Grand Prix Rejects

If I was a team principal I'd rather have Senna or Kovalainen than Gros-nado in my team.

CarlosFerreira wrote:If I was a team principal I'd rather have Senna or Kovalainen than Gros-nado in my team.

I see... Even with the chance of 'Gros-nado' springing the odd surprise result here and there? Rather than the average 'Se-lainen' results which also bring some DNF's here and there?

DanielPT wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:If I was a team principal I'd rather have Senna or Kovalainen than Gros-nado in my team.

I see... Even with the chance of 'Gros-nado' springing the odd surprise result here and there? Rather than the average 'Se-lainen' results which also bring some DNF's here and there?

Do you know how much a pound of carbon fibre retails for?

CarlosFerreira wrote:

DanielPT wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:If I was a team principal I'd rather have Senna or Kovalainen than Gros-nado in my team.

I see... Even with the chance of 'Gros-nado' springing the odd surprise result here and there? Rather than the average 'Se-lainen' results which also bring some DNF's here and there?

Do you know how much a pound of carbon fibre retails for?

A few pounds cost surely less than what a team earns with a win and a sponsorship from PDVSA!

CarlosFerreira wrote:

DanielPT wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:If I was a team principal I'd rather have Senna or Kovalainen than Gros-nado in my team.

I see... Even with the chance of 'Gros-nado' springing the odd surprise result here and there? Rather than the average 'Se-lainen' results which also bring some DNF's here and there?

Do you know how much a pound of carbon fibre retails for?

Well, Maldonado does bring the best part of 50 million euros a year thanks to the seemingly limitless pockets of PDVSA... not that it matters much as about 90% of it goes to rebuilding the car when he inevitably plants it into the nearest wall

DanielPT wrote:A few pounds cost surely less than what a team earns with a win and a sponsorship from PDVSA!

Wizzie wrote:Well, Maldonado does bring the best part of 50 million euros a year thanks to the seemingly limitless pockets of PDVSA... not that it matters much as about 90% of it goes to rebuilding the car when he inevitably plants it into the nearest wall

Touche, gentlemen. Touche.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

eurobrun wrote:My logic behind my statement is that I would rather a slightly but not massively slower driver that brings money. Assuming the team needs extra cash though.

Which is why I didn't counter it. As shite as Senna is, he has money and di Resta doesn't.

On the other hand, it could be argued that Bruno brought sponsorship cash but cost the team money in the WCC due to their relatively low standing (they finished in 8th place at the end of the season).
Now, would Di Resta have made up the difference in points to push Williams far enough up in the WCC to offset the cost of hiring him? It is debatable, and I am by no means certain that it would be the case, but it is possible that he could have done so, so the situation isn't necessarily quite that clean cut (moving one place up in the WCC is generally thought to yield about $10 million extra in revenue from FOM, which would be comparable to the $12-14 million that Bruno is thought to be able to raise in sponsorship).

In my opinion, Schumacher's bad luck this year is caused by Enoch's Curse. Not only due to age or some other s**t.

Turn 8 at Istanbul Park is hideously overrated.

East Londoner wrote:Turn 8 at Istanbul Park is hideously overrated.

It is, I prefer Eau Rouge, Pouhon, the Ascari chicane, the 130R and Maggots/Becketts/Chapel all over Turn 8. First at all, Turn 8 needs a name, and second, it's only that special, because it's the only really fascinating corner Tilke has designed so far. Turn one in Austin is good, but we have this in Spielberg also.

East Londoner wrote:Turn 8 at Istanbul Park is hideously overrated.

Yeah, probably. It was sorta neat at first, but got old very fast.

A1 Ring is a better name than Red Bull Ring.

darkapprentice77 wrote:A1 Ring is a better name than Red Bull Ring.

Meh. They're both just [sponsor] Ring, and neither one sounds particularly melodic or anything.

FMecha wrote:In my opinion, Schumacher's bad luck this year is caused by Enoch's Curse. Not only due to age or some other s**t.

Getting your ass handed to you by your teammate has nothing to do with luck. Especially when the car is penned with your needs in mind and your teammate epitomizes what it means to be competent but unspectacular.

The 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix is still the best Grand Prix of the 21st Century. The 2012 race would have beaten it if Hulkenberg had won...

The 2005 Japanese Grand Prix was a distinctly average grand prix in retrospect.

East Londoner wrote:The 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix is still the best Grand Prix of the 21st Century. The 2012 race would have beaten it if Hulkenberg had won...

Okay, NO. You do not beat the 2007 Canadian Grand Prix because of the reject glory -- especially from SOOPA AGURI, or the 2004 US GP, when HWNSNBM scored 8th in the Minadi!

The 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix was an entertaining race because of how much Vitaly Petrov trolled Alonso and Webber with Renault's straight line speed.

This makes me want the 2012 F1 season review DVD. Now.

