Grand Prix Rejects

Captain Hammer wrote:I'm just repeating what I've heard.

I've also heard that Force India find di Resta very difficult to work with, and if that is the case, the team might decide that he isn't worth the engine subsidy. Especially if Mercedes have other young drivers out there that they might like to promote one day.

>inb4 Gary Paffet getting his hopes up again.

One or two fail drivers in decent seats is something that provides good comic relief, but I don't want the whole midfield to be made up of them. Although by that logic I probably should not dislike Bottas as much

And all to the backdrop of MasterCard sponsorship:

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/11/ ... -enter-f1/

Captain Hammer wrote:And all to the backdrop of MasterCard sponsorship:

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/11/ ... -enter-f1/

Oh lord yes!

Back to reality (Williams land) look at all the Good number two drivers we could have....

Now, the best Williams could do is to hire Alguersuari along Maldonado, and the best Force India could do is... well, look at something better than Sutil.

Aerond wrote:Now, the best Williams could do is to hire Alguersuari along Maldonado, and the best Force India could do is... well, look at something better than Sutil.

I agree. Kobayashi and Kovalainen are better than Sutil in my opinion. And it won't help Sutil that he didn't drive in 2012, not even in a different series permanently.

pi314159 wrote:

Aerond wrote:Now, the best Williams could do is to hire Alguersuari along Maldonado, and the best Force India could do is... well, look at something better than Sutil.

I agree. Kobayashi and Kovalainen are better than Sutil in my opinion. And it won't help Sutil that he didn't drive in 2012, not even in a different series permanently.

Yeah but I can't think of any driver that knows Force India better than Sutil. Remember, he was their Friday driver when it was known as bleeding Midland! I don't think there would be any problem with him rejoining and finding his feet straightaway. He's also turned into a fairly (yes, only fairly) consistent driver who can score good points when it seemed unlikely. Malaysia, Nurburgring and Brazil 2011 spring to mind. Also very good in the wet (Japan 07 and Monaco 08 say hello). Granted, he's not a solid 'development' driver and I'm unsure what his technical feedback is like, but you don't remain at a team for 6 years and three owner changes by being crap.

I also didn't realise Di Resta was still unsigned! A Sutil-Alguersuari line-up would be very good for Force India. I may be British, but I don't rate Di Resta as high as other people. He's just a typical midfield driver and will never score a podium, let alone a win. Mercedes future driver? Just no.

pi314159 wrote:

Aerond wrote:Now, the best Williams could do is to hire Alguersuari along Maldonado, and the best Force India could do is... well, look at something better than Sutil.

I agree. Kobayashi and Kovalainen are better than Sutil in my opinion. And it won't help Sutil that he didn't drive in 2012, not even in a different series permanently.

Mind you, Kovalainen has also stated that he doesn't have the means, nor the inclination, to become a pay driver and purchase his seat:

"We are looking at other options...but even the other options require some money, teams asking for money, and I don't want to go that route," said Kovalainen.

"I told my management not to actively find money. I don't think it leads to anything. If you had a big backer like Santander, and they went with you to a team then that's a different thing.

"But to collect the money in a pot for one season, to me it doesn't really do anything," added the 31-year-old Finn.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/2 ... 1Q20121123

That article from Reuters also notes that one of the conditions for a seat at Force India is sponsorship, which would count against figures like Kobayashi and Alguersuari (drivers with a reasonable amount of experience but little in the way of cash) who might be competing for that seat.

I find di Resta unaccountably sinister and would be more than happy to see him replaced. F.I. would be much better with a Kobaiyashi/Algersauri line-up.

the website ashley madison (a website about "infidelity datings", cheatings, etc) offered a sponsorship deal to Bruno Senna ($4 millions deal). If he accepts, he will run with a pink helmet

Proposed Helmet:


In brazilian portuguese:
http://www.foxsports.com.br/blogs/view/ ... -temporada

This made me laugh

fjackdaw wrote:I find di Resta unaccountably sinister and would be more than happy to see him replaced. F.I. would be much better with a Kobaiyashi/Algersauri line-up.

I never thought of him as sinister up til now... now I can't shake it!

Kamui Kobayashi thinks he can race in 2013. He says he's talking to a team - no word on who, of course - and he admits it is going to be difficult, but if he gets some money in, then he thinks he might be in with a chance.

