Grand Prix Rejects

Izzyeviel wrote:Three from Donnington, Brands & Circuit of the Wales

Brands would probably have sub 1 minute lap times in a modern F1 car.

Izzyeviel wrote:Three from Donnington, Brands & Circuit of the Wales

Circuit of the Whales is far from ready (having just quickly looked at their website, ready in 2019, so maybe? But not yet.). Brands would not be able to cope with F1 traffic - it struggles enough with BTCC traffic - new access roads to and from the M25 would need to be constructed to make this sensible and viable (or else have park and ride from Bluewater/Westfield/etc. as they did for the Paralympics). Donington is possible and viable as things currently stand, I guess.

dr-baker wrote:

Izzyeviel wrote:Three from Donnington, Brands & Circuit of the Wales

Circuit of the Whales is far from ready (having just quickly looked at their website, ready in 2019, so maybe? But not yet.). Brands would not be able to cope with F1 traffic - it struggles enough with BTCC traffic - new access roads to and from the M25 would need to be constructed to make this sensible and viable (or else have park and ride from Bluewater/Westfield/etc. as they did for the Paralympics). Donington is possible and viable as things currently stand, I guess.

Donington have officially stated that they have no interest in bidding to host an F1 race on the grounds that their previous attempt to secure the British GP nearly ruined them and, at the moment, it is being reported that they've had no contact with Bernie.

Out of the other circuits that you list, the company behind the Circuit of Wales have declined to comment on the speculation linking them to a bid for the British GP but, as you say, the likelihood that they'll actually be in a position to hold a race in the near future is fairly low.

I think that the talk of other circuits having been in contact with Bernie is probably an act of misdirection to make it look as if he does have alternative options lined up, whilst the BRDC in turn are probably trying to use the media to publicly pressurise FOM at a time when I suspect that they are trying to renegotiate the terms of their agreement.

Sounds like Bernie mischief to me too.

It's a good thing this thread has gotten rather quiet in the wake of the Liberty Media takeover. Wouldn't you agree?

Yannick wrote:It's a good thing this thread has gotten rather quiet in the wake of the Liberty Media takeover. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes. It means that the European races are safe for now.

dr-baker wrote:

Yannick wrote:It's a good thing this thread has gotten rather quiet in the wake of the Liberty Media takeover. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes. It means that the European races are safe for now.

And that they'll bring back the old Hockenheim?

HURRAH FOR LIBERTY MEDIA. SAVIOURS OF F1!!!

dr-baker wrote:

Yannick wrote:It's a good thing this thread has gotten rather quiet in the wake of the Liberty Media takeover. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes. It means that the European races are safe for now.

To some extent, Liberty Media are still very much working in the wake of the contracts that Bernie negotiated during his final days at the helm. The return of the French GP at the Paul Ricard circuit may be one positive aspect, but equally contracts such as Baku have brought unwelcome criticism and may not necessarily be easy to unpick.

We know that a number of circuits are looking to renegotiate the terms that they struck under Bernie, with Silverstone having been one of the more vocal parties in that respect - there are many others where things are yet to be resolved.

The Canadian GP is, I believe, dependent on infrastructure upgrades around the track, whilst the financial problems around the German GP bring the viability of that event under question.

Interlagos's contract for the Brazilian GP is also due to expire soon (in 2020) - although things seem to be on ice as Bernie is out of the picture, we know that the future hosting fees was a sticking point in the negotiations which had been carried out up to the point of his departure.

We know that Sepang intend to withdraw from the calendar and, just like Brazil, we know that negotiations between Singapore and Bernie were ongoing at the time he was ousted and, although we've not heard much recently, I expect we will be hearing more there soon.

There doesn't seem to be a major rush by Liberty Media to unpick those contracts just yet though - it may be because they are still getting to grips with the terms, but there is also the question of how they might then make up for a potential reduction in hosting fees if they do begin to drop the fees for some circuits.

Although things are quiet now, I would not be surprised if there are some calls later in the season from some of the circuits for an adjustment in the financial terms now that Bernie is no longer there - we will have to see whether Liberty Media does respond accordingly and is prepared to drop their fees or not.

Thanks Mario for putting those recent developments into perspective.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mala ... ns-890460/

"Although Malaysia has not been able to make a success of its F1 race, the track remains fully committed to MotoGP – which has attracted bumper crowds and generates a profit for the circuit." - so this is a commercial problem; ticket prices too high caused by BE's grasping cost of running the race. Who knew?

