Grand Prix Rejects

The commentators noticed that next year Kevin Magnussen will have driven with all engine suppliers that are currently on the grid. Though he didn't really 'race' with the Honda engines.

Neverthless, it made me wonder: are there other drivers that similarly have driven will all engine suppliers that were active during their whole career?

Button, like Coulthard, was another British to end his career with a retirement.

Fourth placed Verstappen came within 1.685 seconds of Hamilton. Discounting safety car finishes, how far back do we have to go in order to see such a short gap between first and fourth? (read: should we go all the way back to Italy '71?)

This wrote:Neverthless, it made me wonder: are there other drivers that similarly have driven will all engine suppliers that were active during their whole career?

We can immediately discount anyone who drove in 1990. You'll be thinking of Life, but I'd further cite Bertrand Gachot as being the only driver ever to have competed in a Grand Prix weekend with a Subaru engine. Obviously with Life and Coloni-Subaru I use "competed" in the loosest sense of the word.

So I will ask, are there any drivers other than Gachot and Harry Schell (with his one-off JAP V2) to have been the only driver ever to have competed with any given manufacturer's engine? I've already looked up Pratt & Whitney and the Lotus 56 had three different drivers in its three races.

dinizintheoven wrote:So I will ask, are there any drivers other than Gachot and Harry Schell (with his one-off JAP V2) to have been the only driver ever to have competed with any given manufacturer's engine? I've already looked up Pratt & Whitney and the Lotus 56 had three different drivers in its three races.

I scoured through StatsF1, and found a surprisingly high number of these besides the ones you already mentioned. Many of them were Indy 500 one-offs, but there's some one-offs on European soil and even multiple entries as well.

Indy 500 one-offs
Chevrolet
DeSoto
Dodge
Mercury
Miller
Voelker

European one-offs
BPM (also the only championship entry for a Cisitalia chassis)
Bugatti (also the only championship entry for a Bugatti chassis)
EMW (also the only championship entry for an EMW chassis)
Fiat (also the only championship entry for an SVA chassis)
Jaguar (Clemente Biondetti's infamous Ferrari-Jaguar hybrid)
Küchen

Multiple entries
De Tomaso
Osella (although technically it was just a rebadged Alfa Romeo)
Serenissima (Bruce McLaren's engine of choice at a few races, and the only one on this list to score a championship point!)

Having looked back at the results for the 2012 championship out of nostalgia (what a season that was!) I noticed that there was only one 1-2 (Red Bull in Korea) in 20 races. That's made me wonder when the last season occurred in which no team managed a 1-2; maybe the late 1970's or early 1980's when high attrition and a wide variation in types of circuit led to many different winners?

Francis23 wrote:Having looked back at the results for the 2012 championship out of nostalgia (what a season that was!) I noticed that there was only one 1-2 (Red Bull in Korea) in 20 races. That's made me wonder when the last season occurred in which no team managed a 1-2; maybe the late 1970's or early 1980's when high attrition and a wide variation in types of circuit led to many different winners?

1997 season had only 1-2 by McLaren (the 4th best team!) in the last race and it was a gift from Villeneuve/Williams.

Francis23 wrote:Having looked back at the results for the 2012 championship out of nostalgia (what a season that was!) I noticed that there was only one 1-2 (Red Bull in Korea) in 20 races. That's made me wonder when the last season occurred in which no team managed a 1-2; maybe the late 1970's or early 1980's when high attrition and a wide variation in types of circuit led to many different winners?

Nearly said 1994 until I looked it up and found just one Williams 1-2 in Portugal.

1983 would have been without were it not for Watson and Lauda taking a 1-2 from 22nd and 23rd on the grid in Long Beach.

But it is in fact 1977 that was the most recent season with no 1-2 team finishes. Closest the season got was Reutemann and Lauda finishing 1st and 3rd in Brazil. In fact there were only two time two drivers from the same team on the podium, both times Ferrari.

And wow Williams never got a 1-2 in 1997! Frentzen really was garbage that year.

