28-year-old lying in an induced coma but with a constantly improving condition in the Hungarian capital, neurosurgeon Robert Veres has concerns over Massa's eyesight.

"I am sure but we do not know the extent yet," the Professor replied to local reporters when asked if Massa was likely to have received eye damage. The recovering Brazilian driver has moved limbs on Monday morning, however, in reaction to being spoken to. The Massa family - including wife Raphaela, who is due to deliver the couple's first child in November - and Ferrari president Luca di Montezemelo are present at the AEK hospital.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/07/ ... -eyesight/

Another good article about how to improve safety- http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/n ... s-crashes/

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 27 Jul 2009, 18:28

Nin13 wrote:Another good article about how to improve safety- http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/n ... s-crashes/
The Big E wrote:We need to look at helmet technology and what can be improved. We might be able to learn from other sports. We can look at ice-hockey, where goalies have to be able to see clearly but still have a visor that is strong enough to withstand the impact from a puck going like a bullet.

I'm not entirely sure where Bernie was going here. While the logic might be there, goaltenders' masks are designed to deflect impacts to the facial area around the head, I'm not sure this would work in a car. Masks are designed around the possibility of being struck by a 225-230 gram (8 ounce) puck up to 170 km/h (105 mph). Considering the protection required, a mask-inspired racing racing helmet would be excessively wide and would require the cockpit protection to be widened to allow the drivers to move their heads. Even with thicker padding, the temple areas would not deflect impacts well.

Bernie said, "goalies have to be able to see clearly but still have a visor." I have to question this as well. The current crop of masks have good visibility but before the eyes and nose is a metal cage, not a visor (such as the plastic visor used by skaters or racing drivers). If one is to put a visor on a mask, it would have to be offset forward a little to clear the crown of the forehead when opened. With the thicker padding, carbon fibre material, and other design modifications, the design could work for impacts up to 350 km/h but there would still be too many design flaws and disadvantages to such a helmet.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 27 Jul 2009, 18:50

Just read what had been written about this accident in the Finnish magazine Iltalehti. And saw a frightening line of text (translated here):

Iltalehti wrote:If the spring detached from Rubens Barrichello's car had hit only a few centimeters lower, it would have pierced the visor and Massa's fate wouldn't have been unclear: Rafaela Massa would have became a widow.

So this was a very, very close call and even more reminiscent from Senna's accident. But this time luck was on Massa's side in that the spring hit the helmet instead, even if it was, of course, very unlucky to be a target of such a freak accident. :shock:

Also, the same article ended in a couple of sentences that I want to share with the rest of the world:

Iltalehti wrote:The most important race of Massa's life is now ahead of him. And we all want that he wins it.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 27 Jul 2009, 18:53

Niki Lauda also said that if the hit had been more central, the spring would have gone through Massa's head. He certainly doesn't mince his words.

If that's true, then he's lucky. But even so, he's horrendously unlucky that the bloody thing hit him in the first place.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 27 Jul 2009, 20:13

Mantovani just made this:

It's very sweet. I have a little tears in my eyes.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 27 Jul 2009, 20:23

muttley wrote:Mantovani just made this:

It's very sweet. I have a little tears in my eyes.

It's quite touching. I like the little sticking plaster.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 28 Jul 2009, 13:04

One of Felipe Massa's doctors feels that the Brazilian may be fit enough to leave hospital within ten days if his condition continues to improve at its current rate. The Ferrari driver has been in Budapest's AEK hospital since Saturday following his shocking accident during Hungarian Grand Prix qualifying.

Having been rushed to hospital on Saturday with potentially life threatening injuries, 28-year-old Massa was placed into an induced coma until Monday afternoon, when woken early by doctors due to the speed of his recovery. "My prediction is that he could leave the hospital on his legs," Doctor Peter Bazso told Hungary's M1 television channel.

"If his recovery continues at this rate, I don't doubt that he could be discharged within ten days. He is constantly more and more awake, talking with family and friends." The doctor did, however, stress that the driver has not been cleared with a clean bill of health. "I want to emphasize that, although he is recovering, it is not the end of it and he is still in danger," Bazso added. "Of course, the danger is decreasing day-by-day."

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/07/ ... next-week/

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 30 Jul 2009, 12:15

Ouch

Hopefully he'll recover before too long.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 03 Aug 2009, 11:07

Massa takes the airplane to fly home:

http://www.corriere.it/gallery/Extra/2009/formula1/vuoto.shtml?formula1/formula1/massa_brasile&1

The eye still looks bad, but at least he's walking on his own feet. Get well and come back soon!