Grand Prix Rejects

Cynon wrote:

Dj_bereta wrote:This is bad for Da Costa.

Also, this bad for Vergne as well, because Red Bull still have hopes for Da Costa and if Vergne don't beat Kvyat by a high margin, he will be sacked for sure.

I'm interpreting this as Red Bull giving Da Costa one last shot against Sainz, Jr. -- and that it will be a contest between Da Costa and Sainz, Jr. for Vergne's seat. If anything, it could be worse for Vergne, because he's being used as a yardstick to measure Kvyat. If Vergne, however, destroys Kvyat and makes a hero of himself in 2014... then it might be a VERY interesting year at STR... so I think we might see a more desperate, aggressive Vergne. I hope so, anyway, there needs to be something exciting about STR's on track performances.

Their on track performances have been exciting at some point, but they were too inconsistent to notice in my opinion. It's slightly a case of "The dealer is prepared to offer you" in terms of the TV directors.

I know that was a ripoff of the American TV show "Picked Off"

Well... I can safely say I wasn't expecting Kvyat to be in the second Toro Rosso seat.

With that being said, this is what everyone said of Alguersuari when he came in 2009 and he impressed some people. I just hope he doesn't end up like Alguersuari and get the sack early in his career.

With STR keeping Vergne I'm glad they had some sort of consistency with their driver lineup, having someone with experience in a team to guide and to perhaps help out more with regards to the new regs in 2014.

Aerospeed wrote:With that being said, this is what everyone said of Alguersuari when he came in 2009 and he impressed some people. I just hope he doesn't end up like Alguersuari and get the sack early in his career.

At least at the time there wasn't a Red Bull Junior driving at a higher level than Alguersuari.

JEV seems to be in a bit of a lose-lose situation really. Do badly against Kvyat and he'll be sacked. Do well against Kvyat and it's expected, and he'll be sacked. Do really well for a Toro Rosso driver and blow people away - unless Vettel is leaving Red Bull, there's not a seat for him, and even if Vettel does leave, Red Bull will probably look to get a top-tier driver (e.g. Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso) in for the sponsorship reasons. So he'll either have to get a seat elsewhere, or stay at Toro Rosso for another year, and face the exact same risk of the sack again.

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

Ataxia wrote:There is now an F1 driver younger than me. I feel like a failure somehow...

So? That's okay. Once all the drivers are younger than you, that's when it's time to freak out.

Such as the opening race of the 2014 season. Or maybe earlier if Mark Webber ragequits before this year's out.

A shame for Da Costa but his less than stellar year at FR3.5 cost him dearly. I think his only chance is to go to GP2 and win that thing while at the same time gather some sponsorship, otherwise his F1 career looks to be over before it started...

As for Kvyat, I am afraid he is in for a very difficult year, Bottas style. His only chance is to match Vergne regularly...

DanielPT wrote:A shame for Da Costa but his less than stellar year at FR3.5 cost him dearly. I think his only chance is to go to GP2 and win that thing while at the same time gather some sponsorship, otherwise his F1 career looks to be over before it started...

If he did it would be quite something, as no one has won GP2 in their debut season since Nico Hulkenberg in 2009. And I don't fancy his chances, looking at his previous achievements, against drivers who have GP2 experience.

LOOK! This new driver is nothing more than a hoodie-wearing-Solntsevskaya-bratva-hooligan!

CoopsII wrote:
LOOK! This new driver is nothing more than a hoodie-wearing-bratva-hooligan!

Like Red Bull's ex-protegees Christian Klien and Tonio Liuzzi, although they had more of a reputation for wearing jewelry.

Kids are gradually taking over this sport......I've never even heard of this Kyvat character!!

dinizintheoven wrote:

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

Ataxia wrote:There is now an F1 driver younger than me. I feel like a failure somehow...

So? That's okay. Once all the drivers are younger than you, that's when it's time to freak out.

Such as the opening race of the 2014 season. Or maybe earlier if Mark Webber ragequits before this year's out.

I'm already older than ALL of the drivers, and even 1 of the bosses - Claire Williams was born in 1976. Christian Horner is also only approx. 6 months older than me ...

Apparently Kvyat impressed the team with his technical feedback during the YDT. Anyone find this slightly suspicious? He could be talented but just how amazing can his feedback be based on experience?

Of course, he could be a natural, but more likely Da Costa ran over someone's dog. Or suggested a mexican wave is better. ;)

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Apparently Kvyat impressed the team with his technical feedback during the YDT. Anyone find this slightly suspicious? He could be talented but just how amazing can his feedback be based on experience?

Of course, he could be a natural, but more likely Da Costa ran over someone's dog. Or suggested a mexican wave is better.