At least we get Deutschland back.

IceG wrote:https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/malaysian-gp-axed-for-2018-as-germany-returns-890460/

"Although Malaysia has not been able to make a success of its F1 race, the track remains fully committed to MotoGP – which has attracted bumper crowds and generates a profit for the circuit." - so this is a commercial problem; ticket prices too high caused by BE's grasping cost of running the race. Who knew?

At least we get Deutschland back.

Shame about Malaysia. After a couple of decades of F1 racing I think that qualifies it as a 'Classic' but, as you say, Germany is back in the fold and something about returning there feels right.

As Brundle said, there are a few circuits I would knock off before Malaysia... well, for me, quite a lot. I like the places coming back for 2018, but they aren't as good as Sepang.

will miss Sepang, one of the few Tilkedromes that was good. For me they should use it as a third and final test on the way to Australia from next season.

Have no fear cockers, the chances of a Macclesfield Grand Prix just got a little bit better...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39539368

CoopsII wrote:Have no fear cockers, the chances of a Macclesfield Grand Prix just got a little bit better...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39539368

This is good news, so long as they don't think about doing a F1 street race in the UK. Firstly, we've got enough street races on the calendar as it is. Secondly, Silverstone is a classic track and whilst not everyone's favourite, I think most hardcore F1 fans would keep up a fuss if it was replaced by a gimmicky street race. Thirdly, if they even so much as think about having a race in London then the mayoral office, as well as most of the city's population, will kick up an almighty fuss. They managed to kick Formula E out of Battersea Park pretty quickly, so I can see F1 in London being anything but straightforward.

What I do approve of is having more events on public roads (as long as the safety is there), particularly cities, in order to get more people into motor sports. It is infinitely more easy to get to a race in a city than circuits in the middle of nowhere - it was a real novelty to be able to take the train to Battersea for Formula E, whereas the one time I went to Silverstone was when I didn't have a car and I needed a lift to do the 30 minute odd journey from Milton Keynes station. I think a BTCC round on a street circuit would be great. BTCC offers entertaining racing and a street circuit is something the series doesn't have. Furthermore, tintops will be way less cautious than open-wheelers on a street circuit, so it will keep the panel-bashers happy.

Please please please bring back the good old Birmingham Superprix for BTCC.

I'm sure Monza said they will be using a new layout for Formula One this year so they would be able to extend their current contract.

So, it would seem that Liberty Media are perhaps not quite so different to Ecclestone when it comes to running races in questionable environments.

It has emerged that Chase Carey has held a personal meeting with President Erdogan about reviving the Turkish Grand Prix. Although no formal agreement has been put in place, Turkish officials have stated that an "agreement in principle" was agreed between the two sides to revive the race. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/turk ... 92757/?s=1

mario wrote:So, it would seem that Liberty Media are perhaps not quite so different to Ecclestone when it comes to running races in questionable environments.

It has emerged that Chase Carey has held a personal meeting with President Erdogan about reviving the Turkish Grand Prix. Although no formal agreement has been put in place, Turkish officials have stated that an "agreement in principle" was agreed between the two sides to revive the race. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/turk ... 92757/?s=1

Well, we've just been to China, we're in Russia at the end of the month and if either of these events are ever at risk of being discontinued it won't be because of the host countries terrible human rights records so....

But, hey, they may make some old races available to watch online so who cares?

CoopsII wrote:

mario wrote:So, it would seem that Liberty Media are perhaps not quite so different to Ecclestone when it comes to running races in questionable environments.

It has emerged that Chase Carey has held a personal meeting with President Erdogan about reviving the Turkish Grand Prix. Although no formal agreement has been put in place, Turkish officials have stated that an "agreement in principle" was agreed between the two sides to revive the race. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/turk ... 92757/?s=1

Well, we've just been to China, we're in Russia at the end of the month and if either of these events are ever at risk of being discontinued it won't be because of the host countries terrible human rights records so....

But, hey, they may make some old races available to watch online so who cares?

Don't forget about Bahrain, which is right this weekend. Azerbaijan doesn't have a very clean record either.

