Replacing Massa

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 27 Jul 2009, 09:31

I know its not in good taste to talk about it while Massa is still in intensive care, but its bound to happen.

There's been rumours of Schumacher, Alonso and Bourdais as well as the test drivers.

Gene and Badoer were unfathomably shite when they were racing, god knows how slow they would be now. They are also both ancient! Would be cool to see Schumacher but I recon Alonso will drive, for one race at least, if the Renault ban is upheld.

Can't see them going with Bourdais, although he'd probably be preferable to Gene or Badoer as he'd probably be at least somewhere near the pace.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 27 Jul 2009, 09:37

Schumacher: confirmed 'no'.
Bourdais: very unlikely, he was beaten at Toro Rosso by his rookie team mate so badly that Ferrari doesn't think he's really up to it.
Alonso: you think that his contract allows it?
Badoer: promised to be the official reserve driver, but is 39 already. The one I'd like to see, though.

Gene: likely to be chosen although he's a bit old too and hasn't got that much experience of the 2009 car.
Insert-another-young-Italian-here: possible.

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 27 Jul 2009, 09:43

Yeah Willi Webber has said no, but I can't stop myself thinking it might happen.

I hope Badoer gets it, but I think it will be Gene. He's a bit younger and has more recent racing experience. Won Le Mans earlier this year so he can't be that much of a muppet.

Who knows what loops holes and clauses 'nando has worked into his contract, time will tell. Renault seem to to on a similar pace to Ferrari at the mo though so it would only be of real value to him if Renault did get the ban.

There's quite a few drivers about though with recent(ish) F1 experience. Liuzzi, Klien etc. They are also still young and have something to prove

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 Jul 2009, 09:47

I wonder how many of the people mentioned there are presently fit enough to drive a Formula 1 car?

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 27 Jul 2009, 09:52

CarlosFerreira wrote:I wonder how many of the people mentioned there are presently fit enough to drive a Formula 1 car?

Bourdais, maybe Gene (depending on his Le Mans training), not sure how fit MS is keeping himself.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 27 Jul 2009, 09:56

JDOD wrote:Bourdais, maybe Gene (depending on his Le Mans training), not sure how fit MS is keeping himself.

Schumacher got injured during a motorbike race earlier this year and, according to Weber, he'still recovering. I don't think he will be racing anytime soon.

Pedro_Diniz · Post by **Pedro_Diniz** » 27 Jul 2009, 10:33

JDOD wrote:Gene and Badoer were unfathomably shite when they were racing

Puh-lease. They were both driving absolute dogs of cars for the majority of their careers. Gene proved he had some talent when he stepped into a Williams a few years back with a decent performance at Monza.
As for Badoer, he surely has some talent if he's a Ferrari test-driver. I'd love to see him racing a Ferrari now. It's a shame we don't have Friday drivers these days, we would at least see whether he actually had equal speed to Massa Raikkonen.

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 27 Jul 2009, 10:34

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/07/27/schumacher-won-t-replace-massa-manager-confirms/

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 27 Jul 2009, 11:58

I think Boudais will be the best best TBH. He's unlikely to have any contractual issues (like Alonso for example) and no one else who may be available, test drivers, reserve drivers, GP2 drivers etc etc. Has anywhere near the same level of 2009 spec experience. OK, he's unlikely to do anything great, but he'll get the car around at an adequate pace.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 27 Jul 2009, 12:07

Badoer has to be the best bet. He may be ancient, but he's still younger than Schumi, he knows Ferrari inside out, he'll have had some experience in that car, he's on a promise and he has unfulfilled talent. And he's the official third driver.

That said, since Alonso isn't likely to be driving in Valencia, Bernie might lean on Ferrari to race Gene.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 27 Jul 2009, 12:21

Pedro_Diniz wrote:
JDOD wrote:Gene and Badoer were unfathomably shite when they were racing

Puh-lease. They were both driving absolute dogs of cars for the majority of their careers. Gene proved he had some talent when he stepped into a Williams a few years back with a decent performance at Monza.
As for Badoer, he surely has some talent if he's a Ferrari test-driver. I'd love to see him racing a Ferrari now. It's a shame we don't have Friday drivers these days, we would at least see whether he actually had equal speed to Massa Raikkonen.

