Grand Prix Rejects

ibsey wrote:

Ben Gilbert wrote:

ibsey wrote:
Not quite sure what you mean there.

Another guess however... perhaps they won a race that was longer than 2 hours?

What I mean is is that the achievement has something to do with victories, but it isn't either one of your previous guesses.

Ben, I've just edited my last post as you replied. Does it have something to do with Jean-Pierre Beltoise win taking so long & therefore changing an F1 rule as a result?

So perhaps the other drivers also have won a race, which change some sort F1 rule then?

I've just seen that now, and you're still nowhere near, I'm afraid.

Perhaps I should clarify. The achievement is to do with victories, but it isn't to do with a circumstance of a specific victory itself. It's something...more statistical, if that makes sense.

Plus tommy's clue from the previous question can also be applied.

I'm not sure, but I think I've got it.

They both had a season where their only points finish/finishes were wins.

Beltoise scored no other points in 1972, Ascari won every race he finished in 1952.

The other drivers would be: Juan Manuel Fangio (1950), Luigi Fagioli (1951), Luigi Musso (1956), Giancarlo Baghetti (1961), Jim Clark (1965, 1968), Ludovico Scarfiotti (1966), Jochen Rindt (1970), Peter Gethin (1971) and Jean-Pierre Jabouille (1979, 1980).

Jabouille was the Frenchman. He took his team's first win, and both his wins came in years when he didn't score anymore points.

Finally, Fagioli and Musso's wins aren't as secure as the others because the wins were shared.

Is that correct?

tommykl wrote:I'm not sure, but I think I've got it.

They both had a season where their only points finish/finishes were wins.

Beltoise scored no other points in 1972, Ascari won every race he finished in 1952.

The other drivers would be: Juan Manuel Fangio (1950), Luigi Fagioli (1951), Luigi Musso (1956), Giancarlo Baghetti (1961), Jim Clark (1965, 1968), Ludovico Scarfiotti (1966), Jochen Rindt (1970), Peter Gethin (1971) and Jean-Pierre Jabouille (1979, 1980).

Jabouille was the Frenchman. He took his team's first win, and both his wins came in years when he didn't score anymore points.

Finally, Fagioli and Musso's wins aren't as secure as the others because the wins were shared.

Is that correct?

Mostly.

The achievement was that they all had a season where all of their points came from wins.

Fangio actually scored a point from his fastest lap in the final race of 1950, so he is discounted. In his place, Tony Brooks took three victories in 1958 and no other points finishes. Also Roger Ward won the Indy 500 in 1959. With all the other 500 winners, I discounted them as they had no other participation in those years. However, Ward also took part in the inaugural USA Grand Prix, and thus is included in my total.

Evidently, though, I also need to be more attentive. I missed off both Rindt and Clark's 1965 entry in this list, so that leaves us with ten drivers (twelve in all)

Jabouille was the Frenchman, and orignally I had him as the only person to achieve this twice. However, with what is written above in mind, I can now see this is incorrect. However, Jean-Pierre is still in the unique situation of walking away from a full season with just a win and nothing more twice.

And, yes, the two Luigi's were borderline inclusions for their shared entries.

So...I really needed to be more thorough when putting this quesion together.

Yeah, I assumed you wouldn't count the Indy 500, but I failed to notice Ward's Sebring attempt (in a midget car, no less), though I knew it happened. I don't know how I missed Brooks, though.

Easy question........what is this?

eagleash wrote:Easy question........what is this?

Sam Posey, Surtees TS9, 1972.

Faustus wrote:

eagleash wrote:Easy question........what is this?

Sam Posey, Surtees TS9, 1972.

Posey, Surtees, 1972, correct......but it's not a TS9

eagleash wrote:Posey, Surtees, 1972, correct......but it's not a TS9

Fair point. TS9B, then.

eagleash wrote:

Faustus wrote:

eagleash wrote:Easy question........what is this?

Sam Posey, Surtees TS9, 1972.

Posey, Surtees, 1972, correct......but it's not a TS9

Is it the TS9B?

Or, have you thrown us a curveball, and was the car which we are looking at subsequently converted into a F5000 car (Surtees and McLaren did convert some of their cars from F1 to F5000 specification), and therefore carries a different designation?
[Also, just noted that Faustus has beaten me to it, I believe - not quite quick enough, I guess].

