2011 Australian Grand Prix discussion thread

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 26 Mar 2011, 15:02

This is where the 107% Rule dies on its arse:

If all times for Q1 are removed and all drivers have to set a lap again to get into Q3, shouldnt Barrichello Also fail to qualify for not setting a lap in Q2?

Post by **tommykl** » 26 Mar 2011, 15:18

To not qualify, a car must have set a time over 107% of the fastest time in Q1. The same may apply in Q2 (though I'm not sure). However, the stewards can allow a non-qualifying car to race under exceptional circumstances (i.e. failing to set a time, but setting times quick enough to qualify in previous sessions).

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 26 Mar 2011, 15:23

Hispania could easily have done what Barichello did, yes I'm amazed they were BOTH able to set laps, laps that WEREN'T 17 seconds slow, and should be allowed to race, If Bernie is only going to fine them if they leave, why stop them from taking part. Whoever decided to bring this rule back has every right to go home as Colin Kolles.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 26 Mar 2011, 15:35

Looks like Hispania wont be racing.

Yes if it was 17 seconds slower then of course we should not let them qualfiy, but their times were better than the ones they set in 2010 at Bahrain where they were more "laughable".

Once again FOTA have to be thanked for not wanting to take to the 50 million budget capping rules. Because if they did, none of the new teams would look as crap. Well done you arseholes..

Post by **tommykl** » 26 Mar 2011, 15:45

After checking, Karthikeyan's best time was 110.54% of Vettel's Q1 time, while in the Bahrain GP last year, Chandhok's best time was 108.97% of Alonso's Q1 time. HRT are worse now than they were last year.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 26 Mar 2011, 15:55

ADx_Wales wrote:Once again FOTA have to be thanked for not wanting to take to the 50 million budget capping rules. Because if they did, none of the new teams would look as crap. Well done you arseholes..

Would you mind me offering a high-five to you? I can just fully agree with this sentiment.

Vepe · Post by **Vepe** » 26 Mar 2011, 16:22

Klon wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:Once again FOTA have to be thanked for not wanting to take to the 50 million budget capping rules. Because if they did, none of the new teams would look as crap. Well done you arseholes..

Would you mind me offering a high-five to you? I can just fully agree with this sentiment.

I also agree fully with that

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 26 Mar 2011, 18:38

I don't think HRT should race tomorrow but why are people being so harsh on them? If they don't have the cash what do you expect? Maybe you should direct the criticism at their marketing department. Or whatever they're using until they can afford a marketing department.

They need sponsors and investment. The actual organisation of the team in the face of major difficulties is not all that bad.

Plus this is F1Rejects- if we don't support them who will?!

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 26 Mar 2011, 18:47

I think they should race. Backmarkers lead to more overtakes.

LMP1 cars, especially the Diesels have no problem getting past the GT2s at le mans....although try saying that to Anthony Davidson.

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 26 Mar 2011, 19:01

mario wrote:Also, there is an interesting rumour now floating around about Red Bull's KERS system which might explain why Vettel didn't use his KERS, and why Webber was so reluctant to talk about it when asked why he didn't use it either. Asides from some very interesting pictures from Darren Heath of the Red Bull front wing still deflecting heavily (to the point of scraping the ground - which might explain why Kravitz saw signs of damage on both Webber and Vettel's wings in practise), he has also highlighted a tweet from James Allen about Red Bull's KERS. The rumour suggests that Red Bull have deliberately undersized their KERS battery system to save weight, effectively turning it into a "start only" device.

Now, that is an interesting suggestion, although you'd wonder why Red Bull would under size their batteries when the rules were modified to make packaging KERS more straightforward. That said, it would explain how Newey managed to package the RB7 so compactly when everybody else has had to increase their cooling intake sizes, and why Webber was so reluctant to discuss the charge status of his KERS after qualifying. At the very least, I'm not sure that I'd buy Vettel's excuse that "the system was not fully charged" - they are, I believe, running a derivative of the same Magnetti Marelli system Ferrari and Renault are using, and they didn't have any problems with a lack of charge in their systems.

In other words, a KERS system with essentailly no power supply and therefore lighter/aerodynamically effecient? Very sly. Wonder if, if thats the case, if there will be complaints if Red bull clock up lights to flag wins in the first 4 races?

As for the HRT and 107%, Id be interested to see how far off they were to Hamiltons (P2) time, seeing as Vettel was as good as a second quicker and would have probably been classed as "exceptional circumstances" in the past. I think that would probably be a fairer reflection in this case

Chewie · Post by **Chewie** » 26 Mar 2011, 19:08

Collieafc wrote:
mario wrote:Also, there is an interesting rumour now floating around about Red Bull's KERS system which might explain why Vettel didn't use his KERS, and why Webber was so reluctant to talk about it when asked why he didn't use it either. Asides from some very interesting pictures from Darren Heath of the Red Bull front wing still deflecting heavily (to the point of scraping the ground - which might explain why Kravitz saw signs of damage on both Webber and Vettel's wings in practise), he has also highlighted a tweet from James Allen about Red Bull's KERS. The rumour suggests that Red Bull have deliberately undersized their KERS battery system to save weight, effectively turning it into a "start only" device.

