2011 Chinese Grand Prix Discussion

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 17 Apr 2011, 08:47

Great race and Petrov once again in the points !

Good for mclaren that they won... i hope Ferrari will fix the problems the comming 3 weeks because this isn't correct at all !

Williams no comment.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 17 Apr 2011, 08:48

Btw, how come McLaren aren't wearing their fancy (but awful) driver suits?

And Jeremy, no offense intended, but it seems a lot of what you have said recently is rejectful!

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 17 Apr 2011, 08:52

Wizzie wrote:If Alonso isn't disqualified after that it'll be a right royal farce.

Well some arbitrary punishment is sure to come.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 17 Apr 2011, 08:53

Fantastic race, enjoyed it start to finish.

Also, Liuzzi in the HIspania in "Faster than a Red Bull" shocker!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Apr 2011, 08:59

Well, it certainly didn't last long. Perhaps Vettel is back to winning in the next GP but this streak is over. 2 stops wasn't the way to go it seems.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:05

shinji wrote:
Wizzie wrote:If Alonso isn't disqualified after that it'll be a right royal farce.

Well some arbitrary punishment is sure to come.

Actually, his DRS opened on the run to the final corner whilst stuck behind Schumacher midway through the race. I'm fairly certain the FIA will be taking a good long look at it.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:06

Wizzie wrote:
shinji wrote:
Wizzie wrote:If Alonso isn't disqualified after that it'll be a right royal farce.

Well some arbitrary punishment is sure to come.

Actually, his DRS opened on the run to the final corner whilst stuck behind Schumacher midway through the race. I'm fairly certain the FIA will be taking a good long look at it.

You think Ferrari International Assistance will? I personally don't think so

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:08

I don't think Alonso did this.
Don't forget you drive at a speed of 220 it is possible that the RSD just opens because of the force that's on it.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:08

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:You think Ferrari International Assistance will? I personally don't think so

If 2010 was anything to go by they MIGHT be Anti-Ferrari now.

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:09

Wizzie wrote:
shinji wrote:
Wizzie wrote:If Alonso isn't disqualified after that it'll be a right royal farce.

Well some arbitrary punishment is sure to come.

Actually, his DRS opened on the run to the final corner whilst stuck behind Schumacher midway through the race. I'm fairly certain the FIA will be taking a good long look at it.

I don´t if it´ll have any kind of effect TBH. First, it seems to be opened by a mistake rather than a will to get an advantage, second it was for a ridiculous ammount of time and third it didn´t have any practical effect.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:10

Wizzie wrote:
shinji wrote:
Wizzie wrote:If Alonso isn't disqualified after that it'll be a right royal farce.

Well some arbitrary punishment is sure to come.

Actually, his DRS opened on the run to the final corner whilst stuck behind Schumacher midway through the race. I'm fairly certain the FIA will be taking a good long look at it.

It is the second time in the row that he has problems with his DRS. Also, wasn't the DRS controlled by FIA in a way that its use is only unblocked when it was signalled to? If this is the case it is FIA fault and not Ferrari or Alonso.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:11

Jenson was supposed to come in a lap before he did as MW said to the BBC. That might have proven to be a bigger mistake than popping through the RBR pit box.
What a race though!

Post by **tommykl** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:15

I'd say Button isn't worthy of ROTR as much as an entry into the Hall of Shame under the Severe Brain Fade category.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:16

f1-gast wrote:I don't think Alonso did this.
Don't forget you drive at a speed of 220 it is possible that the RSD just opens because of the force that's on it.

You think Ferrari is completely aware of that?

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:16

YES!

That's not a regular shouting yes, but a full on Aussie roar yes!
Great drive by Webber.

Congrats to Hamilton, started the race in difficult circumstances almost not making the grid, great drive.

I'm liking the pirellis and the DRS. Every driver is overtaking another driver almost constantly.

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:20

Cynon wrote:
f1-gast wrote:I don't think Alonso did this.
Don't forget you drive at a speed of 220 it is possible that the RSD just opens because of the force that's on it.

You think Ferrari is completely aware of that?

