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Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 16:51
by Fetzie
I'm sorry, but how the **** can anybody work at the Monaco (or any other, for that matter) Grand Prix and not know who Kimi is?
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 17:01
by Dj_bereta
No surprise if Hamilton crashes with Rosberg tomorrow.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 17:13
by mario
Fetzie wrote:I'm sorry, but how the **** can anybody work at the Monaco (or any other, for that matter) Grand Prix and not know who Kimi is?
They failed to recognise Hamilton during the Malaysian GP at one point too (although Hamilton did have his helmet on at the time).
Dj_bereta wrote:No surprise if Hamilton crashes with Rosberg tomorrow.
I agree that this incident is unlikely to have helped things between Hamilton and Rosberg - the former will be feeling very aggrieved given that, but for the yellow flag, pole position was potentially his for the taking, and Vettel is probably similarly frustrated as he was also on course to improve his time (though whether it would have been enough to beat Ricciardo is not clear), which is probably why neither of them looked that impressed whilst Rosberg celebrated his pole position.
With that in mind, yes, I agree that there is a good chance that Hamilton may collide with Rosberg tomorrow - this is the sort of incident that will probably put Hamilton into a very aggressive mindset, and if Rosberg manages to stay ahead of Hamilton off the start, I can see Hamilton trying a very aggressive move as a way of stamping his authority onto Rosberg.
Either way, if the stewards cannot find any evidence of deliberate action on Rosberg's part, it is only fair that no penalty is applied - personally, I might have given a reprimand to Rosberg for reversing towards the track (I feel that the correct course of action would have been to park the car at the end of the slip road), but on balance probably not much more than that.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 18:03
by tommykl
mario wrote:Fetzie wrote:roblomas52 wrote:there was no point demoting him to the back of the grid because he was last in qualifying anyway
Oops, pit lane start for him. Sorry. I guess they need the spot on the grid for Rosberg?
It's about the only penalty they can apply given where he was due to start anyway - although, this being Monaco, that might be less of a disadvantage given the possibility of a first corner clash.
Wait, I thought grid penalties that weren't completely served carried over to the following races. Or was that scrapped?
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 18:09
by Meatwad
I wonder why drivers are penalized for ruining another driver's qualifying by crashing into them or impeding them, but not for ruining it for several drivers by spinning and causing a yellow flag. None of these cases are usually intentional so that is no excuse (although admittedly Ericsson's incident was worse and less unavoidable than Rosberg's). It was a shame to see a good qualifying session end that way. I especially hate it when the guy that crashed or spun gets pole thanks to his mistake (Chilton also did this once in GP2).
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 18:14
by CoopsII
It's getting cringe-worthy now. At least when my son pretends to be his hero (Batman) he doesn't actually dress in kevlar, dangle me upside down and demand "SWEAR TO ME!!!".
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 18:15
by Yannick
Looking at the qualifying results, the back row is both Caterhams, the penultimate row is both Virgin/Manors and the 3rd last row is both Saubers. Now isn't Sutil supposed to be a Monaco specialist? He'd better show it in the race.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 19:42
by mario
Yannick wrote:Looking at the qualifying results, the back row is both Caterhams, the penultimate row is both Virgin/Manors and the 3rd last row is both Saubers. Now isn't Sutil supposed to be a Monaco specialist? He'd better show it in the race.
He was hailed as a Monaco specialist in his earlier years, but to be honest I don't think that his results really live up to that billing all that well - after all, both Liuzzi and di Resta managed to beat him in qualifying in previous years, and in the races itself perhaps the only noteworthy moments would probably be the 2013 race where he finished 5th thanks to a strategy gamble.
His reputation as a Monaco specialist mainly seems to stem from the 2008 race where he was unusually high up the field - although, as is sometimes forgotten, he was only that high up the field because he illegally passed cars during a yellow flag and would therefore have been disqualified anyway.
Speaking of Sauber, Gutierrez was under investigation in Monaco but has been cleared of blocking - it was decided that, because Gutierrez was in turn being blocked by another driver and was unable to get out of the way, that he did not deserve a penalty for blocking.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 19:59
by good_Ralf
mario wrote:His reputation as a Monaco specialist mainly seems to stem from the 2008 race where he was unusually high up the field - although, as is sometimes forgotten, he was only that high up the field because he illegally passed cars during a yellow flag and would therefore have been disqualified anyway.
