2012 Silly Season

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 14 Aug 2011, 22:37

Robert Kubica is the man. He could help Ferrari have a fighting chance at the Constructors Championship.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 17 Aug 2011, 14:02

Phoenix wrote:Robert Kubica is the man. He could help Ferrari have a fighting chance at the Constructors Championship.

Not really. Because he'd be buried by Alonso the moment he threatens the unibrowmans domination.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Aug 2011, 17:58

DonTirri wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Robert Kubica is the man. He could help Ferrari have a fighting chance at the Constructors Championship.

Not really. Because he'd be buried by Alonso the moment he threatens the unibrowmans domination.

Kubica's at about the same level as Alonso in terms of overall talent - if Ferrari intend to win the Constructors' title with Alonso on the team, their best bet is to get Kubica alongside him. He's the only top-level driver Alonso could possibly tolerate in the same team.

Post by **mario** » 17 Aug 2011, 19:43

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
DonTirri wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Robert Kubica is the man. He could help Ferrari have a fighting chance at the Constructors Championship.

Not really. Because he'd be buried by Alonso the moment he threatens the unibrowmans domination.

Kubica's at about the same level as Alonso in terms of overall talent - if Ferrari intend to win the Constructors' title with Alonso on the team, their best bet is to get Kubica alongside him. He's the only top-level driver Alonso could possibly tolerate in the same team.

In the past the relationship between Alonso and Kubica has been quite close - after all, Alonso was the first driver to visit Kubica when he was hospitalised after his accident (he went there almost immediately after the news broke), and they have been on very good terms in the past.
That said, even allowing for the fact that they are quite close, coupled to the fact that Alonso would perhaps be a little more flexible towards his team mates, it might be difficult to maintain that sort of relationship within the intensely competitive environment of an F1 team (especially one which has traditionally pitched its drivers against each other and operates a two tier driver system).

The thing is, much of the talk about Kubica joining Ferrari was based on his earlier form (2007-2008 at BMW Sauber and 2010 at Renault) - but there is no way of knowing whether Kubica can recover the form that he had in the past given how severe his injuries were. Even now, several months down the line, it is unclear whether he will recover his full fitness - he's certainly not yet in a fit state to get back into the car as things stand.

More importantly, as we've seen with all too many drivers in the past, is the psychological issue of rebuilding that sense of confidence and being at ease with the car again - we've seen with many drivers that have suffered major injuries, or had a very heavy crash, that they've struggled to rebuild that same form they once had.
Some have - Schumacher's recovery after his broken leg in 1999 showed that he was still more than capable of taking victories and titles - but many others have struggled, from Herbert and Brundle with their shattered ankles to Karl Wendlinger's return after his head injuries, and even today, despite bearing few physical scars from his accident, Felipe Massa just hasn't been the same driver that he was before his accident in 2009.

Kubica has already shown in the past that he can recover from great adversity - he recovered from breaking his arm in a car accident in his Formula 3 days to come back and win at the Norisring, despite having to wear a brace and an arm full of titanium plates and bolts. Still, just getting back into an F1 car and being able to set competitive, consistent lap times will be a major challenge in itself, let alone being paired up against one of the most competitive drivers in the sport at the moment.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 18 Aug 2011, 08:59

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Kubica's at about the same level as Alonso in terms of overall talent - if Ferrari intend to win the Constructors' title with Alonso on the team, their best bet is to get Kubica alongside him. He's the only top-level driver Alonso could possibly tolerate in the same team.

mario wrote:In the past the relationship between Alonso and Kubica has been quite close - after all, Alonso was the first driver to visit Kubica when he was hospitalised after his accident (he went there almost immediately after the news broke), and they have been on very good terms in the past.
That said, even allowing for the fact that they are quite close, coupled to the fact that Alonso would perhaps be a little more flexible towards his team mates, it might be difficult to maintain that sort of relationship within the intensely competitive environment of an F1 team (especially one which has traditionally pitched its drivers against each other and operates a two tier driver system).

