Grand Prix Rejects

Annoyed because Hulk has missed out on his first podium yet again, when he will get it?
Anyway, another super driver by him, no doubt about it.

good_Ralf wrote:

apple2009 wrote:Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, and Raikkonen (in that order).

Annoyed because Hulk has missed out on his first podium yet again, when he will get it?

I don't know what you mean.

The fans who weren't watching Vettel leading have to admit that was a great race and for us probably a lot harder to decide who wins ROTR. i can't help but feel though as if Hulkenberg's performances are casting a bit more doubt over Vettel. It's a bit like Lewis in 2007 to a lesser extent for Seb considering he has been in a situation of battling through the field in Abu Dhabi last year but while driving out in front to victory in clearly one of if not the best car while Hulk drags a Sauber which for most of the year has been 7th/8th quickest at best to a 5th and 4th will only gives Vettel's critics more ammunition to fire at him about his skills in combat.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:The fans who weren't watching Vettel leading have to admit that was a great race and for us probably a lot harder to decide who wins ROTR. i can't help but feel though as if Hulkenberg's performances are casting a bit more doubt over Vettel. It's a bit like Lewis in 2007 to a lesser extent for Seb considering he has been in a situation of battling through the field in Abu Dhabi last year but while driving out in front to clearly in clearly one of if not the best cars while Hulk drags a Sauber which for most of the year has been 7th/8th quickest at best to a 5th and 4th will only gives Vettel's critics more ammunition to fire at him about his skills in combat.

Well it was a truly class drive, I don't get how that relates to Vettel.

SgtPepper wrote:

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:The fans who weren't watching Vettel leading have to admit that was a great race and for us probably a lot harder to decide who wins ROTR. i can't help but feel though as if Hulkenberg's performances are casting a bit more doubt over Vettel. It's a bit like Lewis in 2007 to a lesser extent for Seb considering he has been in a situation of battling through the field in Abu Dhabi last year but while driving out in front to clearly in clearly one of if not the best cars while Hulk drags a Sauber which for most of the year has been 7th/8th quickest at best to a 5th and 4th will only gives Vettel's critics more ammunition to fire at him about his skills in combat.

Well it was a truly class drive, I don't get how that relates to Vettel.

Hulk's drive was class for sure but considering Vettel has spent about 70% of his career driving a Red Bull from pole to win while Hulk has had a pole with Williams, Led in a Force India and in a Sauber and qualified the car 3rd from out of the blue in Monza one wonders if Vettel would have been able to do the same

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:The fans who weren't watching Vettel leading have to admit that was a great race and for us probably a lot harder to decide who wins ROTR. i can't help but feel though as if Hulkenberg's performances are casting a bit more doubt over Vettel. It's a bit like Lewis in 2007 to a lesser extent for Seb considering he has been in a situation of battling through the field in Abu Dhabi last year but while driving out in front to clearly in clearly one of if not the best cars while Hulk drags a Sauber which for most of the year has been 7th/8th quickest at best to a 5th and 4th will only gives Vettel's critics more ammunition to fire at him about his skills in combat.

Well it was a truly class drive, I don't get how that relates to Vettel.

Hulk's drive was class for sure but considering Vettel has spent about 70% of his career driving a Red Bull from pole to win while Hulk has had a pole with Williams, Led in a Force India and in a Sauber and qualified the car 3rd from out of the blue in Monza one wonders if Vettel would have been able to do the same

Italy. 2008. Pole. Win.

Bathplug.

He may be talented, but Hulkenberg: hasn't won a race in a car that was (at absolute best) the fifth-best car on the grid, and Vettel has; hasn't consistently dragged excellent results out of a crap car, which Vettel has; hasn't dragged said excellent results out of a crap car when he wasn't being forced to prove himself, and Vettel has.

I'm not saying that Hulkenberg isn't talented, but to suggest that two standout drives from him casts doubt on Vettel's talent is not just barking up the wrong tree; it's scaling an Acacia when you were tasked with finding a Siberian conifer.

Ben Gilbert wrote:

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:
Well it was a truly class drive, I don't get how that relates to Vettel.