Look i'm one of those Crazy Ferrari fan's that even support them if they don't score at all.
But im pretty sure Ferrari is aware of that, but their problem is that their sliding back to the 80's when this also happened.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:23

I've just discovered on countback Williams are STILL behind Team Lotus in the constructors championship. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

mediocre · Post by **mediocre** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:26

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:27

f1-gast wrote:I don't think Alonso did this.
Don't forget you drive at a speed of 220 it is possible that the RSD just opens because of the force that's on it.

The flap opens 'forward' - the drag force acts to keep it closed, not open it.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:29

Another good race. Sepang and now China.

Firstly I'll like to congratulate Hamilton on a great race. Also Webber did a brilliant race on his strategy to go on hard tires towards the beginning of race.

Good to see that Red Bull, Mclaren, Mercedes and Ferrari are all very competitive in race trim atleast and having a good battle. And also we did not see best from Renault, so we can see these 5 teams fighting it out in next few races.

Overtaking and tire management and pit strategies were just brilliant.

Also nice to see Williams finally finishing the race. All cars managing to finish the race except Algersauri whose wheel came lose.

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:30

J Washburn Stoker wrote:
f1-gast wrote:I don't think Alonso did this.
Don't forget you drive at a speed of 220 it is possible that the RSD just opens because of the force that's on it.

The flap opens 'forward' - the drag force acts to keep it closed, not open it.

Yes didn't recognize it.
in that case it's software failure.

tkcom · Post by **tkcom** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:32

Don't forget the top-notch job done by Hamilton's crew to get the car out before the pit closes. That's the real difference-maker.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:32

f1-gast wrote:
J Washburn Stoker wrote:
f1-gast wrote:I don't think Alonso did this.
Don't forget you drive at a speed of 220 it is possible that the RSD just opens because of the force that's on it.

The flap opens 'forward' - the drag force acts to keep it closed, not open it.

Yes didn't recognize it.
in that case it's software failure.

The ECUs are made by a joint-venture between McLaren and Microsoft aren't they? :lol:

McDuck · Post by **McDuck** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:38

Decent race. Somewhat artificial because of DRS, but decent.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:43

1. This is the most action packed F1 has ever been.
2. One more lap and Schumacher might have passed Alonso. After a compromised qualifying, there might still be life in the old man.
3. Two more laps and Webber might have passed Vettel. After a really compromised qualifying, he drove possibly the race of his career.

Post by **mario** » 17 Apr 2011, 09:46

F1000X wrote:Nothing can top that McLaren down the straight, if Lewis can get within a second, its over.

Correction, it's over.

Actually, checking the speed trap data, the McLaren duo were fairly slow down the back straight - it was the Renault team that were the fastest down the back straight, and comfortably so (Hamilton was 15th fastest, and Button 16th fastest).

tommykl wrote:I'd say Button isn't worthy of ROTR as much as an entry into the Hall of Shame under the Severe Brain Fade category.

In the post race forum, Coulthard and Humphrey asked one of the mechanics at Red Bull (the rear left tyre gun operator), who accused Button, quite seriously, of deliberately doing that in an attempt to disrupt Vettel's stop. I think that perhaps it's a bit of frustration from that mechanic, but it's an interesting comment to make...

f1-gast wrote:
Cynon wrote:
f1-gast wrote:I don't think Alonso did this.
Don't forget you drive at a speed of 220 it is possible that the RSD just opens because of the force that's on it.

You think Ferrari is completely aware of that?

Look i'm one of those Crazy Ferrari fan's that even support them if they don't score at all.
But im pretty sure Ferrari is aware of that, but their problem is that their sliding back to the 80's when this also happened.

If anything, the airflow should be pressing the flap closed, so I can't believe that would be the case. It's strange, though, that it should have happened, especially simply popping the flap open and shut like that probably would have given him little benefit, and maybe even hurt his performance if the airflow was detached from the rear wing.
I guess that the FIA will be interested in what happened; if it was accidental, that is a major concern - you wouldn't want that happening in a fast turn. If it was deliberate, then there is the question of why Alonso could use the system there when it should not have been armed. I wouldn't discount the possibility that it was not deliberate, though, given that others, especially Mercedes, have had occasional problems with the DRS malfunctioning or otherwise not returning to the default position.

tkcom wrote:Don't forget the top-notch job done by Hamilton's crew to get the car out before the pit closes. That's the real difference-maker.

