Grand Prix Rejects

JeremyMcClean wrote:Do we know what team Alguersuari rejected?

No, but he has stated unequivocally that it was NOT Williams or HRT. He cited he was 'not looking to pay' for a seat in reference to Williams and HRT 'did not have a car for him' (he meant performance-wise, the statement was in Spanish).

We can immediately remove Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari. Mercedes is unlikely as both drivers were still under contract, and after rejecting a 'very good offer' he is pursuing the test driver role now, which suggests he was not before. Di Resta-Hulkenberg were the expected FI lineup for a long time (or perhaps Sutil in the mix somewhere, but not Jaime). Caterham and Marussia can be ruled out on account of the money problem (having to buy Trulli out of a contract would have scuppered his plans to get a Caterham seat).

Renault is a good shout for his declined offer though. Grosjean was announced on Dec 9 and Alguersuari was sacked on Dec 11. Given there were less than two weeks between the end of the Brazilian GP and LRGP's announcement of Grosjean, the time-frame fits. They went to Alguersuari first, he declined, they went to RMMMMNNN GRRSSSJJJNNN as second choice.

The only other plausable alternative I can think of is him replacing Kobayashi at Sauber I don't believe Kamui brings any money to the team, whereas Perez has a rather handy asset in Carlos Slim.

But my logical guess would be Lotus-Renault.

The only 'top' team with a test slot left is Mercedes. Red Bull already have a) Buemi and b) Helmut Marko, who we all know didn't rate Jaime. Ferrari have Gene and Fisichella, so I wouldn't imagine there'd be space for anyone else. McLaren also have 2, Paffett and Oliver Turvey.

I think if Alguersuari managed to get the reserve space at Mercedes in time for when the new car is launched then that would be a fair move, giving him a bit of time to get used to the car. Fingers crossed

"Hence, being confirmed by Red Bull and STR, I rejected a very good offer."

This is all what Alguersuari actually says. For all we know, it could have been a testing role, although it makes more sense that it was a driving one.

About the "top team" he talked to in January, we can rule out Red Bull Ferrari and McLaren don't look likely I think, as they are probably putting their eyes on Bianchi and Di Resta. I wouldn't completely rule out Ferrari if it wasn't for Alonso's presence there (two Spanish drivers doesn't seem very marketable). Which leaves us with Mercedes and Lotus, if we are going to accept them as a top team (after all, Lotus scored two podiums in 2011, while Mercedes...). The most likely one, of course, is Mercedes: they are yet to announce their test and reserve driver, and Schumacher won't be driving for ever (or maybe yes... it was in 2002 that rumours of Schumacher retiring started for the first time!). Still, I thought Mercedes was thinking about replacing Schumacher with Hülkenberg; maybe they want to evaluate other possibilities.

BTW, I'm surprised and nearly stunned at how maturely Alguersuari has taken all of this. Not only was he fired without any previous hint, but now we learn he thought he had been confirmed (maybe this isn't how Toro Rosso sees it; but certainly is what Jaime thought). Yet he released a very calm press announcement the day it happened, and has kept that line, saying that it isn't a drama, that he's young and so on. I say "nearly stunned" because this is the same guy who reacted very negatively to Webber's contract being extended (he said that he was not happy and that he would be fired if he was over half a second slower than his teammate), and also the one who made contact with Kobayashi at Monaco on purpose, only because he felt he was being blocked. I really like his reaction, as I have a soft spot for drivers who shut up and drive (that's how I stopped supporting Alonso, although the guy has clearly improved himself recently, and how I've become somewhat of a Button fan these days).

Clos signed as HRT reserve driver.

In the last days, Kevin Magnussen assumed a role in McLaren, doing simulator testing and even testing the car at the young drivers test. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97523

He is one step closer to vindicate the Magnussen talent that his father, Jan, could not translate into results.

DanielPT wrote:In the last days, Kevin Magnussen assumed a role in McLaren, doing simulator testing and even testing the car at the young drivers test. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97523

He is one step closer to vindicate the Magnussen talent that his father, Jan, could not translate into results.

Didn't Magnussen have the mother and father of all big accidents at Macau last year?

Magnussen Jr seems like a decent prospect, he must be about 17-18? I seem to remember Jan Magnussen having a very young lad when racing for Stewart in 1997 and Jan saying something like "He will be World Champion one day".

AdrianSutil wrote:Magnussen Jr seems like a decent prospect, he must be about 17-18? I seem to remember Jan Magnussen having a very young lad when racing for Stewart in 1997 and Jan saying something like "He will be World Champion one day".

