Grand Prix Rejects

Aaaand it's official - Magnussen is now a McLaren driver for 2014.

Holy moly.

That article is very poor journalism. "The Dane's contract is not signed but team principal Martin Whitmarsh is set to give him the drive, sources say." Typical sensationalism from Benson.

Does seem set to happen though which is a very interesting call, if they are that certain on him and Vandoorne might well be better to not waste another year with Perez.

Perez going onto the market does add a fascinating dimension to the driver market though!

If Sergio Perez can't get a seat next season, while Massa can, I will be forced to take drastic action*.


(*grumble slightly)

The article may be fairly badly written, but for some reason, it feels legit. If so, Salamander will be jumping all over the place.

Autosport or it didn't etc. etc.

go_Rubens wrote:The article may be fairly badly written, but for some reason, it feels legit. If so, Salamander will be jumping all over the place.

The article itself is fine, just the headline is poor.

Backmarker wrote:Autosport or it didn't etc. etc.

I've checked Sky Sports and Autosport and there's nothing yet

If this is true, I give my ROTY to Mclaren. Perez doesn't deserve to be fired.

Dj_bereta wrote:If this is true, I give my ROTY to Mclaren. Perez doesn't deserve to be fired.

True. But I don't want to see Whitmarsh there for much longer though.

Dj_bereta wrote:

East Londoner wrote:Massa got the Williams seat? Well that's disappointing. As much as I want to give the guy sympathy, the fact is he just hasn't been good enough since his accident, or indeed since Germany 2010. The odd flash of inspiration, and the odd storming drive aside, he's been mediocre like hell for the last three seasons.

Still, if it ensures Williams are still in a good financial shape for some more seasons, then it's OK. At least Bottas gets another go, poor lad's been hamstrung with this year's car.

Of course, the big question now is...where does The Reverend go from here? Force India? Sauber (to get rid of Gutierrez), Caterham even?

I think Maldonado prefer to stay in home than racing for Caterham.

Maldonado does seem to be of the opinion that he deserves a midfield car at the very least, if not a race or championship winning one, so I expect that he would rather not race than drive for an outfit like Caterham.

As to Massa, I guess that being in a different team where he can act as a mentor to an up and coming driver may help him recover some of his confidence, whilst from the point of view of Williams I imagine that Massa's considerable experience was a factor. Yes, Massa's form seems to have peaked a number of years ago, but he should be a reasonably safe pair of hands for the team and might also help to stabilise their position if he is bringing in some sponsorship.

Ed24 wrote:That article is very poor journalism. "The Dane's contract is not signed but team principal Martin Whitmarsh is set to give him the drive, sources say." Typical sensationalism from Benson.

Does seem set to happen though which is a very interesting call, if they are that certain on him and Vandoorne might well be better to not waste another year with Perez.

Perez going onto the market does add a fascinating dimension to the driver market though!

I have to agree that Benson's headline, as written, is jumping the gun - nothing Whitmarsh has said is a definite confirmation that Magnussen is being given a seat, and in fact what Whitmarsh is saying casts doubt on the rumours that Button had been signed (since Whitmarsh says that he has not signed any driver contracts - putting heavy emphasis on the plural form).

What is interesting is another piece of news that has slipped out via Autosport - McLaren were due to announce their new title sponsor on the 2nd December, but they have said that they are unlikely to announce their new title sponsor until they launch their car in 2014 instead.
That might be another reason why some are wondering if Perez is indeed on his way out - there was some expectation that McLaren might sign a deal with Telmex or one of its subsidiaries, especially since they have replaced some of their Vodafone stickers with Claro Video stickers. If, however, that deal is not going ahead as planned, it might suggest that Perez is not going to be with the team either given that the two are closely linked. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111247

As there's lots of sympathy for Hulk here, where do we want to see him in 2014? Lotus, who are probably going down the toilet (i don't dislike the team but they are in a bad shape financially and for how much longer can they have a car that is "almost competitive" unless pushed by Raikkonen) or Sauber? Or Force India? As much as i'd like to see Hulk get a shot, the Louts deal may be a stinker. One more bad team choice and it will mark him forever. Maybe it's better to stick Pastor in there and keep Hulk in Sauber.

