2011 Spanish GP Discussion Thread

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 22 May 2011, 14:10

I think the lesson today is trying to beat Vettel in a straight fight through pace is a fool's bet.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 22 May 2011, 14:11

Breaking news, Hamilton, Button, Webber and Algersuari under investigation for not slowing under yellow flags, results therefore provisional

Also brownie points to BBC for their hilarious parody of the lovefilm adverts

S951 · Post by **S951** » 22 May 2011, 14:14

even if ham button and webber the main ones get punished it won't effect much will it? even if they got a time penalty or more like 5 place grid drop?!?!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 22 May 2011, 14:14

The first half of the race was not boring at all.

But at the end of the day, I am left with a bitter taste in my mouth. Despite the best efforts of Alonso and Hamilton, the status quo has been maintained.

Post by **mario** » 22 May 2011, 14:16

James1978 wrote:Oh go home you stupid Crazy Frog.

I did have to laugh at Alonso getting lapped though.

I didn't know that Prost was visiting the circuit today :lol:

True, it was perhaps in some ways frustrating that Vettel won yet again, and has extended his lead yet again. That said, judging by how out of breadth and tired he looked after the race, he had to work for it pretty hard.
Speaking of which, Hamilton was given full reign by McLaren (full credit to them for not reigning him in), and was using all of it - he was pressing him very hard, and to be fair to Vettel he held him off well through the traffic. Whilst it bodes reasonably well for the rest of the season that Hamilton was pretty close at the end of the race, Vettel's now the thick end of 41 points ahead of Hamilton - that's a hell of a gap he's built up.

eytl wrote:I can't believe what I'm hearing from Brundle and Coulthard. They're wondering why the Red Bull didn't run away with the race and praising McLaren as if they've caught up.

What utter nonsense and failure to understand what has happened in the last 2 hours. Because of Alonso's banzai start, Vettel was forced to make ultra-early stops to undercut. That left him with a tyre-wear problem which meant in the second half of the race he was in conservation mode, + no KERS. He had miles of pace he wasn't using/couldn't use. That's why Hamilton got close. And Hamilton did what Alonso and Webber couldn't - he drove the wheels off his car, got the necessary track position, and kept up with Vettel. But still the point is that no one tried to BEAT Vettel on strategy.

Vettel's KERS was not entirely inactive - he referred to that in the press conference, where he admitted that he was switching it off and on during the race (and radio transmissions from the team confirm that he did, at least for part of the latter stages of the race, have KERS).

sswishbone wrote:Breaking news, Hamilton, Button, Webber and Algersuari under investigation for not slowing under yellow flags, results therefore provisional

I'd assume that will be for either Heikki's accident, or Massa's. If it is the former, they might get away with it because they'd have had very little time to react to Heikki going off the track and causing the yellow flag. If it's Massa, that might be a little harder for them to argue against - though we'll see what the stewards say.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 22 May 2011, 14:17

Klon wrote:
eytl wrote:I can't believe what I'm hearing from Brundle and Coulthard. They're wondering why the Red Bull didn't run away with the race and praising McLaren as if they've caught up.

What utter nonsense and failure to understand what has happened in the last 2 hours. Because of Alonso's banzai start, Vettel was forced to make ultra-early stops to undercut. That left him with a tyre-wear problem which meant in the second half of the race he was in conservation mode, + no KERS. He had miles of pace he wasn't using/couldn't use. That's why Hamilton got close. And Hamilton did what Alonso and Webber couldn't - he drove the wheels off his car, got the necessary track position, and kept up with Vettel. But still the point is that no one tried to BEAT Vettel on strategy.

I am looking forward to getting complete lap time tables. I still don't think it was even possible to beat Vettel on strategy unless someone had willingly held back serious pace, if only because Vettel would have taken the necessary time to have a large enough advantage in free air and would have been able to use said advantage to save the car for a final battle (if needed) during the other stints. Once we have said lap times, we can form some scenarios with that.

I see where you're coming from, and you may well be right. Once Vettel got in front perhaps no-one could beat him on strategy. My deep frustration is that none of them even tried. By simply following suit on strategy they all destined themselves to defeat. Hamilton aimed for 2nd, got there, and then drove a mighty race to pressurise Vettel, but that's as much as you can say. Only Button dared to run his own race and for me he was the star of the race.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 22 May 2011, 14:18

sswishbone wrote:Breaking news, Hamilton, Button, Webber and Algersuari under investigation for not slowing under yellow flags, results therefore provisional

Well, Hamilton and Webber are probably far enough ahead of the next car so they won't drop, Button probably won't get a penalty unless Webber also does, and no one gives a bathplug about Algersuari.

