Grand Prix Rejects

go_Rubens wrote:

Shizuka wrote:

the Masked Lapwing wrote:Apparently Alendro Scerdi is Caterham's new driver.
Ah, Wikipedia. Where would we be without you?

„He has never raced at a competitive level. CF1 are sure that he will be a greater drive than Caterham's previous driver Giedo van der garde.”

Whoever edited it apparently forgot to capitalize the G

Apparently this dude has no Wikipedia page for himself Probably what happened was a real guy named Alendro Scerdi edited the page with himself to gain more pride. ROTY contender for hilarity, anyone?

It's not like he's the first to ever do something like that.

I have a friend that edited the Wikipedia article for Chessington (my hometown) to say that Barry Chuckle lives here. It's a complete lie but no one has taken it down. Obviously the F1 2014 season page is a little more high profile.

watka wrote:I have a friend that edited the Wikipedia article for Chessington (my hometown) to say that Barry Chuckle lives here. It's a complete lie but no one has taken it down. Obviously the F1 2014 season page is a little more high profile.

Similarly, if you go to the French Wikipedia and search for contemporary Belgian historians, you'll find guys like Alexandre Debuys, Laurent Derochette or Aurélien Moll (yes, that Aurélien Moll). All of whom are friends of mine.

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:

Shizuka wrote:„He has never raced at a competitive level. CF1 are sure that he will be a greater drive than Caterham's previous driver Giedo van der garde.”

Whoever edited it apparently forgot to capitalize the G

Apparently this dude has no Wikipedia page for himself Probably what happened was a real guy named Alendro Scerdi edited the page with himself to gain more pride. ROTY contender for hilarity, anyone?

It's not like he's the first to ever do something like that.

I know that. But it is still veey funny, especially when you read the line "He has never raced at a competitive level."

According to Will Buxton, the Glass of Milk may be on his way to IndyCar. Make of that what you will, considering it's well known who his cousin is...

East Londoner wrote:According to Will Buxton, the Glass of Milk may be on his way to IndyCar. Make of that what you will, considering it's well known who his cousin is...

Please let this be true.

roblomas52 wrote:

East Londoner wrote:According to Will Buxton, the Glass of Milk may be on his way to IndyCar. Make of that what you will, considering it's well known who his cousin is...

Please let this be true.

Actually I've come to respect Di Resta a little bit, He's definitely more deserving of a drive than Maldonado and he's a podium contender on his day but mostly one who brings home decent points. Di Resta should stay in F1 for me?

East Londoner wrote:According to Will Buxton, the Glass of Milk may be on his way to IndyCar. Make of that what you will, considering it's well known who his cousin is...

That would be a shame, I think he is much more deserving of an F1 seat than some.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

roblomas52 wrote:

East Londoner wrote:According to Will Buxton, the Glass of Milk may be on his way to IndyCar. Make of that what you will, considering it's well known who his cousin is...

Please let this be true.

Actually I've come to respect Di Resta a little bit, He's definitely more deserving of a drive than Maldonado and he's a podium contender on his day but mostly one who brings home decent points. Di Resta should stay in F1 for me?

There are rumours going round that both di Resta and Sutil might be leaving Force India - both Sky and the BBC have reported that Force India are trying to hire Hulkenberg, particularly now that Lotus appear to have gone for Maldonado and his PDVSA backing, whilst Whitmarsh has said that he has personally lobbied Vijay Mallya to hire Perez. http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12479 ... 2014-drive

Good joke there from Whitless. If Perez is good why's your team banking on a prospect for the future, which Perez, apparently, is not. Perez is still young and Magnussen could do worse than loiter in McLaren's garage a la Valsecchi. Anyway...

Maldonado is ready to sign for Lotus but for some reason Lotus aren't putting pen to paper just yet. Financially the team need Maldonado but i wonder if they fear they may end up where Williams are now? Or even worse because Williams at least lived a bit longer because of their history. Maldonado has pace and he's got other qualities such as tyre management and agression but he can only do well if the team deliver a good car for him, and the team will likely take the cash and build a perfect car for Grosjean instead. Grosjean may have a bit of a silly season all through 2014.

Maldonado's other option is Sauber but that is likely where Perez will return to, with Hulkenberg returning to Force India or staying in Sauber. Another man who will need to get a seat next year is probably Kovi. He's (so far) still got it and would be more valuable than Di Resta, Sutil or Gutierrez who are currently drivers most likely not to have a seat next year. And there's also Chilton and VdG milling about, ready to perk up the finances of some team. Since they're both in uncompetitive machinery it's not easy to gauge their ability, but i have to admit that whilst Chilton is slow, he lacks confidence to push hard anyway (because the car won't give him any) and he diligently brings the car home in-tact, minus the occasional exhaust bits. I don't think he's fully deserving of a drive in FI or Sauber but i imagine he would do a reasonable job in Sauber compared to Gutierrez. He probably would not have made so many embarassing moments. But then, the pressure would be greater as well.