Samster wrote:

Francis23 wrote:Having looked back at the results for the 2012 championship out of nostalgia (what a season that was!) I noticed that there was only one 1-2 (Red Bull in Korea) in 20 races. That's made me wonder when the last season occurred in which no team managed a 1-2; maybe the late 1970's or early 1980's when high attrition and a wide variation in types of circuit led to many different winners?

Nearly said 1994 until I looked it up and found just one Williams 1-2 in Portugal.

1983 would have been without were it not for Watson and Lauda taking a 1-2 from 22nd and 23rd on the grid in Long Beach.

But it is in fact 1977 that was the most recent season with no 1-2 team finishes. Closest the season got was Reutemann and Lauda finishing 1st and 3rd in Brazil. In fact there were only two time two drivers from the same team on the podium, both times Ferrari.

And wow Williams never got a 1-2 in 1997! Frentzen really was garbage that year.

well in 2003 Ferrari won the WDC and WCC without a single 1-2, they only got a few 1-3s at best

razta wrote:

Samster wrote:

Francis23 wrote:Having looked back at the results for the 2012 championship out of nostalgia (what a season that was!) I noticed that there was only one 1-2 (Red Bull in Korea) in 20 races. That's made me wonder when the last season occurred in which no team managed a 1-2; maybe the late 1970's or early 1980's when high attrition and a wide variation in types of circuit led to many different winners?

Nearly said 1994 until I looked it up and found just one Williams 1-2 in Portugal.

1983 would have been without were it not for Watson and Lauda taking a 1-2 from 22nd and 23rd on the grid in Long Beach.

But it is in fact 1977 that was the most recent season with no 1-2 team finishes. Closest the season got was Reutemann and Lauda finishing 1st and 3rd in Brazil. In fact there were only two time two drivers from the same team on the podium, both times Ferrari.

And wow Williams never got a 1-2 in 1997! Frentzen really was garbage that year.

well in 2003 Ferrari won the WDC and WCC without a single 1-2, they only got a few 1-3s at best

Interesting insight there, thanks guys

Dj_bereta wrote:Button, like Coulthard, was another British to end his career with a retirement.

Looked into seeing if this was some sort of curse against British drivers in this respect. The closest I came to an interesting fact was that Coulthard, Herbert and Hill all retired in their final race, and all appear in F1 coverage. The obvious exception there though is Brundle, who bagged a 5th.

Being unaware that Suzuka would be his final race, Martin couldn't celebrate his final race result either, though...

When they both finish, Hamilton has never beaten Rosberg in a dry race on a pure street circuit (Monaco, Singapore)

andrew wrote:When they both finish, Hamilton has never beaten Rosberg in a dry race on a pure street circuit (Monaco, Singapore)

Nico Rosberg: 2018-19 Formula E Champion. You heard it here first.

Three experienced drivers announcing retirement in one season. I don't remember this happening in years (not considering drivers which failed to get a race seat).

Dj_bereta wrote:Three experienced drivers announcing retirement in one season. I don't remember this happening in years (not considering drivers which failed to get a race seat).

1993 fits I think. Although there was some speculation of some of them returning especially after Senna's death next year, I think Prost, Patrese, Warwick and Boutsen left more or less on their own.

andrew wrote:When they both finish, Hamilton has never beaten Rosberg in a dry race on a pure street circuit (Monaco, Singapore)

Hamilton has never Won in Monaco in the dry..

Nico Rosberg is Germany's least successful World Champion... Think about it..

Vettel 4x
Michael 7x

razta wrote:Nico Rosberg is Germany's least successful World Champion... Think about it..

Vettel 4x
Michael 7x

That's a difference of 3 each. So the next German world champion has to win at least 2 titles to get it taken away from him so he'll end up at -2.

This wrote:

razta wrote:Nico Rosberg is Germany's least successful World Champion... Think about it..

Vettel 4x
Michael 7x

That's a difference of 3 each. So the next German world champion has to win at least 2 titles to get it taken away from him so he'll end up at -2.

Well, the German ABT Audi team in FE lost two driver championships due technical infringements. So, the -2 titles exist already.