So it shouldn't matter.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 22 May 2011, 14:19

ADx_Wales wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:I can't believe that people are saying it was boring, merely because the winner didn't work out like they'd hoped!

It wasnt boring, the rules have stopped that happening, but it wasnt brilliant, maybe thats what people were expecting, around Catalunya of all places(!)

What was it you enjoyed about this race that you found lacking in Malaysia?

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 22 May 2011, 14:29

Where is the Infinite Improbability thread? :?:

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 22 May 2011, 14:56

J Washburn Stoker wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:I can't believe that people are saying it was boring, merely because the winner didn't work out like they'd hoped!

It wasnt boring, the rules have stopped that happening, but it wasnt brilliant, maybe thats what people were expecting, around Catalunya of all places(!)

What was it you enjoyed about this race that you found lacking in Malaysia?

Did I say I enjoyed this race? I just said it wasnt boring.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 22 May 2011, 15:35

Breaking News...

COMMON SENSE HAS PREVAILED!!

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 22 May 2011, 15:50

ADx_Wales wrote:Did I say I enjoyed this race? I just said it wasnt boring.

Don't dodge the question.

You complained quite a bit about how boring Malaysia was. So what was different about this race that it "wasn't boring" for you? I genuinely want to know.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 22 May 2011, 16:25

No I fully understand, I didn't like the start of the season. And clearly I'm in a minority.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 22 May 2011, 16:33

I'm not the biggest of Hamilton fans, but it was a shame for the season that he couldn't get past Vettel.

Best Spanish Grand Prix for years, though.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 22 May 2011, 16:45

I haven't watched this race yet, will need to later. Especially after reading all of the posts.

Premier League is more important. Especially if your team is fighting relegation on the final day.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 22 May 2011, 17:16

redbulljack14 wrote:I haven't watched this race yet, will need to later. Especially after reading all of the posts.

Premier League is more important. Especially if your team is fighting relegation on the final day.

Europa League football but not even in the Prem...how do you feel now... :lol:

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 22 May 2011, 17:20

kostas22 wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:I haven't watched this race yet, will need to later. Especially after reading all of the posts.

Premier League is more important. Especially if your team is fighting relegation on the final day.

Europa League football but not even in the Prem...how do you feel now...

Clearly the best team in the league next season. :mrgreen:

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 22 May 2011, 17:34

I didn't really enjoy this race as much as the other ones, but admittedly, this was also the first race of 2011 I watched with the BBC commentary, and Brundle and Coulthard don't really get me as excited or interested as the Speed commentary...

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 22 May 2011, 18:06

It was a moderately entertaining race. For a Spanish GP that is. A lot of good fights, passing outside DRS (In Barcelona of all places) and a lot of quality drives (Heidfelds and Kamui's drives especially).

And as far as those who are shitting all over Vettel's win...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 22 May 2011, 18:18

I don't mind Vettel winning, I just despise the over-aggressive and plain dumb 'finger'. He looks like a complete retard!

McDuck · Post by **McDuck** » 22 May 2011, 19:06

This race entertained me.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 22 May 2011, 19:32

I'm relieved about the yellow flag trio - I had a horrible feeling they would get grid penalties for Monaco (since Alonso was lapped, any time penalties for Hamilton, Button and Webber would have had no effect as long as all three of them were guilty), which given the current climate just hands Vettel the race win on a plate!!!

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 22 May 2011, 20:52

Absolutely top class driving from both Hamilton and Vettel.

Vettel was mega on his outlap after the first stop, a lesser driver might have got held up and subsequently failed to clear Alonso. This silenced most of the doubts I had about Vettel's wheel to wheel racing ability, sure the cars were on old tires, but he made three passes in one lap, all of which were critical, fair and utterly ruthless. Withstood the late pressure from Hamilton well where a lesser driver might have made a small mistake, which I got the impression is all Hamilton would have needed.

Hamilton gets my plaudits for absolutely wringing everything out of that McLaren, after being so far behind in qualifying I didn't think anyone would get near the Red Bulls, but aside from the usual KERS issue (really its best to assume RBR won't have KERS these days) Vettel didn't have any real problems but was unable to break away in the second half of the race.

Blinding start by Alonso, nice tire preservation by Button, so a lot of good drives there today.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 22 May 2011, 20:54

ADx_Wales wrote:No I fully understand, I didn't like the start of the season. And clearly I'm in a minority.

Seriously ADx... At Malaysia you complained that there wasn't a battle for the win. Now there was and YET you complain... simply because the winner happened to be Vettel?
Pathetic.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 22 May 2011, 21:07

DonTirri wrote:
ADx_Wales wrote:No I fully understand, I didn't like the start of the season. And clearly I'm in a minority.

