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Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 09 Feb 2014, 21:50
by Backmarker
mario wrote:Does Kolles have the facilities to build a chassis in house? When he was racing ex-works Audi R10's in sportscar racing a few years ago, Dallara were the ones who built the chassis, so that would have been out of house (although he had to create his own electronics systems - according to him, Audi deliberately refused to sell him the electrical systems, and he claims that Dr Baretzky told him " we can't have a customer beating the works team").
As for his work with HRT, again, not a single HRT chassis was made by Kolles (after they broke away from Dallara, their next chassis was made in Germany by an independent privateer), so I can't recall of Kolles actually manufacturing a chassis in house in recent years.
Of course, that in itself need not be a hindrance if the work can be outsourced (which is what Haas is planning to do). Kolles certainly has prior experience in F1 and has a long track record in motorsport, but there is still a slight doubt at the back of my mind. Equally, there is the possibility that some of the players in the sport might not want to see him there again - particularly Mercedes, since I imagine that Wolff won't be too keen to see somebody who tried to blackmail him mixing in the same circles (speaking of which, the blackmail accusations could give the FIA a pretext to turn his application down on the grounds that he is not a fit and
proper person to run an F1 team).
Yes, you're right actually. After Dallara the HRT chassis were fabricated by SCE Solutions, a Munich-based company run by Stéphane Chosse (ex-Ligier, Sauber and Toyota). Kolles will possibly call on Stéphane Chosse again, as ADESS (another of Chosse's companies - quite why he needs two engineering companies I'm not sure) made the T128 LMP2 chassis for Kodewa (though there were wranglings over payment), and ADESS suspiciously developed a 2014-spec F1 chassis in 2013 for an unknown customer...
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 10 Feb 2014, 00:39
by Basetornado
Id like to see what Audi could do in F1, they have pretty much dominated Le Mans, so would be interesting to see them in F1.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 10 Feb 2014, 21:45
by mario
Basetornado wrote:Id like to see what Audi could do in F1, they have pretty much dominated Le Mans, so would be interesting to see them in F1.
VW were present during the initial negotiations over the turbo engines - with the original proposal for a four cylinder engine mainly made as an attempt to lure them into the sport, according to Newey - but they have made it clear that they don't want any involvement in F1.
They claim that the developments in F1 do not allow sufficient trickle down technology to road cars, though some might also cynically suggest that the other reason is because Audi would not longer have the massive superiority in spending that has allowed them to dominate at Le Mans (bear in mind that the privateer LMP1 teams operate on about one twentieth of the budget Audi has, and there have been rumours that Toyota only has about a quarter of the budget of Audi (which it has to use to run both the works team and the customer engine manufacturing division), hence the use of an engine derived from their road car division and originally tuned for the GT500 series).
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 12 Feb 2014, 17:03
by Wallio
What is it about VW and that stupid "World Engine". They tried to force it down both F1 and Indycar's throats despite no one else wanting it, but when they can run one in WEC, they don't.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 12 Feb 2014, 18:03
by mario
Wallio wrote:What is it about VW and that stupid "World Engine". They tried to force it down both F1 and Indycar's throats despite no one else wanting it, but when they can run one in WEC, they don't.
In the case of the WEC, part of the reason for that would be the fact that the ACO intentionally made diesel engines more competitive than petrol engines for an extended period of time (which was why Peugeot also went for a diesel engine - and, if you listen to Toyota's arguments, the rules are still biased in favour of diesel engines). Audi have poured a lot of money into their diesel engines by now, so having to retool and redesign their car for a new engine would be rather costly and time consuming.
Mind you, it could be argued that VW are moving towards running an engine that is quite similar in format to the "World Engine" in the WEC. Porsche's engine is confirmed to be a 2.0 litre turbocharged four cylinder unit, with speculation that Porsche have adopted a straight four configuration. That configuration already sounds rather similar to the "World Engine" format, so Porsche may be VW's way of promoting their "World Engine" via the WEC after all.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 14 Feb 2014, 22:34
by Myrvold
Backmarker wrote:and ADESS suspiciously developed a 2014-spec F1 chassis in 2013 for an unknown customer...
LMP1, on F1 I think
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 28 Feb 2014, 19:36
by f1andrea
Today the FIA has not annunced the verdict on 12° and/or 13° team, but has postponed it...it seems that maybe they're waiting for Caterham's future, the malaysian team could be merged with one of the new team in 2015, but by now are only rumors
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 21 Mar 2014, 20:18
by f1andrea
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 21 Mar 2014, 20:23
by Aerospeed
Well, I'd thought he'd go the distance. So that's three times Stefan didn't enter in F1...
