2011 Monaco Grand Prix Discussion Thread

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 27 May 2011, 06:25

S951 wrote:chandock awesome cometary as usual

Love this quote from him:

"We have a real fight on for pole as Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull all look very competitive as does Nico Rosberg's Mercedes"

There, there Schumi!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 27 May 2011, 07:13

107% time: 1:20.382.

Karithikeyan's over 1.6 seconds slower than the mark.

Post by **mario** » 27 May 2011, 08:21

Wizzie wrote:107% time: 1:20.382.

Karithikeyan's over 1.6 seconds slower than the mark.

That is a little concerning for HRT - because the gap in performance between the harder and softer compounds is smaller this weekend, as is the circuit as a whole, the time difference between the two compounds has shrunk. The talk so far has been of a time difference of about 1.2s between the harder and softer compounds, so in theory they might not be safe in Q1 even if the top teams are running the harder tyre.

That said, it did seem that HRT were doing their practise runs quite early in the session, so the times might be a little misleading due to improved track conditions (mainly debris being cleared away here, which has more of an effect here than rubbering in seems to be having). I doubt that HRT really are three seconds a lap behind Virgin Racing (the next slowest team) on pure pace alone, when the gap has been nothing like as large earlier in the season.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 27 May 2011, 17:42

F1000X wrote:Could Ferrari's lack of downforce be down to the loss of the double decker diffuser, and/or an inferior blown diffuser system?

I think it's quite likely, particularly in qualifying.

Post by **mario** » 27 May 2011, 18:52

Ed24 wrote:
F1000X wrote:Could Ferrari's lack of downforce be down to the loss of the double decker diffuser, and/or an inferior blown diffuser system?

I think it's quite likely, particularly in qualifying.

It certainly won't be helping, although this season the F150th Italia seems to have more problem with understeer - we have seen both drivers struggling to get the front end into the corner, especially on an outlap when the tyres are slightly under temperature.
As both Brundle and Coulthard have pointed out, part of that is the tendency for the teams to have slight understeer on fresh tyres to counteract the fact that the rear tyres wear out quicker, causing oversteer. But, even allowing for that, it just doesn't quite seem to be as responsive as other cars, especially McLaren (the front end of the MP4-26, like its predecessor, do seem to turn in very well - McLaren must have a pretty good suspension set up there).

Another amusing quote, although I seem to have lost it for now, was Newey trying to justify the retarded ignition maps by claiming that they were originally designed as a way of cooling the engine exhaust valves to prevent them overheating. The thing is, when he was talking about it, I could not help but think of another situation in the past where a claimed cooling mechanism just conveniently happened to increase downforce...

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 28 May 2011, 01:15

Phoenix wrote:I disagree - the Ferrari doesn't lack downforce at all. Last year only the Red Bull produced more downforce than Ferrari, and Ferrari's low was on the races where they were trying to make the F-duct and blown diffuser to work. And this car is no exception - it's just that they've been very conservative with its approach to this year's contender.

I'm not so sure about that. The Ferrari landed between the McLaren and Red Bull in terms of downforce last year, but what I think the Ferrari really had the edge over the McLaren and Red Bull in was mechanical grip. The Red Bull was pure aerodynamics and the McLaren was a dragster.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 28 May 2011, 02:19

mario wrote:But, even allowing for that, it just doesn't quite seem to be as responsive as other cars, especially McLaren (the front end of the MP4-26, like its predecessor, do seem to turn in very well - McLaren must have a pretty good suspension set up there).

Another amusing quote, although I seem to have lost it for now, was Newey trying to justify the retarded ignition maps by claiming that they were originally designed as a way of cooling the engine exhaust valves to prevent them overheating. The thing is, when he was talking about it, I could not help but think of another situation in the past where a claimed cooling mechanism just conveniently happened to increase downforce...

The McLaren seems to be running a stiffer front end suspension wise than other cars. They seemed to be bouncing all over the place under braking in Turkey. That would also explain why they're turning in quicker, seem to be less consistent than the Ferraris (needs the track surface to be smoother to work), and has a tendency to lock up under braking (less droops plus less compliance in the suspension causing the tires to have less grip under bumps).

As for Newey's statement, well, my publicocrapometer just exploded.

Malinth · Post by **Malinth** » 28 May 2011, 06:09

I can't help but feel it will be another Vettel walkover, which would be bloody awful, but hopefully someone like Nico can spring a surprise. A Petrov victory would definitely be welcome by me!