Since i'm in a ranty mood i'll just list a few points about all.

Maldonado - Lotus. Without him they fall off a cliff, with him they fall out of grace.
Bulk - Force India, 2 years. Best he can get since his weight is a burden. Even though it's a burden today, and he gets a 2013 vintage Sauber 4th on the grid...
Perez - Sauber. He can't get a better drive and leaving F1 would probably not get him any closer to a front running car.
Sutil - He has lost some of that dependability and that might just see him out of F1. Not a bad driver for any midfield team, but the influx of youngsters, why take him?
Di Resta - He wanted out of FI and the team will probably oblige him. Deserves a shot at F1 but where to?
Gutierrez - He's pretty quick, he's been threatening Q3 often enough and even his race pace is good. His head is not fitted properly though. Could benefit from a year in a Caterham or Marussia where he could develop in more piece. Still think he could do the job if he ever strung a weekend together.
VdG - He's not young, but he's not bad, but he's not young. Seems to have gotten grumpy in recent races. Probably knows his time in F1 came and went.
Chilton - His head IS fitted properly. Should quietly develop and see if there's any pace or talent. Should have enough money to find out.
Kovalainen - Damon Hill quipped that Kovi is now at the age Hill was when he entered F1. Currently undergoing a pressure test and if he can deliver his end of the bargain he would become another Hulkenberg. Older and wiser but equally broke and certainly talented. Don't know if a top team would go for him but he would be an asset to any midfield outfit.

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Good joke there from Whitless. If Perez is good why's your team banking on a prospect for the future, which Perez, apparently, is not. Perez is still young and Magnussen could do worse than loiter in McLaren's garage a la Valsecchi.

It certainly makes the team looking like it is at cross purposes when Whitmarsh is talking Perez up but Sam Michael has been talking him down - it makes you wonder if Whitmarsh was entirely happy with the decision or whether somebody else (i.e. Ron Dennis) made the decision on his behalf...

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Kovalainen - Damon Hill quipped that Kovi is now at the age Hill was when he entered F1. Currently undergoing a pressure test and if he can deliver his end of the bargain he would become another Hulkenberg. Older and wiser but equally broke and certainly talented. Don't know if a top team would go for him but he would be an asset to any midfield outfit.

As Hill knows, the days of a driver entering F1 at 32 are over (not that Heikki's entering F1). My suspicions are that Heikki Kovalainen will be on the grid next season with Caterham, but I personally think that Pic and van der Garde and the money they bring are better for the money they bring. I imagine that Caterham have not been impressed with the feedback they've been getting from Pic or van der Garde and want to replace one of them for the better development work that Kovalainen can give (and it's possible he's gathered some sponsorship this season).

There appears to be another mockup of a car under the 2014 rules. If that's a hole in the nose, that's very close to an idea/brainwave I had a little while back which had an extended horizontal "plate" between the nose pylons to ensure greater airflow under the car. Plagiarism, I tell ya...

Ataxia wrote:There appears to be another mockup of a car under the 2014 rules. If that's a hole in the nose, that's very close to an idea/brainwave I had a little while back which had an extended horizontal "plate" between the nose pylons to ensure greater airflow under the car. Plagiarism, I tell ya...

I'm also unsure whether that would be legal - I am reasonably sure that the FIA specified that the nose had to be a closed section, so any openings like that would violate that part of the regulations.

I want to say that if that mockup is realistic then I'm not sure that would meet regulations. IIRC, they're banning all stepped noses for next year.

roblomas52 wrote:

East Londoner wrote:According to Will Buxton, the Glass of Milk may be on his way to IndyCar. Make of that what you will, considering it's well known who his cousin is...

Please let this be true.

I hope he gets into many fights with Graham Rahal if he comes over.



*grabs popcorn*

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Looks like Maldonado will drive for Lotus next year

All because of his...

Perez is available and has money though. And he doesn't use his car as a weapon.

James1978 wrote:Perez is available and has money though. And he doesn't use his car as a weapon.