I think the only feasible move for Kobayashi is to go to Lotus. Force India have an opening, but they’ve made it know they are lokoing for someone with sponsors. If Kobayashi couldn’t get sponsors together in time for Sauber, then I doubt he could get them together for Force India. Most of the other teams with vacancies are also looking for sponsors (Caterham), are believed to already have drivers lined up (Williams), or face an uncertain future (HRT).

But Lotus as only confirmed Kimi Raikkonen for 2013. Despite constantly talking about how they’re going to offer Grosjean a seat, the team haven’t announced him yet, and if they really wanted to keep him, they would have done so by now. I think they’re seriously considering other alternatives, given his accident-prone nature. This, in particular, might be a concern for Coca-Cola, who want to compete with Red Bull – and they can’t do that if one of the team’s drivers is constantly in the wars. Even when Grosjean is not the cause, like in the pile-up at La Source, he has a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, like in Abu Dhabi. He’s certainly quick, but he’s wild, and with the Burn sponsorship said to be worth some $30-odd million, there will probably have been some serious discussion about driver line-ups because having someone who is a bit of a crasher could do a lot of damage to a brand. Worse, Grosjean has over-compensated in addressing his crashing problems, and the result has been someone who is too cautious for his own good, which other drivers have been more than happy to take advantage of. I think his eagerness to stay out of trouble has blunted his killer instinct, and that’s not easy to get back.

If Coca-Cola are leaning on Lotus to drop Grosjean, then Kamui Kobayashi is probably the next-best alternative. He hasn’t lived up to fan expectations, and he’s had some disappointing moments, but he is popular, and a popular driver will get a team (and therefore a sponsor) more coverage. Which is why I find it odd that Kobayashi is having so much difficulty finding a sponsor; of all the free agents on the grid, he’s probably one of the most marketable. But he’s also a risk: Grosjean is the superior driver, and Kobayashi is not without his flaws. Lotus will be very wary that Sauber cut him loose, particularly if they think it was on performance grounds. Although Esteban Gutierrez took the seat Kobayashi is holding, Gutierrez is really replacing Sergio Perez to guarantee an influx of sponsor dollars. Nico Hulkenberg is really the driver who replaced Kobayashi, and he doesn’t have much (if any) sponsorship to his name.

That said, I just can’t see it happening. I think getting that Lotus seat will require Kobayashi to push an elephant up the stairs, and even if he somehow manages it, I can’t see him working well with Raikkonen (though to be fair, I don’t think Raikkonen works well with anyone).

That is a very interesting theory you brought up Hammer. And if Burn want to got a foothold in the Asian and Japanese markets then Kimi and Kamui are probably the two best persons to do it there. I also find that Kimi and Kamui would get along very well since they have a bit of the same personality in that they are not very extroverted persons. I think Kimi would find Kamui way less annoying to work with than RoGro. Kamui could teach Kimi to become a friend of Sake.

One who I feel will not be driving next year: Paul di Resta. That guy is a douche, according to his team. Force India would be better of with any of Sutil, Kobayashi, Alguersuari and Buemi IMO.

Captain Hammer wrote:But Lotus as only confirmed Kimi Raikkonen for 2013. Despite constantly talking about how they’re going to offer Grosjean a seat, the team haven’t announced him yet, and if they really wanted to keep him, they would have done so by now. I think they’re seriously considering other alternatives, given his accident-prone nature. This, in particular, might be a concern for Coca-Cola, who want to compete with Red Bull – and they can’t do that if one of the team’s drivers is constantly in the wars. Even when Grosjean is not the cause, like in the pile-up at La Source, he has a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, like in Abu Dhabi. He’s certainly quick, but he’s wild, and with the Burn sponsorship said to be worth some $30-odd million, there will probably have been some serious discussion about driver line-ups because having someone who is a bit of a crasher could do a lot of damage to a brand. Worse, Grosjean has over-compensated in addressing his crashing problems, and the result has been someone who is too cautious for his own good, which other drivers have been more than happy to take advantage of. I think his eagerness to stay out of trouble has blunted his killer instinct, and that’s not easy to get back.

What race were you watching mate?

And I bloody well hope Paul Di Resta gets fired. Apart from his 4th in Singapore, he's done absolutely sod-all to prove he deserves to be in F1.

