2012 Silly Season

[mario]

I am already missing Colin Kolles at this point because I have a gut feeling that HRT will chose a sensible option and not go into cheer lunacy and pick someone we barely heard of full of cash and rejectfulness. Leave home and come back Colin, you are forgiven!

Instead he could pick somebody we have heard of and has lots of cash, like Karthikeyan...

All jokes aside, though, it seems somewhat ironic that there seem to have been just as many, if not more, drivers linked to HRT in recent weeks as there were linked to Williams. Speaking of one of those drivers linked to HRT (Petrov, though he is now being linked with Caterham), Trulli has dismissed the talk that he is going to be replaced by Petrov. When asked, he has pointed out that he has a valid contract with the team (for what that is worth given how easily contracts seem to be broken these days), plus that there have been no signs of a change in direction by the team (with Trulli currently scheduled to take part in a seat fitting on Monday). Make of that what you will, but for now at least Trulli seems determined to stay put within the team; considering that he has routinely been considered as being in the most vulnerable position throughout the silly season, it would be somewhat ironic if he stays in place after all. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97090

Also, on a Caterham related note the team are going to be the first to launch their 2012 car, and in a slight throwback to older days the launch will be via the traditional printed medium (the cover and pages of F1 Racing, which is one of Autosport's offshoots) on January 26th. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97098

[DanielPT]

I am already missing Colin Kolles at this point because I have a gut feeling that HRT will chose a sensible option and not go into cheer lunacy and pick someone we barely heard of full of cash and rejectfulness. Leave home and come back Colin, you are forgiven!

Also, on a Caterham related note the team are going to be the first to launch their 2012 car, and in a slight throwback to older days the launch will be via the traditional printed medium (the cover and pages of F1 Racing, which is one of Autosport's offshoots) on January 26th. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97098

I am certainly anxious to start seeing the cars being revealed. Hoping for some prettiness to wash my eyes of that Toyota Le Mans car...

[nome66]

come on, the toyota isn't that bad
*checks google images*
eugh i thought they would at least try to follow the original concept.

and what's with all the shark fins this year? it's not like the Mulsanne straight is even straight enough anymore to require them.
if that's all they need just slap one on the trusty old GT-One.

[IdeFan]

come on, the toyota isn't that bad
*checks google images*
eugh i thought they would at least try to follow the original concept.

and what's with all the shark fins this year? it's not like the Mulsanne straight is even straight enough anymore to require them.
if that's all they need just slap one on the trusty old GT-One.

LMP shark fins are mandatory, they're an attempt to keep the cars grounded as they have a nasty habit of taking off during accidents, case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KfdRTQEiyw

Last season there was a grace period for older cars so only the Audi, Peugeot and the newest Lolas ran it. This year there are also mandatory fender holes (big cutouts above each wheel) in another attempt to keep the cars grounded, they also look terrible.

[nome66]

i just see them as 212mph billboards. kind of an eyesore to be honest

why not these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wslIqy6r4Pg

[Myrvold]

Because, I imagine (this is my non-educated theory) that the wings on the LMP cars are so big, that it won't help.

And, wasn't this the reason why NASCAR stopped the use of wings in NASCAR and went back to the old spoiler?

[mario]

I am already missing Colin Kolles at this point because I have a gut feeling that HRT will chose a sensible option and not go into cheer lunacy and pick someone we barely heard of full of cash and rejectfulness. Leave home and come back Colin, you are forgiven!

Also, on a Caterham related note the team are going to be the first to launch their 2012 car, and in a slight throwback to older days the launch will be via the traditional printed medium (the cover and pages of F1 Racing, which is one of Autosport's offshoots) on January 26th. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97098

I am certainly anxious to start seeing the cars being revealed. Hoping for some prettiness to wash my eyes of that Toyota Le Mans car...

Is it wrong that I personally don't think the Toyota is that ugly? OK, it's not the most elegant design out there, but the car is something of a test hack (it is being used for drivetrain development right now according to mulsannecorner.com, with Toyota thought to be experimenting over whether it is better to drive the front or rear wheels with their hybrid system).