Whilst Perez does have some backing, against that it is worth bearing in mind that is partially offset by the fact that Perez's salary would be deducted from that sum.

eytl wrote:

watka wrote:Sam Michael's view on the whole Perez-Magnussen business

Even though I think Sam Michael's track record of far too often being involved in bad seasons for supposedly top teams makes me suspicious about what he has to say, I find this comment quite telling and even insightful, when asked about whether McLaren might regret not taking on Hulkenberg:

Sam Michael wrote:"I think you are putting too much emphasis on Nico himself. To be honest, I rate Nico - I was involved in his lower-category career and the start of his Formula 1 career. He's a great driver, but our focus has been internally with Kevin and that's where we've decided to go next year.

"When you mention football players who are 26 and 27 and are proven quantities, if you actually look at the grid, we already have a World Champion in one of our cars. Then you have the choice of trying to get another World Champion, and that's not possible at the moment, so then you have the choice of going down a route which you think will create another World Champion.

"You have to remember that on all of our Young Driver Programmes, they are there to produce World Champions. They are not there to produce also-rans because, quite frankly, McLaren has the buying ability to go and buy anyone we want on the grid in that situation. So therefore if you look at our programme critically, we believe that Kevin can be a World Champion - the same way that we believe Vandoorne can be and anyone who comes in behind him. If we don't, they don't stay on our programme - it's as brutal as that."

It suggests that there is some nagging doubt about whether Hulkenberg is the real deal or not. And when I think about it a bit more, I see the point. Even now, the suggestion that money aside he ought to be the obvious choice for Lotus or any other team looking for a driver seems to come from the fact that he is the "best of the rest", ie the best available driver not already locked into a top team. I guess that's probably how I'd rate Nico as well. What I haven't heard anyone say, for example, is "Put Hulkenberg alongside [insert name of driver in top team] and Nico would come out on top." So if there's not any raging confidence that Hulkenberg could beat, say, Button, Grosjean, Rosberg or Raikkonen, let alone Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel on equal terms, that's not exactly a sparkling commendation is it? In that case, why not gamble on a Magnussen or a Kvyat?

Of course there is the possibility that, with the upturn in form that Sauber has shown, one of Hulkenberg's strongest tracks in recent years (Interlagos) coming up and Button's prolonged slump in form, that Hulkenberg might well end up beating both McLaren drivers in the WDC - Hulkenberg is only 14 points behind Button after all.

Hulkenberg's status is rather odd in some ways, since he has had interest but no firm offers. He was highly rated in Autosport's private post 2012 poll of the team managers (making the top 6 IIRC), reportedly offers decent feedback and seems pretty adept with the press - which seems to be just what most team managers would want. He appears to have been as competitive in junior series as Grosjean, for example - he was paired with Grosjean in Formula 3 and, when you take into account Grosjean's greater experience, Hulkenberg was not that far behind him in the end - and also compared favourably against Rosberg when testing for Williams in the past, so his potential is probably comparable to those drivers at least.

Yet, despite all of that, as you say there does seem to be some resistance amongst the top teams to hiring Hulkenberg. OK, Hulkenberg was a bit hot headed at times whilst at Williams, but that was several years ago and he seems to have matured quite a bit, even if he hasn't pulled his punches when criticising Sauber over the radio in the earlier part of this season. I guess that it does seem as if Hulkenberg takes time to get going in some seasons - something that was common in junior series too, where his strongest performances tended to be towards the end of a season - suggesting that perhaps he isn't quite as quick as some to adapt to regulation changes.

mario wrote:

James1978 wrote:Perez is available and has money though. And he doesn't use his car as a weapon.

Whilst Perez does have some backing, against that it is worth bearing in mind that is partially offset by the fact that Perez's salary would be deducted from that sum.

eytl wrote:

watka wrote:Sam Michael's view on the whole Perez-Magnussen business

Even though I think Sam Michael's track record of far too often being involved in bad seasons for supposedly top teams makes me suspicious about what he has to say, I find this comment quite telling and even insightful, when asked about whether McLaren might regret not taking on Hulkenberg:

Sam Michael wrote:"I think you are putting too much emphasis on Nico himself. To be honest, I rate Nico - I was involved in his lower-category career and the start of his Formula 1 career. He's a great driver, but our focus has been internally with Kevin and that's where we've decided to go next year.

"When you mention football players who are 26 and 27 and are proven quantities, if you actually look at the grid, we already have a World Champion in one of our cars. Then you have the choice of trying to get another World Champion, and that's not possible at the moment, so then you have the choice of going down a route which you think will create another World Champion.

"You have to remember that on all of our Young Driver Programmes, they are there to produce World Champions. They are not there to produce also-rans because, quite frankly, McLaren has the buying ability to go and buy anyone we want on the grid in that situation. So therefore if you look at our programme critically, we believe that Kevin can be a World Champion - the same way that we believe Vandoorne can be and anyone who comes in behind him. If we don't, they don't stay on our programme - it's as brutal as that."