I refer you to an Alonso quote from 2007:

FernandoAlonso wrote:If you want to have a friend in the paddock, you should buy a dog.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 18 Aug 2011, 13:35

mario wrote:Kubica has already shown in the past that he can recover from great adversity - he recovered from breaking his arm in a car accident in his Formula 3 days to come back and win at the Norisring, despite having to wear a brace and an arm full of titanium plates and bolts. Still, just getting back into an F1 car and being able to set competitive, consistent lap times will be a major challenge in itself, let alone being paired up against one of the most competitive drivers in the sport at the moment.

I agree - I wasn't suggesting to put him immediately in Ferrari like next year. I'd say the safest thing for Ferrari to do would be wait out both Massa and Kubica's contracts (which both end in 2012 IIRC). That'll give Kubica a full year to recover in a limited pressure environment - I'd imagine Renault would want to keep Petrov, and Petrov would be a good yardstick to judge Kubica's recovery by.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 27 Aug 2011, 08:33

Webber to stay at Red Bull next season.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 27 Aug 2011, 09:41

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Kubica's at about the same level as Alonso in terms of overall talent

Well that's still highly debatable, I think. We can't properly judge Kubica until we see him under full pressure, not just blasting around with generally nothing to lose in a BMW or Renault.

Also, we musn't forget that Heidfeld outscored Kubica 150-137 in their 3.5 years together.

Post by **Londoner** » 27 Aug 2011, 10:24

Wizzie wrote:Webber to stay at Red Bull next season.

NOOOO! Why Webber, why! Another season of Vettel and Horner using him as a doormat! :cry:

That being said, hopefully he can get his shite together and challenge for the title next year.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 01 Sep 2011, 15:00

Just for information, in the first page, after the situation at post date, I've added the current 2012 grid situation which I am updating when something relevant happens. The underlined names are confirmed drivers.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 01 Sep 2011, 17:08

So now it looks like Barrichello's seat is under threat, with Williams weighing up the possibility of additional funds coming in from another driver over the experience of Rubens.

Rumoured drivers that would replace him include Sutil, Senna and daftest of them all Giedo van der Garde, who himself says he is talking to three different teams about driving in F1 in 2012, which I can almost certainly say are Virgin and HRT.

Apparently Maldonado's contribution through PDVSA next year could range from £20-£30 million, depending on how much room on the car PDVSA are given for sponsorship. Judging by the large amount of space on the car this year, I'd say there's a good few millions worth of space left to be used up! :lol:

A round up of these articles, plus others on the BBC Sport website.

And the relevant article on Autosport.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 01 Sep 2011, 19:42

AndreaModa wrote:So now it looks like Barrichello's seat is under threat, with Williams weighing up the possibility of additional funds coming in from another driver over the experience of Rubens.

Rumoured drivers that would replace him include Sutil, Senna and daftest of them all Giedo van der Garde, who himself says he is talking to three different teams about driving in F1 in 2012, which I can almost certainly say are Virgin and HRT.

Apparently Maldonado's contribution through PDVSA next year could range from £20-£30 million, depending on how much room on the car PDVSA are given for sponsorship. Judging by the large amount of space on the car this year, I'd say there's a good few millions worth of space left to be used up!

A round up of these articles, plus others on the BBC Sport website.

And the relevant article on Autosport.

If good old Rubens loses his Williams seat, I am afraid it is the end of line for him in F1... He simply does not have a place anywhere else. Sauber is already locked, Renault looks set to place Grosjean and Petrov side by side, Toro Rosso has already 4 drivers for 2 places and Force India has Hulkenberg waiting in the wings. The only other option is replacing Trulli at Lotus since both HRT (2 places) and Virgin (1 place) will look for pay drivers. It is true that Rubens is very experienced and his input in the car very valuable, but being beaten by his rookie team-mate doesn't do him any favours...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 01 Sep 2011, 20:45

DanielPT wrote:If good old Rubens loses his Williams seat, I am afraid it is the end of line for him in F1... He simply does not have a place anywhere else. Sauber is already locked, Renault looks set to place Grosjean and Petrov side by side, Toro Rosso has already 4 drivers for 2 places and Force India has Hulkenberg waiting in the wings. The only other option is replacing Trulli at Lotus since both HRT (2 places) and Virgin (1 place) will look for pay drivers. It is true that Rubens is very experienced and his input in the car very valuable, but being beaten by his rookie team-mate doesn't do him any favours...