[DanielPT]

Also, on a Caterham related note the team are going to be the first to launch their 2012 car, and in a slight throwback to older days the launch will be via the traditional printed medium (the cover and pages of F1 Racing, which is one of Autosport's offshoots) on January 26th. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97098

I am certainly anxious to start seeing the cars being revealed. Hoping for some prettiness to wash my eyes of that Toyota Le Mans car...

Is it wrong that I personally don't think the Toyota is that ugly? OK, it's not the most elegant design out there, but the car is something of a test hack (it is being used for drivetrain development right now according to mulsannecorner.com, with Toyota thought to be experimenting over whether it is better to drive the front or rear wheels with their hybrid system).

No it is not wrong. It's just weird!

Tastes are like underwear. Everyone has their own and its very intimate. Some change them quickly, others don't...

Anyway, perhaps the Toyota can improve its looks, but until then I think it is ugly. Not hideous, just plain ugly!

[Ataxia]

I like the Toyota LMP...don't quite know why (think it might be the paintjob).

[mario]

Breaking news from scarbsf1 and Peter Windsor via their webcast - they were interviewing a member of the Williams F1 team (Dr Mark Gillan, who is the Chief Operations Engineer at Williams), and he has just announced that the latest FIA Technical Directive bans the system that Renault/Lotus have been working on (with the FIA sending out that directive barely 15 minutes ago).
Now, you have to wonder who was behind that move given that multiple teams seem to have been working on such systems - Ferrari and Mercedes appear to have had systems ready for testing, whilst Gillan has confirmed that Williams have also been looking into such a system, so we can probably rule them out of the teams who might have protested.

[DanielPT]

Breaking news from scarbsf1 and Peter Windsor via their webcast - they were interviewing a member of the Williams F1 team (Dr Mark Gillan, who is the Chief Operations Engineer at Williams), and he has just announced that the latest FIA Technical Directive bans the system that Renault/Lotus have been working on (with the FIA sending out that directive barely 15 minutes ago).
Now, you have to wonder who was behind that move given that multiple teams seem to have been working on such systems - Ferrari and Mercedes appear to have had systems ready for testing, whilst Gillan has confirmed that Williams have also been looking into such a system, so we can probably rule them out of the teams who might have protested.

That still leaves two of the most likely teams to do it on the equation...

[AdrianSutil]

It's so obvious I'll just say it...






Red Bull.

[nome66]

don't forget ferrari

[the Masked Lapwing]

don't forget ferrari

Why would they protest about something they're going to use?

[mario]

don't forget ferrari

Why would they protest about something they're going to use?

Exactly - why would Ferrari want to shoot themselves in the foot by getting a device which they have probably spent a not inconsiderable amount of time working on banned? Ferrari will almost certainly have been lobbying the FIA in favour of this device, not against it, since it would have been in their interest to use this device.

[dr-baker]

don't forget ferrari

Why would they protest about something they're going to use?

Exactly - why would Ferrari want to shoot themselves in the foot by getting a device which they have probably spent a not inconsiderable amount of time working on banned? Ferrari will almost certainly have been lobbying the FIA in favour of this device, not against it, since it would have been in their interest to use this device.

Unless they can't get it to work as well as they would like...

[mario]

don't forget ferrari

Why would they protest about something they're going to use?

Exactly - why would Ferrari want to shoot themselves in the foot by getting a device which they have probably spent a not inconsiderable amount of time working on banned? Ferrari will almost certainly have been lobbying the FIA in favour of this device, not against it, since it would have been in their interest to use this device.

Unless they can't get it to work as well as they would like...