It suggests that there is some nagging doubt about whether Hulkenberg is the real deal or not. And when I think about it a bit more, I see the point. Even now, the suggestion that money aside he ought to be the obvious choice for Lotus or any other team looking for a driver seems to come from the fact that he is the "best of the rest", ie the best available driver not already locked into a top team. I guess that's probably how I'd rate Nico as well. What I haven't heard anyone say, for example, is "Put Hulkenberg alongside [insert name of driver in top team] and Nico would come out on top." So if there's not any raging confidence that Hulkenberg could beat, say, Button, Grosjean, Rosberg or Raikkonen, let alone Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel on equal terms, that's not exactly a sparkling commendation is it? In that case, why not gamble on a Magnussen or a Kvyat?

Of course there is the possibility that, with the upturn in form that Sauber has shown, one of Hulkenberg's strongest tracks in recent years (Interlagos) coming up and Button's prolonged slump in form, that Hulkenberg might well end up beating both McLaren drivers in the WDC - Hulkenberg is only 14 points behind Button after all.

Hulkenberg's status is rather odd in some ways, since he has had interest but no firm offers. He was highly rated in Autosport's private post 2012 poll of the team managers (making the top 6 IIRC), reportedly offers decent feedback and seems pretty adept with the press - which seems to be just what most team managers would want. He appears to have been as competitive in junior series as Grosjean, for example - he was paired with Grosjean in Formula 3 and, when you take into account Grosjean's greater experience, Hulkenberg was not that far behind him in the end - and also compared favourably against Rosberg when testing for Williams in the past, so his potential is probably comparable to those drivers at least.

Yet, despite all of that, as you say there does seem to be some resistance amongst the top teams to hiring Hulkenberg. OK, Hulkenberg was a bit hot headed at times whilst at Williams, but that was several years ago and he seems to have matured quite a bit, even if he hasn't pulled his punches when criticising Sauber over the radio in the earlier part of this season. I guess that it does seem as if Hulkenberg takes time to get going in some seasons - something that was common in junior series too, where his strongest performances tended to be towards the end of a season - suggesting that perhaps he isn't quite as quick as some to adapt to regulation changes.

IIRC, Hulkenberg won the A1 GP title in his second season of motor racing having made the leap from Formula BMW. He is also one of 2 drivers to have won the GP2 title on his debut season, the other was Lewis Hamilton. Although I do understand the concensus that Hulkenberg takes his time to get up to speed, the only real case I could spot straight away was his GP2 season in 2009.

roblomas52 wrote:IIRC, Hulkenberg won the A1 GP title in his second season of motor racing having made the leap from Formula BMW. He is also one of 2 drivers to have won the GP2 title on his debut season, the other was Lewis Hamilton. Although I do understand the concensus that Hulkenberg takes his time to get up to speed, the only real case I could spot straight away was his GP2 season in 2009.

I think one of the reason why Hülkenberg is slow to get going at the beginning of a season is the fact that he is constantly changing teams and before F1, racing series. If he had any consistency with who he drove for in F1, he would surely be better off at the beginning of the season. I mean, sure, he was slow to get going at Williams, but delivered a stunning pole at Interlagos. He took a year off as Force India's reserve driver, came back, and showed his stuff at SFI mid to late in the season, and I think he led the most laps at Interlagos. Maybe I'm wrong, but he lead a lot of laps either way. And this year, you can mostly blame his Sauber car for the slow start to the year, and Sauber has a great upgrade which has made the C32 a competitive machine. So my point is, if Nico didn't switch teams as often as he has, then he may be a more consistent performer.

Hulkenberg's realistic problems are that he is 29 million euros less wealthy than Maldonado, and he is too tall and heavy for next year's regulations, and he is 29 million euros less wealthy than Maldonado. If it wasn't for those 3 issues i'm sure he'd have a drive for next year.

Come to think of it, Sauber have offered him a seat for next year if he wants one.

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Hulkenberg's realistic problems are that he is 29 million euros less wealthy than Maldonado, and he is too tall and heavy for next year's regulations, and he is 29 million euros less wealthy than Maldonado. If it wasn't for those 3 issues i'm sure he'd have a drive for next year.

Correct.

Rightly or wrongly the teams are convinced that excess driver weight is going to cost them dearly next season, as they cannot get the new cars down to below the minimum weight, and some sources are suggesting that a "Hulkenberg" weight driver is going to cost up to 0.2s/lap compared to the smaller ones like Massa, and that would cost $millions to make up. Similar problems ( lack of money, and larger frame) affecting di Resta.