According to the Wiki entry, Magnussen Jr (as you put it) is 19, and his record so far does suggest that some of Jan's talent has filtered down to him (his results in the British Formula 3 championship are pretty solid last year). It'll be interesting to see how he fares in the Formula Renault 3.5 series this year, especially given that Red Bull puts most of its drivers through that series these days.

Wizzie wrote:

DanielPT wrote:In the last days, Kevin Magnussen assumed a role in McLaren, doing simulator testing and even testing the car at the young drivers test. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97523

He is one step closer to vindicate the Magnussen talent that his father, Jan, could not translate into results.

Didn't Magnussen have the mother and father of all big accidents at Macau last year?

Yes he had. Just a blip in his career I think. Hope it didn't made him slower.

Vitaly Petrov in Caterham for 2012.

http://www.caterhamf1.com/news/2012/vit ... am-f1-team

We Russians really didn't see that coming, especially _that_ late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

Petrov is in!

My day was looking pretty gloomy, up to the point when I found Petrov has a seat. Now my mum's looking at me oddly and asking me why I'm smiling at my laptop.. which, coincidently is called Vitaly.
After expecting something like this to happen for a while, it had got to the point when I'd given up expecting and had already prepared myself for another season of the Trulli train. (I don't dislike Trulli, I just like Petrov better).

Petrov has enough Roubles to convince Caterham to drop Trulli (& buy out his contract) & still some left for the team budget? It's good business for the team, results will not be vastly different either way & they are in pocket.

All seems a bit underhand though, somehow.

I really hope Caterham have an awful season now and are beaten by even Marussia and HRT.

How come they take this decision just one month before the first race? This is shameful. Based on his 2011 performance, Trulli deserved the sack, but doing it after the guy has even taken part in the first tests is awful. It's exactly what Walkinshaw used to do. And Petrov isn't a reject anymore, so we can't be happy even on that basis

I can't shake the feeling that teams are battling again to see who wins the "most dirty move made to your racing drivers" award. I fell bad for Trulli, regardless thinking he should have retired a couple of years ago. The guy had driven the new car, worked on it and had a contract to race this season. Now he is out of a drive with all seats already taken ( No, I don't think he could have made it elsewhere, but that is not the point). What is the matter with these teams lately?

solarcold wrote:Vitaly Petrov in Caterham for 2012.

http://www.caterhamf1.com/news/2012/vit ... am-f1-team

We Russians really didn't see that coming, especially _that_ late.

Whilst the rumours of Petrov replacing Trulli have been around for some time, they had started fading after Trulli remained in the seat for the first test at Jerez. At least Caterham are being reasonably honest about their reasons - they mention that they made the decision with "a realistic eye on the global economic market" (i.e. looking for a way to break into the Russian market), though it does seem that in doing so they haven't exactly endeared themselves to some observers.

Incidentally, this announcement is almost coincidental with the news that Gascoyne has been promoted to Chief Technical Officer, which means that Mark Smith, the former Technical Director of the team, will now take over Gascoyne's former duties. I almost wonder whether the two stories are linked - perhaps I'm reading too much into that, but I wonder if a change in management also coincided with a change in attitude of the team towards Trulli? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17068858

I don't suppose we'll ever know whether Petrov, or his management, approached any other teams to try to persuade them to shaft their drivers.

I guess I was wrong about that. i still don't think Vitaly will fit in very well at Caterham.

mario wrote:

solarcold wrote:Vitaly Petrov in Caterham for 2012.

http://www.caterhamf1.com/news/2012/vit ... am-f1-team

We Russians really didn't see that coming, especially _that_ late.

Whilst the rumours of Petrov replacing Trulli have been around for some time, they had started fading after Trulli remained in the seat for the first test at Jerez. At least Caterham are being reasonably honest about their reasons - they mention that they made the decision with "a realistic eye on the global economic market" (i.e. looking for a way to break into the Russian market), though it does seem that in doing so they haven't exactly endeared themselves to some observers.

Incidentally, this announcement is almost coincidental with the news that Gascoyne has been promoted to Chief Technical Officer, which means that Mark Smith, the former Technical Director of the team, will now take over Gascoyne's former duties. I almost wonder whether the two stories are linked - perhaps I'm reading too much into that, but I wonder if a change in management also coincided with a change in attitude of the team towards Trulli? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17068858

If the two were connected, it wouldn't make sense as Gascoyne is probably one of Jarno's biggest supporters in the paddock (From memory, one of his first moves when joining Toyota was to bring Trulli to the team with him)

Must say I'm very surprised to see this happening at this time. Whilst I expected Petrov to replace Trulli, never at this moment. Still, I can see this being a positive move for Caterham. Petrov will have a lot of opportunities to prove this year, to himself and other teams, that he is a driver who should be taken seriously. A good place to do it is with a team trying to break into the midfeild. If he can do what Hiekki did towards the end of last year (regularly fighting with the midfeild and sometimes winning), then his stock will surely rise.

me in early december wrote:I'm still sticking to Petrov at Caterham, I think I read a rumour about it before the season ended and somehow I feel like it may be possible.