There are already cynics who are putting about rumours that Kyvat is only getting the position because of commercial backing from Russian investors - something which I am a little wary of given that Red Bull is hardly short of sponsors (they are one of the few teams that is making a profit, albeit a small one, in F1 right now).

If anything, I find it a little worrying that, amongst some fan forums (that shall remain unnamed), the automatic assumption seems to be "He is Russian, therefore he must be a pay driver". Kyvat currently doesn't even have any personal sponsors, yet a few unsubstantiated rumours of sponsorship have lead the fans to automatically start ranting that he is only there because of his money.

If you look down the list of potential candidates that Red Bull could draw on from their Junior Team, there are realistically only a few drivers that you would look at - da Costa, Kyvat, Blomqvist and Sainz Jr (i.e. the four drivers in the highest junior ranks).
Out of those four drivers, Blomqvist only finished 7th in the European F3 championship and failed to win a single race, whilst Sainz Jr is only 9th in GP3, also failed to win a single race and has around half the number of points that his team mate, Kyvat, has this season (66 points versus 131), whilst Kyvat is currently 2nd in GP3 and potentially on course to win the title at his first attempt.

The main alternative would be da Costa - however, we have seen that, over the course of the year, he has come in for criticism for his performance and there have been rumours that Red Bull have been dissatisfied with his performance in FR3.5 this season. Perhaps Red Bull felt that he wasn't putting in as much effort as he should given the assumption that he would effectively get the second seat at Toro Rosso by default? Either way, I think that it is a little early to throw around accusations of being a pay driver when there is no evidence for that at the moment.

First of all, congratulations to Kvyat. He has been really impressive in the second half of the GP3 season. However, I wonder if Formula 1 comes a bit too early for him. I think he is the least experienced driver since Kimi Räikkönen to join Formula 1, considering he only started his single-seater career in 2010, and never drove in FR3.5 or GP2.

I hope he doesn't become the next Alguersuari, who also joined Formula 1 at the age of 19, but his career was over only two years later. I think one reason for Kvyats promotion to Formula 1 is the lack of other candidates in the Red Bull Junior team - da Costa had a quite weak season in Formula Renault, compared to last year, and the other Red Bull juniors have even less experience than Kvyat.

Whilst there is a high level of surprise about Kyvat's appointment I don't think anyone is really criticising the decision, which is quite right. We all know the Toro Rosso is to take on drivers at his sort of age and level and out of all of the Red Bull proteges and he's probably done best in his respective series, so with that in mind it makes sense. I almost see Toro Rosso as purely a support team for Red Bull, its pretty much irrelevant to them where they finish in the WCC. If it was a team other than Toro Rosso then I would expect people to have more serious doubts ala Sirotkin (who, on an aside, is definitely there because of his money unlike Kyvat).

watka wrote:Whilst there is a high level of surprise about Kyvat's appointment I don't think anyone is really criticising the decision, which is quite right. We all know the Toro Rosso is to take on drivers at his sort of age and level and out of all of the Red Bull proteges and he's probably done best in his respective series, so with that in mind it makes sense. I almost see Toro Rosso as purely a support team for Red Bull, its pretty much irrelevant to them where they finish in the WCC. If it was a team other than Toro Rosso then I would expect people to have more serious doubts ala Sirotkin (who, on an aside, is definitely there because of his money unlike Kyvat).

It helps to have a good position in the feeder series...

mario wrote:...
The main alternative would be da Costa - however, we have seen that, over the course of the year, he has come in for criticism for his performance and there have been rumours that Red Bull have been dissatisfied with his performance in FR3.5 this season. Perhaps Red Bull felt that he wasn't putting in as much effort as he should given the assumption that he would effectively get the second seat at Toro Rosso by default? Either way, I think that it is a little early to throw around accusations of being a pay driver when there is no evidence for that at the moment.

Hmm. The way you put it, it seems like a sensible choice, yet the decision was described as a "shock" decision. Da Costa could have gotten complacent thinking it was his seat or shown some negative trait we never got to see. Sainz Jr. himself admitted he's too young so no surprises there. I wasn't suggesting Kvyat is a pay driver, he's a Red Bull Junior so it's natural he would wind up in Toro Rosso.

Somehow with all the Kobayashis and other potential drivers with decent ability and age, it seems weird teams are grabbing youngsters. On the other hand Red Bull picked a young talent to be their champion a long time ago and struck gold, so maybe they know what the heck they're doing. I'm mostly whining about drivers like Valsechi or similar having nowhere to drive... F1 needs another midfield team or two. Or just add a couple of reject teams to promote Marussia and Caterham up there... ;)

The decisions of Helmut Marko remain as mysterious as ever. So even with a new driver, there is nothing new at Scuderia Toro Rosso.