Carlos Sainz is the first driver since Robert Kubica in 2010 to have been the most dominant team-leader on the grid. The lists below show the three drivers each year who beat their team-mates most times over the course of the season.

2016
Carlos Sainz - 16 times (team-mates: Verstappen & Kvyat)
Sebastian Vettel - 14 times (team-mate: Raikkonen)
Sergio Perez - 13 times (team-mate Hulkenberg)

2015
Sebastian Vettel - 15 times (team-mate: Raikkonen)
Romain Grosjean - 14 times (team-mate: Maldonado)
Jenson Button - 13 times (team-mates: Magnussen & Alonso)

2014
Fernando Alonso - 16 times (team-mate: Raikkonen)
Jenson Button - 15 times (team-mate: Magnussen)
Daniel Ricciardo - 13 times (team-mate: Vettel)

2013
Sebastian Vettel - 18 times (team-mate: Webber)
Fernando Alonso - 17 times (team-mate: Massa)
Jules Bianchi - 14 times (team-mate: Chilton)
Nico Hulkenberg - 14 times (team-mate: Gutierrez)

2012
Fernando Alonso - 18 times (team-mate: Massa)
Kimi Raikkonen - 18 times (team-mates: Grosjean & d'Ambrosio
Pedro de la Rosa - 16 times (team-mate: Karthikeyan)

2011
Fernando Alonso - 16 times (team-mate: Massa)
Sebastian Vettel - 16 times (team-mate: Webber)
Rubens Barrichello - 13 times (team-mate: Maldonado)

2010
Robert Kubica - 17 times (team-mate: Petrov)
Fernando Alonso - 14 times (team-mate: Massa)
Heikki Kovalainen - 14 times (team-mate: Trulli)
Nico Rosberg - 14 times (team-mate: Schumacher)

I think we can draw plenty of conclusions from this data. I for one drew six conclusions:

• Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel are the best two drivers of the decade by some distance.
• Felipe Massa really wasn't quite the same driver after his crash, poor bloke.
• The Lotus E23 Hybrid may well have been a much better car than we all thought.
• Robert Kubica would almost certainly have become World Champion.
• Even the best drivers have bad seasons.
• Either Carlos Sainz or Pedro de la Rosa should have got Rosberg's old Mercedes seat.

Aislabie wrote:I think we can draw plenty of conclusions from this data. I for one drew six conclusions:

• Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel are the best two drivers of the decade by some distance.
• Even the best drivers have bad seasons.

While I agree that Seb is a special talent, the fact he appears as the 'lesser' team mate to 3rd-placed Ricciardo in 2014 should preclude him from your first point, IMO.

Only rookies drove for Manor in 2016 season. Three rookies. Pretty sure this never happened in the recent times (three rookies in a team in a single season). The closest example which I remember is Jaguar in 2003 season. Webber in his second season alongside with Rookies Pizzonia and Wilson.

What about Minardi in 2005; Albers, Friesacher and Doornbos were all rookies that year, although they had been Friday testers.

it's been 10 years since spygate..
And Alonso is back in the same team as he was back then, and has a rookie team mate again.
And a Finn is set to/has replaced a German WDC at the team most likely to win the championship.

Shortest gap between GP that a driver said would be his last and the first GP following a comeback 0 Felipe Massa

WeirdKerr wrote:Shortest gap between GP that a driver said would be his last and the first GP following a comeback 0 Felipe Massa

I think Damon Hill said a lot of time that a GP would be his last, down there in 1999.

Do Stroll and Massa have the largest age gap between two team-mates in the history of the sport?

AustralianStig wrote:Do Stroll and Massa have the largest age gap between two team-mates in the history of the sport?

I haven't looked into it, but the 1950s would have teammates with large age gaps, I would imagine.

Even outside of the 1950's you have both Chris Amon (19) and Maurice Trintignant (45) driving for Reg Parnell in 1963.
They were only teammates for one race, where Trintignant drove Amon's car, but still!

This wrote:

WeirdKerr wrote:Shortest gap between GP that a driver said would be his last and the first GP following a comeback 0 Felipe Massa

I think Damon Hill said a lot of time that a GP would be his last, down there in 1999.

