New teams for 2010

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 05 Jun 2009, 00:20

BB01 wrote:I'm pretty sure modern circuits have pit lanes only need to accomodate 24 cars. That is why the FIA will likely limit the entries to 24.

Yep. Otherwise, we would have situations like Belgium 1994, when the Pacific's garage was between Benetton and Williams, so those two teams had more space when Pacific left the circuit on Saturday night, as they always did.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 05 Jun 2009, 05:03

USF1, Lola and Prodrive will probably get the entries. I'd put on money on it.

Bort · Post by **Bort** » 05 Jun 2009, 06:43

deCrasheris wrote:Let's just say that Sir Jack Brabham is not that receptive of his name being used with his consent and is pondering legal action to secure his name.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75806

Weak!
You sell the team, you sell the name. You snooze you lose. (...insert more catch-phrases here...)

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 05 Jun 2009, 08:57

Having a factory and having sufficient sponsorship backing are the important factors. I don't want to do Max's work, but there are indeed prospected entrants that haven't publicised having one or the other or both at the time. At which factory will the US F1 car be built and who will sponsor them? After all, their shop is located in Charlotte, NASCARland, and there are no tubs being baked in ovens by the teams themselves in NASCAR, because they run the spec car called CoT.
ProDrive, Lola, Epsilon and the successor of SuperAguri sure enough do have a factory and are working on the sponsorship backing.
Has Campos officially announced that Dallara will build their car?
Who is going to build a car for Team Superfund? They are a capable sponsor for sure, but submitting an entry alone creates quite an amount of publicity, which is all that a sponsor asks for.
Litespeed may have an experienced F1 car designer under contract, but the car needs to be built somewhere, costing quite a lot of money.
N Technology are a great touring car team, having dominated quite a few European touring car championships during their heyday in the 90s when they were the works team of Alfa Romeo known as Alfa Squadra Corse. But building a car from scratch still is something different to being a successful team even though you are privateers and run chassis from a marque that you are the only customer of on the whole grid.

And March? There doesn't seem to be much more to it than the name, which could be sold to an existing team should they not make it into the entry list. Max might personally like better that version of March than McLaren-Mercedes, though.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 05 Jun 2009, 09:44

USF1 is using Epsilon Euskadi's facilities in northern Spain.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 05 Jun 2009, 11:51

Bort wrote:
deCrasheris wrote:Let's just say that Sir Jack Brabham is not that receptive of his name being used with his consent and is pondering legal action to secure his name.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75806

Weak!
You sell the team, you sell the name. You snooze you lose. (...insert more catch-phrases here...)

The thing is, Brabham was never entered as 'Brabham Racing' or any such title involving the word Brabham. It was Motor Racing Developments. I'm not sure that Brabham have a leg to stand on with their lawsuit.

Irisado · Post by **Irisado** » 06 Jun 2009, 13:04

BB01 wrote:I'm pretty sure modern circuits have pit lanes only need to accommodate 24 cars. That is why the FIA will likely limit the entries to 24.

Sorry, I had forgotten about the size of the pit lane, and this is a factor, however, you have to remember that Mosley has said that there will be thirteen entry slots available (26 cars), and that older circuits were designed to accommodate thirteen F1 teams in the pit lane, so I'm sure that newer circuits (with larger garages) will find sufficient space for a thirteenth team.

On the specific point of Pacific at the 1994 Belgian GP, they were forced into that situation because there were 28 cars trying to get on the grid in 1994, and not enough full sized garages to go around, so that doesn't apply to a 26 car grid.

Max can't be too happy with the list of supposed entries next year, though. If anyone thinks that all of these teams will be able to make it to the grid next year with teams, cars, engines and sponsors, they have to be kidding themselves. And will anyone watch an F1 race if there is no Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, Toyota, BMW, etc.? They're going to need a lot of Cosworths.