Yeah, I don't think Forti and Minardi are the best showcases for a driver's talents. Actually, I think they were quite "fathomably shite" - they'd have been quicker going round on push bikes.

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 27 Jul 2009, 12:23

fjackdaw wrote:
Pedro_Diniz wrote:
JDOD wrote:Gene and Badoer were unfathomably shite when they were racing

Puh-lease. They were both driving absolute dogs of cars for the majority of their careers. Gene proved he had some talent when he stepped into a Williams a few years back with a decent performance at Monza.
As for Badoer, he surely has some talent if he's a Ferrari test-driver. I'd love to see him racing a Ferrari now. It's a shame we don't have Friday drivers these days, we would at least see whether he actually had equal speed to Massa Raikkonen.

Yeah, I don't think Forti and Minardi are the best showcases for a driver's talents. Actually, I think they were quite "fathomably shite" - they'd have been quicker going round on push bikes.

#
Good point. Badoer did actually have some shite luck too. I still remember when his Minardi expired while he was running 4th and he broke down in tears.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 27 Jul 2009, 13:55

Bourdais is managed by Nicolas Todt, and some are making the Todt link to put Bourdais in the Ferrari. Personally I think Bortoletti will get the drive, the Italian press would love that and he did well when he tested for Ferrari.

alvaro3d · Post by **alvaro3d** » 27 Jul 2009, 14:32

I know its very unlikely but Valentino Rossi is interested in F1 and also is Sebastian Loeb

Dom · Post by **Dom** » 27 Jul 2009, 15:31

You're all barking up the wrong tree. Stefano Domenicali is at this very moment on the phone to Mika Salo.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 Jul 2009, 15:36

alvaro3d wrote:I know its very unlikely but Valentino Rossi is interested in F1 and also is Sebastian Loeb

They could even run a reality show on RAI 1, hosted by Berlusconi himself, to decide between Rossi and Loeb. I'd pay to see that! :mrgreen:

Post by **Nuppiz** » 27 Jul 2009, 16:19

CarlosFerreira wrote:
alvaro3d wrote:I know its very unlikely but Valentino Rossi is interested in F1 and also is Sebastian Loeb

They could even run a reality show on RAI 1, hosted by Berlusconi himself, to decide between Rossi and Loeb. I'd pay to see that!

"Who wants to be a Ferrari F1 Driver?" :lol:

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 Jul 2009, 16:24

Nuppiz wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
alvaro3d wrote:I know its very unlikely but Valentino Rossi is interested in F1 and also is Sebastian Loeb

They could even run a reality show on RAI 1, hosted by Berlusconi himself, to decide between Rossi and Loeb. I'd pay to see that!

"Who wants to be a Ferrari F1 Driver?"

Hey, it's a question if national-ah interest-ah! The loser gets some from Silvio's bunnies. :roll:

Osiris13 · Post by **Osiris13** » 27 Jul 2009, 16:41

Schuey must be fairly fit - that Top Gear test track must give you a good workout?

And nobody's mentioned JV yet? :lol:

gumbidave · Post by **gumbidave** » 27 Jul 2009, 16:55

Loeb's a good shout - isn't he supposed to drive for STR in Abu Dhabi? Would Citroen give him the time off for Valencia?
Bourdais - not if he's planning to continue his legal action against STR.
JV - unlikely, but (a) Villeneuve in a Ferrari? I'd watch that!

JDOD · Post by **JDOD** » 27 Jul 2009, 17:02

Well its starting to look like Massa will be out for the rest of the season at least.

Hopefully the second seat at Ferrari will be a revolving door of hilarious mediocrity and celebrity guests!

deCrasheris · Post by **deCrasheris** » 27 Jul 2009, 17:21

To me the sentimental favorite is Badoer because of his loyalty towards Ferrari and i hope he gets the drive too in which he could escape rejectdom. More than likely with Ferrari who knows, It could be Alonso, Bourdais (who would find a way to screw this one up), Gene, Hulkenburg, or even JV. Hopefully Massa's going to make a full recovery and be back on the grid next year.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 27 Jul 2009, 17:54

Eccelstone would ensure that Schumacher would be handed his Superlicence back without having to turn a wheel if he wanted it (imagine the increase in viewing figures for one thing), but it looks like he doesn't want it, and at 40 years old, guts of 3 years out of the sport and a mildly competitive car at best beckoning, I can't blame him.

