BMW Confirmed Gone

watka · Post by **watka** » 29 Jul 2009, 20:38

WeirdKerr wrote:If i was in charge I would tell BMW not to bother turning up at Valencia......

Well Renault won't be... :lol:

If Regie don't hang on to Alonso, then there really isn't anything left for them in F1.

minrdi · Post by **minrdi** » 29 Jul 2009, 22:23

When it came to the ROTY nomination, I was split 50:50 between the Honda board (for bailing at precisely the time the team headed for an upswing in results) and for Max Mosley (well, for being Max).

BMW takes the cake here. Freezing development on their 2008 car that had a realistic shot at the championship to concentrate on their 2009 package which, Australia aside, has consistently been one of the worst packages on the grid and embarrassed great drivers and a team with one of the best facilities and workforces in F1. They pushed the development of KERS at a completely wrong time in the world economic cycle, and refused to back down when the other teams screamed about the costs, forcing many of the teams to develop their own systems fearing BMW would disappear into the distance. In spite of being the first to develop and launch KERS, it's never worked for BMW Sauber and they've quietly ditched it.

They were then one of the leading advocates into the FOTA breakaway series, and with that matter resolved and a new Concorde Agreement to sign, they pull the pin. The last 3-6 months of posturing and pontificating about the security of F1 by BMW has been nothing but a smoke and mirrors exercise when their fans (like me) and the greater F1 community at large blink once and find that they're walking away from it all.

I agree that manufacturers should be a part of the F1 circus, but what frustrates me about the majority of the manufacturers is that they come and go as they please, and bail when the chips are down. "To hell with the consequences. We're involved purely to sell cars. People won't buy our products if we're not winning."

The great side of F1 is the traditional RACING TEAMS and manufacturers who participate each year TO RACE - not with the primary aim of getting better branding and leveraging better car sales, but to race.

I hoped that BMW's buy-out of the Sauber Team would have seen the next era in F1, where a manufacturer successfully buys into a technically sound privateer outfit and brings it to the fore to challenge the traditional big guns, while still keeping its origins and privateer racing spirit alive along the way. Peter Sauber only committed to the buy-out with these very intentions in mind, and would no doubt be devastated to see what he has largely built being blown asunder by a corporate board he sold his company to in good faith.

I hope that someone is able to step in to save the team and resuce its talented staff, and reform it to be a constructor that is a racing outfit with a passion for racing and intent on making a long-term commitment to the sport. Brawn has proven what can be achieved when this happens, and have carved a wonderful path in spite of Honda's withdrawal (whether or not they would be achieving the same level of success if Honda were still around is another matter entirely and not something I'll debate here

), and I hope that the same outcome can be achieved for the Hinwil squad.

But for now, until someone else cocks up in a bigger fashion - my nomination for ROTY is BMW.

Jack O Malley · Post by **Jack O Malley** » 29 Jul 2009, 22:56

minrdi wrote:I hope that someone is able to step in to save the team and resuce its talented staff, and reform it to be a constructor that is a racing outfit with a passion for racing and intent on making a long-term commitment to the sport.

I agree with your ROTY nomination for BMWSauber - btw, it may be quite off-topic, but I just thought that Schumacher could do it. He knows Peter Sauber from the very start of his career, and BMWS team seems to love him (remember "Thanks Michael" on their rear wing in Bra 06).

tastyhouse · Post by **tastyhouse** » 29 Jul 2009, 23:38

Is Kubica's reaction posted anywhere?

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 30 Jul 2009, 00:18

tastyhouse wrote:Is Kubica's reaction posted anywhere?

We have to give him a break. For Heidfeld, it's just another team. For Kubica, it's the team that brought him to F1. He must be a little shocked.

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 30 Jul 2009, 00:37

They came. They saw. They hung around abit. They left.
Weren't BMW always bitching about Williams when they were partners? Boy they really showed them the proper way to run an F1 team, good work guys!

tastyhouse · Post by **tastyhouse** » 30 Jul 2009, 01:23

Dude - I feel bad for Theissen kind of - you could tell in that press conference he was absolutely gutted.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 30 Jul 2009, 10:03

Time to consider the chances of the new entrants then.

BMW are leaving.
Toyota might well be staying for another year.
Renault are troublemakers and a fairweather team but Briatore still seems busy.

If 2 of the 3 new entrants make the grid, that's 22 cars which is more than most recent seasons. If all 3 make it then it's 24, a number we haven't been lucky enough to have in a while.