I'm increasingly seeing Rubens as the F1 equivalent of MotoGP's Loris Capirossi. A veteran with undoubted experience who doesn't really quite know when to stop, and has missed the boat for going out on a high (Brawn GP in the case for Rubens, Ducati in the case for Capirossi).

However Loris has seen the light and is retiring at the end of this season. Will Rubens follow suit and do the same? To be honest I think he should, he only risks getting more grumpy, feeling less positive, and losing the good public opinion of him, particularly if he keeps getting beaten by the Reverend who isn't much of a yardstick at the end of the day is he really?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 01 Sep 2011, 21:44

Now that the Arabs have taken over STR, lets reflect on the likely changes ahead;

ETIHAD CEPSA FALCON BANK IPIC RACING
1. Sebastian VETTEL
2. Michael SCHUMACHER
3. Lewis HAMILTON
4. Fernando ALONSO
5. Felipe MASSA
6. Nick HEIDFELD
7. Sergio PEREZ
8. Jaime ALGUERSUARI
9. Romain GROSJEAN
10. Nico ROSBERG
11. Jules BIANCHI
12. Adrian SUTIL

The new UAE team decide to buy EVERYTHING. And then they still fail to win the championship. LOL!

RED BULL RACING
14. Mark WEBBER
15. Kamui KOBAYASHI

Thanks to the 'parting of the waves' the new UAE team provide, Webber is left with an easy stroll towards his only WDC (it's the final RBR designed by Newey, who was of course poached by IPIC on a £17 trillion per year salary). Or so he thought...until Kobayashi was announced as Vettel's replacement. Once again, Webber's dreams of being world champion are dashed by a young upstart who trounces him everywhere and waltzes to his first World Drivers Championship crown.

VODAFONE MCLAREN MERCEDES
16. Jenson BUTTON
17. Paul DI RESTA

Di Resta is drafted in to replace the departed Hamilton. He goes on to become Webber's only real threat for the title.

PETRONAS MERCEDES GRAND PRIX
18. Ralf SCHUMACHER
19. Regner VAN DER ZANDE

One Schumacher is replaced by another. Him and rookie team-mate van der Zande struggle with a sh*tbox of a car. Ralf still finishes behind Michael in the championship and at most races despite being undisputed #1 at a team for the first time in his life.

LADA ANZHI MAKHACHKALA RACING
20. Vitaly PETROV
21. Mikhail ALESHIN

Despite having endless amounts of money, Suleyman Kerimou buys his way into the F1 circus too late to sign any big names at big prices, as the Arabs had already beaten him to them. Therefore he goes with an all-Russian lineup, with Renault firepower rebadged as Ladas.

SAUBER FERRARI
22. Esteban GUTIERREZ
23. Pastor MALDONADO

Pastor has more money than you. Can you confirm you understand the message?

FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
24. Nico HULKENBERG
25. Luca FILIPPI

Just...whatever. You don't have Fisichella, Sutil or Di Resta anymore, so we don't care.

FERRARI
27. Takuma SATO
28. Andre LOTTERER

The surpruise package of the season, despite a seemingly average lineup, Sato finally delivers the potential he had all alone, and Lotterer proves to be a class act. 3rd and 5th in the drivers championship is reasonable reward for their efforts

AIRASIA CATERHAM RACING
29. Heikki KOVALAINEN
30. Jarno TRULLI

Same old same old. Propping up the back of the grid, for reasons explained below.

Williams, Virgin Racing and HRT all go home. The sport is an unbalanced mess with the sudden injection of money, and Rupert Murdoch buys worldwide broadcasting rights to screw the thing right up even more. F1 dies a slow and painful death. As does Rupert Murdoch, hopefully.