Given that Ferrari had already submitted their design to Charlie Whiting for approval when this story first broke, you have to assume that the design Ferrari had was both developed enough to put on their car and offered them a potential performance advantage - the main reason why they were seeking approval was so they could use it at the very first test session. Besides, nobody has shaken down their cars yet, and will not do so for a couple of weeks yet, so Ferrari probably would have had no idea how well their system worked compared to their rivals.
No, to me it is more likely that the complaint came from somebody else - I know that Ferrari has lobbied against some designs extensively in the past, but they are by no means the only team to have done so. There are several other teams on the grid that would benefit much more from this concept being banned that Ferrari in most likelihood, from front and midfield teams right through to the back of the grid.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Well Red Bull aren't too fussed about getting the system which means while they still may have protested it, I think McLaren would be the far more likely candidate

[mario]

Well Red Bull aren't too fussed about getting the system which means while they still may have protested it, I think McLaren would be the far more likely candidate

McLaren are one potential candidate (though I wouldn't entirely rule out Red Bull either) if we assume that the main intention of this ban was to potentially hinder Ferrari, based on the reasonable assumption that McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull may well be reasonable close together in terms of performance next year. Of course, right now that assumes that McLaren have not also been caught out by this move and were not working on their own rival system - as it is, we only know that Williams were working on such a system because Gillan was directly asked by Peter Windsor about it.

However, there are a few midfield teams who could be very happy to see such system go, both for cost reasons and to bring them closer to Lotus and Mercedes, and out of the midfield teams Force India could be another candidate. Force India have said that they are aiming to finish at least 5th, and preferably 3rd, in the WCC this year, and in the past few years the teams finishing in 3rd, 4th and 5th have been Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault (in that order).
They also happen to be three of the teams that are known to have developed this sort of ride height adjustment mechanism; given how Force India was so close to those teams last year, getting something banned which is likely to cost those teams 0.1-0.2s (according to Luca Furbatto, who is one of the designers at STR, that is the likely performance benefit of this device) might just push one or more of those teams behind Force India and increase their chances of finishing at least 5th in the WCC.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Third sounds dangerously close to publicocrap but if the "ugly one" proves as disappointing as some fans fear it would be and Mercedes fail to deliver again then it just might happen

[RonDenisDeletraz]

Third sounds dangerously close to publicocrap but if the "ugly one" proves as disappointing as some fans fear it would be and Mercedes fail to deliver again then it just might happen

It wont happen, the Force India driver lineup is crap.

[IdeFan]

Third sounds dangerously close to publicocrap but if the "ugly one" proves as disappointing as some fans fear it would be and Mercedes fail to deliver again then it just might happen

It wont happen, the Force India driver lineup is crap.

I disagree, I think Hulkenberg did a decent job at Williams and didn't deserve the axe, while di Resta showed some potential in the back half of last year. They definitely should have kept Sutil but with him facing court and a potential jail sentence (unlikely but possible) he ruled himself out. Beyond them I don't rate Petrov or Senna higher than di Resta and Hulkenberg, while the Torro Rosso duo were axed so late in the day that it was probably too late to sign them. I'm not sure exactly when they were fired and when the Force India drivers were finally announced, but the deals were probably done long before Alguersuari and Buemi became available.

Its not a stellar lineup but its pretty solid IMO. Third in the WCC is probably out of the question but if Mercedes slip up or Renault decline like they did last year, 5th is a realistic target. Also, a team can never publicly aim to hold station in the championship, I can't imagine Force India coming out and saying "we're aiming for 6th again".

Its hard to see McLaren or Ferrari slipping out of the top five, their worst seasons in the last decade (2009 for Ferrari, 2004 for McLaren) they still managed 4th and 5th respectively.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

I can't see Force India scoring any more than 30 points this year.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Third sounds dangerously close to publicocrap but if the "ugly one" proves as disappointing as some fans fear it would be and Mercedes fail to deliver again then it just might happen

It wont happen, the Force India driver lineup is crap.

I disagree, I think Hulkenberg did a decent job at Williams and didn't deserve the axe, while di Resta showed some potential in the back half of last year. They definitely should have kept Sutil but with him facing court and a potential jail sentence (unlikely but possible) he ruled himself out. Beyond them I don't rate Petrov or Senna higher than di Resta and Hulkenberg, while the Torro Rosso duo were axed so late in the day that it was probably too late to sign them. I'm not sure exactly when they were fired and when the Force India drivers were finally announced, but the deals were probably done long before Alguersuari and Buemi became available.