Remember when they kept Jaime Alguesuari as long as they felt he could draw some Spanish sponsorship? Toro Rosso might be looking for Russian sponsorship now with their new driver. Also with a guy of his young age, they are again gambling on maybe bringing up the next Vettel. This signing is not a move to guarantee stability for Scuderia Toro Rosso but a gamble on finding a superstar. The Red Bull Young Driver program is obviously not interested in very good drivers but only in discovering superstars.

It's kind of like those singing contest TV shows. I have to admit I'm bored by the Red Bull Young Driver program.

But I also must confess still being grumpy that so many world class drivers were ousted from their seats by their respective teams for rookies with rich sponsorship at the beginning of the 2013 season and have thus not followed F1 closely at all this year. I guess my motorsport fandom has moved across the pond to IndyCar, and I guess I have seen the better races. Unfortunately, IndyCar's next season is based on a vastly inferior calendar of events. Here's hoping the racing will be as good as it was this year anyway.

In closing, I would like to wish good luck and all the best to Scuderia Toro Rosso and their new driver lineup. Here's hoping they can unrejectify both of them next season.

Yannick wrote:But I also must confess still being grumpy that so many world class drivers were ousted from their seats by their respective teams for rookies with rich sponsorship at the beginning of the 2013 season and have thus not followed F1 closely at all this year.

I know a few people out in the real world (because this forum is neither real nor technically a world; think of it as being in some kind of Matrix only without the appalling two sequels) who feel the same and have given up on F1 to follow, ahem, MotoGP. EVEN THOUGH THAT SPORT IS MOTORBIKES!!!!!

Sublime_FA11C wrote:

mario wrote:...
The main alternative would be da Costa - however, we have seen that, over the course of the year, he has come in for criticism for his performance and there have been rumours that Red Bull have been dissatisfied with his performance in FR3.5 this season. Perhaps Red Bull felt that he wasn't putting in as much effort as he should given the assumption that he would effectively get the second seat at Toro Rosso by default? Either way, I think that it is a little early to throw around accusations of being a pay driver when there is no evidence for that at the moment.

Hmm. The way you put it, it seems like a sensible choice, yet the decision was described as a "shock" decision. Da Costa could have gotten complacent thinking it was his seat or shown some negative trait we never got to see. Sainz Jr. himself admitted he's too young so no surprises there. I wasn't suggesting Kvyat is a pay driver, he's a Red Bull Junior so it's natural he would wind up in Toro Rosso.

Somehow with all the Kobayashis and other potential drivers with decent ability and age, it seems weird teams are grabbing youngsters. On the other hand Red Bull picked a young talent to be their champion a long time ago and struck gold, so maybe they know what the heck they're doing. I'm mostly whining about drivers like Valsechi or similar having nowhere to drive... F1 needs another midfield team or two. Or just add a couple of reject teams to promote Marussia and Caterham up there...

I know that you are not accusing Kvyat of being a pay driver, but in some other forums there are some (occasionally quite abusive) comments about Kvyat only getting the seat for financial reasons. It is almost as if there is some sort of phobia of the idea that he could have earned the position on merit and the decision to hire KVyat over da Costa can only be explained away by money, even though there is no evidence for those assertions (if anything, da Costa seems to have more personal sponsorship that Kvyat).

I would guess that the reason why the decision was considered to be a shock was that da Costa's FR3.5 season has still been fairly strong and he had also shown strong form in late 2012. Couple that to the fact that most would have thought that Kvyat was too young, and I guess that most assumed that it would be a formality that da Costa would get the seat.
Still, I would suggest that recent events would suggest that Red Bull felt, for whatever reason, that da Costa had failed to meet expectations - the claim by Vandoorne that they tried to hire him over da Costa shows that da Costa was not the automatic choice for the seat that many thought he was.

CoopsII wrote:

Yannick wrote:But I also must confess still being grumpy that so many world class drivers were ousted from their seats by their respective teams for rookies with rich sponsorship at the beginning of the 2013 season and have thus not followed F1 closely at all this year.

I know a few people out in the real world (because this forum is neither real nor technically a world; think of it as being in some kind of Matrix only without the appalling two sequels) who feel the same and have given up on F1 to follow, ahem, MotoGP. EVEN THOUGH THAT SPORT IS MOTORBIKES!!!!!

Shame that MotoGP's moving from BBC to BT Sport.

Quantum Motorsports wrote:Owing to increased fluidity in the 2014 driver market. Quantum Motorsports are postponing planned announcements until 29.10.13.

So we'll get to know who's driving for them on Tuesday. Intriguing.

Daniel Juncadella denies 2014 Williams move.

Translation: Juncadella's driving for Williams in 2014

watka wrote:Shame that MotoGP's moving from BBC to BT Sport.