Massa gets a lot of flack here. Flack he doesn't deserve. Every time he outdoes Alonso or showsh good/great pace, the team switch their positions, usually by giving Massa the crap strategy if not an outright order. Ferrari even did it to him in Australia when all drivers had 0 points and Massa was the better Ferrari driver, prompting him to radio back: "What are you doing to me?" when Alonso got an early pitstop and Massa was kept out longer than neccessary. If his own team wont help him, is it any wonder he can't get his mojo back? I agree that backing Alonso is overall a safer bet, but ffs you don't derail one driver so badly that his career is once again called into question.

Good for him to be driving for Williams, let's hope it lights a fire under his ass rather than turn him into yet another driver who didn't call it quits in time.

Autosport are claiming Magnussen decision has been made now.

East Londoner wrote:Yup, it's legit now.

Wow, today's been full of surprises...

So this means that since his commentary career started, Jan and Kevin Magnussen are the first father and son Martin Brundle will have commentated on. I think.

The Autosport article is no more legit than the BBC though, the same "sources say" kind of stuff.

(damn missed my 100th post)

So if it is legit, where to for Sergio Perez? Sauber or Indycars?

If Perez is thrown on the scrapheap, it seems tragic that another promising young driver will be out of F1 after 2 or 3 seasons when they haven't done anything particularly wrong, but just becuase they're not the next Schumacher/Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel. There seems to have been countless drivers in that sort of of situation recently, like Alguersuari, Kobayashi, Petrov and the likes!!

Could Perez come into play for Lotus seat perchance?

Well, Perez and Maldonado are free agents....

Can't say I saw that one coming

It's hard to say whether the Mexican sponsors would follow Perez or stay with Gutierrez.

Okay, this silly season is pretty much the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. Pretty much every move that was made this season I doubted entirely. I didn't believe Raikkonen would return to Ferrari in a million years, and when the rumors grew in intensity I still dismissed them. I didn't think it would happen until Autosport said that a contract had been signed.

And then I thought that Massa would retire, out of his prime and all? Who would take him? Apparently Williams, because Maldonado is quitting. I couldn't believe that either. But I guess I'm happy it happened.

And Webber decided to retire. He still seemed like he had some fight left in him, why would he quit? And his replacement was Ricciardo? Why not JEV? He seemed like the better driver to me. But that's not the weirdest bit. They replace Ricciardo with Kyvat. Who the hell is Kyvat?

And now this whole Magnussen to replace Perez business. I mean come on, you hire him for a season and then he leaves the sport. That's just ridiculous.

F1, you are a strange sport.

This is how I see the rest of the seats playing out:

Maldonado goes to Lotus with Grosjean (face it, Lotus need the money)

Perez goes back to Sauber in place of Gutierrez - they keep the Telmex deal, and Hulkenberg stays as they can now afford him - that should be a good driver line -up.

Force India keep their two existing drivers, they seem to be not too bad financially and they're both doing a solid job.

Caterham and Marussia - no idea, but I do hope that this time Marussia hold on to 10th in the constructors.

Joe Saward has it as well:

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/11/ ... t-mclaren/

Well, well, well, lots of things going on right now, the driver market is on fire! It adds a bit of interest to this otherwise unspiring season ending. It looks like many guys will take a well-deserved vacation from November 25th, and so they want to make their driver decisions before that date.

The writing was on the wall for some time, but I'm still a bit surprised by McLaren's decision on Pérez. I wonder up to what point Hamilton has to do with that: he's no longer with the team, but McLaren know that he was faster than Button, and that probably makes it harder to keep with a driver that has consistently been slower than him, even if not by too much. If Button was McLaren's sole reference point, maybe they would have given Pérez a second chance. I'm just speculating, of course... Anyway, Pérez has become a "Pirelli victim"; he's ended up at McLaren mainly because of his Pirelli-assisted drives of 2012, and the fears that his move to a top team was too early have been sadly confirmed by this experience.

As for Massa joining Williams, I've got the feeling that he might thrive in that environment. He's probably been too loyal to Ferrari -had he left at the end of 2010, which wasn't that bad a season compared to what would come later, and the last time he's looked like winning a race, he could have been in some demand. The fact that he's still found a drive is most likely related to sponsorship, particularly when Williams are retaining Bottas -but I still wish him well. His chances of becoming WC are virtually zero, but a decent couple of seasons before retirement would do him some justice.