I personally think Gene has more "pure" speed than Badoer (someone's going to pull out a comparison of them in '99 to prove me wrong now that I've said that), so I'd expect Ferrari to go with him if they're taking one of their own testers.

Jack O Malley · Post by **Jack O Malley** » 27 Jul 2009, 19:02

CarlosFerreira wrote:
alvaro3d wrote:I know its very unlikely but Valentino Rossi is interested in F1 and also is Sebastian Loeb

They could even run a reality show on RAI 1, hosted by Berlusconi himself, to decide between Rossi and Loeb. I'd pay to see that!

Lol

Enforcer wrote:I personally think Gene has more "pure" speed than Badoer (someone's going to pull out a comparison of them in '99 to prove me wrong now that I've said that), so I'd expect Ferrari to go with him if they're taking one of their own testers.

I expect that too. But I really really hope Badoer to get that drive.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 27 Jul 2009, 19:11

My ludicrous suggestion is that Eddie Irvine gets the drive

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 27 Jul 2009, 20:17

I will just follow the rumour I've heard somewhere that Ferrari is contractually bound to use Luca Badoer as a reserve driver. If that's false, I will allow myself to dream an unrealistic dream: Takuma Sato for Ferrari replacement driver. :mrgreen:

nit · Post by **nit** » 27 Jul 2009, 22:27

has none said its should be the one the only HWNSNBM should be the replacing massa??

, and you call yourself f1 reject fans :-p

Coo · Post by **Coo** » 27 Jul 2009, 22:29

Has Ide got his super-license back yet?

GinShaiman · Post by **GinShaiman** » 27 Jul 2009, 22:39

Valencia is a street circuit something Bourdais is supposed to be good at. Plus of all the names mentioned so far he is only one to to have actually raced there before. That may count in his favour, his performances this year may not. Lauda has been quoted as rubbishing Gene, Badoer and Bourdais as suitable replacements not that the grumpy old man has any say.
There may also be a number of drivers on the grid who have a Ferrari get out clauses in their contracts that allow them to make the jump.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 Jul 2009, 22:58

Imagine the titles on Italian newspapers:

Rejectom hits Ferrari
Toro Rosso-fired driver to replace Massa
All hope is lost

Post by **Nuppiz** » 27 Jul 2009, 23:08

I read a news article where Jean Alesi said something like this: "Bourdais? I'd rather take Jean Todt (as the replacement driver)!". He doesn't have much say there either, but at least he's much closer to Ferrari than Lauda.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 27 Jul 2009, 23:15

Nuppiz wrote:I read a news article where Jean Alesi said something like this: "Bourdais? I'd rather take Jean Todt (as the replacement driver)!". He doesn't have much say there either, but at least he's much closer to Ferrari than Lauda.

I remember Alesi was very critical when Salo got the drive over Badoer in 1999, so I'd imagine his stance would be very similar now.

johnston21 · Post by **johnston21** » 27 Jul 2009, 23:52

This article sums it up well.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2834.shtml

...could have been written from the material posted here. :mrgreen:

minrdi · Post by **minrdi** » 28 Jul 2009, 00:04

I'm extremely biased, but I'd love to see Gene return to the F1 fold and appear at the next round on a Spanish track - it'd make good PR for the Spanish fans.

Although it'd also be great to see Badoer have a punt at getting out of Rejectdom, he hasn't raced competitively in 10 years and would be very race-rusty. At least Marc has continued to race after being booted into the F1 wilderness and has the results to support him.

Bourdais being managed by Nicolas Todt is a useful connection to Ferrari, and as sure as I am that he'd be desperate for the drive, I wouldn't take a risk on him if I was in charge of Ferrari.

Villeneuve would be great to see in a Ferrari, but I don't believe it'll happen for the same reasons as Bourdais.