Now, that is an interesting suggestion, although you'd wonder why Red Bull would under size their batteries when the rules were modified to make packaging KERS more straightforward. That said, it would explain how Newey managed to package the RB7 so compactly when everybody else has had to increase their cooling intake sizes, and why Webber was so reluctant to discuss the charge status of his KERS after qualifying. At the very least, I'm not sure that I'd buy Vettel's excuse that "the system was not fully charged" - they are, I believe, running a derivative of the same Magnetti Marelli system Ferrari and Renault are using, and they didn't have any problems with a lack of charge in their systems.

In other words, a KERS system with essentailly no power supply and therefore lighter/aerodynamically effecient? Very sly. Wonder if, if thats the case, if there will be complaints if Red bull clock up lights to flag wins in the first 4 races?

As for the HRT and 107%, Id be interested to see how far off they were to Hamiltons (P2) time, seeing as Vettel was as good as a second quicker and would have probably been classed as "exceptional circumstances" in the past. I think that would probably be a fairer reflection in this case

But surely that isn't a KERS system? if all it consists of is a battery that they charge in the pits to give them a boost off the line it surely goes against the idea of KERS. It doesn't use brake force to charge the battery so isn't recovering any kenetic energy at all!

Newey is as slippery as a box of frogs.

Expect complaints from the teams lugging batteries around for the entire race.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 26 Mar 2011, 19:49

Collieafc wrote:As for the HRT and 107%, Id be interested to see how far off they were to Hamiltons (P2) time, seeing as Vettel was as good as a second quicker and would have probably been classed as "exceptional circumstances" in the past. I think that would probably be a fairer reflection in this case

They're still dreadfully slow. The only people Liuzzi beat the Q1 107% time of are PDR, Heidfeld and the Lotuses and Virgins.

Karthikeyan is only beating the times of other new teams.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 26 Mar 2011, 20:44

Chewie wrote:But surely that isn't a KERS system? if all it consists of is a battery that they charge in the pits to give them a boost off the line it surely goes against the idea of KERS. It doesn't use brake force to charge the battery so isn't recovering any kenetic energy at all

I think they charge it like everybody else with breaking energy. The only difference is, it is smaller, i.e. therefore not able to store as much energy at the advantage of allowing for an improved chassis. This allows RBR only to use KERS at the start.

Chewie · Post by **Chewie** » 26 Mar 2011, 21:01

Klon wrote:
Chewie wrote:But surely that isn't a KERS system? if all it consists of is a battery that they charge in the pits to give them a boost off the line it surely goes against the idea of KERS. It doesn't use brake force to charge the battery so isn't recovering any kenetic energy at all

I think they charge it like everybody else with breaking energy. The only difference is, it is smaller, i.e. therefore not able to store as much energy at the advantage of allowing for an improved chassis. This allows RBR only to use KERS at the start.

The report I read says it's charged in the pits before hitting the track; I'm sure we'll find out one way or another.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 26 Mar 2011, 21:06

This from BBC Iplayer:

Formula 1 - 2011 -
The Australian Grand Prix - Qualifying
Recommendthis episode (9)
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Jake Humphrey presents coverage of qualifying for the Australian Grand Prix. Jonathan Legard and Martin Brundle commentate on proceedings.

D'oh.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 26 Mar 2011, 21:30

Heidfeld should just go home. Useless numpty. Him and Liuzzi are well past their use by dates. Same may also apply to Rubens, that was a dumb mistake.

Pedestrian · Post by **Pedestrian** » 26 Mar 2011, 21:40

kostas22 wrote:Heidfeld should just go home. Useless numpty. Him and Liuzzi are well past their use by dates. Same may also apply to Rubens, that was a dumb mistake.

Who else thinks now that Renault should have stuck with Senna for the second seat?

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 26 Mar 2011, 22:02

Ayrton? oh yes , hands down.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 26 Mar 2011, 22:10

Anyone else get a distinct sense of deja vu in Q1 when the 107% qualifying time came up whilst the camera followed one of the HRTs round, with the graphic showing both of them miles away from the cut off? :lol:

For those who don't know I'm talking about this!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 26 Mar 2011, 22:13

Or maybe Marcos, La Liga is on international break right now so he would be free for this weekend's race at least.

watka · Post by **watka** » 26 Mar 2011, 22:15

First thoughts:

Vettel's lap was one of the most amazing laps I've ever seen.

Vettel as a driver is not 0.8 seconds faster than Webber. The car must be tailored heavily to Vettel's style.

Massa is a shadow of his former self.

McLaren were pretty impressive and maybe, just maybe have a chance in the race if they get the jump at the start and play their strategies right.

Perez was impressive, Petrov and Kobayashi even more so.

Di Resta was anonymous but the car is crap.

Heidfeld's 17th was unlucky, but he really needs to improve.