True - they were frantically working on his car until about 30s before the start of the race, running around getting tissue paper to soak up all the fuel that had blocked up his air intake. They cut it fine, but did a good job to merely get him onto the grid - and to be fair to Lewes, he did very well to keep a level head amidst such chaos.

Libertango · Post by **Libertango** » 17 Apr 2011, 10:24

This too funny :

Sebastian Vettel says Red Bull will learn from its defeat at Shanghai, having admitted that two stops turned out to be the wrong strategy

Horner: Two-stop was right strategy

I don't think Horner was watching the same race!

TimmyB · Post by **TimmyB** » 17 Apr 2011, 10:37

The fact that this race had me, my wife and my father-in-law captivated (not F1 fans) speaks tonnes about this race.

First thing I need to do is work out when I'm going to get a chance to sit down and watch it again.

So proud of Webber, an absolutely stonking drive for the last 40 laps...

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 17 Apr 2011, 10:59

Whether you're a purist or not ... whether or not you think the Pirellis, KERS and DRS are too artificial ... if you didn't enjoy that then I'm not sure what kind of F1 you will enjoy.

The fact is, with 15 laps to go, with no pit stops left, the guys who were running 1st to 8th finished, respectively, 2nd, 6th, 5th, 1st, 4th, 7th, 3rd and 8th. And all that was done by on-track passing.

Simply stunning.

Oh, and P.S. ...

eytl wrote:I'll wait and see what happens this afternoon. But if Seb wins and Mark only scores a point or two, call me unfaithful if you like but I'm almost prepared to declare Mark's championship over.

Reports of Mark's championship demise are grossly premature.

patrick · Post by **patrick** » 17 Apr 2011, 11:08

adamcooperf1 Adam Cooper
#F1 Seems the Alonso/Ferrari DRS thing was a one off electronic glitch, not a concern for the FIA

A glitch that could have pitched him off the track at 150+ mp/h. Hmm

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 17 Apr 2011, 12:02

Very good race, I have to say. Very entertaining, even though there was only a single retirement. Which leads me into the next point. This is the second straight race where a Toro Rosso loses something on the track. This time, it was Alguersuari's wheel, and for those who didn't see it, it nearly hit some stewards hard. Toro Rosso deserves a big warning from the FIA.

Well, I am a bit disappointed that Massa couldn't even finish in the podium and Rosberg had to drop back; he looked really good and did a mess of Schumacher's as per usual!

Massa seems back on form and will give Alonso a hard time this year if he continues to drive this well. And congratulations to Hamilton for the win and to HRT for finishing the race and have solid race pace; if only they can get rid of Colin Kolles...

Williams seems on a downward spiral, Lotus is really closing in on them. This looks really ominous and Maldonado is being an absolute flop so far, kind of remembering a...what is the word I'm looking for? Oh, yes, A PAY DRIVER!

And hats off to Webber, only some seconds behind Vettel after qualifying 18th. Not bad for a second driver, eh?

TimmyB · Post by **TimmyB** » 17 Apr 2011, 12:03

The fact that he isn't here now suggests that ADx_Wales missed watching this race live.

I hope he'll regret it. (Which I speak in a light positive tone

)

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 17 Apr 2011, 12:26

Wow, what a great race! All of the gimmicks (KERS, DRS, Tyres, Fuel) came together brilliantly to produce a fun race that didn't seem too contrived. Very happy to see a non RBR winner and very happy to see Webber out-drive Vettel (even if he did finish behind). More points for Kobayashi too which is nice.

Disappointed with Button and Perez, two drivers I like very much had shockers.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 17 Apr 2011, 12:52

Terrible day for Jenson Button, it ought to have been his race today. Nice to see someone other than a Red Bull win, though.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 17 Apr 2011, 13:16

eytl wrote:Reports of Mark's championship demise are grossly premature.

Well, it's in a coma. Not that much better.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Apr 2011, 13:17

Perez apologises to Sutil over collision

I'm liking this kid more and more by the day.