And would Flavio seriously consider temporarily releasing Alonso to go to a rival team? Flav owes the Scuderia no favours, but it would be quite the coup if it did happen!

My money says Schumi might make the comeback.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Regardless, I wish Felipe a speedy recovery and am hoping against hope that his eye injury is not career-threatening. It would be a devastating way to have to leave F1 and a terrible loss for the circus and his fans worldwide. Helmut Marko's (Red Bull's honcho) F1 career was cut short when a stone pierced his visor and blinded him, and I can only hope that the same fate does not befall Felipe. Get well soon, mate .

Pepys · Post by **Pepys** » 28 Jul 2009, 02:06

If Ferrari really care about 3rd in the constructor's, they'll want someone capable like Schum or Alonso scoring points by the next race. Perhaps they're waiting for more information on Felipe? They have four weeks. If he'll be back next year convince Schumacher to come back. If he's done for good find a way to get Alonso.

I'm pulling for Felipe and I'd love to see Schum back for the end of the year.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 28 Jul 2009, 08:42

Ferrari are reportedly 'open' to the idea of Michael Schumacher replacing Felipe Massa for the rest of the season.

Although the German's return to F1 must, at this stage, be considered more unlikely than likely, he continues to feature prominently on what is a very short list of potential replacements for the stricken Massa.

According to The Times, 'The team have three reserve drivers on their books in addition to Massa's team-mate, Kimi Raikkonen, in Luca Badoer, Marc Gené and Schumacher, the seven-times world champion.

'With neither Badoer nor Gené thought likely to be given the seat, there was immediate speculation that Schumacher might make a sensational comeback, which was initially ruled out by his manager. However, Ferrari sources say all options are open.'

Schumacher himself has kept quiet on the speculation.

However, one significant obstacle blocking Schumacher's possible return to F1 is the state of his fitness. The German has not raced competitively since 2006 and even the four-week break before Valencia may not be sufficient time in which to adequately prepare for the rigors of motor racing. The Times also reports that 'The problem with Schumacher - if, indeed, he is prepared to consider a return to racing - is that he is suffering from lower back and shoulder injuries that resulted from a fall off a motorbike during a test in Spain in February. It is not known whether these injuries are serious enough to prevent him returning to race driving, although one positive sign was that he was able to complete two days of karting during an event in Germany this month.'

Ferrari themselves have insisted they are yet to have given serious consideration to the identity of Massa's stand-in.

"For us, the first priority is to find out Felipe's recovery progress and situation," Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo told reporters after flying in to visit Massa in Budapest. "Felipe is a very important member of the Ferrari family, not just the Ferrari team.

"First priority now is to find out the situation with him and then we will see and we will think, without pressure. Only then will we make a decision and if we have to make a decision we will make a good one."

Fernando Alonso is another contender, although it is doubtful whether Renault would consider releasing him even if their suspension from the Valencia GP is upheld. With Nelson Piquet's future in severe jeopardy, Alonso's exit would thus mean that the team would be required to find not one but two drivers for the rest of the campaign.

Much depends on the extent of Massa's injuries - particularly those to his left eye - and the imminent evaluations on whether it is feasible for him to return next season. It has been widely speculated that a deal is already in place for Alonso to move to Ferrari at the end of the season and if Massa's return is deemed unlikely then the team could look to hasten the Spaniard's arrival as Kimi Raikkonen's team-mate rather than replacement.

From: http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 68,00.html

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 28 Jul 2009, 09:16

None of these stories address whether Renault's failure to provide a car for Alonso at Valencia will constitute a breach of his contract. If it does he could be free to go elsewhere...

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 28 Jul 2009, 10:52

Interesting... Shumi's not ruling himself out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 172310.stm

razta · Post by **razta** » 28 Jul 2009, 11:08

Schumi to COME BACK!! WOOP Bernie's probably seeing the $$ in his eyes

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 28 Jul 2009, 11:33

noisebox wrote:Interesting... Shumi's not ruling himself out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 172310.stm

I love the way that article also suggests Coulthard as a possibility. They're just being silly now and throwing out any old names, surely!

How about Nigel Mansell?