As for the rest of the field, with Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren settled, plus Toro Rosso and Williams and the apparent certainty of Grosjean at Lotus, there are less than half a dozen of decent seats in the field: one at Lotus, a couple at Force India and another couple at Sauber. Assuming Sirotkin will join Sauber, we are down to four, with Hulkenberg, Maldonado, Pérez, Gutiérrez, Sutil and Di Resta fighting for them. I've got the feeling that one of the Mexicans will retain a seat, at the expense of the other (the sponsorship concentrating in one of the drivers). Pérez has the higher profile and I would say he's the favourite at the moment, but for which seat? Maybe going back to Sauber alongside Sirotkin? It looks less risky than Gutiérrez, and Sauber has taken drivers back before. This would leave Maldonado at Lotus, if the Quantum deal fails to materialise as is increasingly looking like, and Hulkenberg going back to Force India maybe, alongside a driver who can bring a bit of money, like Sutil. If Quantum money finally comes through, then it would be Hulkenberg at Lotus with Maldonado probably taking his money to Force India, which could open a door for Di Resta to remain (although there isn't too much to choose between him and Sutil).

Finally, if the Sauber deal turns out to be a "Russian roulette", it might well be that there is enough room for all these guys... or that someone else comes from the dark with a lot of money to buy a seat before the contracts are signed. We'll see...

If Perez is not in F1 next year then I will not be watching it any more. I was hardly watching it this year anyway. I hope he can get in somewhere like Force India and revive his career somehow. He has undoubtedly been the fall guy in McLaren's abysmal year.

I like Massa and I hope he can also revive his career but I would infinitely prefer to see Perez and Hulk in confirmed seats rather than him.

What a day - Massa to Williams and McLaren plumping for Magnussen.

I honestly didn't expect Massa to get a seat next season, but perhaps his experience will be good for Williams. (I have to say, nice guy though he seems to be, I have never rated him much, though).

Son of Magnussen being in F1 makes me feel absurdly old. Let hope he doesn't turn out to be another... er... Jan Magnussen...

Wow, and a few months ago some users on this forum were suggesting that there would be virtually no driver line-up changes bar RBR and STR..

good_Ralf wrote:Wow, and a few months ago some users on this forum were suggesting that there would be virtually no driver line-up changes bar RBR and STR..

I don't remember myself being one of those forumites, I was expecting change. But not this much change.

Hound55 wrote:Okay, this silly season is pretty much the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. Pretty much every move that was made this season I doubted entirely. I didn't believe Raikkonen would return to Ferrari in a million years, and when the rumors grew in intensity I still dismissed them. I didn't think it would happen until Autosport said that a contract had been signed.

And then I thought that Massa would retire, out of his prime and all? Who would take him? Apparently Williams, because Maldonado is quitting. I couldn't believe that either. But I guess I'm happy it happened.

And Webber decided to retire. He still seemed like he had some fight left in him, why would he quit? And his replacement was Ricciardo? Why not JEV? He seemed like the better driver to me. But that's not the weirdest bit. They replace Ricciardo with Kyvat. Who the hell is Kyvat?

And now this whole Magnussen to replace Perez business. I mean come on, you hire him for a season and then he leaves the sport. That's just ridiculous.

F1, you are a strange sport.

Well, there is a reason why everyone calls the silly season, well, Silly Season! But anyway, I was not expecting a lot of these moves either. I never heard of Kyvat until he was signed.

Faustus wrote:So if it is legit, where to for Sergio Perez? Sauber or Indycars?

Depending on how strong his end of season form is, I can potentially see Perez staying on in F1 with a midfield team - a move to Sauber is plausible, with Gutierrez being sidelined in favour of Perez, or possibly a move to Force India in lieu of one of their drivers (Force India renews its contracts on a yearly basis, so di Resta and Sutil are both out of contract right now).

LellaLombardi wrote:If Perez is not in F1 next year then I will not be watching it any more. I was hardly watching it this year anyway. I hope he can get in somewhere like Force India and revive his career somehow. He has undoubtedly been the fall guy in McLaren's abysmal year.

I like Massa and I hope he can also revive his career but I would infinitely prefer to see Perez and Hulk in confirmed seats rather than him.

His manager has said that he is rather nervous about him being out of the sport, but I do think that Hulkenberg probably will have a seat in F1 for 2014. The situation with Lotus seems unclear, but there is an indication that Force India are prepared to hire him again and, depending on whether Sauber can stabilise their finances, he may stay there instead.
As for Perez, he might also remain in F1 with a midfield team too, but the question would then be at whose expense (potentially quite literally) - he does also have the disadvantage that he is starting some time behind his potential rivals for seats when it comes to negotiating with other teams, so he probably faces more of an uphill battle than most.