The end.

...

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 01 Sep 2011, 21:54

Maldonado has finished in front of Barrichello two times on race day so far and scored his first point - and everyone goes nuts about Barrichello being "beaten" and about to retire. And people on the internet wonder why nobody takes them seriously. :roll:

It is only a matter of time until Maldonado and Barrichello are confirmed for 2012, it's not like this is the first season where Williams has taken its time.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 01 Sep 2011, 22:25

The political situation in Venezuela is never too stable... and right now President Chávez is fighting against a cancer, which makes things worse. I say this because I believe Williams' survival right now completely depends on PDVSA money, and I don't think that's a confortable position to be in because of the aforementioned reasons.

Frentzen127 · Post by **Frentzen127** » 01 Sep 2011, 22:38

Lets not forget the PDVSA money depends on Chavez as well. If he goes belly up the deal goes belly up.
Apparently it has to do because Maldonado is a fervent Chavist. Or maybe the other way around, he is a fervent Chavist because Chavez gives him the juice.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 02 Sep 2011, 00:24

Klon wrote:Maldonado has finished in front of Barrichello two times on race day so far and scored his first point - and everyone goes nuts about Barrichello being "beaten" and about to retire. And people on the internet wonder why nobody takes them seriously.

It is only a matter of time until Maldonado and Barrichello are confirmed for 2012, it's not like this is the first season where Williams has taken its time.

If we look at recent qualifying efforts, Maldonado has been getting the better of Rubens, and he looks set to keep getting the better of Rubens, he has consistently been close to or outqualified him for the last few races. I think Williams are slightly bored of Rubens Barrichello.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 02 Sep 2011, 00:25

Klon wrote:Maldonado has finished in front of Barrichello two times on race day so far and scored his first point - and everyone goes nuts about Barrichello being "beaten" and about to retire. And people on the internet wonder why nobody takes them seriously.

It is only a matter of time until Maldonado and Barrichello are confirmed for 2012, it's not like this is the first season where Williams has taken its time.

No it's not speculation on that part. I for one didn't have a clue about Pastor's latest results to be quite honest, I'm merely commenting on what the article and Barrichello himself says, and that is that it appears his seat could be under threat with Williams looking at the potential of having another driver with sponsorship in his place. When most of the top drivers are already confirmed for next year, you'd expect if the team were happy with Rubens' performance that his confirmation for 2012 would have been a formality. Now it still might be that way but to still not even have discussed it yet confirms something must be amiss.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 02 Sep 2011, 05:13

Predictions/fantasy grid:

Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
McLaren - Button, Hamilton
Ferrari - Alonso, Rosberg
Mercedes - Schumacher, di Resta
Renault - Petrov, Kubica
Sauber - Kobayashi, Perez
Force India - van der Garde, Hulkenberg
UAE (Toro Rosso) - Massa, Alguersuari
Williams - Sutil, Maldonado
Virgin - Glock, Senna
Hispania - Ricciardo, Liuzzi
Fernandes - Kovalainen, Grosjean

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 02 Sep 2011, 08:08

kostas22 wrote:Now that the Arabs have taken over STR, lets reflect on the likely changes ahead;

ETIHAD CEPSA FALCON BANK IPIC RACING
1. Sebastian VETTEL
2. Michael SCHUMACHER
3. Lewis HAMILTON
4. Fernando ALONSO
5. Felipe MASSA
6. Nick HEIDFELD
7. Sergio PEREZ
8. Jaime ALGUERSUARI
9. Romain GROSJEAN
10. Nico ROSBERG
11. Jules BIANCHI
12. Adrian SUTIL

The new UAE team decide to buy EVERYTHING. And then they still fail to win the championship. LOL!

And how the bathplug will you separate twelve cars from each other? I mean, will their front wing have a different colour on all twelve cars? :lol:

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 02 Sep 2011, 08:19

I reckon whoever of Grosjean and Senna doesn't get the 2012 Renault drive may well go to Williams.