The problem with Hulkenberg was he spent most of 2010 looking like he couldn't care less and for someone of his caliber that's simply not good enough. Force India need the pre-2010 Hulkenberg in the car, not the post-2010 one.

[DemocalypseNow]

I said in 2008 that Sebastian Vettel / Sebastien Bourdais was one of the best lineups on the grid before that season had even started. I'm going to stick my neck out on a chopping board for critics and say the same about Di Resta / Hulkenberg.

I shall screenshot this statement, save it and back it up in 26 different secret locations, to dig out when at least one of the two becomes a multiple-world champion and gloat to all you naysayers who have this completely and utterly wrong.

[Jeroen Krautmeir]

I said in 2008 that Sebastian Vettel / Sebastien Bourdais was one of the best lineups on the grid before that season had even started. I'm going to stick my neck out on a chopping board for critics and say the same about Di Resta / Hulkenberg.

I shall screenshot this statement, save it and back it up in 26 different secret locations, to dig out when at least one of the two becomes a multiple-world champion and gloat to all you naysayers who have this completely and utterly wrong.

So di Resta is going to be a likeable at first double world champion, only to turn into an annoying fool, and Hulkenberg is going to be as good if not a bit better, but be foiled by awful luck, before doing a half season next year and then getting fired?

I approve of this!

[Captain Hammer]

Veedeegee on Twitter:

“Guys, everybody asking me about F1 but at the moment I can’t say anything! Please be patient. But thank you very big about the positive messages! It means a lot. Keep following!”

He's been doing that for weeks, now.

[Klon]

Veedeegee on Twitter:

“Guys, everybody asking me about F1 but at the moment I can’t say anything! Please be patient. But thank you very big about the positive messages! It means a lot. Keep following!”

He's been doing that for weeks, now.

Guy's got nothing.

[Yannick]

Will the grid of the 1st race of the 2012 season have the highest number of drivers who are eligible for a profile on this site in recent years? I guess so. Counted for this will be Sergio Perez, RMN GRSJN a/k/a the Man Without Vowels, the Reverend McDonald, Bruno Senna (both Williams drivers), both Force 1ndia drivers (despite being debatable whether the Hulk is eligible because of his pole position, but this is a first since having a pole position under their belt is not common for eligible drivers, much less for actual rejects who have already retired from the sport), the two Toro Rosso drivers and the new F1 Virgin in the 2nd Manor seat. That is 9 drivers not counting the 2nd HRT seat which might turn out to be just a seat with no car around it.

Hence, 2012 could be Rejects Galore in F1. Fans of this website better watch out!

[Phoenix]

I'm expecting the same kind of results from the Force India guys as the results Jordan got in 1997. I think those two driver line-ups are pretty comparable.

[Aerond]

Will the grid of the 1st race of the 2012 season have the highest number of drivers who are eligible for a profile on this site in recent years? I guess so. Counted for this will be Sergio Perez, RMN GRSJN a/k/a the Man Without Vowels, the Reverend McDonald, Bruno Senna (both Williams drivers), both Force 1ndia drivers (despite being debatable whether the Hulk is eligible because of his pole position, but this is a first since having a pole position under their belt is not common for eligible drivers, much less for actual rejects who have already retired from the sport), the two Toro Rosso drivers and the new F1 Virgin in the 2nd Manor seat. That is 9 drivers not counting the 2nd HRT seat which might turn out to be just a seat with no car around it.

Hence, 2012 could be Rejects Galore in F1. Fans of this website better watch out!

Which make it obvious that reject criteria should be changed, starting to count a couple of years ago.

[Klon]

Which make it obvious that reject criteria should be changed, starting to count a couple of years ago.

Not really...

[Aerond]

Which make it obvious that reject criteria should be changed, starting to count a couple of years ago.