Of course, let us not get too carried away just yet - as things stand, McLaren have confirmed nothing despite the fevered speculation and leave us in a situation where, in theory, both of their drivers could be on the way out (Button has said he has a contract in place, but Whitmarsh seems to be at pains to deny this is the case by claiming neither driver has a contract). OK, the momentum is rather shifting towards Magnussen given how frequent these reports now are, but it may well be that what is being reported is what some would like to see happen rather than what will actually happen...

LellaLombardi wrote:If Perez is not in F1 next year then I will not be watching it any more. I was hardly watching it this year anyway. I hope he can get in somewhere like Force India and revive his career somehow. He has undoubtedly been the fall guy in McLaren's abysmal year.

Well, if he couldn't match or beat Button, then there's no reason to keep him. McLaren clearly aren't worried about their budget. McLaren wants drivers that can win world titles. Perez is not a driver that can win the world title. Not even in Vettel's Red Bull.

Kevin Magnussen is going to be the first time I will have seen the first race of both genereations..... I only started watching f1 with Keke Rosberg's last race, and then there is Ayrton and Bruno, but i'm not counting them as it's not a parental lineage.

Well, I'm kinda gutted that Perez got the sack, I'm saddened that he didn't do anything with his time at McLaren. Here's hoping he can rebound and return for Sauber.

In a way though, I'm glad Kevin Magnussen got the drive at McLaren - it will be curious to see what he can do in the car. Obviously he would have had huge amounts of talent if it warranted replacing Sergio, so I'm not doubting McLaren's decision. Here's to a better season at McLaren in 2014.

WeirdKerr wrote:Kevin Magnussen is going to be the first time I will have seen the first race of both genereations..... I only started watching f1 with Keke Rosberg's last race, and then there is Ayrton and Bruno, but i'm not counting them as it's not a parental lineage.

Now your signature really has jinxed Checo.

good_Ralf wrote:

WeirdKerr wrote:Kevin Magnussen is going to be the first time I will have seen the first race of both genereations..... I only started watching f1 with Keke Rosberg's last race, and then there is Ayrton and Bruno, but i'm not counting them as it's not a parental lineage.

Now your signature really has jinxed Checo.

it's been over due for a change...

WeirdKerr wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

WeirdKerr wrote:Kevin Magnussen is going to be the first time I will have seen the first race of both genereations..... I only started watching f1 with Keke Rosberg's last race, and then there is Ayrton and Bruno, but i'm not counting them as it's not a parental lineage.

Now your signature really has jinxed Checo.

it's been over due for a change...

I was going to nominate that signature for ROTY at one point

This is a farce. Magnussen is not ready for a drive straight at McLaren imo. Massive gamble anyway.

Mind you,Massa will be only the second veteran Brazillian Ferrari number 2 with not much success(except 2008) to go to to Williams.

Ferrim wrote:The writing was on the wall for some time, but I'm still a bit surprised by McLaren's decision on Pérez. I wonder up to what point Hamilton has to do with that: he's no longer with the team, but McLaren know that he was faster than Button, and that probably makes it harder to keep with a driver that has consistently been slower than him, even if not by too much. If Button was McLaren's sole reference point, maybe they would have given Pérez a second chance. I'm just speculating, of course... Anyway, Pérez has become a "Pirelli victim"; he's ended up at McLaren mainly because of his Pirelli-assisted drives of 2012, and the fears that his move to a top team was too early have been sadly confirmed by this experience.

I'd go a step further than this and suggest that McLaren see no future in Jenson Button. Perez was definitely benchmarked against him and only fell a little short but now he's gone. What does that say about Button? That McLaren see him as the minimum acceptable performance, average at best. What's to say that had Perez beaten Button, we'd be seeing Jenson without a drive in 2014? As it is, there is a lot of talk around Alonso joining in 2015 and if Magnussen is half as good as McLaren think he is then it will be Jenson who's shown the door.

Also, what's the chance that if Magnussen doesn't perform as well as Button, he'll be kicked out? Nought I would have thought, which goes to emphasise how unfair Perez is having it (not that Kevin doesn't deserve his shot at F1, he's shown pace and consistency in a strong feeder series).