It would certainly be quite poignant for Bruno Senna to go to Williams.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 02 Sep 2011, 09:28

Shizuka wrote:And how the bathplug will you separate twelve cars from each other? I mean, will their front wing have a different colour on all twelve cars?

Mandatory huge numbers. The way the Honda RA107 had, given that there was nothing else to put on the car, or - you know, how it always used to be in the good old days.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Sep 2011, 09:39

Klon wrote:Maldonado has finished in front of Barrichello two times on race day so far and scored his first point - and everyone goes nuts about Barrichello being "beaten" and about to retire. And people on the internet wonder why nobody takes them seriously.

It is only a matter of time until Maldonado and Barrichello are confirmed for 2012, it's not like this is the first season where Williams has taken its time.

Well no one is saying that Rubens is being consistently beaten by Maldonado which I suppose it is what you meant, but truth is that Maldonado is starting to match Rubens and that is not good for him. If Maldonado is paying and Rubens is being paid and there is not much separating them results and performance wise, surely, even for all Rubens experience and technical nous, it isn't really worth it. Williams are being beaten by both Toro Rosso and Sauber and their driver line-ups don't make a Rubens in terms of experience. Maldonado is a rookie, still young, has an improvement margin and if he occasionally beats Rubens (don't forget that if it wasn't for that racing incident with Hamilton in Monaco he would probably be behind Maldonado overall) he might make the team realise that driver experience is not worth sponsorship money. Now, that is what people are on about. It is not Barrichello bashing. It's reality.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 02 Sep 2011, 11:17

It seems to be like Rubens at Williams looks to be in a similar situation as Heidfeld was at Renault in relation to their paying teammates. Don't think it looks good for Rubens either sadly.

Post by **mario** » 02 Sep 2011, 12:59

DanielPT wrote:
Klon wrote:Maldonado has finished in front of Barrichello two times on race day so far and scored his first point - and everyone goes nuts about Barrichello being "beaten" and about to retire. And people on the internet wonder why nobody takes them seriously.

It is only a matter of time until Maldonado and Barrichello are confirmed for 2012, it's not like this is the first season where Williams has taken its time.

Well no one is saying that Rubens is being consistently beaten by Maldonado which I suppose it is what you meant, but truth is that Maldonado is starting to match Rubens and that is not good for him. If Maldonado is paying and Rubens is being paid and there is not much separating them results and performance wise, surely, even for all Rubens experience and technical nous, it isn't really worth it. Williams are being beaten by both Toro Rosso and Sauber and their driver line-ups don't make a Rubens in terms of experience. Maldonado is a rookie, still young, has an improvement margin and if he occasionally beats Rubens (don't forget that if it wasn't for that racing incident with Hamilton in Monaco he would probably be behind Maldonado overall) he might make the team realise that driver experience is not worth sponsorship money. Now, that is what people are on about. It is not Barrichello bashing. It's reality.

There is also the issue that, despite the fact that Maldonado's PDVSA sponsorship is substantial, Williams might be in a worse financial position next year because they are so far down the order in the WCC - realistically, unless both drivers finish freakishly high in the results multiple times, 9th in the WCC is the best they can hope for, and that could easily cost them several tens of millions of dollars compared to last year.
So, even though Rubens might have some value to the team, experience alone cannot pay the bills, and his recent comments sound like the words of a man who knows that his chances of staying on are diminishing - the only thing that might save his seat would be if those pay drivers end up being snapped up by other teams (Renault may stick with their Senna-Petrov line up, whilst van der Garde could well go to one of the new teams and Sutil goes to a larger team, like Mercedes, as a test driver).

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 03 Sep 2011, 16:35

15th February, 2012. Pre-season testing is imminent. Williams announce that their new driver will be...

...Sakon Yamamoto. Rubens fails to turn up to the announcement of his replacement, because there will just be a lot of blah blah blah blah blah and he doesn't want to hear that.