Hulk's drive was class for sure but considering Vettel has spent about 70% of his career driving a Red Bull from pole to win while Hulk has had a pole with Williams, Led in a Force India and in a Sauber and qualified the car 3rd from out of the blue in Monza one wonders if Vettel would have been able to do the same

Italy. 2008. Pole. Win.

Bathplug.

Yes, but Hulkenberg: hasn't won a race in a car that was (at absolute best) the fifth-best car on the grid, and Vettel has; hasn't consistently dragged excellent results out of a crap car, which Vettel has; hasn't dragged said excellent results out of a crap car when he wasn't being forced to prove himself, and Vettel has.

In what universe was the 2008 Toro Rosso worse than the 5th best car on the grid?

Ben Gilbert wrote:Italy. 2008. Pole. Win.

Bathplug.

He may be talented, but Hulkenberg: hasn't won a race in a car that was (at absolute best) the fifth-best car on the grid, and Vettel has; hasn't consistently dragged excellent results out of a crap car, which Vettel has; hasn't dragged said excellent results out of a crap car when he wasn't being forced to prove himself, and Vettel has.

I'm not saying that Hulkenberg isn't talented, but to suggest that two standout drives from him casts doubt on Vettel's talent is not just barking up the wrong tree; it's scaling an Acacia when you were tasked with finding a Siberian conifer.

I'm sure if those very specific set of circumstances were to also bless Hulkenberg, he could have also easily had a similar 2008 style win. And this sort of drive is infinitely superior to the two crashes/luck ridden drive in Abu Dhabi 2012.

However, as I originally stated, Hulk's amazing drive has NOTHING to do with Vettel today. It was a great drive, and a really entertaining race, very glad I woke up at 7am for it. I was starting to get weary and cynical of the sport, but my optimism has been renewed

Wizzie wrote:In what universe was the 2008 Toro Rosso worse than the 5th best car on the grid?

The universe where Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, BMW Sauber and Toyota competed.

SgtPepper wrote:

Ben Gilbert wrote:Italy. 2008. Pole. Win.

Bathplug.

He may be talented, but Hulkenberg: hasn't won a race in a car that was (at absolute best) the fifth-best car on the grid, and Vettel has; hasn't consistently dragged excellent results out of a crap car, which Vettel has; hasn't dragged said excellent results out of a crap car when he wasn't being forced to prove himself, and Vettel has.

I'm not saying that Hulkenberg isn't talented, but to suggest that two standout drives from him casts doubt on Vettel's talent is not just barking up the wrong tree; it's scaling an Acacia when you were tasked with finding a Siberian conifer.

I'm sure if those very specific set of circumstances were to also bless Hulkenberg, he could have also easily had a similar 2008 style win. And this sort of drive is infinitely superior to the two crashes/luck ridden drive in Abu Dhabi 2012.

However, as I originally stated, Hulk's amazing drive has NOTHING to do with Vettel today. It was a great drive, and a really entertaining race, very glad I woke up at 7am for it

To be fair the pass on Button for 3rd at the end was one of the best that year

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

SgtPepper wrote:

Ben Gilbert wrote:Italy. 2008. Pole. Win.

Bathplug.

He may be talented, but Hulkenberg: hasn't won a race in a car that was (at absolute best) the fifth-best car on the grid, and Vettel has; hasn't consistently dragged excellent results out of a crap car, which Vettel has; hasn't dragged said excellent results out of a crap car when he wasn't being forced to prove himself, and Vettel has.

I'm not saying that Hulkenberg isn't talented, but to suggest that two standout drives from him casts doubt on Vettel's talent is not just barking up the wrong tree; it's scaling an Acacia when you were tasked with finding a Siberian conifer.

I'm sure if those very specific set of circumstances were to also bless Hulkenberg, he could have also easily had a similar 2008 style win. And this sort of drive is infinitely superior to the two crashes/luck ridden drive in Abu Dhabi 2012.