Will FIA and FOTA now decide to give Manor or Campos a bit more of a leg-up? I'm still dumbfounded as to how Manor will make it off their own back given their own plans are so modest. Campos in comparison almost look like a behemoth of an outfit, and here's the situation as I last read it:

The Spaniard told Britain's weekly Autosport magazine that the Cosworth-engined car, designed by Italy's Dallara, was also progressing well.

"The model will be in the wind tunnel for the first time next week," he said. "We have set up a company called Dallara-Campos to build the cars in a new factory. We are recruiting 200 people.

"I hope to announce one driver at the European Grand Prix in (Valencia in) August," added the former Minardi Formula One driver.

Spanish-based Campos Meta are one of three new teams due to make their debuts next season, the others being U.S. F1 and Manor Grand Prix.

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 30 Jul 2009, 11:19

im sad to see BMW go
i didnt mind them to b honest...
im glad they got 1 win.... still 1 more than Toyota ever look like getting at the moment....
i really hope Peter Sauber takes control the team again...

im sure both Kubica and Heidfeld will find drives for next year no matter what happens to the team...

could Stoddard buy it back and bring back Minardi????

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 30 Jul 2009, 11:25

I doubt Heidfeld will get a drive, he's old and has shown little this season, his only hope is a new team. Kubica will get a drive somewhere (Williams? Renault?) but he'll need a good season next year or he won't be seen as champion material.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 30 Jul 2009, 12:41

I've just got the most recent copy of Autosport, out today and guess what? A full page advertisising for a race engineer and Senior Aerodynamicist for... BMW Sauber! :lol:

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 Jul 2009, 13:45

dr-baker wrote:I've just got the most recent copy of Autosport, out today and guess what? A full page advertisising for a race engineer and Senior Aerodynamicist for... BMW Sauber!

This whole thing did catch the team by surprise, huh?

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 30 Jul 2009, 14:02

StoneColdSpider wrote:im sad to see BMW go
i didnt mind them to b honest...
im glad they got 1 win.... still 1 more than Toyota ever look like getting at the moment....
i really hope Peter Sauber takes control the team again...
could Stoddard buy it back and bring back Minardi????

I read a statement from Pete Sauber that it will be difficult for him to take over again the Hinwil team and that the survival of Sauber is complicated.
I hope we have better news in the future. Sauber was a team that despite having not won a race had more than enough racing pedigree to be in F-1, which needs indeed more teams committed to racing and not to fanfarre.

I really thought BMW would turn it into a championship contender and that their longview plan was serious. How silly I am!

Fitch · Post by **Fitch** » 30 Jul 2009, 21:52

Was some Discussion on the SpeedTV Boards about Epsilon Euskadi buying BMW's Share of the team......Which is a good and Bad thing.....Good in that the team would survive...Bad in that, well it's Epsilon Euskadi, But that said, they did seem to have a Real live Plan in place for their F1 team.....

Several people have brought up a point in a roundabout way.....If the Car is so bad, and they're mired in the back, and if they are going to pull out at the end of the Season anyways....Why go on?..............Why not just leave F1 now....Honestly, what is the point, you can't possibly be developing something that will take the car from the very back to Front again in what little time is left...just go. Unless there is a plan for the team. I do realize they have an agreement with the FIA to compete the entire season, but that can be broken.

BTW: Does this mean that BMW now owe each of the remaining FOTA teams $50 Million as they are essentially Leaving the group?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 01 Aug 2009, 01:00

In all fairness this is a shame, why couldn't it have been Toyota.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 01 Aug 2009, 08:38

Not sure how this will play out. The situation looks to be different to Brawn/Honda last year. For one, Honda pulled out with a virtually complete car, and then pretty much guarenteed Brawn coulf compete in 2009 with a large slice of funding. BMW will not be as advanced as Honda were on the 2009 car, however, with more rules stability between 09 & 10 than there was between 08 & 09 there could be scope for a new car to be produced by a stripped down team under the guidance of Peter Sauber.

I think the most likely outcome is that one of the prospective 2010 entrants aligns with Peter Sauber to get the cars on the grid. I think though, that there is a possibility that next year we will have a two tier grid with the current established teams in the first group and the three new teams and whatever comes out of Sauber some way behind.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 01 Aug 2009, 08:47

BMW to test 2 ex-Formula BMW participants
Is it just me or is there alot more to read into this...

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 01 Aug 2009, 10:21

Wizzie wrote:BMW to test 2 ex-Formula BMW participants
Is it just me or is there alot more to read into this...