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 04 Sep 2011, 07:09

The silly season is not really silly this season, with all of the 'big guns' just about filled. My take:

Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
McLaren - Button, Hamilton
Ferrari - Alonso, Massa
Mercedes - Schumacher, Rosberg
Renault - Petrov, Senna*
Sauber - Kobayashi, Perez
Force India - di Resta, Hulkenberg
STR- Buemi , Alguersuari
Williams - Sutil, Maldonado
Virgin - Glock, Paffett
Hispania - Ricciardo, Liuzzi
Lotus - Kovalainen, Van de Gaarde

Kubica sadly has not recovered 100%, so he is still out for the start of 2012. Hulkenberg impresses highly on Fridays, and earns himself a drive at Force India. Adrian Sutil takes his budget to Williams. Wih Virgin's deal to use McLaren technology, Gary Paffett gets a drive, and Van de Gaarde joins Lotus eager to show his skills. Red Bull continue to support Ricciardo, alongside Liuzzi. Grosjean and Senna swap seats regulary during the season. Karthikeyan returns to Williams as a Friday tester, bringing Tata funding.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 04 Sep 2011, 08:48

Given Sutil's current form, he isn't going anywhere. Nothing that Nico could possibly do from Friday practice alone could get him Sutil's seat.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Sep 2011, 12:17

Peter wrote:Given Sutil's current form, he isn't going anywhere.

That's funny, because he has been strongly linked to a Williams drive.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 04 Sep 2011, 12:37

Unless his contract is not being renewed that would be a terrible backwards step for Sutil

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 04 Sep 2011, 13:14

Not necessarily and I could see why he would go to Williams, because let's face it, for all that Force India have achieved since taking over Spyker, it's not really that much, barring the pole and second place for Fisi at Spa in 2009. Williams, despite their issues, still have at their disposal a good facility, with strong management and a sound technical team that has been built up over the years. With new employees coming in for next year in the form of Mike Coughlan and others, it could possibly be the opportunity for the team to reverse the downward trend. With Sutil never really having gone anywhere at Force India, this could be his chance to prove he can cut it at the next level, driving in a good car backed by a good team and regularly making it into Q3 and finishing in the points.

It would be a big gamble for him, but what's he got to loose? It's clear with Force India's staff turnover rate that they aren't going anywhere any time soon. They look solid midfield runners at best for the next few seasons at least.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Sep 2011, 22:03

AndreaModa wrote:Not necessarily and I could see why he would go to Williams, because let's face it, for all that Force India have achieved since taking over Spyker, it's not really that much, barring the pole and second place for Fisi at Spa in 2009. Williams, despite their issues, still have at their disposal a good facility, with strong management and a sound technical team that has been built up over the years. With new employees coming in for next year in the form of Mike Coughlan and others, it could possibly be the opportunity for the team to reverse the downward trend. With Sutil never really having gone anywhere at Force India, this could be his chance to prove he can cut it at the next level, driving in a good car backed by a good team and regularly making it into Q3 and finishing in the points.

It would be a big gamble for him, but what's he got to loose? It's clear with Force India's staff turnover rate that they aren't going anywhere any time soon. They look solid midfield runners at best for the next few seasons at least.

Would you rather jump onto the Titanic while it's sinking or a wee dinghy with a 10hp outboard motor that will chug along nicely all the way back to shore? That's essentially the choice. Once upon a time I bet people though Lotus were too big and too important to die, but they too slid into oblivion. The financial problems will come once Maldonado leaves/loses his superlicense/Chavez is overthrown as leader of Venezuela.

The way I could see it recovering isn't really possible. A ridiculously high calibre driver turns up at Williams to try and turn the team around a-la-Schumacher 1996. With him he brings some key tech staff from his old team. The only problem is the clear number one stats would be compromised by the fact the number #2 driver (Maldonado) would be bringing in all the dosh.

Lets say Mark Webber finally gets fed up of being number two at Red Bull and moves to Williams to become the #1 driver, taking with him a selection of key Red Bull technical staff to Grove. With a new driver and new technical staff changing the design ethos of the new Williamses they become more competitive again, and Webber becomes more competitive as a driver again (I think the scenario would suit his peak psychological performance, an underdog with something to prove again - that he is still one of the best and WIlliams can become the best again).