However, as I originally stated, Hulk's amazing drive has NOTHING to do with Vettel today. It was a great drive, and a really entertaining race, very glad I woke up at 7am for it

To be fair the pass on Button for 3rd at the end was one of the best that year

It was a decent pass, but I really wouldn't rate it as one of the best.

Ben Gilbert wrote:

Wizzie wrote:In what universe was the 2008 Toro Rosso worse than the 5th best car on the grid?

The universe where Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, BMW Sauber and Toyota competed.

Not buying it, at all. Renault only really woke up in the last third of the year, and if Bourdais actually had any luck, they would have finished ahead of Toyota in the championship. The fact that Vettel consistently scored points in it showed it was a fundamentally decent package which he got the absolute maximum out of week in, week out from Monaco onwards when they finally got the new car.

I've noticed throughout years of watching F1 that Fernando Alonso has big problems with overtaking, lol. Great race, i enjoy every one where Alonso and Hamilton's overratedness is so clearly shown. Championship will go not just to the best car, but also to the best driver in terms of raw talent, Vettel. Grosjean starting to mature.

Gvozdenovic wrote:I've noticed throughout years of watching F1 that Fernando Alonso has big problems with overtaking, lol. Great race, i enjoy every one where Alonso and Hamilton's overratedness is so clearly shown. Championship will go not just to the best car, but also to the best driver in terms of raw talent, Vettel. Grosjean starting to mature.

Do you mean the Alonso who won from 11th and 9th last year?

I reckon that after today, there are just grounds for dumping Korea from next year's calendar, particularly if they want to trim it back down to 20 races. If there are only 20 races next year, and they go to Korea, I will be surprised.

Memorable GP, though!

dr-baker wrote:I reckon that after today, there are just grounds for dumping Korea from next year's calendar, particularly if they want to trim it back down to 20 races. If there are only 20 races next year, and they go to Korea, I will be surprised.

Memorable GP, though!

Some of the farces there can't have helped with the rain in 2010 and the incompetent marshals who took about 8 laps to move Rosberg's Merc and then the JeepGate this year. I wouldn't be sad to see it go.

Ferrim wrote:Do you mean the Alonso who won from 11th and 9th last year?

I mean Alonso who lost championship because he drove one hour behind Petrov. And those two attempts to pass Hamilton at the end of the race, were especially facepalming.

Due to Hamilton swearing on the pit radio, he has been given a 10 place grid penalty. More details here: http://tinyurl.com/c7s95xp

Wizzie wrote:

Ben Gilbert wrote:

Wizzie wrote:In what universe was the 2008 Toro Rosso worse than the 5th best car on the grid?

The universe where Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, BMW Sauber and Toyota competed.

Not buying it, at all. Renault only really woke up in the last third of the year, and if Bourdais actually had any luck, they would have finished ahead of Toyota in the championship. The fact that Vettel consistently scored points in it showed it was a fundamentally decent package which he got the absolute maximum out of week in, week out from Monaco onwards when they finally got the new car.

Okay, I did state that rather simplistically, there, but I still disagree with you on those points. If Renault only waking up in the last-third of the year is so vital for Vettel's success, then why did Vettel only hit his majori scoring stride in the same timeframe? As for Bourdais, well... my memory is a little hazy for much of the year, but looking at the raw lap charts doesn't support that.