Not really...

Yes really... I mean, the reject criteria is plainly outdated. Nowadays with the inmense level of reliability and the established order throughout a season it makes it impossible for a driver outside the top 4 teams to score higher than a 5th or 6th place, and we´re talking when races go a little bit crazy. Last year, appart from the first 2 races, we had only 5 different drivers visiting the podium... 5 drivers in 17 races!!
I don´t see why a driver scoring a couple of 10th places should escape a profile on this site, but a couple of 7th or 8th places should be more than enough to prove certain value in this era of ultra-professionalism.

Anyone with a little bit of brain can see that Jaime Alguersuari is much more of a valuable driver than Tora Takagi.

[Collieafc]

Will the grid of the 1st race of the 2012 season have the highest number of drivers who are eligible for a profile on this site in recent years? I guess so. Counted for this will be Sergio Perez, RMN GRSJN a/k/a the Man Without Vowels, the Reverend McDonald, Bruno Senna (both Williams drivers), both Force 1ndia drivers (despite being debatable whether the Hulk is eligible because of his pole position, but this is a first since having a pole position under their belt is not common for eligible drivers, much less for actual rejects who have already retired from the sport), the two Toro Rosso drivers and the new F1 Virgin in the 2nd Manor seat. That is 9 drivers not counting the 2nd HRT seat which might turn out to be just a seat with no car around it.

Hence, 2012 could be Rejects Galore in F1. Fans of this website better watch out!

Ironic when you consider its also probably the season with one of the highest number of world champions as well!

[Klon]

Yes really... I mean, the reject criteria is plainly outdated. Nowadays with the inmense level of reliability and the established order throughout a season it makes it impossible for a driver outside the top 4 teams to score higher than a 5th or 6th place, and we´re talking when races go a little bit crazy. Last year, appart from the first 2 races, we had only 5 different drivers visiting the podium... 5 drivers in 17 races!!
I don´t see why a driver scoring a couple of 10th places should escape a profile on this site, but a couple of 7th or 8th places should be more than enough to prove certain value in this era of ultra-professionalism.

Anyone with a little bit of brain can see that Jaime Alguersuari is much more of a valuable driver than Tora Takagi.

Being a reject is not about being "valueable" or not talented enough - exceptions are few and inbetween. It's about those who simply didn't got their shot at F1 success, for whatever reason. Earlier rejects suffered from simply being put in truly godawful cars (hell, even today's HRT would have been a dream to drive for Eurobrun or Coloni drivers), todays rejects get denied their shot at losing their reject status by cars upfront being more reliable. Being a reject is being robbed of a successful career by the circumstances. If, for example, Red Bull Racing weren't insisting on replacing "Barrichello" with "Webber" as synonym for "number two driver", you wouldn't even have your example because Alguersuari would drive a Red Bull and be sure-fire for doing enough to not be a reject anymore. So we could change the system in which rejects are measured, but it wouldn't change the meaning and therefore be like Maldonado's first F1 season - nearly pointless.

[Shizuka]

What if we extend the fifth and sixth to a seventh and eigth or three eigth places to escape rejectdom? There are way too less retirements than in the nineties.

[the Masked Lapwing]

See Kamui Kobayashi and Vitaly Petrov. Unrejectification is still possible, even with today's super-reliability. It's fine the way it is.

[Cynon]

Breaking out of reject status wouldn't mean as much if you make it easier to get out of reject status.

[dr-baker]

Breaking out of reject status wouldn't mean as much if you make it easier to get out of reject status.

Conversely, it is being argued that unrejectification is harder nowadays due to current reliability and domination of the top positions by the likes of Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari (plus Mercedes and Renault) and a slight shift in the criteria is needed to keep modern unrejectification equal to previous difficulty.

I am not saying that it is right or wrong, that is simply what seems to be being argued...

[DemocalypseNow]

Perhaps the criteria for unrejectification should be rectified - but not retroactively. Or at least, not retroactively beyond 5 or so years. Leave the 90s and beyond be.