In 2007 he was also fastest in a wet practice session in Monte Carlo but apart from that, 2008 and 2013 have been his only great showings at Monaco. In the style of Jocke1, it's also worth noting that Sutil's 2012 race there wasn't very memorable either.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 20:30
by WeirdKerr
Whether if it was deliberate or not Rosberg should be Penalised as he STILL caused the Yellow ......
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 20:34
by Barbazza
Ataxia wrote:Hamilton didn't turn up to the team debrief, apparently. Just as you think he's matured...
I just knew the dummy spitting would begin at some point, he'd been far too normal recently. As for the comments about wanting it to be like Senna and Prost, that just takes childishness and stupidity to new levels.
Here's the thing - I never appreciated Senna's driving at the time because of his attitude, which I hated. That same attitude which you display 90% of the time, Lewis. So you can sod off as far as I'm concerned.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 21:03
by Rob Dylan
I never appreciated Senna's driving at the time because of his attitude, which I hated
With all the saint-making that Senna gets, he in ways is a terrible role model. Nobody's perfect, but the fact that Ayrton is made to be the "greatest ever" (lol) really seems to have pardoned all his wrongdoing, or in the case of Japan 1990, even justified it! Hamilton and co. shouldn't be looking to Senna as "what would he have done?". It's just unfortunate that someone's death leads to that kind of thing, cause I don't think Senna himself would have liked that Hamilton's response would hint at "Senna did it, so that's OK"
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 21:04
by Enforcer
WeirdKerr wrote:Whether if it was deliberate or not Rosberg should be Penalised as he STILL caused the Yellow ......
I wasn't aware causing a yellow flag was a penalty offence in F1.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 21:22
by WeirdKerr
Enforcer wrote:WeirdKerr wrote:Whether if it was deliberate or not Rosberg should be Penalised as he STILL caused the Yellow ......
I wasn't aware causing a yellow flag was a penalty offence in F1.
Was causing(whether Deliberate or other wise) a yellow that saves your qualifying position made an offence in 2006 following what Micheal did I.E. he set the precedence
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 21:26
by Salamander
WeirdKerr wrote:Enforcer wrote:WeirdKerr wrote:Whether if it was deliberate or not Rosberg should be Penalised as he STILL caused the Yellow ......
I wasn't aware causing a yellow flag was a penalty offence in F1.
Was causing(whether Deliberate or other wise) a yellow that saves your qualifying position made an offence in 2006 following what Micheal did I.E. he set the precedence
Schumacher parked the car at Rascasse in a move which everyone and their dog could see was intentional. That was the offense, that he did it intentionally. The FIA have found no reason to suggest that Rosberg intentionally went off at Mirabeau.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 21:42
by WeirdKerr
I'm not saying it was deliberate but I am saying he brought out a yellow flag which has saved his postion...
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 21:56
by eytl
Well, having gone to bed (Sydney time) convinced Rosberg would take a penalty, I am absolutely astounded that no action has been taken, mainly because it appears as though the stewards have not looked into the reversing back onto the track at all. I find that impossible to believe.
I do agree with those who are wondering why a deliberate act causing yellows in qualifying which therefore impede another driver should not be treated as any other act of impeding. I think there is a difference though with an accidental off which brings out yellows, where more often than not the damage done to the driver who has spun or crashed is penalty enough.
I also agree with many of you that I am also finding Hamilton's attitude very hard to believe as well. At times he gives the impression or having matured; at other times he still acts (and talks) like a pancake (I happen to be eating a pancake at the moment so I have that on my mind). Like all the pre-race rubbish leading up to Monaco about dominating Rosberg and about privileged/underprivileged backgrounds, and now this "I'll deal with it like Senna" garbage. I won't say much more for now because I feel an article coming on ...