Monaco: Bourdais crashed out after out-qualifying Vettel. Not the only driver to do so, but it's difficult to blame back luck when so many were able to avoid the wall. Vettel rose to fifth.
Canada: Bourdais out-qualified Vettel again, but he only stayed ahead for four laps. While Bourdais languished, never once cracking the top ten, Vettel hung around the points for much of the race and eventually took eighth, having set a faster best lap than Bourdais.
France: Bourdais could claim to be unlucky, having been hit by Button early, but given that both McLarens, Ferraris, Toyotas, Renaults, BMW Saubers and Red Bulls out-qualified both Toro Rossos, and only Heidfeld failed to outfinish Vettel, I doubt he would have made any impression on the points. Vettel outqualified Bourdais, but remained in the midfield for most of the afternoon.
Britain: Vettel qualified eighth and was taken out early in a collision with Coulthard. Bourdais qualified thirteenth, albeit only two tenths off Vettel in Q2, and never made it higher than eleventh.
Germany: Bourdais was always about four places behind Vettel in the race, barring the one lap when Vettel had pitted and he hadn't, after being four tenths back in Q2, remaining fifteenth while Vettel made it to Q3. Vettel also made it into the points; Bourdais never got close.
Hungary: Vettel outqualified Bourdais by eight places, albeit with the aid of a pentalty, but also by eight tenths of a second. However, this gap is eliminated by the end of the opening lap, and Vettel would later retire. Bourdais was held up in the pits by fuel fires, but, again, given that all points scorers also outqualified both Toro Rossos, and that this is Hungary, I doubt points were on the offer.
Valencia: Both Toro Rossos made it into Q3; Vettel 6th, Bourdais 10th. Both finished where they started. Vettel again had the best lap.
Belgium: Ah, yes, the race where Bourdais could have had a podium were it not for the dastardly drivers who passed him on inters! No. Bourdais was fourth with one lap to go, behind Alonso (who didn't get promoted after Hamilton's penalty) and ahead of Vettel, Kubica and Heidfeld, of whom only the latter had stopped for intermediate tyres. Bourdais not only watched Heidfeld breeze by, but then put up no resistence as Vettel and Kubica blasted past on the same dry tyres as him. Not lack of luck; lack of skill and bravery.
Italy: Nine tenths behind Vettel in qualifying; stalled on the grid. Though that was from fourth place, so we'll chalk that as anywhere between one and eight points lost, to be generous.
Singapore: Eleven spots behind Vettel in qualifying, 1.3 seconds slower in Q1 and dropped out, while Vettel made it into Q3. Bourdais did figure in the points, though: for one lap, during the safety car period, which was also the only lap he ran ahead of an eventual point-scorer. Vettel never dropped out of the top ten, hung around in the points for most of the race, and finished fifth.
Japan: Yes. Bourdais was unlucky here. He was only one spot behind Vettel in qualifying, but out-drove him in the race, lead three laps and, depsite the tangling with Massa, went on to finish sixth. Five seconds and one spot ahead of Vettel; ten seconds behind Trulli, who he was behind when he collided with Massa. That's three points lost, at least.
China: Collided with Trulli at the first corner in a desperate dive, throwing away a decent chance of points after qualifying eighth, never cracking the top-ten thereafter in the race. Vettel also finished outside the points.
Brazil: Bit difficult to determine, this one. Again, Bourdais qualified close to Vettel, albeit behind, as both Toro Rossos made it to Q3. Bourdais pitted for dries early on, alongside Timo Glock, while Vettel stayed out as the track continued to dry. This was the closest the Toro Rossos would be during the race; while Vettel interfered with the battle for the Championship and eventually finished fourth, Bourdais battled with the Hondas for most of the rest of the race, and eventually settled on fourteenth. However, Bourdais was with Glock early on in the race, albeit behind him, and suddenly dropped five spots on the twentieth lap. As I am unsure to whether this was a pitstop, it not being covered on whatever replays I can find, I'll give Bourdais the benefit of the doubt and say that he could have finished behind Glock: in seventh.

By my reckoning, that makes anywhere between six and thirteen points lost by Bourdais. Toyota finished seventeen points ahead of Toro Rosso in 2008, and, again by my reckoning, Toyota would have lost exactly one point if Bourdais had been luckier (by Trulli finishing ninth and not eighth in Brazil). Adding in the two points Bourdais did score in Belgium, that makes up fifteen points that could have been his with the new Toro Rosso, a car with which Vettel scored thirty-five points.

But that's not quite an accurate picture, given Toyota scored more than Toro Rosso before the new car arrived; after that point, Toyota outscored Toro Rosso by twelve points.