I would watch the racing without all those manufacturers. I've never liked Ferrari, and I have never been a fan of this 'mass manufacturer monopoly'. Supplying engine was okay in my book, but allowing the manufacturers to take control of all the teams was always bound to backfire spectacularly in the end, and this is what has happened. I would love F1 to return to the days of real racing teams and a mixture of privateer and manufacturer engine supplies. Ferrari and Renault have been traditionally the only two teams to do everything in house, so while a couple of pure manufacturers isn't really a problem, the amount of manufacturers that we currently have is bad for the sport and not sustainable in my view, so if a few more of them quit at the end of the year, I won't shed any tears, especially not if new independents are going to replace them.

Speaking of which, despite my earlier misgivings, USF1 do seem to have the best financial package and development programme at the moment, so they must be the favourites to be awarded the first new entry. I still suspect that Campos are in with a good chance, especially if Dallara are building the chassis, as this cuts down on the amount of preparation work the team needs to do on its own for 2010.

As for some of these other entries, this March venture sounds highly dubious to me, and Formtech/Brabham sounds like it's already in trouble over naming issues, so I don't hold out much hope for them, and as for Superfund/Wurz, just where is their money going to come from? Superfund are hardly reliable when it comes to the area of finance after all.

deCrasheris · Post by **deCrasheris** » 07 Jun 2009, 03:58

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75903
Looks like Litespeed is now going to be known as Lotus bringing back another famous Formula 1 marque. They have the support of David Hunt who owns the rights to the name and has some old Lotus personnel on the team but this use of famous F1 names from the past to try to sway the officials to accept their entry is really getting out of hand. Just remember Pacific Team Lotus in 95

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 07 Jun 2009, 04:01

This is all playing into Bernie's hand... he'll have credibility when all of the glory names of Formula One are involved. If FOTA left, they'd be screwed now.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 07 Jun 2009, 07:54

thehemogoblin wrote:This is all playing into Bernie's hand... he'll have credibility when all of the glory names of Formula One are involved. If FOTA left, they'd be screwed now.

Except that the names are artificial. There is nothing "Lotus" about Litespeed. Remember how many cringed when the Pacific team put the Lotus logo and a green stripe (though it looked great) on the PR02? The name exists but the spirit has long since been dead. Really, all these classic names being brought from the dead is quite cringeworthy.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 07 Jun 2009, 08:30

thehemogoblin wrote:This is all playing into Bernie's hand... he'll have credibility when all of the glory names of Formula One are involved. If FOTA left, they'd be screwed now.

Obviously someone, probably Max or Bernie or both, is orchestrating this. But its getting very silly, all these new teams with old names appearing at once.

Rumour has it Dick Dastardly will return soon....

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 07 Jun 2009, 08:46

RejectSteve wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:This is all playing into Bernie's hand... he'll have credibility when all of the glory names of Formula One are involved. If FOTA left, they'd be screwed now.
Except that the names are artificial. There is nothing "Lotus" about Litespeed. Remember how many cringed when the Pacific team put the Lotus logo and a green stripe (though it looked great) on the PR02? The name exists but the spirit has long since been dead. Really, all these classic names being brought from the dead is quite cringeworthy.

There was a definite sarcastic tone to my comment, but there's points to be had on both sides.

Hell, I really don't care what comes of the names. I just hope that nobody ruins my F1.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 07 Jun 2009, 11:32

thehemogoblin wrote:I just hope that nobody ruins my F1.

Exactly. Names are unimportant for the fans, as long as they recognize what's going on at the track as their sport. The danger now is we'll find ourselves with a bunch of names that sound like something we once saw or read about in a book, but not Formula 1. I do understand the concern that F1 in its current guise is unsustainable, and that things need to change. But some agreement, every now and then, would help a lot.

Now, if come next Friday any of the "conditional entry" teams is left out for a zombie Lotus to enter, I will really start doubting the reason and goodwill of people on top.

Overall, I have to say, I am getting pretty fed-up with all this issue. The racing has been so nice lately...

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 07 Jun 2009, 15:56

Yay for zombie teams. I know they have nothing to do with their namesakes from the past, but at least it sounds better than "USF1" or "N.Technology", which would be absolutely ridiculous names for chassis.