Ferrim wrote:I really hope Caterham have an awful season now and are beaten by even Marussia and HRT.

How come they take this decision just one month before the first race? This is shameful. Based on his 2011 performance, Trulli deserved the sack, but doing it after the guy has even taken part in the first tests is awful. It's exactly what Walkinshaw used to do. And Petrov isn't a reject anymore, so we can't be happy even on that basis

Absolutely 100% agreed. Don't like that at all. If they were going to drop him they should have done it ages ago. To me it's worse that Toro Rosso's treatment of Alguersuari especially.

Much like others, while I think this is the right move, it feels far too late in the day and must be an awful kick in the teeth for Jarno. Should have been done in November or December, not mid-February.

That's all about money, after all. that's how it's happens. It's obvious that Vitaly deserves an F1 seat, plus Ecclestone wanting russian market and things. It's none less obvious that was a shame to treat Jarno this way. You just don't reject a guy who was truelly sure he'll race with not even stating the competition clear.
Everyone here understands that's really dirty in case of Jarno, we do actually symphatize. Some of us actually hate Vitaly, which is a shame for my nation, from my point of view.

The reason it was so late is probably because of a sponsor that was reportedly indecisive in its commitment to Petrov.

I think it's a good move. He's got 2 tests to get used to the car, so he hasn't missed out on a load of time. I don't wish bad of Caterham at all, because at the end of the day he's a far fresher driver, he's got potential to do well and also brings a few million which should make the livery appear less empty.

I fully understand the decision from an economical point of view. But there should be something more than the economy in the running of any organization. This is like if Williams had retained Rubens Barrichello and then now were dropping him in favour of Bruno Senna. If one of Petrov's sponsors wasn't showing enough commitment -tough luck, then: there's a point when things are over, and in the case of a F1 team drivers it should be the end of the previous year, or in the worst of cases the first test, provided they have told the current driver which his situation in the team is ("ok Jarno, you're likely going to be our second driver for 2012 but we can't give you any guarantees of that, so be prepared for anything"). In the end, people are the most important asset, not money. Maybe they told Jarno about the situation, but from what he publically said during these months that didn't seem to be the case.

Of course, you can also make the counterargument: people is the most important asset, so it's more important to make a deal that can secure the future of many people who are working for the team, than the contract of one driver. I can accept that, and certainly don't want anything bad for the guys working at Caterham, but still feel that the decision has been very unfair to Jarno.

PETROV???
This is interesting, especially late in the off-season...

Wizzie wrote:

mario wrote:

solarcold wrote:Vitaly Petrov in Caterham for 2012.

http://www.caterhamf1.com/news/2012/vit ... am-f1-team

We Russians really didn't see that coming, especially _that_ late.

Whilst the rumours of Petrov replacing Trulli have been around for some time, they had started fading after Trulli remained in the seat for the first test at Jerez. At least Caterham are being reasonably honest about their reasons - they mention that they made the decision with "a realistic eye on the global economic market" (i.e. looking for a way to break into the Russian market), though it does seem that in doing so they haven't exactly endeared themselves to some observers.

Incidentally, this announcement is almost coincidental with the news that Gascoyne has been promoted to Chief Technical Officer, which means that Mark Smith, the former Technical Director of the team, will now take over Gascoyne's former duties. I almost wonder whether the two stories are linked - perhaps I'm reading too much into that, but I wonder if a change in management also coincided with a change in attitude of the team towards Trulli? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17068858

If the two were connected, it wouldn't make sense as Gascoyne is probably one of Jarno's biggest supporters in the paddock (From memory, one of his first moves when joining Toyota was to bring Trulli to the team with him)

Gascoyne's role does partially shift him away from the F1 team though - he is the Chief Technical Officer for the entire Caterham Group, which means that he is also partially responsible for Caterham's road car division and other racing activities rather than just the day to day running of the F1 team (that is what Smith is taking charge of).