Finally, on the topic of Sutil being a Monaco specialist, I don't particularly see him that way; I think what happened in 2008 (and in other races) created the impression of him being a wet weather specialist though, but that too seems to have gone by the wayside in previous years. The one guy who comes to mind as a Monaco specialist is actually Maldonado - think 2011, for example. But even he couldn't outqualify Grosjean or do anything with the Lotus this year, which emphasises just how bad a car it is at the moment.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 22:10
by Salamander
WeirdKerr wrote:I'm not saying it was deliberate but I am saying he brought out a yellow flag which has saved his postion...
Well, there are a bunch of different ways you can view the incident. Certainly, the way you are viewing it, it is very much like Schumacher at Rascasse, but I think something worth pointing out is that Rosberg understeered through Casino Square, so it's not like he was completely at one with the car up until Mirabeau. All the replays I have seen have started after he has already left Casino Square, so it looks like he's just suddenly lost all control on his way down there. Another thing I've noticed is that the front wheels much at all to Rosberg's steering inputs - though there may be a better technical explanation for that, for me, at least right now, I think it's pretty clear he wasn't in total control on the run down to Mirabeau.
As for reversing back on to the track, I haven't seen a single replay showing this, so I really don't know what to make of it at all, whether it's true or not. I did see a tweet from David Croft saying that the stewards didn't look into it since reversing is only banned in the pitlane.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 24 May 2014, 22:57
by fjackdaw
WeirdKerr wrote:I'm not saying it was deliberate but I am saying he brought out a yellow flag which has saved his postion...
It doesn't matter. It's not a punishable offense to cause yellow flags, therefore there's no reason he should be penalised for that.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 05:01
by Jocke1
Wait, wait......Enoch eats pancakes in bed ?
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 07:06
by AdrianSutil
Might as well throw my thoughts into all this talk. Firstly, I'm a Hamilton fan and I freely admit that. But even I'm starting to think his petulant and childish attitude needs a good seeing-to. Surely someone like Ron Dennis should go and have a word with him, even if they're not in the same team, they are still good friends. Then again, maybe that's a terrible idea. What Hamilton needs to do is do his talking on track. He's the clear favourite for the title in my opinion and needs to just shut up and prove it to everyone.
As for the 'Rosberg Incident'. I saw no malice in that. You can see he's pushing like crazy on the run down to Mirabeau and tries several times to get the car turned in but bails at the final second and uses the escape road. And if that escape road wasn't there, we'd have had a Mercedes in the wall and that wouldve been a double-yellow for the remainder of the session. Reversing onto the track is not illegal either, at any point of the circuit or weekend session. Remember Rosset in 1998?
As for Sutil as a Monaco specialist? That's the first I've heard of it. True, everyone remembers 2008 because he was struck by Kimi whilst fighting for a podium in a back-row Force India but we all also know he was there by dint of passing 4 cars at Loews earlier in the race under yellow flags. As for why everyone is having a dig at him being poor in the Sauber, you have to remember he isn't renowned for developing a car or even finding a very good set-up each weekend. If he could start to pull it all together he'll pull away from Gutierrez and start knocking around with the Toro Rosso's. Plus having a crap car doesn't help anyway.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 07:32
by CoopsII
It's a pity this forum doesn't have the capability to run polls as I'd be interested to get a general feeling on how many people think Rosberg snafu'd on purpose. Personally, I don't think he did but I can see why many might think otherwise.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 07:38
by More_Blue_Flags
Barbazza wrote:Ataxia wrote:Hamilton didn't turn up to the team debrief, apparently. Just as you think he's matured...
I just knew the dummy spitting would begin at some point, he'd been far too normal recently. As for the comments about wanting it to be like Senna and Prost, that just takes childishness and stupidity to new levels.
Here's the thing - I never appreciated Senna's driving at the time because of his attitude, which I hated. That same attitude which you display 90% of the time, Lewis. So you can sod off as far as I'm concerned.
I must admit that I never really took to Senna for similar reasons, although I can see why someone would want to emulate certain aspects of Senna's character. But the way he dealt with Prost? I would have thought that even the most ardent disciple of the Church of Senna would at best make excuses for Senna's behavior there rather than celebrate it?