Can you imagine "USF1-Cosworth" or "N.Technology-Cosworth"? I can't. Toro Rosso-Ferrari and Force India-Mercedes sound pretty bad already, that's why I still say "Minardi-Ferrari" instead of Toro Rosso-Ferrari.

Also, I laughed pretty hard when people here joked about Lotus making a comeback, and then Litespeed revealed that they were going to be Lotus. :mrgreen:

If anything, all these new teams are great for F1 Rejects, as someone already pointed out! Yay for pre-qualifying! It's the early 90's all over again!

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 07 Jun 2009, 19:10

CarlosFerreira wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:I just hope that nobody ruins my F1.

Exactly. Names are unimportant for the fans, as long as they recognize what's going on at the track as their sport. The danger now is we'll find ourselves with a bunch of names that sound like something we once saw or read about in a book, but not Formula 1. I do understand the concern that F1 in its current guise is unsustainable, and that things need to change. But some agreement, every now and then, would help a lot.

Now, if come next Friday any of the "conditional entry" teams is left out for a zombie Lotus to enter, I will really start doubting the reason and goodwill of people on top.

Overall, I have to say, I am getting pretty fed-up with all this issue. The racing has been so nice lately...

I think they've almost got it to the point where there is consistent passing in F1. Now, just get rid of Catalunya, and, as I ended up promoting in an F1 Rejects podcast some time ago, take the double hairpin off the end of the Hungaroring and replace it with a high-speed right-hander, and I think we've solved all of our problems with processional races.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 07 Jun 2009, 19:58

Add Valencia to the "Get rid" list and overtaking will be improved. Bring back Montreal and add 4 new tracks for Bernie's 20 race calendar and we're there.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 07 Jun 2009, 22:43

Debaser wrote:Add Valencia to the "Get rid" list and overtaking will be improved.

Give Valencia the beneit of the doubt; sometimes you just have a bad race. And while it's not the best way to start off hosting Formula One, last year's European Grand Prix was marked by everyone sorting thmselves out in order of speed by the first corner. Valencia could well prove to be a diamond in the rough now that the new rules are in place and based on the fact that the twenty cars on the grid are closer to one another than the have been in decades.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 08 Jun 2009, 06:55

Captain Hammer wrote:
Debaser wrote:Add Valencia to the "Get rid" list and overtaking will be improved.

Give Valencia the beneit of the doubt; sometimes you just have a bad race. And while it's not the best way to start off hosting Formula One, last year's European Grand Prix was marked by everyone sorting thmselves out in order of speed by the first corner. Valencia could well prove to be a diamond in the rough now that the new rules are in place and based on the fact that the twenty cars on the grid are closer to one another than the have been in decades.

I agree with that. Look at 2000s in general, you may found at least one bad race for almost every circuit. I take examples on Melbourne 2004 and Spa 2007 - because usually races on those circuits are quite interesting.

After this and next year we can rate Valencia track better.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 08 Jun 2009, 08:15

After all, Monaco's just as boring and no-one seems to think it should go.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 08 Jun 2009, 12:06

CarlosFerreira wrote:After all, Monaco's just as boring and no-one seems to think it should go.

Thats because tMonaco won't be taken off the calendar no matter what. Not even Max OR Bernie is crazy enough to even try. They would be lynchedo n the spot.

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 09 Jun 2009, 12:46

But what Monaco lacks in terms of overtaking it can occasionally make up for in drama. The sheer desperation drivers have to resort to in order to pass around there is worth its continuation alone. It is a circuit where the best overtaking opportunity is the braking point after cars exit a curved tunnel at 150mph into blinding daylight. Why would you want to take that away?

Plus with the occasional pile-ups at the starts, the inevitable crashes, engine blow-ups, high attritional rate and the odd results rain-affected races can throw up, it holds a unique position.

Not to mention that the spectacle itself is impressive.

In terms of overtaking you'd have said Turkey has a lot more to offer than Monaco, yet on the evidence of this year, Monaco provided more entertainment, and it was a particularly uneventful Monaco GP I thought.