The thing is, as long as the country has plenty of money to throw around F1 doesn't care about the human rights situation. Not when Bernie was in power and certainly not with the new owners. They'd probably host a race in North Korea if it wasn't for the fact that the country is completely hooked to Chinese life support.

mario wrote:So, it would seem that Liberty Media are perhaps not quite so different to Ecclestone when it comes to running races in questionable environments.

It has emerged that Chase Carey has held a personal meeting with President Erdogan about reviving the Turkish Grand Prix. Although no formal agreement has been put in place, Turkish officials have stated that an "agreement in principle" was agreed between the two sides to revive the race. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/turk ... 92757/?s=1

Honestly, was I the only one that liked that track? I was just saying how much I missed it as we played the orginial GRID on the simulator rig I built. The front sector was fast, you have a few blind and/or double apexes, and the middle section had Turn 8 and a long flat out blast. Yes the last part was really, really, really Mickey Mouse, and yes its in a borderline third world country, but it was Tilke's best design, bar none.

Istanbul is an amazing track in a terrible location. Much like Yeongam.

Nuppiz wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

mario wrote:So, it would seem that Liberty Media are perhaps not quite so different to Ecclestone when it comes to running races in questionable environments.

It has emerged that Chase Carey has held a personal meeting with President Erdogan about reviving the Turkish Grand Prix. Although no formal agreement has been put in place, Turkish officials have stated that an "agreement in principle" was agreed between the two sides to revive the race. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/turk ... 92757/?s=1

Well, we've just been to China, we're in Russia at the end of the month and if either of these events are ever at risk of being discontinued it won't be because of the host countries terrible human rights records so....

But, hey, they may make some old races available to watch online so who cares?

Don't forget about Bahrain, which is right this weekend. Azerbaijan doesn't have a very clean record either.

The thing is, as long as the country has plenty of money to throw around F1 doesn't care about the human rights situation. Not when Bernie was in power and certainly not with the new owners. They'd probably host a race in North Korea if it wasn't for the fact that the country is completely hooked to Chinese life support.

Let's not forget that F1 also visited Apartheid South Africa until the early 1980s as well as Francoist Spain, Brazil under military rule and Perónist Argentina.

We shouldn't pretend that F1 visiting places with questionable human rights records is a new theme.

Nah, they would even organise an Islamic State Grand Prix if they offered him enough money

tommykl wrote:We shouldn't pretend that F1 visiting places with questionable human rights records is a new theme.

You're not wrong but I do think that we live in slightly more enlightened times and whilst I'd like to believe in people power and our voices effecting change it's a hard slog so I feel it's important to at least not celebrate these events.

And the circus rolls on: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-39706499

I'm glad that so far the taxpayer has "only" footed £9.3m of the bills, hopefully this project gets killed stone dead soon before it eats up much more money. The whole idea seemed to come out of nowhere in the first place and they are trying to dive straight in at the deep end with the MotoGP deal. Furthermore, they've been trying to do everything through the Welsh government when I would have thought a project of this size would need support from the UK government.

A buddy of mine live near the proposed NJ Street Circuit, and claims that local rumors are that Liberty has visited the site in the hopes of reviving it.....as a night race.

Wallio wrote:A buddy of mine live near the proposed NJ Street Circuit, and claims that local rumors are that Liberty has visited the site in the hopes of reviving it.....as a night race.

Thanks for this bit of information. The American Grand Prix at Weehawken certainly makes a lot of sense for Liberty Media's goals. However, making it a night race would effectively place it out of the time zone window that is relevant to F1's core audience in Europe. So that would not be a good idea.

Yannick wrote:

Wallio wrote:A buddy of mine live near the proposed NJ Street Circuit, and claims that local rumors are that Liberty has visited the site in the hopes of reviving it.....as a night race.

Thanks for this bit of information. The American Grand Prix at Weehawken certainly makes a lot of sense for Liberty Media's goals. However, making it a night race would effectively place it out of the time zone window that is relevant to F1's core audience in Europe. So that would not be a good idea.

Yea, nothing about this makes sense. The track layout was actually pretty good, and it would be less than 3 hours from me, AND the NYC skyline lit up would be epic....

But as you say it would be unwatchable to 80% of the world, it would be wildly unpopular here (the level of griping when a section of road gets shut down for a movie is insane, now triple it), and there are certain....factions that would have to be appeased (read: bribed).

Plus isn't COTA on shaky ground? Or was that just Bernie being Bernie?

An NJ Street Circuit race would be excellent, as long as there isn't a nearby ostrich race going on at the same time...