Malinth

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 28 May 2011, 08:01

Hmm, I'm 9 races into the 1999 CART season, just finished watching Cleveland. That has to be one of the greatest races I have ever seen, and I can't help but feel I'm going to be very underwhelmed by this race. If it turns into another Vettel snorefest, I'm going back into my room to move on to Road America.

Anyway, enough ranting, I'm rather worried about HRT. Hopefully they'll be able to find some pace in a few hours time, because it would be rather epic if HRT doesn't make the Monaco grid, when a certain Roberto Moreno qualified an Andrea Moda!

I think Nico has an outside chance of winning, and I'll be delighted if it indeed happens. For some reason, I'd like to see Herr Michael on the podium as well. Perhaps I feel a bit sympathetic to his cause. Afterall, Stefan Bellof is (allegedly) his idol. Pastor for a podium place? Or even more extreme, the win!? :lol:

Malinth · Post by **Malinth** » 28 May 2011, 08:06

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Hmm, I'm 9 races into the 1999 CART season, just finished watching Cleveland. That has to be one of the greatest races I have ever seen, and I can't help but feel I'm going to be very underwhelmed by this race. If it turns into another Vettel snorefest, I'm going back into my room to move on to Road America.

You can't help but feel that Juan was given the same treatment in 1999 as Vettel is getting today. It was especially emphasized at Nazareth, I think, when nobody wanted him to get 4 in a row. The Cleveland race was fantastic, but was a bit disappointed to see Herta make that mistake near the end. Also wanted to see Little Al on the podium!

Malinth

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 28 May 2011, 09:10

Rosberg's just had the biggest accident so far this season.

Malinth · Post by **Malinth** » 28 May 2011, 09:12

Wizzie wrote:Rosberg's just had the biggest accident so far this season.

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. What happened? (It's times like this when I bloody hate Star Sports for not showing FP)

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 28 May 2011, 09:14

Malinth wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Rosberg's just had the biggest accident so far this season.

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. What happened? (It's times like this when I bloody hate Star Sports for not showing FP)

Lost it at the bump before the harbourfront chicane, hit the wall hard and damaged all 4 corners of the car. There's no way that car will be repaired before qualy. :cry:

Rosberg himself is fine though.

EDIT: Just switched to an online TV feed to see a replay and it was almost a carbon copy of Wurz's crash back in 1998.

J Washburn Stoker · Post by **J Washburn Stoker** » 28 May 2011, 09:17

I was expecting a mechanical failure but from what I can see, it looks like he lost the rear going over the crest from the tunnel down to Nouvelle chicane, spun the nose straight into the wall and made the car fall apart into lots of tiny pieces.

Malinth · Post by **Malinth** » 28 May 2011, 09:17

Wizzie wrote:
Malinth wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Rosberg's just had the biggest accident so far this season.

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. What happened? (It's times like this when I bloody hate Star Sports for not showing FP)

Lost it at the bump before the harbourfront chicane, hit the wall hard and damaged all 4 corners of the car. There's no way that car will be repaired before qualy.

Rosberg himself is fine though.

That's a mighty shame, was hoping that he could be a dark horse for pole position, or at least a front row start. Good to hear he's fine though.

Malinth

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 May 2011, 09:27

Noooo, damn it!
Last year, we at least had a certain Kubica as a dark horse in the Renault R30. This year it could have been Rosberg as the R31 doesn't seem to be better on slow tracks seeing the FP results so far...

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 28 May 2011, 09:31

Terrible news regarding Britney (though we can't really call him that anymore), but hopefully someone like Kamui can spring a surprise.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 May 2011, 09:35

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Terrible news regarding Britney (though we can't really call him that anymore), but hopefully someone like Kamui can spring a surprise.

Maldonado? :lol:

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 28 May 2011, 09:36

Shizuka wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Terrible news regarding Britney (though we can't really call him that anymore), but hopefully someone like Kamui can spring a surprise.

Maldonado?

He's already springing a surprise. He hasn't hit the wall once so far this weekend. :lol:

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 28 May 2011, 09:37

Shizuka wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Terrible news regarding Britney (though we can't really call him that anymore), but hopefully someone like Kamui can spring a surprise.

Maldonado?