Yes, it has it's flaws as a modern motor racing venue, but removing it is unthinkable. Mind you, I thought that about Montreal, Suzuka and Silverstone so it's probably doomed.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 09 Jun 2009, 14:15

jackanderton wrote:In terms of overtaking you'd have said Turkey has a lot more to offer than Monaco, yet on the evidence of this year, Monaco provided more entertainment, and it was a particularly uneventful Monaco GP I thought.

Agreed there. It's mad to race in Monaco, but I'm always looking forward to the race there...

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 10 Jun 2009, 16:34

Can we talk about new teams for 2010 again now?

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 10 Jun 2009, 17:13

All I can say is the new Lola car better be good.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 10 Jun 2009, 20:18

Waris wrote:Can we talk about new teams for 2010 again now?

Meh. We have so much more important things to discuss!

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 10 Jun 2009, 21:58

thehemogoblin wrote:
Waris wrote:Can we talk about new teams for 2010 again now?

Meh. We have so much more important things to discuss!

I suppose we could take bets on who's going to be confirmed on Friday. I'm betting on 10 well-known teams, plus Prodrive and US-F1-GP, or whatever is their name. Maybe Campus as well, could happen.

Any thoughts?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 10 Jun 2009, 22:19

I reckon we'll have the 10 usual suspects, plus USF1, and either Lola, Prodrive or Campos.

homerbhoy · Post by **homerbhoy** » 10 Jun 2009, 22:24

Remeber someone will need to buy STR as in 2010 no customer cars are allowed so could be 4 new names on 2010

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 11 Jun 2009, 00:14

STR is upgrading its Faenza facility with the intention of being a constructor in 2010 (if it's good enough for Minardi...)

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 11 Jun 2009, 08:15

Alianora La Canta wrote:STR is upgrading its Faenza facility with the intention of being a constructor in 2010 (if it's good enough for Minardi...)

And here they come, sliding down the order. Also, back to Cosworth engines?

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 11 Jun 2009, 10:42

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/06/11/group-lotus-plc-not-behind-f1-plans-litespeed/

Group Lotus is gonna fight to protect its name!

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 11 Jun 2009, 13:22

I think it depends on what the talks FOTA and Max have today will bring. If they can't come to an agreement, it is very well possible that Renault, Toyota, Ferrari, and maybe even McLaren will leave the sport. In that case, we could see more of the new teams, but I can't help but think that except Lola, Prodrive and USF1, they aren't very serious. Does anyone know if it's already certain that 13 teams will be on the grid, so that if anyone pulls out another new team will be added, or can teams be rejected so it is theoretically possible to have less than 12 teams?

By the way, there have been rumours going on that Flavio Briatore was going to buy Renault, although he has denied those.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 11 Jun 2009, 13:28

I think part of conditional entry of FOTA teams is that FIA has to choose all eight (not counting Williams and Force India who have entered unconditionally) or none.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 11 Jun 2009, 13:33

Waris wrote:I think it depends on what the talks FOTA and Max have today will bring. If they can't come to an agreement, it is very well possible that Renault, Toyota, Ferrari, and maybe even McLaren will leave the sport. In that case, we could see more of the new teams, but I can't help but think that except Lola, Prodrive and USF1, they aren't very serious. Does anyone know if it's already certain that 13 teams will be on the grid, so that if anyone pulls out another new team will be added, or can teams be rejected so it is theoretically possible to have less than 12 teams?

By the way, there have been rumours going on that Flavio Briatore was going to buy Renault, although he has denied those.

Highly unlikely that McLaren and Ferrari will leave. As for Renault and Toyota, if wouldn't surprise me too much to see either or both of them leave. Toyota's main commercial competiters aren't involved in the sport and they've spent stupid amounts of money for basically no success. Renault is receiving a huge bail-out sum from the French government, and is making cuts throughout the business (like the Dacia plant in Romania) so spending money on a programme that hasn't won consistently since 2006 is hard to justify.
USF1 is probably a given, since they do seem to be the most serious entry. Lola and Prodrive are pretty much on a par, but it would be very interesting to see someone like Campos or Litespeed get an entry. Shame Carlin dropped out of the running, because with the right funding they would have been definite front-runners.
Tomorrow will be very interesting...