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 21 Mar 2014, 20:24
by go_Rubens
That doesn't surprise me quite honestly. I still don't think they'll ever get in, no matter how much I'd like to see it.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 21 Mar 2014, 20:37
by pi314159
Aerospeed wrote:Well, I'd thought he'd go the distance. So that's three times Stefan didn't enter in F1...
Three? I count at least four. 1997, 1998, 2010 and now 2015. Wasn't he trying to join in 2011 as well?
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 21 Mar 2014, 23:08
by Walsh_e
This long drawn out process makes me miss the old days, you pay your entry fee then turn up with whatever you have managed to cobble together, truly great times!
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 08:15
by Waris
*Sigh* Let's wait until the next time then... I hope it will happen one day, because I would like to see that in my lifetime (I think most of us here would).
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 17:08
by dr-baker
Waris wrote:*Sigh* Let's wait until the next time then... I hope it will happen one day, because I would like to see that in my lifetime (I think most of us here would).
Yeah, it would be a catastrophe if they end up being ineligible for a full, official reject profile, considering how many headlines and debate they've generated...
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 18:59
by f1andrea
Walsh_e wrote:This long drawn out process makes me miss the old days, you pay your entry fee then turn up with whatever you have managed to cobble together, truly great times!
you're right. The deadline was 28 February, but FIA postponed the announcement...I think that at the end FIA will not select a team, even if some rumors told about two teams to be selected. Anyway, seems to remain only two teams now: Haas Racing and Colin Kolles team. I really hope to see both in 2015, but it's very difficult.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 22 Mar 2014, 20:01
by mario
f1andrea wrote:Walsh_e wrote:This long drawn out process makes me miss the old days, you pay your entry fee then turn up with whatever you have managed to cobble together, truly great times!
you're right. The deadline was 28 February, but FIA postponed the announcement...I think that at the end FIA will not select a team, even if some rumors told about two teams to be selected. Anyway, seems to remain only two teams now: Haas Racing and Colin Kolles team. I really hope to see both in 2015, but it's very difficult.
Even then there were quite a few teams that promised much but soon vanished without trace, so Stefan is certainly upholding that tradition if nothing else...
I'm also starting to wonder, like yourself, if the FIA is going to accept either of the two entries that have been put forward in the end - the very fact that the FIA has postponed the decision suggests that there is some sort of uncertainty that is preventing the deal from being sealed at this point in time.
That said, I imagine that Bernie would be keen to see Haas's bid being accepted given that he is pushing for an aggressive expansion of F1 within the US, and it is entirely plausible that Haas would help raise the profile of F1 within the US if it was admitted. It could also play to Luca's previously expressed desire of a Ferrari backed team based within the US - although Haas would use their own chassis, the rumoured engine deal with Ferrari would at least give them some of the publicity they seek. There will probably be a fair amount of political pressure for the deal with Haas to go through as a result of that.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 23 Mar 2014, 19:18
by Waris
So I've been thinking and here's a suggestion (and I'm actually somewhat serious, so bear with me): Stefan, for all their attempts at entering F1, to the best of my recollection haven't ever actually ran in any notable sort of racing series. So now that their entry bid is again rejected, why don't they try to join Auto GP? I doubt Enzo Coloni would care much about their shaky reputation, and if they then prove that they can decently run a team, they could then bid to join GP2 for the next three-year cycle (which should start in 2017, IIRC). That should lend them some credibility if they decide to enter F1 in 2020, or possibly earlier if they manage to sell off their GP2 team.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 24 Mar 2014, 13:03
by dr-baker
Waris wrote:So I've been thinking and here's a suggestion (and I'm actually somewhat serious, so bear with me): Stefan, for all their attempts at entering F1, to the best of my recollection haven't ever actually ran in any notable sort of racing series. So now that their entry bid is again rejected, why don't they try to join Auto GP? I doubt Enzo Coloni would care much about their shaky reputation, and if they then prove that they can decently run a team, they could then bid to join GP2 for the next three-year cycle (which should start in 2017, IIRC). That should lend them some credibility if they decide to enter F1 in 2020, or possibly earlier if they manage to sell off their GP2 team.
Hmmm, that is an interesting post. Even better, why don't they start off with
this young up-start team?