Hamilton is reinforcing my view that he is still pretty immature, but I also suspect his silly 'mind games' reflect an inner lack of confidence (not to mention receiving some idiotic advice) and are doing him more harm than good. This years championship is Hamilton's to lose at the moment, but he may be about to lose it all by himself.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 07:38
by Jocke1
CoopsII wrote:It's a pity this forum doesn't have the capability to run polls as I'd be interested to get a general feeling on how many people think Rosberg snafu'd on purpose. Personally, I don't think he did but I can see why many might think otherwise.
Autosport
Did Rosberg park it deliberately?
Voted
Yes (310 votes [48.59%])
No (328 votes [51.41%])
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 07:48
by mario
Salamander wrote:WeirdKerr wrote:I'm not saying it was deliberate but I am saying he brought out a yellow flag which has saved his postion...
Well, there are a bunch of different ways you can view the incident. Certainly, the way you are viewing it, it is very much like Schumacher at Rascasse, but I think something worth pointing out is that Rosberg understeered through Casino Square, so it's not like he was completely at one with the car up until Mirabeau. All the replays I have seen have started after he has already left Casino Square, so it looks like he's just suddenly lost all control on his way down there. Another thing I've noticed is that the front wheels much at all to Rosberg's steering inputs - though there may be a better technical explanation for that, for me, at least right now, I think it's pretty clear he wasn't in total control on the run down to Mirabeau.
As for reversing back on to the track, I haven't seen a single replay showing this, so I really don't know what to make of it at all, whether it's true or not. I did see a tweet from David Croft saying that the
stewards didn't look into it since reversing is only banned in the pitlane.
That would seem to suggest that the stewards are not fully familiar with the regulations as they state quite clearly that drivers are forbidden from driving "in the opposite direction to the race" (i.e. against the traffic flow, which would include reversing onto the track) unless it is the only means to remove a stricken car, not just in the pit lane.
I'd agree, though, that it would be unfair to punish Rosberg for a genuine mistake that, by chance, potentially happened to save his position - it did look more like driver error rather than malicious action, but given the importance of the position and the knowledge of what Schumacher did in 2006, it is best that the stewards investigated and cleared Rosberg rather than leaving the question dangling over everybody for the rest of the weekend.
AdrianSutil wrote:Might as well throw my thoughts into all this talk. Firstly, I'm a Hamilton fan and I freely admit that. But even I'm starting to think his petulant and childish attitude needs a good seeing-to. Surely someone like Ron Dennis should go and have a word with him, even if they're not in the same team, they are still good friends. Then again, maybe that's a terrible idea. What Hamilton needs to do is do his talking on track. He's the clear favourite for the title in my opinion and needs to just shut up and prove it to everyone.
As for the 'Rosberg Incident'. I saw no malice in that. You can see he's pushing like crazy on the run down to Mirabeau and tries several times to get the car turned in but bails at the final second and uses the escape road. And if that escape road wasn't there, we'd have had a Mercedes in the wall and that wouldve been a double-yellow for the remainder of the session. Reversing onto the track is not illegal either, at any point of the circuit or weekend session. Remember Rosset in 1998?
As for Sutil as a Monaco specialist? That's the first I've heard of it. True, everyone remembers 2008 because he was struck by Kimi whilst fighting for a podium in a back-row Force India but we all also know he was there by dint of passing 4 cars at Loews earlier in the race under yellow flags. As for why everyone is having a dig at him being poor in the Sauber, you have to remember he isn't renowned for developing a car or even finding a very good set-up each weekend. If he could start to pull it all together he'll pull away from Gutierrez and start knocking around with the Toro Rosso's. Plus having a crap car doesn't help anyway.
I guess that the equivalent figure over at Mercedes would be Niki Lauda - it seems that he has established a fairly good working relationship with Lewis, and it does seem that Lewis does respect what Lauda says to him. I would not be surprised if Lauda has already sat him down to have a word with him, because the last thing that he needs would be a fractious relationship between the drivers ruining things.