And nor is that the end of it. Looking back across the results of that season, McLaren, Ferrari and BMW Sauber are an obvious leading trio, with Williams, Honda and Force India (plus Super Aguri) bringing up the rear, leaving fourth to seventh undecided. Personally, I don't think there was a single point where the Renault was a distinctly worse car than the Toro Rosso, unless Alonso was simply outperforming it to a ludicrous degree, and the Red Bull was definitely ahead until France, after which they began to drop back. Being about level, or very slightly behind, the Toyota, I would say that the new Toro Rosso hovered between seventh and fifth best over the year, only achieving the latter around Belgium.

But that's just my opinion, and I think I may have dragged this off-topic, somewhat.

To the original question: Yes, Hulkenberg is doing very well, and easily deserves a top drive for next year. No, I do not think his achievements matter one iota with regards to Vettel's, particularly as Guttierez does not provide a strong yardstick for where the Sauber actually is (other than 'it isn't a good car').

Gvozdenovic wrote:I've noticed throughout years of watching F1 that Fernando Alonso has big problems with overtaking, lol. Great race, i enjoy every one where Alonso and Hamilton's overratedness is so clearly shown. Championship will go not just to the best car, but also to the best driver in terms of raw talent, Vettel. Grosjean starting to mature.

Eh?

These odious perceptions of driver "under-performance" are becoming increasingly enervating. Races and championships are won by integrated packages, with the efficacy of every component within the system imperative to success. A driver, even a great driver, even a legendary driver, can only compensate for the inherent failings within a package to a certain extent.

I have no intention of discrediting the abilities and achievements of Sebastian Vettel, despite my personal enmity towards the man, but a very significant proportion of his success must be attributed to the performance of his package, namely the Newey designed RB9 and the Red Bull Racing organization on the whole. Hamilton's Mercedes was conspicuously lacking traction at Yeongam, fatally compromising the ever critical exit speed of the car and subsequently culminating in his failure to pass Hulkenberg, whilst Alonso's Ferrari has struggled in producing comparative downforce relative to the Mercedes and the Red Bulls all year, again fatally compromising his performance. To inveigh two drivers who have reaffirmed their capabilities time and time again over their careers, and to employ the holistic success of the Red Bull package as a justification for the denunciation no less, is an incredibly astigmatic and parochial thing to do.

In other news, the fire truck imbroglio/moment of unmitigated magnificence was not a wholly unilateral decision made by the local marshals. The FIA did authorize the deployment of the truck, but did not authorize the timing of the deployment, which inadvertently led to the Jeep enjoying its fifteen minutes of fame.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110402

What a brilliant race! Lots of action and intense battles for position! Now Sauber is ahead of Toro Rosso in the constructors! Very interesting!

I think Perez's blown tyre was caused by his lockup beforehand, or maybe a puncture, or both, so I don't think Pirelli are to blame. He looked good for more points today. He was more like his former self today. McLaren's troubles really have lowered his value quite a lot.

How did Rosberg's front wing suddenly get deformed? Very bizarre!

Not too sure whose self-inflicted off-track incident was more rejectworthy, Di Resta's or Ricciardo's... Ricciardo's incident means that McLaren gets a double points finish Ricciardo looked good for a top-5 finish, though, shame he had lost it, in a way.

Grosjean looked good for 2nd place, until the first safety car, then Raikkonen got the advantage at the start... there was great racing after the safety car came in... until Webber got hit by Sutil... never knew the chassis could ignite that quickly

I'd say it was a fantastic race all around! Hopefully we'll get more of the same in Japan

I'm going to guess the change in pressure affecting Rosberg whilst he was coming out of Hamilton's slipstream had something to do with it, but I could be a mile away with that. (edit - according to Ted Kravitz the lugnut that holds the nose in place managed to fail, causing the nose to droop like a diseased willow.)

Thoroughly enjoyable race; although it was a comedy of errors in many respects, I think it's great to see drivers like Grosjean and Hulkenberg really shining. We got to see some really close action too, not your classic Korea borefest by any stretch!

Gvozdenovic wrote:Grosjean starting to mature.

He is. At the start of this year, he slowed down to drive more consistently (like drivers such as Massa and Sato) and in races such as Australia and China, he slumped back rather than charged forward. But since Germany, he has more often than not driven with his 2012 level of speed with far more consistency and is now frequently outpacing Raikkonen in qualifying. The only race which he made visible errors was Hungary, on the day before his son Sacha was born.