Truth be told, it isn't as if there haven't been people calling for Trulli to leave the team or to be fired - there have been a great number of people doing that, including on this forum - and it has to be said that Trulli's 2011 season was underwhelming compared to Heikki even allowing for the reliability problems they had with the car (such as Trulli describing how he had to partially support the heave spring with his feet in the Canadian GP).
Still, it is a fairly sharp reminder of how things work at the back of the grid, though the fact that one of Petrov's sponsors was somewhat recalcitrant to sign up is not a great sign (we've seen more than once that a driver has been signed only for a sponsor to default - it's thought to have cost Chandhok his seat at HRT, and it was rumoured that Petrov's deal with Renault was terminated because a sponsor was slow in paying). Still, I imagine that Captain Hammer will be pleased about the news (speaking of which, he has been quiet for some time now - if anything is likely to get him talking again, this probably is it).

mario wrote: Still, I imagine that Captain Hammer will be pleased about the news (speaking of which, he has been quiet for some time now - if anything is likely to get him talking again, this probably is it).

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/trulli-out-petrov-in/
That'll make him talk again

I expected that Trulli would probably be out of Caterham, based on his 2011 efforts, but I didn't expect it would be this late into the pre-season. I'd say it was a bit vicious dropping him after he had already tested the car, but if anything, it should allow Caterham to move forward this year. What a topsy-turvy silly season this has been, especially as many forum members and the F1 community were expecting a quiet off-season.

How many drivers is that who have basically been screwed over this winter?

There's Trulli, the Toro Rosso guys, Sutil (though maybe he contributed to that himself), Barrichello even, and Petrov himself at Lotus formerly Renault. Guess going back into last season you've got Heidfeld as well!!

James1978 wrote:How many drivers is that who have basically been screwed over this winter?

There's Trulli, the Toro Rosso guys, Sutil (though maybe he contributed to that himself), Barrichello even, and Petrov himself at Lotus formerly Renault. Guess going back into last season you've got Heidfeld as well!!

And yet, through dint of sheer dumb luck alone, Massa still has a drive.

Wizzie wrote:

James1978 wrote:How many drivers is that who have basically been screwed over this winter?

There's Trulli, the Toro Rosso guys, Sutil (though maybe he contributed to that himself), Barrichello even, and Petrov himself at Lotus formerly Renault. Guess going back into last season you've got Heidfeld as well!!

And yet, through dint of sheer dumb luck alone, Massa still has a drive.

Not luck. It is because Alonso is extremely happy with Massa performances... Though he probably should be the only one including Massa himself.

Understanable decision but why did they take away a chance for testing from Petrov?

And I just turned out to be right (interesting podiums thread)

song for trulli http://youtu.be/8UVNT4wvIGY

DanielPT wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

James1978 wrote:How many drivers is that who have basically been screwed over this winter?

There's Trulli, the Toro Rosso guys, Sutil (though maybe he contributed to that himself), Barrichello even, and Petrov himself at Lotus formerly Renault. Guess going back into last season you've got Heidfeld as well!!

And yet, through dint of sheer dumb luck alone, Massa still has a drive.

Not luck. It is because Alonso is extremely happy with Massa performances... Though he probably should be the only one including Massa himself.

I guess that the other problem for Ferrari is who could they replace Massa with? We have to assume that Ferrari would want an experienced driver as they are normally fairly conservative with their driver line up - Massa himself spent several years at Sauber before he joined Ferrari, whilst pretty much every driver for Ferrari in the past few decades has had at least two years worth of experience under his belt and normally more.

I also suspect that in part Ferrari have also been stymied by two things; firstly, that the driver market was extremely flat in 2011 with most of the top rank drivers either already on existing long term contracts (such as Vettel and his contract extension until 2014) or preferring to remain with their current team (Button, for example, is pretty happy where he is at McLaren). The only driver whose contract is potentially expiring shortly is Hamilton - his contract expires this year IIRC - but you have to assume that Alonso would veto that deal instantly...
The other problem is that Ferrari probably were working on a deal to replace Massa with Kubica when Kubica had his accident (after all, Boullier has hinted that the rumours of Ferrari having an option on Kubica might have been true with his comments about not helping Kubica "if he wishes to drive for another team"). With Kubica's accident, Ferrari have found themselves in a slightly awkward situation - he is, of course, unfit to drive, whilst the static driver market means that there have been few drivers on the market recently. Add to that the cost and complications of buying Massa out of his contract, and it is probably the case that Ferrari would prefer to simply wait until the end of this year since their choice of available drivers is likely to be broader, not to mention it'd be much more straightforward.

mario wrote:I guess that the other problem for Ferrari is who could they replace Massa with? We have to assume that Ferrari would want an experienced driver as they are normally fairly conservative with their driver line up - Massa himself spent several years at Sauber before he joined Ferrari, whilst pretty much every driver for Ferrari in the past few decades has had at least two years worth of experience under his belt and normally more.