True, he might just stick it on pole! :lol:

GroupLotusRenault · Post by **GroupLotusRenault** » 28 May 2011, 09:40

mario wrote:
Ed24 wrote:
F1000X wrote:Could Ferrari's lack of downforce be down to the loss of the double decker diffuser, and/or an inferior blown diffuser system?

I think it's quite likely, particularly in qualifying.

It certainly won't be helping, although this season the F150th Italia seems to have more problem with understeer - we have seen both drivers struggling to get the front end into the corner, especially on an outlap when the tyres are slightly under temperature.
As both Brundle and Coulthard have pointed out, part of that is the tendency for the teams to have slight understeer on fresh tyres to counteract the fact that the rear tyres wear out quicker, causing oversteer. But, even allowing for that, it just doesn't quite seem to be as responsive as other cars, especially McLaren (the front end of the MP4-26, like its predecessor, do seem to turn in very well - McLaren must have a pretty good suspension set up there).

Another amusing quote, although I seem to have lost it for now, was Newey trying to justify the retarded ignition maps by claiming that they were originally designed as a way of cooling the engine exhaust valves to prevent them overheating. The thing is, when he was talking about it, I could not help but think of another situation in the past where a claimed cooling mechanism just conveniently happened to increase downforce...

Massa was having huge oversteer problems in Spain and this weekend. Is it the way he sets up his car or does the F150 italia suffer from both under and over steer?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 28 May 2011, 09:56

Tonio... why are you still in F1? :lol:

Post by **mario** » 28 May 2011, 10:01

I'll answer the other questions later, but more importantly Liuzzi has smashed into the tyre barrier at St. Devote after the back end of the car snapped out of him midway through the corner. He's wrecked the back end of the car very badly (the rear left suspension disintegrated completely), which seems to have caught the eye of the stewards (questioning why the rear end collapsed so quickly).
Perhaps worryingly for Liuzzi, Davidson reckons that HRT might not be able to repair the car in time, due to the heavy damage and because it happened so late in the session. If so, given that Liuzzi has not been within 107% of the fastest times, and he doesn't set a time in Q1, we could see him DNQ'ing unless the stewards do find some "exceptional circumstance" to cite.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 28 May 2011, 10:06

mario wrote:we could see him DNQ'ing unless the stewards do find some "exceptional circumstance" to cite.

You mean like Liuzzi slipping the stewards 50 quid.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 28 May 2011, 10:12

Alonso's FP3 time: 1:14.433
107% time: 1:19.643

Both HRTs atleast half a second slower than the mark.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 28 May 2011, 10:26

Initial thoughts after FP3;

Where's Hamilton's pace gone? BBC 5 live commentary talked about him unhappy with the Toe In angle of the car, suggesting probs with car setup rather than Lewis hiding his true pace. I hope they get it sorted before quali, as he should be a contender.

Renualt very disappointing, they didn't improve their time on the option tyres either. Is it the car or drivers underperforming. I suspect both (Heidfeld has been particularly disappointing in quali so far this year).

Vettel fastest lap was on the primes tyres (he did go out on the options in the last two minute, but hit traffic so didn't improve) & he is 0.8 secs slower than Alonso. Apparently the advantage of new options of new primes is circa 1.3 seconds. So provided Vettel can get it together, he should be in the mix. The really interesting thing is where will Webber be, as he needs a good result.

Torro Rosso looking best of the rest after the big 4. Maldonado looked like an accident waiting to happen for me & Luizzi just go home, & take Colin Kolles with you.

Post by **mario** » 28 May 2011, 10:49

redbulljack14 wrote:
mario wrote:we could see him DNQ'ing unless the stewards do find some "exceptional circumstance" to cite.

You mean like Liuzzi slipping the stewards 50 quid.

It might have to be a bit more than that - as Wizzie points out, neither HRT have been within 107% of the fastest times during practise, so it will be hard for them to claim that Liuzzi was incapable of setting a time within 107% because of unexpected events.
Karthikeyan, too, looks like he is in trouble - he might just be saved if nobody risks using a set of super soft tyres in Q1, and here Rosberg's accident might just save him. If Rosberg's car cannot be repaired in time (and he hit the barriers quite hard), then he'll definitely be out of Q1 and the other teams are unlikely to waste a set of super softs (perhaps the lower end of the midfield might, since Heikki looks like he is close enough to capitalise on any small errors). In that case, the times are likely to be closer to 1m15's, so the 107% lap time is likely to be around a 1m20 lap - that might be within Karthikeyan and HRT's reach, but it could well be tight.

ibsey wrote:Initial thoughts after FP3;

Where's Hamilton's pace gone? BBC 5 live commentary talked about him unhappy with the Toe In angle of the car, suggesting probs with car setup rather than Lewis hiding his true pace. I hope they get it sorted before quali, as he should be a contender.