Gvozdenovic wrote:

Ferrim wrote:Do you mean the Alonso who won from 11th and 9th last year?

I mean Alonso who lost championship because he drove one hour behind Petrov. And those two attempts to pass Hamilton at the end of the race, were especially facepalming.

Petrov performed quite strongly in the 2010 Abu Dhabi GP though - he was quicker than Kubica in qualifying and finished only four seconds behind Kubica in the race, so Petrov's pace during the race was relatively strong. Add to that the fact that Petrov had a straight line speed advantage and the fact that large sections of the track have a single, and very narrow, racing line (especially in the final sector, where, because the drivers are having to trail brake into the corner, it is very difficult to out brake or out turn a rival) and a relatively limited pace advantage for Alonso, and you have a situation where most drivers would have struggled to pass.

However, I don't think that there is any real value in dredging up the past - what happened three years ago cannot be altered, and it is better to look to what happened today on its own merits.

good_Ralf wrote:

Gvozdenovic wrote:Grosjean starting to mature.

He is. At the start of this year, he slowed down to drive more consistently (like drivers such as Massa and Sato) and in races such as Australia and China, he slumped back rather than charged forward. But since Germany, he has more often than not driven with his 2012 level of speed with far more consistency and is now frequently outpacing Raikkonen in qualifying. The only race which he made visible errors was Hungary, on the day before his son Sacha was born.

I wonder if that is perhaps because, with Kimi now leaving the team, Lotus are finally beginning to give Grosjean the support that he needed but was denied because Kimi was the lead driver.
If that is the case, then it leaves an interesting question open for 2014 - will he still get that support next year and continue to develop or, if Lotus hire a new driver and appoint that driver their lead driver, will he then fall back if they cut that support back?

andrew2209 wrote:Due to Hamilton swearing on the pit radio, he has been given a 10 place grid penalty. More details here: http://tinyurl.com/c7s95xp

What the
In all seriousness though, i think it's beurocracy gone mad on the F.I.A's part

dr-baker wrote:I reckon that after today, there are just grounds for dumping Korea from next year's calendar, particularly if they want to trim it back down to 20 races. If there are only 20 races next year, and they go to Korea, I will be surprised.

Memorable GP, though!

Well, I think there is a chance of an Indian GP next year because some of the stuff I wittnessed today was an bathplugging farce.

Bit of a depressing stat for Hamilton fans: He has had less top 2 finishes than both Mark Webber and Nico Rosberg

Gvozdenovic wrote:I mean Alonso who lost championship because he drove one hour behind Petrov.

Be fair, we all know Abu Dhabi is a shite track for overtaking.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Bit of a depressing stat for Hamilton fans: He has had less top 2 finishes than both Mark Webber and Nico Rosberg

Korea also marks the first time this season that Mercedes have gone 3 races without a podium. At this rate they will lose 2nd to Ferrari and Hamilton will be 4th in the title once again behind Raikkonen. I wish I could be proved wrong.

10 place Grid penalty for Pic and Bianchi.... like it will harm their Jap GP.... lol

WeirdKerr wrote:10 place Grid penalty for Pic and Bianchi.... like it will harm their Jap GP.... lol

This means:
MAXIATTACK 20TH, at the very least!

good_Ralf wrote:

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Bit of a depressing stat for Hamilton fans: He has had less top 2 finishes than both Mark Webber and Nico Rosberg

Korea also marks the first time this season that Mercedes have gone 3 races without a podium. At this rate they will lose 2nd to Ferrari and Hamilton will be 4th in the title once again behind Raikkonen. I wish I could be proved wrong.

The battle between Mercedes and Ferrari for 2nd in the WCC is shaping up in an interesting way - although neither Mercedes driver can match Alonso outright for points, because they are relatively evenly balanced they are able to rack up enough points to pressurise Ferrari. To a certain extent, though, Mercedes would probably not mind too much about losing out to Ferrari - 3rd in the WCC is still probably higher than they predicted before the season began, so they're probably still exceeding expectations even with that.