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 11 Jun 2009, 15:29

I have heard through a contact at work that Lola have been told they are in, but I have no idea about the veracity of this information. They are, I suppose, one of the likelier candidates.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 11 Jun 2009, 15:59

It's 3 from 4 I think of Prodrive, Lola, Campos and USF1. With questions over BMW and Toyota for next year there could be space for a couple more. Lola looks like the strongest case, with not much to choose between the other three.

minrdi · Post by **minrdi** » 11 Jun 2009, 23:16

BAD NEWS FOR LOTUS & SUPERFUND ENTRIES... (taken from en/f1/live.com website)

The Lotus Cars company has followed the Brabham family in distancing itself and threatening legal action against a proposed Formula One team bearing its name.

It emerged last week that 'Team Lotus' could return to the grid next year in the form of British F3 team Litespeed, who said they were granted permission to use the name from rights holder David Hunt.

Hunt, who bought Team Lotus from the bankrupt outfit at the end of 1994, is the brother of the 1976 world champion James Hunt.

However, Lotus Cars Limited, the ongoing sports car maker that is based on the company founded by Colin Chapman in 1952, clarified on Wednesday that it is in no way associated with the prospective 2010 team.

"Group Lotus plc will take all necessary steps to protect its name, reputation and brand image," it said in a statement.

There was more bad news for a 2010 F1 hopeful on Wednesday, when it was rumoured that Superfund, the Austrian investment company, may have been struck off the FIA's list due to the emergence of an unpaid debt relating to motor racing of nearly 4 million Euros.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 11 Jun 2009, 23:39

I'm tipping Campos, US-F1, Prodrive and Lola to take the three and one to possibly take over Toro Rosso. All are pretty big and have experience. Epsilon Euskadi are an outside chance as they already have facilities and management has supposedly secured four years' worth of funding.

noisebox wrote:It's 3 from 4 I think of Prodrive, Lola, Campos and USF1. With questions over BMW and Toyota for next year there could be space for a couple more. Lola looks like the strongest case, with not much to choose between the other three.

I'd say Renault are more likely to depart before those two. They've already suggested to suppliers that they may be going. The rumours of BMW's departure seem to relate to the F1.09's very poor perofrmance, but they've had a turnaround in Istanbul. As for Toyota, they've said they "don't want" to go if the can help it.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 12 Jun 2009, 01:05

I'm thinking USF1, Lola, and Prodrive will make it. Torro Rosso are in trouble with the current customer car rules. Red Bull might not want to keep the team. Campos, or Epsilon might takeover Torro Rosso. Of course, I'm hoping Superfund makes it in.

As for if a team will leave, it has to be Renault. They aren't getting the results and have quit on the sport once already. Alonso will be setting his sights on other teams. And he's the only guy giving them results. Renault gone by 2011?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 12 Jun 2009, 01:27

I doubt Superfund will make it. Overnight it has come to be known they they're in a spot of bother over an unpaid debt of several million Euros. To who, I have no idea, only that they are. I always felt theirs was more of a publicity stunt than anything else.

This is how I rate their chances and why:

Campos Meta 1 - good because they've got experience in GP2 and is owned by a former driver.
Prodrive F1 - good because Dave Richards has expeirence with managing a team, knows what it takes to be successful and they held the 2008 entry.
Team US-F1 - good because they've been in development for years and Windsor and Anderson seem to know what they're doing.
Lola Cars - okay because they've been in motorsport for a long time, but everyone remembers 1997.
Litespeed-Lotus - okay because while they have motorsport experience, making the jump from British F3 to Formula One is a huge step.
Epsilon Euskadi - okay because they have facilities, experience and supposedly funding, but they apparently can't sit still long enough to commit to one project.
Brabham/Fomtech - poor because while they might have Super Aguri's assets, they were Super Aguri's assets and useless with the new technical regualtions.
N. Technology - poor because there's been nothing to indicate that they have anything to work with at all.
Team Superfund - poor because they have no expeirence, no facilities and their last attempt at starting a formula series of their own ended in disaster.
March Racing Organiation - poor, because there's been even less word from them than there has been from Brabham/Formtech.