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 25 Mar 2014, 17:32
by Onxy Wrecked
dr-baker wrote:Waris wrote:*Sigh* Let's wait until the next time then... I hope it will happen one day, because I would like to see that in my lifetime (I think most of us here would).
Yeah, it would be a catastrophe if they end up being ineligible for a full, official reject profile, considering how many headlines and debate they've generated...
And worse yet, that's actually highly likely for a Stefan GP team to do is to end up like Onyx if not a bit better before it runs out of Serbian dinars.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 30 Mar 2014, 11:56
by Waris
Onxy Wrecked wrote:dr-baker wrote:Waris wrote:*Sigh* Let's wait until the next time then... I hope it will happen one day, because I would like to see that in my lifetime (I think most of us here would).
Yeah, it would be a catastrophe if they end up being ineligible for a full, official reject profile, considering how many headlines and debate they've generated...
And worse yet, that's actually highly likely for a Stefan GP team to do is to end up like Onyx if not a bit better before it runs out of Serbian dinars.
May I remind you that Onyx actually had a podium finish. I doubt Stefan could muster that.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 03 Apr 2014, 14:08
by Wallio
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 03 Apr 2014, 20:54
by Onxy Wrecked
Waris wrote:May I remind you that Onyx actually had a podium finish. I doubt Stefan could muster that.
However, one must note how many DNQs Onyx had. Stefan wouldn't have to worry about that.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 03 Apr 2014, 23:10
by Dj_bereta
2015 is too soon for a team to prepare to debut in F1. Bernie is commiting the same mistake that he did in 2010. Newman Hass or whataver will be the dead last and will struggle to qualify.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 03 Apr 2014, 23:29
by Onxy Wrecked
Dj_bereta wrote:2015 is too soon for a team to prepare to debut in F1. Bernie is commiting the same mistake that he did in 2010. Newman Hass or whataver will be the dead last and will struggle to qualify.
I wouldn't say it's that dire given the testing resource that Haas has that few others would have. That is having a
wind tunnel fully owned by the team owner. Still, I don't have expectations beyond maybe being alongside of Marussia and Caterham battling for the bottom of the F1 grid. Secondly, Newman Haas isn't the team you are looking at trying to make it into F1, but the Stewart-Haas racing team of NASCAR fame.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 04 Apr 2014, 00:57
by Aerospeed
Dj_bereta wrote:2015 is too soon for a team to prepare to debut in F1. Bernie is commiting the same mistake that he did in 2010. Newman Hass or whataver will be the dead last and will struggle to qualify.
Well, last time the teams were decided in July/August, this time it might be decided in April.
Given the news story of Bernie's approval, Team Haas is probably looking at designing a F1 car right about now.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 04 Apr 2014, 06:41
by CoopsII
Dj_bereta wrote:2015 is too soon for a team to prepare to debut in F1. Bernie is commiting the same mistake that he did in 2010. Newman Hass or whataver will be the dead last and will struggle to qualify.
Hopefully
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 06 Apr 2014, 10:47
by Enforcer
Sky Sports news reporting that Haas and one unnamed other entry have been approved. Well approved by Bernie at least.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 06 Apr 2014, 11:03
by solarcold
KOLLES! KOLLES! KOLLES!
*fingers crossed*
This man just makes F1 even more awesome.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 06 Apr 2014, 23:26
by watka
solarcold wrote:KOLLES! KOLLES! KOLLES!
*fingers crossed*
This man just makes F1 even more awesome.
In all seriousness, that man knows how to run a team effectively, if not spectacularly. A Kolles' team is one that is the antithesis of pre-2014 Lotus: spends within its means, hires pay drivers to help its cause and never really punches above its weight but doesn't disgrace itself either. He's more suited to sports cars or lower formulae where results can come from less expenditure but F1 is within his capabilities. They wouldn't give us the most interesting F1 entry (Midland anyone?) but they would contribute to a growing list of reject drivers for sure!
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 07 Apr 2014, 00:01
by Aerospeed
watka wrote:solarcold wrote:KOLLES! KOLLES! KOLLES!
*fingers crossed*
This man just makes F1 even more awesome.
In all seriousness, that man knows how to run a team effectively, if not spectacularly. A Kolles' team is one that is the antithesis of pre-2014 Lotus: spends within its means, hires pay drivers to help its cause and never really punches above its weight but doesn't disgrace itself either. He's more suited to sports cars or lower formulae where results can come from less expenditure but F1 is within his capabilities. They wouldn't give us the most interesting F1 entry (Midland anyone?) but they would contribute to a growing list of reject drivers for sure!