I also suspect that in part Ferrari have also been stymied by two things; firstly, that the driver market was extremely flat in 2011 with most of the top rank drivers either already on existing long term contracts (such as Vettel and his contract extension until 2014) or preferring to remain with their current team (Button, for example, is pretty happy where he is at McLaren). The only driver whose contract is potentially expiring shortly is Hamilton - his contract expires this year IIRC - but you have to assume that Alonso would veto that deal instantly...
The other problem is that Ferrari probably were working on a deal to replace Massa with Kubica when Kubica had his accident (after all, Boullier has hinted that the rumours of Ferrari having an option on Kubica might have been true with his comments about not helping Kubica "if he wishes to drive for another team"). With Kubica's accident, Ferrari have found themselves in a slightly awkward situation - he is, of course, unfit to drive, whilst the static driver market means that there have been few drivers on the market recently. Add to that the cost and complications of buying Massa out of his contract, and it is probably the case that Ferrari would prefer to simply wait until the end of this year since their choice of available drivers is likely to be broader, not to mention it'd be much more straightforward.

Had Toro Rosso dumped their drivers earlier, would Ferrari have been tempted to pick up one or even both of them? I mean, both of them have more than 2 years experience while Alguersuari in particular has the potential to be a future star.

Alguersuari for Ferrari in 2013???

We can only hope.

patrick wrote:

DanielPT wrote:http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/20052011/58/ferrari-hamilton-potential-driver.html

So, Ferrari are lining themselves in a possible Hamilton signing move. There is nothing like messing it up a bit with Red Bull... This is probably only because Hamilton blinked his eye to Ferrari:

James Allen wrote:Lewis Hamilton’s reaction was fascinating; asked if he was sad that this meant he wouldn’t driver for Ferrari he said, “Why not?” He added that he would have no problem racing alongside Alonso again, although he doubted that the feeling was mutual. “I’ll beat him in a different car,” said Alonso’s 2007 McLaren team mate.

This year Hamilton looks to be the key to the driver market as he finishes his contract with McLaren. And judging from his earlier words regarding the desire to be in the faster car, if he stays where he is, it is unlikely that he commits himself in a long term.

I think a lot of Hamilton's murmuring about Red Bull or Ferrari is more making a statement at McLaren than actually wanting to move. It's clear he loves it there, they owe each other a lot and there's still plenty left in the partnership - he's just trying to make it clear to them that he wants to win out of the box. Lewis likes to whine, sometimes to Rubens-esque proportions - so maybe if McLaren doesn't make a good fight out of this year and starts slowly in '12 (for the fourth year running), then we can start taking him seriously.
I think Jenson will retire after 2012 - he seems happy with what he's achieved and is content to scrap it out and pick up the odd win while Lewis fights for championships. Would love to see him in sportscars.

Red Bull #2 - I could still see them keeping Webber, but otherwise it could quite easily be Ricciardo, or long-shot Kimi. As many have said I can't see them taking drivers from anywhere other than Marko's lot.

Nick Heidfeld could still be off to DTM in 2012, with BMW. Therefore Renault would (hopefully) be Kubica/Petrov, or (sadly) Petrov/Grosjean. I can see Petrov's money running out, but that doesn't mean he can't pick up a drive elsewhere.

Williams will keep Maldonado unless they hit the jackpot elsewhere (which looks unlikely). Rubens knows it's probably the best team he can get a drive with.

If Trulli is still in F1 in 2012 I'll eat the contents of my sock drawer, mostly out of sheer anger

Well you don't have to now that Trulli has been replaced by Petrov.

I don't know where to put this, but given we were talking about money and pay-drivers...

A while ago, the Spanish version of the PDVSA-Williams sponsorship deal was leaked. It appeared to be genuine, and recent developments have reinforced that perception. But I think it wasn't posted in the forums. Here you can find the contract:

http://www.lapatilla.com/site/2011/06/2 ... documento/

Towards the end of the document (page 17) there's a table with three different packages, called options 1, 2 and 3. PDVSA had to choose one of these before the start of the contract, the main difference between them being the amount of space they would get on the car. The amount to pay varied from 20 to 28 million pounds, and increased by 5% every year.

Now, there has been another leak, according with this: http://www.f1zone.net/news/leaked-invoi ... 46m/12339/ and it happens that this fits with the previously known contract: the invoice asks for 29'4 million pounds "in respect of option 3", which effectively is what option 3 of the contract says PDVSA has to pay for the 2012 season.

JeremyMcClean wrote:Alguersuari for Ferrari in 2013???

We can only hope.

Alguersuari is too rejectful for Ferrari tester.