It does seem odd that they would do it in December, but if that is when the testing ban ends, then I can understand it a little bit. I don't think it means too much, except possibly that they have investors already lined up to buy the team (hello non-Cosworth applicants). I've seen Gutierrez drive at Indianapolis and the kid is quick much to the pleasure of the Mexican fans in attendance. He dominated the F-BMW race I saw, leaving one Adrian Tambay well in his dust.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 01 Aug 2009, 12:47

Wizzie wrote:BMW to test 2 ex-Formula BMW participants
Is it just me or is there alot more to read into this...

It's just you. BMW are doing it because they promised those drivers a Formula One test, and they're going to honour that promise despite withdrawing.

Fitch · Post by **Fitch** » 02 Aug 2009, 01:58

Peter Sauber has all but said he would go to the ends of the world to save the team. But he says he will not be the Boss on the Pit wall. But he is using his immense number of contacts to find someone to buy in, he is desperate to save his Employees Jobs.

I'm gonna call it here......Next year..Minardi-Sauber

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 02 Aug 2009, 15:24

Are Peter Sauber and Stoddy even friends?
Sauber will probably contact one of those guys who wanted to join F1 in 2010, but failed to get on the entry list.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 03 Aug 2009, 09:54

Debaser wrote:I doubt Heidfeld will get a drive, he's old and has shown little this season, his only hope is a new team. Kubica will get a drive somewhere (Williams? Renault?) but he'll need a good season next year or he won't be seen as champion material.

I'd be amazed if Heidfeld is cast-off. He's shown a more professional attitude than his team-mate and is clearly a safe-pair of hands who'd be a dream number 2 for a team at the sharp end of the grid.

Less man-management needed than with World Champion Formula Late Thirties Crybaby Rubens Barrichello who has suddenly out of nowhere decided he wants to become a total knob.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 03 Aug 2009, 10:07

jackanderton wrote:
Debaser wrote:I doubt Heidfeld will get a drive, he's old and has shown little this season, his only hope is a new team. Kubica will get a drive somewhere (Williams? Renault?) but he'll need a good season next year or he won't be seen as champion material.

I'd be amazed if Heidfeld is cast-off. He's shown a more professional attitude than his team-mate and is clearly a safe-pair of hands who'd be a dream number 2 for a team at the sharp end of the grid.

Less man-management needed than with World Champion Formula Late Thirties Crybaby Rubens Barrichello who has suddenly out of nowhere decided he wants to become a total knob.

No doubt there. He's also usually quick and bit of fighter when needed, so I suppose Brawn, for example, would like a man like him alonside Jenson. Remember, Heidfeld has benn through a lot of cars, situations and teams, and that should help him adapt to new situations.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 03 Aug 2009, 12:00

Epsilon Euskadi put their hand up as interested in BMW's place. They apparently continued their Formula One project even though they missed out on a grid place, so they'd have all the funding they need. I can see them joining together with Peter Sauber to form something like Epsilon/Sauber Sport.

And Brawn won't go for Heidfeld. He just can't convert points finishes into wins. He'd be better off somewhere like Manor or USF1, teams who are in need of much more experience than Brawn's lineup.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 03 Aug 2009, 12:13

Captain Hammer wrote:And Brawn won't go for Heidfeld. He just can't convert points finishes into wins. He'd be better off somewhere like Manor or USF1, teams who are in need of much more experience than Brawn's lineup.

Not sure about that. Brawn doesn't need another points-finishes-into-wins man - he's got "our Jens" to do that. He needs someone to guard his back - and Heidfeld might do the trick. The problem, if you can out it that way, might be that Heidfeld is consistently better and faster that Button (I'd argue he probably is), and would beat him into oblivion. Just my 2 cents.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 03 Aug 2009, 12:41

CarlosFerreira wrote:Remember, Heidfeld has benn through a lot of cars, situations and teams, and that should help him adapt to new situations.

That makes him The German Fisichella, though Heidfeld never attended the Briatore School For Successful F1 Careers

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 03 Aug 2009, 14:25

Today, a rumour is being spread in the Brazilian news that Nelson Piquet wants to buy a share of Sauber, hence guaranteeing a berth for his pathetic son in the 2010 season.