Seriously ADx... At Malaysia you complained that there wasn't a battle for the win. Now there was and YET you complain... simply because the winner happened to be Vettel?
Pathetic.

Well hang on, did he complain about that specifically and I missed it? He said the race "wasn't boring", the opposite of what he said of Malaysia. I only wanted him to explain why his opinion was reversed, not to single him out for having a minority opinion.

Edit: He still hasn't explained why he thought Spain was better (less boring?) than Malaysia.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 22 May 2011, 21:31

I expect nothing to happen at Barcelona, I expected something to happen in Malaysia, I expected Malaysia to be a tone-setter for the season after what I believed to be the dissapointment of a non-event that was Melbourne, It wasnt, it was just as bad (to me, you can say what you like, thats your opinion, you got something out of that race that I didnt, wel done). I dont regret my actions following Malaysia, I said I wouldnt watch the Chinese GP live, I didnt, what I regret is having to avoid twitter and forums like this just to find out how the race went when I saw it later.

If you've been watching F1 as long as I have its going to have "let you down" sooner or later.

That was for Mr Stoker.

Don, shoot me down by all means, but use some ammunition not fanboydom.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 22 May 2011, 21:38

DonTirri wrote:And as far as those who are shitting all over Vettel's win...

I hate to suggest something to make this not a family forum, but he's holding up the wrong finger.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 22 May 2011, 21:40

ADx_Wales wrote:I expect nothing to happen at Barcelona, I expected something to happen in Malaysia

Thanks, got it. That's all I was wondering.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 22 May 2011, 22:12

DonTirri wrote:

More liek HRTers gonna HRTe, amirite gaiz? :lol:

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 22 May 2011, 22:18

That was a decent race. I noticed in the results that Schumacher finally managed to beat Rosberg to the flag, does anyone know by how much? Really great to see the Sauber's both finishing in the points. Pastor going from hero back to zero. :roll:

The viscously aggressive passing on the back half of the track really made this race worth watching. If only Hamilton could have got by...

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 22 May 2011, 22:44

It was an okay race. But "The Finger" won again, so it's not really anything new this season.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 22 May 2011, 22:52

redbulljack14 wrote:I haven't watched this race yet, will need to later. Especially after reading all of the posts.

Premier League is more important. Especially if your team is fighting relegation on the final day.

Can we have that Carling Cup then? Because that fluke final loss killed our season and apparently didn't do yours any good. It might have been better for both sides if Koscielny didn't make his howler...

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 22 May 2011, 22:54

Cynon wrote:I didn't really enjoy this race as much as the other ones, but admittedly, this was also the first race of 2011 I watched with the BBC commentary, and Brundle and Coulthard don't really get me as excited or interested as the Speed commentary...

I'm going to say something shocking: The Chinese commentary didn't make me want to stab my ears out. They've improved massively from how they were a year ago and now are actually pretty knowledgeable. Even the lady they use to translate the radio messages (who used to really just make stuff up) seems to have an idea of the technical aspects of F1 now.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 23 May 2011, 02:13

I throughly enjoyed that race.

In addition to the great on track battles we enjoyed at the front. There was quite a few different strategy calls all throughout the field today, particularly in the midfield. So it was fascinating to keep an eye on how they panned out. I mean just look at the two different approaches by the two Renualt drivers. Both appear to be quite evenly match this year (remember their race in Turkey). Petrov on a more conventional strategy i.e. used up all their new tyres in Quali, to qualify higher up & struggle through the race. Compared to Heidfeld, on the infamous 'doing a Webber' type strategy.

Also fascinating to see how certain teams & drivers are dealing with all of this. i.e. Rubens had exactly the same strategy as Heidfeld, the same number of fresh tyres, & a car that didn't seem to be too far the pace of Renualt this weekend (judging by Pastor's Q3 performance). Yet Rubens finished 17th, where as Heidfeld finished 8th (supposedly a lap away from finishing 6th).

I am aware that during Rubens had problems during his 1st pitstop and then with KERS later on, which no doubt lost him some time. However 17th still seems like poor result all things consider. Which therefore suggests that certain strategies also requires the drivers to make it work for them. We also saw this with Seb Vettel having to make his strategy work for him, when he came out on fresh tyres in traffic & had to pass Button & Massa in the space of a lap. That was a crucial move for Seb that cleared him of Alonso & Mark Webber, which at the end of the day is what it's all about.