Didn't Mansell promptly announce his total retirement from F1 after his DNF in 1990 Silverstone?

Pretty sure Pedro Rodriguez also retired for a week when his brother got killed in '63

giraurd wrote:

This wrote:

WeirdKerr wrote:Shortest gap between GP that a driver said would be his last and the first GP following a comeback 0 Felipe Massa

I think Damon Hill said a lot of time that a GP would be his last, down there in 1999.

Didn't Mansell promptly announce his total retirement from F1 after his DNF in 1990 Silverstone?

Pretty sure Pedro Rodriguez also retired for a week when his brother got killed in '63

I was reading a thread on Autosport recently where it was discovered that Tazio Nuvolari retired from motorsport in 1937... a decision that lasted about three days.

As for age gaps, Fangio/Moss and Fangio/Collins immediately sprung to mind. Since then, Mansell and Mika come pretty close to what we have now at Williams.

AustralianStig wrote:Do Stroll and Massa have the largest age gap between two team-mates in the history of the sport?

The 1955 Monaco Grand Prix had Louis Chiron (born August 3, 1899), in his final start, and Eugenio Castellotti (born October 10, 1930), making his second start, teaming up at Lancia.

Thirty-one years and sixty-eight days.

AustralianStig wrote:Do Stroll and Massa have the largest age gap between two team-mates in the history of the sport?

Wasn't there a gap of seventeen years between Rosberg and Schumacher?

I realised that both drivers of the last-placed constructor in 2016 have "moved up the grid" for 2017 (Ocon and Wehrlein). I was wondering when the last time the 2 drivers for the worst constructor effectively ended up with better seats at other teams in the following year.

In 2014/15, both Marcus Ericsson and Will Stevens moved up from Caterham to Sauber and Manor respectively. However, Ericsson didn't technically finish the season with Caterham as in the last race of the year, Stevens replaced Ericsson alongside Kobayashi.

In 2005/06, Christjian Albers moved up from Minardi to Midfield/Spyker. Robert Doornbos finished the 2005 season alongside Albers and then raced for Red Bull in the last 3 races of 2006.

In 2000, Jean Alesi and Nick Heidfeld drove for the Prost team. In 2001, Heidfeld raced for Sauber, whilst Alesi was retained by Prost and drove for them until the German GP after which he switched places with Heinz-Harald Frentzen at Jordan.

In 1991, Nicola Larini and Eric van de Poele drove for the Lambo-Modena team. Van de Poele joined Brabham for 1992 whilst Larini got a chance at Ferrari at the end of the year as replacement for Ivan Capelli.

In 1990, Bertrand Gachot drove in the one-man Coloni team and got a drive at Jordan the next year.

The last time that the 2 drivers ending the season for the last placed constructor/a constructor with 0 championship points moved up to other teams (who had earned points) for the start of the next season was actually 1989/90 when Bernd Schneider and Aguri Suzuki moved from the point-less Zakspeed outfit to Footwork and Lola respectively, and even then Schneider only drove the opening GP of the season for Footwork before leaving F1.

So it's pretty rare!

watka wrote:I realised that both drivers of the last-placed constructor in 2016 have "moved up the grid" for 2017 (Ocon and Wehrlein). I was wondering when the last time the 2 drivers for the worst constructor effectively ended up with better seats at other teams in the following year.

Well there you go, you've just jinxed it the last-minute buyers of Manor build a sick chassis and finish 5th in the championship with three podiums over the season, whilst Sauber and Force India simultaneously go bust on Friday Practice at Melbourne.

Which season had the most wet races? I'm currently watching 1996, and Spain, which was round seven, is the third wet race of the year so far.

I can't remember where I saw a stat about the wet races per season but 1981 had plenty

The first race of the F5, WRC, IndyCar and F1 seasons have all been won by a driver named Sébastien (or Sebastian).

So if Loeb wins in Barcelona...

Simtek wrote:The first race of the F5, WRC, IndyCar and F1 seasons have all been won by a driver named Sébastien (or Sebastian).

So if Loeb wins in Barcelona...

Just wait until Buemi wins the 6 Hours of Silverstone!