DG

An article from the BBC mainly focussing on Di Resta, but then mentioning pretty much every driver and every seat and mixing-and-matching between them. I actually gave up reading it part way through -
well done if you get to the end with more clarity than you started with! :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/25020099

Andrew Benson strikes again ...

EDIT : Notice that this article has also been posted in the Di Resta thread - I still think it's relevant here but can delete this post if others think it's not needed.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Looks like we won't be at Brazil for the finale next year

This disappoints me about as much as Japan being neither the last nor penultimate race of the year.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Looks like we won't be at Brazil for the finale next year

That's a travesty. What drove the decision?

I never liked Brazil being the finale, preferred it being earlier in the year. I don't know, it just didn't feel right to me. Abu Dhabi would have been a perfect end to the season had the circuit not been so shite. The whole day to night thing is really cool.

Mexicola wrote:I never liked Brazil being the finale, preferred it being earlier in the year. I don't know, it just didn't feel right to me. Abu Dhabi would have been a perfect end to the season had the circuit not been so shite. The whole day to night thing is really cool.

Think of it like this, the beginning of the season was sunrise, and the end is sunset. More or less perfect for a season finale! They just need a season opener that starts at night and goes into daylight by race's end.

go_Rubens wrote:Think of it like this, the beginning of the season was sunrise, and the end is sunset. More or less perfect for a season finale! They just need a season opener that starts at night and goes into daylight by race's end.

No reason we can't do that in Australia - it would suit European audiences!

Well...except that we have stupid local Governments, complaining residents, and ridiculous amounts of red tape to get through....

Bring it back to Adelaide - we had a race that went to (nearly) midnight once!

AustralianStig wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:Think of it like this, the beginning of the season was sunrise, and the end is sunset. More or less perfect for a season finale! They just need a season opener that starts at night and goes into daylight by race's end.

No reason we can't do that in Australia - it would suit European audiences!

Well...except that we have stupid local Governments, complaining residents, and ridiculous amounts of red tape to get through....

Bring it back to Adelaide - we had a race that went to (nearly) midnight once!

Wasn't it an American Le Mans Series race in 1999?

Yep: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_a_Thousand_Years

Pity that they didn't honour the 9 year contract, I would've gone every year! As it was I missed out on going as I was out of town...

GwilymJJames wrote:Benson reports Marcus Ericsson is an option for Caterham

Who wouldn't want someone who's best result in GP2 was 6th, despite having been a consistent title hopeful. Who didn't even manage to finish in the points until the 10th race of this season. Who's never won more than one race per season in GP2. Clearly he has money.

GwilymJJames wrote:Benson reports Marcus Ericsson is an option for Caterham

Hurrah! He'll be hopeless and make Chilton look like Prost

Backmarker wrote:

GwilymJJames wrote:Benson reports Marcus Ericsson is an option for Caterham

Who wouldn't want someone who's best result in GP2 was 6th, despite having been a consistent title hopeful. Who didn't even manage to finish in the points until the 10th race of this season. Who's never won more than one race per season in GP2. Clearly he has money.

Ericsson is a decent driver, I don't know how he got these sponsors but this looks good from Caterham's perspective. On the other hand, it speaks a little about who will get the sack at Caterham.

And the silly season madness rolls on, as The Reverend may be on his way to Sauber.

If this happens, and the Quantum deal inevitably collapses afterwards, Enstone are in a whole world of trouble. That is, unless they can get their hands on Checo's Telmex money. But I can see Perez moving to IndyCar next season.

East Londoner wrote:And the silly season madness rolls on, as The Reverend may be on his way to Sauber.

If this happens, and the Quantum deal inevitably collapses afterwards, Enstone are in a whole world of trouble. That is, unless they can get their hands on Checo's Telmex money. But I can see Perez moving to IndyCar next season.

That would mean that the pieces would likely to fall in the following way: Enstone gets Perez, Hulkenberg moves back to FI, Di Resta looks bound to go to IndyCar and Sauber ends up to partner the Reverend with one of 2 drivers that they most certainly wouldn't want in an ideal world unless they think that there is no such thing as too much cash.

CoopsII wrote:

GwilymJJames wrote:Benson reports Marcus Ericsson is an option for Caterham

Hurrah! He'll be hopeless and make Chilton look like Prost

I don't think so. Ericsson was very fast in GP2, he often qualified on the first two rows this season. He has the same problem as the likes of Leimer and Bird (the more seasons you have in GP2, the more difficult it is to impress) but I don't think he would do much worse than Chilton (who is a decent driver as well). Ericsson could have done much better this year if he wasn't the unluckiest driver in the world.

It would also be nice to see a Swedish driver in F1 after such a long time. Next year, Scandinavia will take over F1!