They must have made a mistake on the timing sheets because there's no way that Barrichello would have a spin like that, it must have been Maldonado. :oops:

S951 · Post by **S951** » 26 Mar 2011, 22:16

Heidfeld should of got a decent lap in no excuse but didn't his kers go kaput? how much is that usually worth a lap when its working and how much of a penalty is it just lugging it around for fun?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 26 Mar 2011, 22:18

S951 wrote:Heidfeld should of got a decent lap in no excuse but didn't his kers go kaput? how much is that usually worth a lap when its working and how much of a penalty is it just lugging it around for fun?

Well, Vettel and Hamilton did alright without working KERS, compared to their teammates. Granted, their cars are probably better to drive, and they are younger and quicker than Heidfeld, but he should've at least made Q2.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 26 Mar 2011, 22:52

kostas22 wrote:Heidfeld should just go home. Useless numpty. Him and Liuzzi are well past their use by dates. Same may also apply to Rubens, that was a dumb mistake.

Seconded, though I haven't given up on Rubens just yet.

Pedestrian wrote: Who else thinks now that Renault should have stuck with Senna for the second seat?

Seconded. I saw this coming the whole time.

A question to those who get BBC coverage. Does FOM broadcast the morning warm up? What exactly happens during it, anything of note?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 26 Mar 2011, 22:55

F1000X wrote:A question to those who get BBC coverage. Does FOM broadcast the morning warm up? What exactly happens during it, anything of note?

On the race morning? That doesn't happen anymore.

On an unrelated note, I dread to think how patronisingly patriotic the BBC's treatment of di Resta will get over the course the year. Maybe I'm ultra-sensitive to that kind of thing, I don't know.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 26 Mar 2011, 23:02

shinji wrote:
F1000X wrote:A question to those who get BBC coverage. Does FOM broadcast the morning warm up? What exactly happens during it, anything of note?
On the race morning? That doesn't happen anymore.

Thanks for the clarification.

watka · Post by **watka** » 26 Mar 2011, 23:15

shinji wrote:On an unrelated note, I dread to think how patronisingly patriotic the BBC's treatment of di Resta will get over the course the year. Maybe I'm ultra-sensitive to that kind of thing, I don't know.

He barely got mentioned during qualifying IIRC.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 26 Mar 2011, 23:17

watka wrote:
shinji wrote:On an unrelated note, I dread to think how patronisingly patriotic the BBC's treatment of di Resta will get over the course the year. Maybe I'm ultra-sensitive to that kind of thing, I don't know.

He barely got mentioned during qualifying IIRC.

When they were doing the grid run-down Humphreys said something along the lines of 'Very well done to Paul di Resta, showing up his team-mate'.

That's about it actually. I like to mountainise molehills.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 26 Mar 2011, 23:19

watka wrote:
shinji wrote:On an unrelated note, I dread to think how patronisingly patriotic the BBC's treatment of di Resta will get over the course the year. Maybe I'm ultra-sensitive to that kind of thing, I don't know.

He barely got mentioned during qualifying IIRC.

He's not English.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 26 Mar 2011, 23:24

Weather forcast: Sun, sun, sun and more sunshine! Looks like a dry race.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 26 Mar 2011, 23:34

JeremyMcClean wrote:Weather forcast: Sun, sun, sun and more sunshine! Looks like a dry race.

NOOOOOO

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 27 Mar 2011, 01:06

F1000X wrote:
shinji wrote:
F1000X wrote:A question to those who get BBC coverage. Does FOM broadcast the morning warm up? What exactly happens during it, anything of note?
On the race morning? That doesn't happen anymore.

Thanks for the clarification.

They haven't had a morning warm up in years, where the hell have you been hiding?

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 27 Mar 2011, 02:34

2002 was the last year of morning warm up.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 27 Mar 2011, 03:48

thehemogoblin wrote:
watka wrote:
shinji wrote:On an unrelated note, I dread to think how patronisingly patriotic the BBC's treatment of di Resta will get over the course the year. Maybe I'm ultra-sensitive to that kind of thing, I don't know.

He barely got mentioned during qualifying IIRC.

He's not English.

If he does well enough to merit it, I doubt mentions during the commentary will be a problem! They had quite a nice feature on him during the pre-qualifying show, with him doing various interviews for various shows around TVC!

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 27 Mar 2011, 04:55

ADx_Wales wrote:2002 was the last year of morning warm up.

Seriously? Well that's embarrassing, I thought the American coverage (which covers neither P1 or P3 was just skipping over it. I must have been thinking of Champcar and Indycar, who always had a morning warm-up.

Porrima · Post by **Porrima** » 27 Mar 2011, 05:28

Pilotoons is up to date on the current situation;

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 27 Mar 2011, 05:40

ADx_Wales wrote:Jonathan Legard and Martin Brundle commentate on proceedings.

D'oh.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 27 Mar 2011, 05:54

Legard is not commentating, just a poor message from the BBC about him.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 27 Mar 2011, 05:56

Thank God!

EDIT: Di Resta had a decent start, so did Petrov and Massa!

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 27 Mar 2011, 06:10

So let me get this straight....

The Automatic Catflap/Letterbox can only be used on the starting straight?!?!?!?
What was the bloody point.