By no means am I a Paul di Resta fan of any form - but I'd say people are looking too much at the brilliant end of the season performances of Hülkenberg, who in turn was quite anonymous on the first half of the season (a bit like Sutil last season..). PdR certainly is up to F1 standard (David Coulthard potential..) and deserves a seat....for at least one more season.

I would be all set in a bandwagon to fire him though if it somehow results in a seat for Kamui anywhere, but think Force India already is very spoiled with dollar-bringing choice so realistically, can't see it happening.

Benetton wrote:That is a very interesting theory you brought up Hammer. And if Burn want to got a foothold in the Asian and Japanese markets then Kimi and Kamui are probably the two best persons to do it there.

No, that wouldn't work - and the Coca-Cola Company knows that presumably. The Japanese energy drink market is rather hard-fought and gaining a significant foothold requires more than just hiring a Japanese driver (I am thinking in the range of Japanese world champion here and we all know that Kobayashi isn't world champion tier and another 2009 will not be seen within our life time). That was one of the reasons, together with Bourdais' familiarity with the personnel, that Takuma Sato was not hired for Toro Rosso's 2009 effort.

Speaking of sponsors, now Red Bull has a title sponsor: http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... um=twitter

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:Speaking of sponsors, now Red Bull has a title sponsor: http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... um=twitter

Now they should even badge the Renault engines to Nissan.

I agree with Di Resta being fired from FI. Sure, he might have had an acceptable first half-season, but Hülkenberg "warmed up" just like in 2010, and since then he's constantly taking Paul to the cleaners. I'd make a shoot-out between him and Alguersuari for the race seat, something like Williams did twice in the 00's.

Even though Caterham finished 10th in the constructors I believe that Heikki's days with them are over. It was all so apparent in the post race interviews on Sky. Petrov was all smiles and cheerful while Heikki looked like wasn't even satisfied for the team.

Benetton wrote:Even though Caterham finished 10th in the constructors I believe that Heikki's days with them are over. It was all so apparent in the post race interviews on Sky. Petrov was all smiles and cheerful while Heikki looked like wasn't even satisfied for the team.

Given Petrov's surprising drive today, I wouldn't be too surprised if they did keep him... I never quite liked Kovalainen anyways...

As for Pic, I wonder if he let through Petrov on purpose to give them 10th? He is going there next year...

JeremyMcClean wrote:As for Pic, I wonder if he let through Petrov on purpose to give them 10th? He is going there next year...

If he did, it was a very smart move considering the extra cash boost the team will be receiving thanks to that.

JeremyMcClean wrote:

Benetton wrote:Even though Caterham finished 10th in the constructors I believe that Heikki's days with them are over. It was all so apparent in the post race interviews on Sky. Petrov was all smiles and cheerful while Heikki looked like wasn't even satisfied for the team.

Given Petrov's surprising drive today, I wouldn't be too surprised if they did keep him... I never quite liked Kovalainen anyways...

As for Pic, I wonder if he let through Petrov on purpose to give them 10th? He is going there next year...

Does anyone know what happened to Glock because IIRC he was driving ahead of both Pic and Petrov at one stage. Did he have a puncture or an altercation with someone on track?

Benetton wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:

Benetton wrote:Even though Caterham finished 10th in the constructors I believe that Heikki's days with them are over. It was all so apparent in the post race interviews on Sky. Petrov was all smiles and cheerful while Heikki looked like wasn't even satisfied for the team.

Given Petrov's surprising drive today, I wouldn't be too surprised if they did keep him... I never quite liked Kovalainen anyways...

As for Pic, I wonder if he let through Petrov on purpose to give them 10th? He is going there next year...

Does anyone know what happened to Glock because IIRC he was driving ahead of both Pic and Petrov at one stage. Did he have a puncture or an altercation with someone on track?

Dunno. I think maybe they bungled a strategy call, because Kovalainen had a similar race; running ahead of Pic and Petrov, but anonymously falling behind, so either Kovalainen or Glock were on the wrong end of a strategy call and the other pitted to cover them off.

Just read on another forum a certain blah blah blah brazilian is in talks with caterham

S951 wrote:Just read on another forum a certain blah blah blah brazilian is in talks with caterham

He denied the rumour.