Glennerz · Post by **Glennerz** » 17 Apr 2011, 13:28

Is it worth mentioning that we haven't seen heavy rain, a big smash or a safety car yet this season? I suppose it's irrelevant is the racing is as good as this

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 17 Apr 2011, 13:38

A comment in the China ROTR thread about how qualifying means very little now on the basis of Webber's race made me think about how it was broadly a similar case 30 years ago. Back then it didn't really matter where you ended up as tyre strategy, unreliabilty and the ability for a lot of overtaking meant positions could easily be made up. Now with tyres really mixing things up, the drivers find themselves in the same position once more. A couple of years ago, would we really have expected a top driver in a top car who qualified towards the back to have ended up on the podium? It would have been an impossibility that now is quite a straightforward reality. And the really exciting thing is, Mark didn't have KERS to make up those places, and the DRS alone is pretty useless, so it all points to the tyres being the dominant and almost exclusive factor in this situation.

F1 is much better value with tyres like this, and it wouldn't surprise me if other manufacturers have seen Pirelli's success and media coverage and fancy a slice of the pie themselves. Bridgestone really missed a trick with all of this and risk going down the same path in MotoGP as tyres seem ever more durable over there now when only a handful of years ago, compounds and tyre wear were a massive part of the race strategy, and were a key factor in Rossi's dominant performances, such was his ability to ride a bike on it's limit with shot tyres.

The supposed lack of importance now in qualifying however needs to be addressed because we can't end up with drivers just sitting around and not pushing because that's not what qualifying is about. The FIA need to ditch the rule forcing the top 10 to start on the tyres they qualify (it's not achieving much now anyway) and bring in some form of qualifying tyre, super sticky one lappers to ensure there is an incentive to qualify for the race representative to the performance of the cars.

Another thing I was left wondering about was the two compound rule. Initially I thought after the race today that F1 would be better without it. Vettel could have done a one or two stopper on perhaps some slightly more durable harder tyres whilst McLaren, Mercedes, etc could have tried a three stopper purely on softer tyres? But then there is always the issue that eventually everyone will end up on the same strategy regardless. With the two compound rule in place, it forces teams to use both, and with the fairly close wear rates, neither a two stop or a three stop was actually that clear cut as being the best, which is why we ended up with such a good race. So whilst I've always been a fairly strong advocate of removing the two compound rule, I think with the current Pirelli tyres, it might actually be in F1's best interests to leave it in place.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 17 Apr 2011, 14:03

Six different race leaders! More interesting than usual here, nicely done race.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Apr 2011, 15:07

Only now finished watching, maybe being on twitter and the forums is also a reason why I have looked down on F1 lately....

- Webber doing his utmost not to look like Johnny Dumfries within Red Bull

- Vettel too hard on Tyres or are the Tyres too hard on Vettel? Had he won that race would have still been good. Maybe the lack of communication between him and the pitwall caused Vettel's method of driving to change, maybe we wouldnt have had to suffer Vettel's victory toast

- But the compound difference is still wrong, why do both compounds last the same distance? It would be cheaper to make one species of slick tyre that lasts 2/3rds for everyones use.

- Apparently DRS is "Still a work in progress"

Why is it in F1 if it is a work in progress, when it should be trialed in something lower down (GP2 for instance?) before its use can be perfected? And it appers to work in the place where the overtake would no doubt happen had DRS not been there.

- Toro Rosso enhancing the fact that Red Bull scholarship drivers are good over one lap but rubbish during a race.

- Anyone else fed up of hearing how Di Resta has had an "Unusual" route into F1?

- Oh Jenson, in the shanghai sun all mechanics overalls are the same shadowy colour when your in a battle for position down the pit entry... Oh no its a complete disaster!!??? Its understandable.

- Rosberg leading the race is a classic example of how Ross Brawn is good at pit strategy, taken from his days back at Jag in Group C, when there were plenty of pitstops to be made, but it did leave me slightly confused and "what was the point of all that?" when he lost the lead.

- Better race this time around, better than Sepang, so in turn it was better than Melbourne*, Top 8 consisting of the "big 4" just to keep with that Codemasters level of consistency

, but this is how the big four should have appeard last year, possibly a bit less spread out than today though, Lotus now making a step into the suburbs of Midfield, Hispania getting across the line, thats more like it.

*why couldnt they get this right in the first two rounds?