The news are in Portuguese, of course:

http://www2.uol.com.br/teojose/noticias ... u66496.shl

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 03 Aug 2009, 15:07

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 4958.shtml

That's the news in English. The contract would probably mean that Piquet stays, and I can see a Heidfeld/Piquet team working well. Kubica will end up at Briatore F1 alongside either Alonso or Briatore's new kick-target after Piquet's gone.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 05 Aug 2009, 04:06

Stefan Grand Prix?

bigslydoc · Post by **bigslydoc** » 05 Aug 2009, 05:20

CarlosFerreira wrote:Not sure about that. Brawn doesn't need another points-finishes-into-wins man - he's got "our Jens" to do that. He needs someone to guard his back - and Heidfeld might do the trick. The problem, if you can out it that way, might be that Heidfeld is consistently better and faster that Button (I'd argue he probably is), and would beat him into oblivion. Just my 2 cents.

Seems like it might become a bit of a fashion to do this. McLaren have it with Hamilton and Kovalainen, Renault do it with Alonso and a another, etc... Just about the only top teams who don't have a definite team leader is Red Bull and Ferrari - who after all are the team who took it to the limit and beyond with Schumacher and Irvine/Barrichello. As for Heidfeld, I would be shocked if he was lost to F1. He is quick, consistent, reliable and keeps out of trouble. Must admit I have always though he was under-rated and would argue that McLaren would have better to have signed him rather than Raikkonen long term when they did. Or Montoya. Just a better fit for the team. And then we probably wouldn't have lost Monty to NASCRAP. Sigh! :-(

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 05 Aug 2009, 09:26

I'm not sure about beating Button into oblivion, but there's no doubt he's the sort of character that could win races without bottling it in the right car. Obviously he's not too far behind in terms of talent as you only need to have watch F1 for a while to figure that out.

In the current climate his stock should be fairly high, especially as the alternatives all seem to be about 12 years old.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 05 Aug 2009, 10:10

jackanderton wrote:I'm not sure about beating Button into oblivion, but there's no doubt he's the sort of character that could win races without bottling it in the right car. Obviously he's not too far behind in terms of talent as you only need to have watch F1 for a while to figure that out.

In the current climate his stock should be fairly high, especially as the alternatives all seem to be about 12 years old.

Yeah, I suppose I'd better admit I was being a tease there. But, honestly, I don't think Button is any better than Heidfeld in terms of pace and talent, and I honestly think Nick's steadfastness and coolness in the face of adversity would give him the upper hand over Jenson if things were anywhere worse than spot-on perfect.

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 06 Aug 2009, 10:57

News flash:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77572
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77574

I guess we won't be missing BMW in the near future. I really hope Sauber can line up in the starting grid in 2010 despite all the setbacks.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 08 Aug 2009, 17:32

Do people on here reckon we're likely to see the full 26 cars on the grid next year - either from a BMW buy-out, or one of the reserve teams - or does this mean we're down to 24?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 08 Aug 2009, 18:40

fjackdaw wrote:Do people on here reckon we're likely to see the full 26 cars on the grid next year - either from a BMW buy-out, or one of the reserve teams - or does this mean we're down to 24?

There will be twenty-six. The FIA has opened the selection process up again, but is only considering the seven reserve teams. Epsilon Euskadi and Prodrive seem to be the most likely contenders for sheer virtue of the fact that they're the only ones who have said anything.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 08 Aug 2009, 21:23

I hope Prodrive get the entry simply so I don't have to pronounce Epsilon Euskadi next season.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 08 Aug 2009, 22:04

That's good news!

I, on the other hand, hope it's Epsilon Euskadi - that's a classis Reject team name!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 Aug 2009, 00:46

Debaser wrote:I hope Prodrive get the entry simply so I don't have to pronounce Epsilon Euskadi next season.

Epp-sill-on Yew-ska-dee.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 09 Aug 2009, 09:11

Captain Hammer wrote:
Debaser wrote:I hope Prodrive get the entry simply so I don't have to pronounce Epsilon Euskadi next season.

Epp-sill-on Yew-ska-dee.

Not easy to rattle off in conversation is it? Prodrive are better for F1, though EE have the better reject prospects.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 09 Aug 2009, 11:24

Debaser wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
Debaser wrote:I hope Prodrive get the entry simply so I don't have to pronounce Epsilon Euskadi next season.

Epp-sill-on Yew-ska-dee.

Not easy to rattle off in conversation is it? Prodrive are better for F1, though EE have the better reject prospects.

Yes, one of the harder names to spell correctly. I'll probably just dump any sort of pronounciation and spell it like any other name in Finnish: just Epsilon Euskadi, that is.

And if they are chosen, they're more likely to reject than Prodrive would, considering that the team's experience is limited only to Formula Renault and Le Mans.