S951 wrote:Just read on another forum a certain blah blah blah brazilian is in talks with caterham

Oh God no. Please Caterham, DO NOT SIGN BRUNO SENNA.

If di Resta leaves F1, he'll most likely return to DTM (ex-F1 driver, ex-champion, ex-Mercedes driver), and I don't want to see this bland personality there. I mean, he's soooooooooooooooooooooooo bland that even a glass of milk has more charisma than him. But where should this walking blandness go?

Regarding Caterham it would be SO ironic if Kovalainen stays on now they've got 10th in the constructors, when it was Petrov who got the 11th place finish that gave them that position.

Wouldn't mind seeing more of the Angry Birds helmet though.

Ferrarist wrote:If di Resta leaves F1, he'll most likely return to DTM (ex-F1 driver, ex-champion, ex-Mercedes driver), and I don't want to see this bland personality there. I mean, he's soooooooooooooooooooooooo bland that even a glass of milk has more charisma than him. But where should this walking blandness go?

Don't worry. There will always be Ralf Schumacher to offset the black hole of charisma that is Paul di Resta.

maybe one of yous will know more but pretty sure HK agreed and signed the contract before glocks 12th place but caterham held back due to said result? it's what I've gathered probably totally wrong in regards to VP been reading he has no sponsorship left for next year at all? but may have enough for the russian race? again don't know how true as I don't usually follow that in depth

Klon wrote:

Ferrarist wrote:If di Resta leaves F1, he'll most likely return to DTM (ex-F1 driver, ex-champion, ex-Mercedes driver), and I don't want to see this bland personality there. I mean, he's soooooooooooooooooooooooo bland that even a glass of milk has more charisma than him. But where should this walking blandness go?

Don't worry. There will always be Ralf Schumacher to offset the black hole of charisma that is Paul di Resta.

IF Ralf's bothering to do a sixth year of DTM.

Nuppiz wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:As for Pic, I wonder if he let through Petrov on purpose to give them 10th? He is going there next year...

If he did, it was a very smart move considering the extra cash boost the team will be receiving thanks to that.

From a glimpse of what happened on camera, it looks more like Petrov took advantage of the fact that Pic was having to yield to Alonso, who was lapping the pair of them at the time, to put his car up the inside of Pic's. Petrov had been steadily closing up on Pic over the previous laps by several tenths to 0.5s a lap, plus in those conditions it would have been hard to conclusively ensure that Petrov made it to the end even if he wanted to intentionally let him through.

My mate reckons HK to lotus next year

That is about as likely as Rubens Barrichello going to Lotus. Not only is Heikki Kovalainen Finnish and one-nation teams never work out financially (as Sauber have learned in 2003) unless they are a marketing gimmick themselves (see Mercedes and McLaren), also Kovalainen has failed to outperform Petrov, the very same guy Enstone kicked out at the end of last year.

Klon wrote:That is about as likely as Rubens Barrichello going to Lotus. Not only is Heikki Kovalainen Finnish and one-nation teams never work out financially (as Sauber have learned in 2003) unless they are a marketing gimmick themselves (see Mercedes and McLaren), also Kovalainen has failed to outperform Petrov, the very same guy Enstone kicked out at the end of last year.

Yeah, it wouldn't be a smart move in that respect. I still think Grosjean will stay, but if not there's Kobayashi (a known quantity) or Davide Valsecchi (who did rather well in the YDT at Abu Dhabi)

roblomas52 wrote:My mate reckons HK to lotus next year

Seems legit.

The second seat at Lotus will be interesting though. Odds are still for RoGro but he didn't do him any favors this weekend.

I hope that the remaining seats might end up like this:

Lotus: Raikkonen, Kobayashi
Force India: Alguersuari, Sutil/Bianchi
Williams: Maldonado, Bottas
Caterham: Pic, van der Garde/Petrov
Marussia: Glock, Chilton

Nuppiz wrote:Bottas confirmed at Williams

Great to see a future race winner or maybe even champion get signed thats how high I rate him

roblomas52 wrote:

Nuppiz wrote:Bottas confirmed at Williams

Great to see a future race winner or maybe even champion get signed thats how high I rate him

I'd suggest you hide from Eurobrun mate.

Seriously though, Bottas cannot be as bad as Senna was. Hopefully Williams will produce another good car, the Reverend will pull his socks up once more, and maybe another race victory for next season?