As for Massa at Williams, I think this is a good move for both parties. Maldonado's relationship with the team has clearly soured and I can see Massa leading the team much in the way that Barrichello did before. I think that the move will show simply that Massa has just been suffering from Fisichellitis (and being screwed over by Ferrari strategies) and he'll find his feet again in a midfield team.

As for the remaining seats, in my view being 1x Lotus, 2x Sauber, and 1x Force India (one of the drivers staying, although I don't know which), it's anyone's guess. Ignoring the Caterham (don't see anyone other than Pic, van der Garde or some rich lower formulae driver going there) and Marussia (Bianchi signed, Chilton probably following), there is Maldonado, Perez, Hulkenberg, Di Resta/Sutil, Gutierrez, Sirotkin and maybe Valsecchi fighting over 4 seats. Interesting!

eurobrun wrote:This is a farce. Magnussen is not ready for a drive straight at McLaren imo. Massive gamble anyway.

If the champion of the best single seater series after Formula 1 is not ready to drive for McLaren, then we may as well just keep going with the status quo lineups and abandon the sport when the current group of drivers dies of old age.

None of us here are qualified to state whether Kevin Magnussen is worthy of a McLaren seat or not. But if you take subjectivity regarding talent out of the equation, if Magnussen is not good enough for the seat, neither is anyone in the world who does not already drive in Formula 1.

Let's take a lowdown of every rookie to join a Top 5 team since the turn of the century, shall we?

KEVIN MAGNUSSEN // McLAREN // 2014 - Only time will tell
NICO HULKENBERG // WILLIAMS // 2010 - Was reigning GP2 champion. Got a pole position, which is more than can be said for veteran team-mate Barrichello. They were a Top 5 team the year before he signed, but certainly not after. He had a slow start, but what do you expect from a rookie? He picked it up and by the end of the year was matching Rubens.
KAMUI KOBAYASHI // TOYOTA // 2009 - Midseason replacement doesn't really make it a fair fight for him against others in this scenario. A last roll of the dice by Toyota. Had a horrible GP2 career, still did enough in his two debut appearances to get another two seasons in the sport.
KAZUKI NAKAJIMA // WILLIAMS // 2008 - Yes, he had 1 race beforehand, but only because Wurz called it quits early. He was very medicore, as had been his junior formulae career.
LEWIS HAMILTON // McLAREN // 2007 - Debut season, 1 point from world championship. Second season, world champion. So, the last time McLaren hired a rookie, it didn't exactly backfire did it...
NICO ROSBERG // WILLIAMS // 2006 - Went into the sport as reigning GP2 champion. The car was an utter dog, he had no chance of proving his talent in it. Still only 3 points off Mark Webber. Has gone on to prove his worth, a match for Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes.
FELIPE MASSA // SAUBER // 2002 - Was reigning Euro Formula 3000 (i.e. not even the real deal international series) champion. Wasn't too far off Heidfeld. Already had Ferrari backing.
TAKUMA SATO // JORDAN // 2002 - He may have secured the seat thanks to his association with Honda, and Jordan's contract with Honda, but he went in as reigning British F3, Macau GP and F3 Masters champion. Outpeformed by every team-mate he ever had until moving to Super Aguri.
JENSON BUTTON // WILLIAMS // 2000 - Considered hideously underqualified when chosen ahead of Antonio Pizzonia. Acquitted himself well enough, albeit not a sensation in his first season.

Look at that list, and look at what it's achieved. 2 world championships, 51 race wins, 59 pole positions. Kevin Magnussen has a junior formulae CV to match the best drivers in this list, and one surpassing the also-rans such as Nakajima and Sato.

You are highly unlikely to find an expert willing to say Kevin Magnussen is not cut out for a team that's 5th in the championship. Where do you think he belongs, a Marussia? History clearly shows that, barring a disaster, he will do just fine. Yes, his father was hyped up and didn't live up to expectations, but it doesn't mean Kevin will do the same.

watka wrote:As for Massa at Williams, I think this is a good move for both parties. Maldonado's relationship with the team has clearly soured and I can see Massa leading the team much in the way that Barrichello did before. I think that the move will show simply that Massa has just been suffering from Fisichellitis (and being screwed over by Ferrari strategies) and he'll find his feet again in a midfield team.

All Barrichello did was help lead them to one of their worst seasons in living memory