David Ginola isnt a fan of Jake Humphrey on BT Sport...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgczuVL7 ... tube_gdata

German site Motorsport-Total is reporting that Massa has signed a 5-year contract with Williams. However, as this is Motorsport-Total, I would count it as a rumour and not as a confirmation.

Five year? For God's sake, I can't believe that.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/massa ... -williams/

More on how Williams are idiots.

Autosport have confirmed rumors that Massa is engaged in negotiations with Williams.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110829

Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/massa-to-replace-maldonado-at-williams/
More on how Williams are idiots.

So he'll be 38/39 when this supposed contract ends? Wowsers.

CoopsII wrote:

Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/massa-to-replace-maldonado-at-williams/
More on how Williams are idiots.

So he'll be 38/39 when this supposed contract ends? Wowsers.

37 I think.

Massa doesn't even deserve a pedalo, let alone a duff Williams.

Frank Williams must be lamenting the day he slagged off the BMW boys.

Wow, Williams like their South Americans don't they!!

James1978 wrote:Wow, Williams like their South Americans don't they!!

They have hired Carlos Reutemann (ARG), Nelson Piquet (BRA), Ayrton Senna (BRA), Antonio Pizzonia (BRA), Rubens Barrichello (BRA), Pastor Maldonado (VEN) and Bruno Senna (BRA) since the their early glory days. Not as many as I thought though.

good_Ralf wrote:

James1978 wrote:Wow, Williams like their South Americans don't they!!

They have hired Carlos Reutemann (ARG), Nelson Piquet (BRA), Ayrton Senna (BRA), Antonio Pizzonia (BRA), Rubens Barrichello (BRA), Pastor Maldonado (VEN) and Bruno Senna (BRA) since the their early glory days. Not as many as I thought though.

What about Montoya or is he a North American? (My Geography is terrible)

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:What about Montoya or is he a North American? (My Geography is terrible)

Brain fade. Montoya is South American, so thanks Freeze-O-Kimi! At least I didn't forget Jungle Boy.

Shizuka wrote:

Quantum Motorsports wrote:Owing to increased fluidity in the 2014 driver market. Quantum Motorsports are postponing planned announcements until 29.10.13.

So we'll get to know who's driving for them on Tuesday. Intriguing.

Am I the only one who thinks they still have some bat-shit crazy plan to get Maldonado to join them?

Personally I think the Williams drive is the most likely drive for Massa now. Lotus are all but certain to go for Hulkenberg and I highly doubt he would go back to Sauber.

As for the Toro Rosso seat I think da Costa has not hugely impressed a few people at Red Bull and the fact that Daniil Kvyat drives for Horner's team in Gp3 and has driven well may be the main factor. Also Maybe the team want to take a gamble on someone who may have the potential rather than wait 2 or 3 more years especially if Riccardo bombs out at Red Bull or Vettel leaves for Ferrari in 2016.

I think Force India will keep the same line up again for 2014. Despite some pretty poor driving from both the last few races the team acknowledges that its more the tyres that has caused the lack of pace.

Gutierrez may just keep his seat at Sauber next year but it will be a case of the partially sighted leading the blind (especially with the new regulations). But who else could come in to lead the team??

Caterham as I said before usually keep the same line up and I highly doubt they would change it. However if they don't get a 12th place soon....

Does Max chilton deserve another season in f1? Its hard to tell but probably not. Yes he has finished every race but most times that has been last. I don't see the top teams watching him and the fact that even the BBC and Sky hardly mention him now says he isn't really setting the world on fire. However his Father's money may give him another year.

The Quantum Motorsports account on Twitter has been suspended now...

rachel1990 wrote:Does Max chilton deserve another season in f1? Its hard to tell but probably not. Yes he has finished every race but most times that has been last. I don't see the top teams watching him and the fact that even the BBC and Sky hardly mention him now says he isn't really setting the world on fire. However his Father's money may give him another year.

Max himself certainly think's he's got another year by saying that other teams are approaching him. I am surprised

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

rachel1990 wrote:Does Max chilton deserve another season in f1? Its hard to tell but probably not. Yes he has finished every race but most times that has been last. I don't see the top teams watching him and the fact that even the BBC and Sky hardly mention him now says he isn't really setting the world on fire. However his Father's money may give him another year.

Max himself certainly think's he's got another year by saying that other teams are approaching him. I am surprised

Hmm... where did you hear this?

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

rachel1990 wrote:Does Max chilton deserve another season in f1? Its hard to tell but probably not. Yes he has finished every race but most times that has been last. I don't see the top teams watching him and the fact that even the BBC and Sky hardly mention him now says he isn't really setting the world on fire. However his Father's money may give him another year.

Max himself certainly think's he's got another year by saying that other teams are approaching him. I am surprised

Must be as test driver. Or Chilton at Sauber next year. Parents paying for their children to be in a Sauber seat??