Not F1-related. but approval has been granted for a new National-spec circuit (FIA Grade 2 / FIM Grade B) in Northern Ireland, and news of the likely end of the Circuit Of Wales' hopes ...

https://www.autosport.com/national/news/131773/new-29m-track-to-be-built-in-northern-ireland

Website here : http://laketorrent.com/

Noise restrictions will limit the venue to only 12 days of racing per year with a maximum of four Saturday and Sunday meetings allowed.

If they can get this done for the quoted £29m, they could build nearly 15 for the cost of one Circuit Of Wales!

madmark1974 wrote:Not F1-related. but approval has been granted for a new National-spec circuit (FIA Grade 2 / FIM Grade B) in Northern Ireland, and news of the likely end of the Circuit Of Wales' hopes ...

https://www.autosport.com/national/news/131773/new-29m-track-to-be-built-in-northern-ireland

Website here : http://laketorrent.com/

Noise restrictions will limit the venue to only 12 days of racing per year with a maximum of four Saturday and Sunday meetings allowed.

If they can get this done for the quoted £29m, they could build nearly 15 for the cost of one Circuit Of Wales!

So now we know what the DUP are spending part of their £1 billion "present" from Theresa May on.

Regardless, this is excellent news, about time Northern Ireland got itself a proper racetrack.

East Londoner wrote:

madmark1974 wrote:Not F1-related. but approval has been granted for a new National-spec circuit (FIA Grade 2 / FIM Grade B) in Northern Ireland, and news of the likely end of the Circuit Of Wales' hopes ...

https://www.autosport.com/national/news/131773/new-29m-track-to-be-built-in-northern-ireland

Website here : http://laketorrent.com/

Noise restrictions will limit the venue to only 12 days of racing per year with a maximum of four Saturday and Sunday meetings allowed.

If they can get this done for the quoted £29m, they could build nearly 15 for the cost of one Circuit Of Wales!

So now we know what the DUP are spending part of their £1 billion "present" from Theresa May on.

Regardless, this is excellent news, about time Northern Ireland got itself a proper racetrack.

*cough*Bishopscourt*cough*

Okay, it's not exactly Grade 2, or even Mondello, but still...

Anyway, I've been naturally intrigued and excited by this news since I first read about it last week. It would be great for motorsport on both sides of the border if this ultimately comes to fruition; car racing, particularly circuit racing, has seen a slow decline in Ireland since the turn of the millennium and this would be a great boost.

Liberty Media currently claims that "around 40 locations" have approached them about the possibility of hosting a Grand Prix in the near future, which is certainly a good thing in terms of having a healthy calendar. They didn't elaborate regarding which locations were concerned, but they did reiterate their plan to reduce transport costs by splitting the season into Asian, European and American segments, though, they seem to want to place it in the order Europe-America-Asia, which raises some questions regarding how such a calendar would look.

tommykl wrote: they seem to want to place it in the order Europe-America-Asia, which raises some questions regarding how such a calendar would look.

What could possibly go wrong with Silverstone in April?

tommykl wrote:Liberty Media currently claims that "around 40 locations" have approached them about the possibility of hosting a Grand Prix in the near future,

I wonder if that's any different to the recent history, though? Bernie always appeared to have plenty of potential race circuits hammering at his door with the criteria he considered acceptable (cash, and lots of it) so I wonder if Liberty Media is attracting a different cluster of locations, will they be more selective in itheir decision making or if it will be the same guys only painted up to sound less quixotic?

So rumours had been pie in the sky about a Miami race next season and then today I see this on Autosport



Now a rumour from BBC Gossip was that Baku of all places might be dropped for it. And this looks a similar layout, but what's with that hairpin after the arena? It looks almost as bad as the one from that awful A1GP Chinese layout!

That looks like one of those things from Star Wars (An AT-AT walker, is it? I'm not a huge fan) taking a GIANT step forward.

Barbazza wrote:That looks like one of those things from Star Wars (An AT-AT walker, is it? I'm not a huge fan) taking a GIANT step forward.

Thanks, now I can never un-see that

Rob Dylan wrote:

Barbazza wrote:That looks like one of those things from Star Wars (An AT-AT walker, is it? I'm not a huge fan) taking a GIANT step forward.

Thanks, now I can never un-see that

Looks more like AT-ST, tbh.