In addition to this, there was various other tactics drivers & teams were employing i.e. like undercutting, or Alonso & Webber trying to cover one another & how it hurt them towards the end of the race etc. Also learnt that RBR bluffed Webber's final stop in order to trick Ferrari into pitting early, which helped Webber get ahead of Alonso.

Also this race felt slightly less manic than Turkey, but still provided enough action to keep one engrossed throughout the whole afternoon, therefore similar to China. Which IMO appears to be a great balance.

I am loving F1 in 2011.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 May 2011, 06:40

F1000X wrote:That was a decent race. I noticed in the results that Schumacher finally managed to beat Rosberg to the flag, does anyone know by how much?.

0.87 seconds

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 May 2011, 08:14

I think it was a fine race, entertaining, but different from the previous ones. No overtaking galore due to the DRS not working, really. It only work in keeping the guy behind closer once he got himself within a second. Anyway, I had that feeling again when Hamilton was stalking Vettel. That all too familiar feeling of knowing that only a Vettel mistake would let Hamilton through. Vettel didn't had to defend that much. It was the same thing with Webber and Alonso battle except that finally Alonso got 2 seconds slower than Webber and it was inevitable. Oh well, one must realise that the fine balance between the overtaking galore (meaning people shooting past helpless people) and the "overtake only when the pal in front is about 2 seconds slower" will never be struck. This means that, this race together with Monaco, will make me looking forward to the Canadian GP.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 23 May 2011, 09:45

Sauber010 wrote:I part of me just died when I heard Seb's post-race radio.

kostas22 wrote:This seasons makes me ashamed to think I was once a Vettel fan (STR days, everyone likes the underdogs). Especially that team radio. Is he 6 years old or something?
Bathplug you Vettel, bathplug you.

...followed by the bath taps, the shower curtain, a load of towels, the bog brush, all the tiles on the wall, and finally, the bath itself. That frog was dead and buried until yesterday! Why exhume the corpse of something that nobody with a brain should ever have found amusing?

DonTirri wrote:And as far as those who are shitting all over Vettel's win...

This picture needs to be killed, and not just with fire.

It contains Comic Sans!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 May 2011, 09:51

dinizintheoven wrote:
Sauber010 wrote:I part of me just died when I heard Seb's post-race radio.

kostas22 wrote:This seasons makes me ashamed to think I was once a Vettel fan (STR days, everyone likes the underdogs). Especially that team radio. Is he 6 years old or something?
Bathplug you Vettel, bathplug you.

...followed by the bath taps, the shower curtain, a load of towels, the bog brush, all the tiles on the wall, and finally, the bath itself. That frog was dead and buried until yesterday! Why exhume the corpse of something that nobody with a brain should ever have found amusing?

DonTirri wrote:And as far as those who are shitting all over Vettel's win...

This picture needs to be killed, and not just with fire.

It contains Comic Sans!

It is a damn shame we have an uncool champion. Kimi were are you?

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 23 May 2011, 09:57

DanielPT wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:
Sauber010 wrote:I part of me just died when I heard Seb's post-race radio.

kostas22 wrote:This seasons makes me ashamed to think I was once a Vettel fan (STR days, everyone likes the underdogs). Especially that team radio. Is he 6 years old or something?
Bathplug you Vettel, bathplug you.

...followed by the bath taps, the shower curtain, a load of towels, the bog brush, all the tiles on the wall, and finally, the bath itself. That frog was dead and buried until yesterday! Why exhume the corpse of something that nobody with a brain should ever have found amusing?

DonTirri wrote:And as far as those who are shitting all over Vettel's win...

This picture needs to be killed, and not just with fire.

It contains Comic Sans!

It is a damn shame we have an uncool champion. Kimi were are you?

I'd said Kimi is most likely down the pub, trying to steer clear of Sutil who is seeking revenge for Monaco 2008. :lol:

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 23 May 2011, 11:56

DanielPT wrote:
dinizintheoven wrote:
Sauber010 wrote:I part of me just died when I heard Seb's post-race radio.

kostas22 wrote:This seasons makes me ashamed to think I was once a Vettel fan (STR days, everyone likes the underdogs). Especially that team radio. Is he 6 years old or something?
Bathplug you Vettel, bathplug you.

...followed by the bath taps, the shower curtain, a load of towels, the bog brush, all the tiles on the wall, and finally, the bath itself. That frog was dead and buried until yesterday! Why exhume the corpse of something that nobody with a brain should ever have found amusing?

DonTirri wrote:And as far as those who are shitting all over Vettel's win...

This picture needs to be killed, and not just with fire.

It contains Comic Sans!

It is a damn shame we have an uncool champion. Kimi were are you?