As for Sutil, that is certainly one major flaw that he has - he has had a reputation for some time of having poor set up skills and weak development feedback, which makes you wonder whether Sauber might actually have a car that could possibly compete with Toro Rosso but is held back by their drivers. True, the car is still flawed - although their new chassis brings them close to the weight limit, it sounds as if they are still slightly overweight, which hurts Sutil more than Gutierrez given Sutil is a taller and heavier driver, but still you wonder whether it is quite that badly flawed.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 10:54
by Eifelland
Hamilton is pretty angry, as well as being young. If he hulks out today and goes on the rampage against Rosberg (anyone else see him getting round Rosberg at Mirabeau and then storming off?) it would be the best thing for him. This has happened to a few drivers over the years - A certain M. Webber was known to occasionally go into meltdown over his team-mate unfair antics. I suspect Hamilton will drive either an incredible race, or a terrible one though, it just depends how well he can separate himself from being angry. History suggests he won't, but come the start of the race, I guess we'll see.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 11:00
by Alextrax52
Hamilton needs to stop comparing himself to Senna and think about what HE would do not what Senna would do. I don't think he's realized that you don't need to be exactly like someone to earn legend status. He needs to drive like himself and he'll achieve it
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 11:38
by SgtPepper
CoopsII wrote:It's a pity this forum doesn't have the capability to run polls as I'd be interested to get a general feeling on how many people think Rosberg snafu'd on purpose. Personally, I don't think he did but I can see why many might think otherwise.
I'm leaning towards it being accidental, but then again I still haven't be able to decide if Schumi did 1994 Adelaide deliberately. Also I fear the media may have made a monster when perpetually comparing them to Prost/Senna...
On a different note, at a BBQ last night chatting to a friend who is an avid football fan and doesn't follow F1 at all, yet said that 'of course' he would watch the Grand Prix 'because it's Monaco'. Was rather surprised.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 11:43
by LukeB
Are we onto ROTR yet? WHAT A WONDERFUL WEEKEND TO CELEBRATE THE RELEASE OF THE NEW X-MEN MOVIE HERE IN MONACO!
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 11:47
by Londoner
Hoping for all hell to break loose between the Silver Arrows, with Ricky picking up the pieces and powering to his first F1 victory.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 11:52
by F1000X
Will there be a chatroom anywhere during this race?
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 11:55
by RonDenisDeletraz
F1000X wrote:Will there be a chatroom anywhere during this race?
Yep
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 12:00
by dinizintheoven
That's interesting... RTL have changed their captions so that Daniil Kwjat is now Daniil Kvyat, as he is on this side of the channel.
...and Maldolan's glued to the grid with Horrible Hugtight!
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 12:04
by SgtPepper
Kimi you beautiful man.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 12:10
by Jocke1
Vettel is the new Webber
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 12:11
by rachel1990
Oh Sebastian- Bet he has another hissy fit
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 12:15
by rachel1990
and its over- I wonder if Mark Webber has a voodoo doll of him...
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 12:15
by Enforcer
WeirdKerr wrote:Enforcer wrote:WeirdKerr wrote:Whether if it was deliberate or not Rosberg should be Penalised as he STILL caused the Yellow ......
I wasn't aware causing a yellow flag was a penalty offence in F1.
Was causing(whether Deliberate or other wise) a yellow that saves your qualifying position made an offence in 2006 following what Micheal did I.E. he set the precedence
Ludicrous. Schumacher was punished because he was adjudged to have caused the yellow intentionally and you know that. Rosberg wasn't adjudged to have done it deliberately, because he most likely
didn't. And if he did do it deliberately, he's the best F1 driver ever to live to be able to intentionally lost control there in that manner and not at least shave the nose off.
I assume therefore you can see the difference, unless you love Lewis Hamilton so much that it spoils your objectivity, or you're one of these people with that peculiar fetish for putting down Germany and German people at every opportunity in public discourse..
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 12:20
by Londoner
Cars being investigated for incorrectly lining up on the grid?! The bathplug is with these stewards? :L
Kvyat becomes the 4th retirement. Finally, we're getting the lel rel we've been waiting for.
Re: The 2014 'Max For 25' Monaco Grand Prix Thread
Posted: 25 May 2014, 12:40
by Jocke1
Yannick wrote: Now isn't Sutil supposed to be a Monaco specialist? He'd better show it in the race.