Is it a horrendous spelling mistake?

Posey without the e...

mario wrote:Is it the TS9B?

Or, have you thrown us a curveball, and was the car which we are looking at subsequently converted into a F5000 car (Surtees and McLaren did convert some of their cars from F1 to F5000 specification), and therefore carries a different designation?
[Also, just noted that Faustus has beaten me to it, I believe - not quite quick enough, I guess].

You may be right mario. On closer inspection, that engine does not look like a DFV, does it? It's a TS11.
Check it out on this page:

http://www.oldracingcars.com/surtees/ts11/

Faustus wrote:

mario wrote:Is it the TS9B?

Or, have you thrown us a curveball, and was the car which we are looking at subsequently converted into a F5000 car (Surtees and McLaren did convert some of their cars from F1 to F5000 specification), and therefore carries a different designation?
[Also, just noted that Faustus has beaten me to it, I believe - not quite quick enough, I guess].

You may be right mario. On closer inspection, that engine does not look a DFV, does it? It's a TS11.
Check it out on this page:

http://www.oldracingcars.com/surtees/ts11/

That is correct...

(The Pic,BTW, was taken at the Crystal Palace, Spring Bank Holiday meeting May 30 2011).

this begs the question what was the difference between f1 and f5000, im guessing just the size of the engine F5000 having a 5l V8?

WeirdKerr wrote:this begs the question what was the difference between f1 and f5000, im guessing just the size of the engine F5000 having a 5l V8?

It was a curious mixture of things basically a sort of Formula Libre with a 5-litre max capacity, but not all cars ran with that size block. Some manufacturers produced specialist chassis, some converted F1 cars. The big Chevy engined cars were quite spectacular & it was more successful (strangely) in America where it was inspired by the big blocked Can-Am cars. Regs were extended to include the cars in other series & vice versa....

Here's what Wiki has to say.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_5000

Which American motorsport (I won't specify which series) driver was hinted as the replacement for Ricardo Zonta at BAR for 2001?

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Which American motorsport (I won't specify which series) driver was hinted as the replacement for Ricardo Zonta at BAR for 2001?

No idea, but I'd guess Gil de Ferran.

No clue, but maybe it was one of BAT-supported drivers. Bryan Herta? Michael Andretti?

Helio Castronevez?

All wrong I'm afraid!

Was J-PM mentioned in connection with the drive, before the Williams deal was announced?

eagleash wrote:Was J-PM mentioned in connection with the drive, before the Williams deal was announced?

JPM was always going to drive for Williams. He was their test driver in 1997, and I think they decided they would wait a year before putting him in the car after his F3000 title, so they swapped him with Zanardi at CGR. After JPM's CART title, he decided to stay on a year, hence Button's Williams seat. The next year, JPM took his rightful place at Williams.

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

eagleash wrote:Was J-PM mentioned in connection with the drive, before the Williams deal was announced?

JPM was always going to drive for Williams. He was their test driver in 1997, and I think they decided they would wait a year before putting him in the car after his F3000 title, so they swapped him with Zanardi at CGR. After JPM's CART title, he decided to stay on a year, hence Button's Williams seat. The next year, JPM took his rightful place at Williams.

None of which stops him being "hinted at" as Zonta's replacement.....

eagleash wrote:

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

eagleash wrote:Was J-PM mentioned in connection with the drive, before the Williams deal was announced?

JPM was always going to drive for Williams. He was their test driver in 1997, and I think they decided they would wait a year before putting him in the car after his F3000 title, so they swapped him with Zanardi at CGR. After JPM's CART title, he decided to stay on a year, hence Button's Williams seat. The next year, JPM took his rightful place at Williams.

None of which stops him being "hinted at" as Zonta's replacement.....

Point taken. Button was indeed seriously in the limelight to permanently take the Williams seat.

Bryan Herta?

Jimmy Vasser......?

eagleash wrote:Jimmy Vasser......?

There we go!