Or perhaps I am just dreaming. I don't want Williams to die but thats how I see it ending up just now...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 Sep 2011, 01:57

sswishbone wrote:Unless his contract is not being renewed that would be a terrible backwards step for Sutil

True, but it may hold some appeal. For one, Williams have reshuffled their techncial staff; Sam Michael is going and there have been a few new appointments. Perhaps they recoginse that recovering from their dismal performances will take some time, much longer than Barrichello has left in him. Secondly, it's Williams - after Ferrari and McLaren, they're probably the most famous team on the grid. Thirdly, Sutil is sponsored by Medion, who may find the mostly-blank Williams more appealing than the crowded Force India in terms of sponsorship, and so commit more money to the team. But perhaps most importantly, Sutil may feel it is time or a change; 2011 is his sixth year with the team and his fifth as a racing driver (he was test driver for Midland/Spyker in 2006). One of the big factors that influenced Jenson Button's move to McLaren was that he had been with BAR/Honda/Brawn for several years, and he wanted a new environment to work in. That really seems to have worked out for him, because we've seen some brilliant driving from JB - Monza 2010, Montreal 2011 and Spa 2011 all stand out. A new team might help Sutil to focus a little more.

And if Williams have a long-term plan to get back to the front of the grid, and if the want Adrian Sutil to lead the team in achieving that, then that's one hell of a legacy that Adrian Sutil will have.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 05 Sep 2011, 02:04

Captain Hammer wrote:
sswishbone wrote:Unless his contract is not being renewed that would be a terrible backwards step for Sutil

True, but it may hold some appeal. For one, Williams have reshuffled their techncial staff; Sam Michael is going and there have been a few new appointments. Perhaps they recoginse that recovering from their dismal performances will take some time, much longer than Barrichello has left in him. Secondly, it's Williams - after Ferrari and McLaren, they're probably the most famous team on the grid. Thirdly, Sutil is sponsored by Medion, who may find the mostly-blank Williams more appealing than the crowded Force India in terms of sponsorship, and so commit more money to the team. But perhaps most importantly, Sutil may feel it is time or a change; 2011 is his sixth year with the team and his fifth as a racing driver (he was test driver for Midland/Spyker in 2006). One of the big factors that influenced Jenson Button's move to McLaren was that he had been with BAR/Honda/Brawn for several years, and he wanted a new environment to work in. That really seems to have worked out for him, because we've seen some brilliant driving from JB - Monza 2010, Montreal 2011 and Spa 2011 all stand out. A new team might help Sutil to focus a little more.

And if Williams have a long-term plan to get back to the front of the grid, and if the want Adrian Sutil to lead the team in achieving that, then that's one hell of a legacy that Adrian Sutil will have.

After reading all that I want the move to happen just because it would make an awesome F1 story for years to come if he can pull it off.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 05 Sep 2011, 05:38

As possibly the forums biggest Sutil fan, I'd love to see him at Williams next year. He will have a massive opportunity to raise his profile, especially as a proper team leader. Although Williams appear to be slowly dying, they have the technical knowledge to seriously improve the car. Are Williams a true privateer team still? I think that's sadly the man reason why they'd slipped so far back in recent years.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 05 Sep 2011, 06:54

Don't want to be seen as killing the buzz here but remember Damon Hill in 1997? I think Sutil's move would be exactly the same

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 05 Sep 2011, 11:58

sswishbone wrote:Don't want to be seen as killing the buzz here but remember Damon Hill in 1997? I think Sutil's move would be exactly the same

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 05 Sep 2011, 13:19

sswishbone wrote:Don't want to be seen as killing the buzz here but remember Damon Hill in 1997? I think Sutil's move would be exactly the same

Which move do you mean, from Williams to Arrows or from Arrows to Jordan?

If you mean leaving Williams, I'm pretty sure he was sacked!

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 05 Sep 2011, 18:40

He was. He wanted his salary doubled as World Champion (IIRC), but Sir Frank showed the door instead.