The fact that he gave drivers like Christian Klien and Sakon Yamamoto add to his resume of great reject drivers he's employed. He definitely has the reject spirit in him.
As for Haas, I'm wary of having another American F1 team try and get in, I just hope they have their main base in Europe, and not in the heart of NASCAR like USF1 did... Hopefully Windsor and Anderson will be far away from his project as well
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 07 Apr 2014, 00:24
by Salamander
Aerospeed wrote:As for Haas, I'm wary of having another American F1 team try and get in, I just hope they have their main base in Europe, and not in the heart of NASCAR like USF1 did... Hopefully Windsor and Anderson will be far away from his project as well
... uhhh, USF1 was to be based in Spain...
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 07 Apr 2014, 00:58
by Aerospeed
Salamander wrote:Aerospeed wrote:As for Haas, I'm wary of having another American F1 team try and get in, I just hope they have their main base in Europe, and not in the heart of NASCAR like USF1 did... Hopefully Windsor and Anderson will be far away from his project as well
... uhhh, USF1 was to be based in Spain...
That was their secondary location, their main base was in Charlotte. (Or it could be that the wiki page of the team is lying. Who knows.) The point being, they were crazy enough to have two bases is bad enough to begin with
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 07 Apr 2014, 06:03
by mario
Aerospeed wrote:watka wrote:solarcold wrote:KOLLES! KOLLES! KOLLES!
*fingers crossed*
This man just makes F1 even more awesome.
In all seriousness, that man knows how to run a team effectively, if not spectacularly. A Kolles' team is one that is the antithesis of pre-2014 Lotus: spends within its means, hires pay drivers to help its cause and never really punches above its weight but doesn't disgrace itself either. He's more suited to sports cars or lower formulae where results can come from less expenditure but F1 is within his capabilities. They wouldn't give us the most interesting F1 entry (Midland anyone?) but they would contribute to a growing list of reject drivers for sure!
The fact that he gave drivers like Christian Klien and Sakon Yamamoto add to his resume of great reject drivers he's employed. He definitely has the reject spirit in him.
As for Haas, I'm wary of having another American F1 team try and get in, I just hope they have their main base in Europe, and not in the heart of NASCAR like USF1 did... Hopefully Windsor and Anderson will be far away from his project as well
Haas's main facilities are based around the Windshear wind tunnel in the US - although I understand that Haas does have some facilities in Belgium, I would assume that the design work at least is going to be carried out in the US rather than in Europe with the European base being a maintenance facility for the European leg of the season.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 10 Apr 2014, 00:57
by Waris
Does anyone here know if former American F1 constructors like Eagle, Penske, Haas (the other one), etc. were based in the USA or in Europe?
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 10 Apr 2014, 07:55
by Faustus
Waris wrote:Does anyone here know if former American F1 constructors like Eagle, Penske, Haas (the other one), etc. were based in the USA or in Europe?
All 3 in the UK.
Eagle, or rather All American Racers, was based in the UK, but I can't remember where.
Penske was based in Poole, in Dorset.
Haas was based in Colnbrook, in Berkshire.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 12:35
by Backmarker
Faustus wrote:Waris wrote:Does anyone here know if former American F1 constructors like Eagle, Penske, Haas (the other one), etc. were based in the USA or in Europe?
All 3 in the UK.
Eagle, or rather All American Racers, was based in the UK, but I can't remember where.
All American Racers were in Rye, East Sussex.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 15:55
by Waris
I believe the name you're looking for is Anglo American Racers. But thanks.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 15:57
by Wallio
Waris wrote:I believe the name you're looking for is Anglo American Racers. But thanks.
Depends on the country. Over here is branded his team as All-American (still does, see the Deltawing). Over there, it was Anglo-American.
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 16:27
by Londoner
Re: A 12th team for 2015/16
Posted: 11 Apr 2014, 16:29
by Vassago
I'd prefer Haas over Kolles tbh. I have doubts whether Kolles would keep the intensity and passion going when his team's target would be beating Caterham and Marussia. He's not used to bringing up the rear and there have been a number of successful ladder series owners who couldn't get the job done in the big league hence faded away before time. Meanwhile Haas will still have the NASCAR toys to keep him happy with Kolles going all-in and fight for the scraps at the start. I don't see that last very long.