Vasser's CART future was looking more and more uncertain as it became clear Chip wasn't really intent on holding on to him for another season. Prior to the Laguna Seca race, he had (allegedly) tested the BAR 002. Vasser was quoted as saying; "Well the team was really fantastic, their top guys, and it would be great if I could get into Formula 1". During the Laguna Seca race weekend, the rumour spread, and then he was supposed to have another go some time after the LAG race. He also said that he would be present at the US GP, to see how a race weekend works, and perhaps to get closer to the team. In the end of course, he went of to Pat Patrick's team. Would have been interesting to see how a season went. I personally think it would have been another Zanardi disaster, considering Vasser's age, and the fact he had absolutely no F1 experience before. Shame really, he's a terrific fellow.

OK, I'll have a go (probably already been asked but I couldn't see anything recent) ...

This is an accomplishment that only Sebastian Vettel and Heikki Kovaleinen have achieved out of the current F1 drivers.

Jenson Button has tried and failed, and Vettel himself has also failed.

What have they achieved (or not, as the case may be)?

Retiring twice in a row on the first lap?

I can recall Vettel having that in Bahrain and Spain 2008, Kovalainen had same fate in Australia and Malaysia 2009.

Bleu wrote:Retiring twice in a row on the first lap?

I can recall Vettel having that in Bahrain and Spain 2008, Kovalainen had same fate in Australia and Malaysia 2009.

That may be true, but it's not the answer I'm looking for. (The bit about trying and failing is also relevant) ...

I'll give you a slight clue, the answer may not be to do with F1 directly ...

P.S. I'm not going to be online now until tomorrow morning (UK time), so won't be able to confirm if anyone's correct until then.

Cutting (or almost) off a finger at some point in their careers?

Both were Nations Cup champions at the Race of Champions?

BTW, I've just realizaed this thread really belongs to the JDD Memorial Forum, since it isn't necessarily about up-to-day F1. I'll move it there, OK?

Phoenix wrote:BTW, I've just realizaed this thread really belongs to the JDD Memorial Forum, since it isn't necessarily about up-to-day F1. I'll move it there, OK?

After 48 pages????!!!!!

eagleash wrote:

Phoenix wrote:BTW, I've just realizaed this thread really belongs to the JDD Memorial Forum, since it isn't necessarily about up-to-day F1. I'll move it there, OK?

After 48 pages????!!!!!

It's been not that long since I entered the moderators panel, so I couldn't care less about that fact.

Hmm....not really the conciliatory response one might expect from a moderator.....

Phoenix wrote:Both were Nations Cup champions at the Race of Champions?

Very, very nearly there ... It's to do with the opposition, I'll take this as close enough to be correct.

Both Heikki and Seb have defeated Michael Schumacher at the Race of Champions 1-on-1, and are the only F1 drivers to have done so.

F1 drivers that MSC has beaten are : Button, Bourdais, Vettel, Coulthard and Prost. Quite an impressive record really, and Heikki just got lucky ...

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:

eagleash wrote:Jimmy Vasser......?

There we go!

Vasser's CART future was looking more and more uncertain as it became clear Chip wasn't really intent on holding on to him for another season. Prior to the Laguna Seca race, he had (allegedly) tested the BAR 002. Vasser was quoted as saying; "Well the team was really fantastic, their top guys, and it would be great if I could get into Formula 1". During the Laguna Seca race weekend, the rumour spread, and then he was supposed to have another go some time after the LAG race. He also said that he would be present at the US GP, to see how a race weekend works, and perhaps to get closer to the team. In the end of course, he went of to Pat Patrick's team. Would have been interesting to see how a season went. I personally think it would have been another Zanardi disaster, considering Vasser's age, and the fact he had absolutely no F1 experience before. Shame really, he's a terrific fellow.

Bryan Herta's name was mentioned one or two times. He was rumoured/linked to Minardi, as he could have brought some US dollars in 2002. The only chance he drove in F1 was when he drove at Donington I think in the 2 seater Minardi

eagleash wrote:Hmm....not really the conciliatory response one might expect from a moderator.....

Well, no ther moderator has ever taken care of this little fact either

The answer to the Murray Walker question was "Bolster's gone off!"

Anyways here's another one:
After his monster shunt in the 2001 German Grand Prix Luciano Burti took the restart in the spare Prost which had been set up for Jean Alesi. What did he have to say about the car?

Wizzie wrote:The answer to the Murray Walker question was "Bolster's gone off!"

Anyways here's another one:
After his monster shunt in the 2001 German Grand Prix Luciano Burti took the restart in the spare Prost which had been set up for Jean Alesi. What did he have to say about the car?

That it was undriveable?