To a certain extent, Hamilton's relative position in the WDC is also slightly better than in 2012 - although he was closer to the leaders in 2012, being "just" 52 points behind as opposed to 111 now, he was also only in 4th place in the WDC and actually had a lower points total than he does now (after 14 races in 2012, he had 142 points as opposed to the 161 he has now). Hamilton's position is actually not that dissimilar to where he was last year, which is better than he'd probably expected even if the recent results by Mercedes have not been quite as strong as the earlier part of the season.

That said, Mercedes have shot themselves a little in the foot with very poor strategy calls at certain times - Hamilton being left for too long on a worn set of tyres in this race and losing fistfuls of time, or not opting to stop in Singapore in a move that also cost them dear (Rosberg wouldn't have had to sit out on track for so long with debris lodged in his front wing and at least tried to put some distance between himself and the rest of the pack).

The other question is what will happen with Force India, Sauber and Toro Rosso - with Force India's momentum having completely evaporated, that once solid 6th place in the WCC is now looking somewhat precarious. The tyre changes have pushed Sauber markedly up the field - they are the team that has gained the most relative time, by a very significant margin, since those modifications - whilst Toro Rosso has gained too.
Perhaps the only consolation for Force India is that those two teams have taken points off of each other as much as out of Force India's lead, but it would only take one of those teams to score just over 6 points on average in the next five races to beat Force India. You'd only need one driver to average 7th place finishes in the final five races and the other driver to just finish once in the points, or just the one 7th place and a steady stream of 8th's and 9th's with both drivers, to beat Force India - a potentially realistic prospect that could see one or perhaps even both of those outfits squeeze past Force India in the closing stages of this season.

Aerospeed wrote:Not too sure whose self-inflicted off-track incident was more rejectworthy, Di Resta's or Ricciardo's... Ricciardo's incident means that McLaren gets a double points finish Ricciardo looked good for a top-5 finish, though, shame he had lost it, in a way.

The answer is clearly di Resta, since Ricciardo's brakes failed (which is why STR retired Vergne as well).

This whole deal was a clear sign that FIAT will be rebranding the Scuderia as JEEP F1 in 2014 and beyond.

Once you accepted Vettel was off and away there was some great racing to be seen but I found it actually not that exciting probably because it had little effect on the championship.

Given that now I usually expect any given dry race to end up being VETTELWINSLOL (sorry to those who don't like the term!), I'm usually happy if the racing behind him is interesting which the race yesterday was.

My other points of interest for the rest of year now the championships are both seemingly sewn up:

Can Webber get a farewell victory (he could be given one of the driver's championship is mathematically over)
Whether Mercedes (or Lotus for that matter) could beat Ferrari for 2nd in the constructors
Will McLaren have their worst season with no top 4 finishes since god knows when?

James1978 wrote:Will McLaren have their worst season with no top 4 finishes since god knows when?

1966. That's when McLaren scored only two points, with a fifth in the US GP. And the team had a part-time season back then, 3 race entries out of 9 GPs...

andrew2209 wrote:Due to Hamilton swearing on the pit radio, he has been given a 10 place grid penalty. More details here: http://tinyurl.com/c7s95xp

You sir. Go and sit in the corner with the Andrea Modas and the EuroBruns!! Evil Hamster judges you

Overall,one of the better races of a pretty dismal year so far-as always Vettel gets the luck in Red Bull.Good job Webber was out of the car or he'd have been toast by the time the marshals showed up.If you ignored Vettel,there was pretty good stuff in the midfield-Sauber putting up a pretty good show. And whilst everyone else was collapsing or flying off or falling to pits,Maldonado managed to keep it on the straight and level-one of his better drives this year.
Even if I did have to wait until this morning to watch it as moving house,the TV has gone and BBC iplayer didn't have it up for a full 12 hours after the race.
And very much liking the Emma love here. Evil Hamster is most satisfied and would like it to be a regular feature.

MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx wrote:And very much liking the Emma love here. Evil Hamster is most satisfied and would like it to be a regular feature.

Easily arranged.