Renualt very disappointing, they didn't improve their time on the option tyres either. Is it the car or drivers underperforming. I suspect both (Heidfeld has been particularly disappointing in quali so far this year).

Vettel fastest lap was on the primes tyres (he did go out on the options in the last two minute, but hit traffic so didn't improve) & he is 0.8 secs slower than Alonso. Apparently the advantage of new options of new primes is circa 1.3 seconds. So provided Vettel can get it together, he should be in the mix. The really interesting thing is where will Webber be, as he needs a good result.

Torro Rosso looking best of the rest after the big 4. Maldonado looked like an accident waiting to happen for me & Luizzi just go home, & take Colin Kolles with you.

It's especially odd that Hamilton is struggling when yesterday he seemed quite happy with his car - the fact that Button set a pretty good lap time suggests that perhaps Hamilton went the wrong way on a late set up change.

But the biggest disappointment is Renault - from their performances at the start of the year, their competitiveness has nosedived sharply since then. This is a circuit where they were expected to do well, since the R31 looked to have good mechanical grip and a very driveable engine - but compared to last year, neither driver looks like being able to spring a surprise. Yes, I know that some might be calling for Kubica louder than ever, but I doubt this is just about the drivers, but partially the car itself.

Post by **mario** » 28 May 2011, 11:47

Right, quick update before Q1 - Liuzzi is definitely not starting, as HRT are currently not working on his car and it is still far from complete (they had just one mechanic slowly bolting on a new front suspension arm). By contrast, Mercedes are working furiously on Rosberg's car, and they think that they might be able to finish the work before the end of the session, but it is looking like a 50:50 situation.

S951 · Post by **S951** » 28 May 2011, 12:10

looks like we have some DQs today times are just coming right down thick and fast

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 May 2011, 12:16

Trulli 17th atm. Might we see another happening of a Lotus in Q2?

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 28 May 2011, 12:21

Shizuka wrote:Trulli 17th atm. Might we see another happening of a Lotus in Q2?

Nope.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 May 2011, 12:21

"Awww maaaaan!"

But Maldonado finished 4th in Q1. Soft tyre I guess.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 28 May 2011, 12:23

Lotus are definitely making progress, not too far off. The saurus also only about a tenth quicker than Glock. Not expecting to see Force Indias or Toro Rossos in Q3, Williams may creep in with a huge amount of luck.

Post by **Londoner** » 28 May 2011, 12:28

mario wrote:Right, quick update before Q1 - Liuzzi is definitely not starting, as HRT are currently not working on his car and it is still far from complete (they had just one mechanic slowly bolting on a new front suspension arm). By contrast, Mercedes are working furiously on Rosberg's car, and they think that they might be able to finish the work before the end of the session, but it is looking like a 50:50 situation.

Rosberg did indeed get the car out, and outpaced Schumi on his first flying lap!

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 May 2011, 12:42

Brundle just mocked DC because how he pronounces Heidfeld. Priceless.
Seems like Maldonado might get into Q3 again!

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 28 May 2011, 12:43

Shizuka wrote:Brundle just mocked DC because how he pronounces Heidfeld. Priceless.
Seems like Maldonado might get into Q3 again!

And he does! Wahoo!

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 28 May 2011, 12:44

ibsey wrote:Torro Rosso looking best of the rest after the big 4.

Not anymore :lol:

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 May 2011, 12:50

Toro Rosso can't seem to go forward and stay in one place in the pecking order.
Right now it seems Renault doesn't seem to have mechanical grip, which was their strong point last year: No Renaults in Q3.
Perez is showing a very good form, I didn't expect him to do a Q3. Maldonado: since he is a Monaco specialist, it was kinda expected.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 28 May 2011, 12:51

"Kobayashi: the disappointment of the year"

I just love the Hungarian F1-show...

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 28 May 2011, 12:52

QuickYoda41 wrote:"Kobayashi: the disappointment of the year"

I just love the Hungarian F1-show...

I feel your pain, fellow Hungarian. I hate the Hungarian commentary. No Palik, no RTLK.