Why on Earth did Caterham sign Charles Pic? Just, why?

Phoenix wrote:Why on Earth did Caterham sign Charles Pic? Just, why?

Because he brings sponsorship... ish and also is quite decent. More decent than Glock, I might add.

JeremyMcClean wrote:

Phoenix wrote:Why on Earth did Caterham sign Charles Pic? Just, why?

Because he brings sponsorship... ish and also is quite decent. More decent than Glock, I might add.

No! He's just slightly less mediocre than d'Ambrosio, which was only slightly less mediocre than di Grassi! And to think that perhaps the sacrificed one will be Kovalainen...

Phoenix wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:

Phoenix wrote:Why on Earth did Caterham sign Charles Pic? Just, why?

Because he brings sponsorship... ish and also is quite decent. More decent than Glock, I might add.

No! He's just slightly less mediocre than d'Ambrosio, which was only slightly less mediocre than di Grassi! And to think that perhaps the sacrificed one will be Kovalainen...

Which is a good thing since Kovalainen never really was a great driver.

JeremyMcClean wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

JeremyMcClean wrote:
No! He's just slightly less mediocre than d'Ambrosio, which was only slightly less mediocre than di Grassi! And to think that perhaps the sacrificed one will be Kovalainen...

Which is a good thing since Kovalainen never really was a great driver.

But at least he has the experience to help develop the car. Seriously, Caterham can't aspire to find anyone better at the moment...

If anything, Petrov had the better of Kovalainen all year long. The sad part is that Caterham looks likely to keep Kovalainen and ditch Petrov even though I think it's fairly obvious that Petrov's willingness to fight for 10th in the Constructor's championship is more valuable for the team than Kovalainen's dejected emo kid attitude.

Cynon wrote:If anything, Petrov had the better of Kovalainen all year long. The sad part is that Caterham looks likely to keep Kovalainen and ditch Petrov even though I think it's fairly obvious that Petrov's willingness to fight for 10th in the Constructor's championship is more valuable for the team than Kovalainen's dejected emo kid attitude.

Oh, poor Heikki. Throughout 2010 and 2011 he was lauded because of his never-surrender attitude, and now he's being criticized for being disinterested. And it's not really true Petrov had the better of Kovalainen all year long; it was rather at the last races.

Seriously, what Caterham needs is continuity if they want to have a chance to move forward. They can't really aspire to have a better driver pairing. Both drivers have had their fair share of F1 seasons, signing a sophomore doesn't seem all that clever, and Pic doesn't bring that much in terms of cash.

Button is talking too much about being "the number 1" of McLaren and will be demolished by Perez in next year.

Dj_bereta wrote:Button is talking too much about being "the number 1" of McLaren and will be demolished by Perez in next year.

A part of me says "Shine on, ya crazy diamond," and the other part says "Oh god, you're going to be terribly wrong."

I want Perez to crush Button and prove the critics wrong, but I fear that Perez will be soundly defeated by Button, given his current form. I still have hopes, though.

Phoenix wrote:

Cynon wrote:If anything, Petrov had the better of Kovalainen all year long. The sad part is that Caterham looks likely to keep Kovalainen and ditch Petrov even though I think it's fairly obvious that Petrov's willingness to fight for 10th in the Constructor's championship is more valuable for the team than Kovalainen's dejected emo kid attitude.

Oh, poor Heikki. Throughout 2010 and 2011 he was lauded because of his never-surrender attitude, and now he's being criticized for being disinterested. And it's not really true Petrov had the better of Kovalainen all year long; it was rather at the last races.

Because that kind of never-surrender attitude is what made Kovalainen and Caterham a potent combination and why the team probably gelled around him. Kovalainen's willingness to fight despite hopeless odds for points is what they needed. When the team needed Kovalainen to step up and take the fight to the rest of the field, he failed to do so and bitched to the press, whereas Petrov stepped up his game to be the driver Caterham needed.

Phoenix wrote:Seriously, what Caterham needs is continuity if they want to have a chance to move forward. They can't really aspire to have a better driver pairing. Both drivers have had their fair share of F1 seasons, signing a sophomore doesn't seem all that clever, and Pic doesn't bring that much in terms of cash.

They need continuity, absolutely, and with Kovalainen's lack of interest, Petrov is the driver that they need. They don't need a Timo Glock-type driver who is only going to give it 100% when the main team he is fighting against is having a bad week -- they need a driver that will take full advantage of circumstances as they come, and that can happen at any point in the race. Just like Petrov did in Brazil or what Liuzzi was able to do for HRT in Canada last year.

The WCC is more important and a better indicator of the year than the WDC.

I will miss Norbert Haug.

Jocke1 wrote:I will miss Norbert Haug.

While I will lose brownie points with Ferrarist, I agree. Sure, some of his management choices are questionable, but he did score quite a number of successes and made Mercedes-Benz actually appear on the international motorsport stage again in a way. Furthermore, on a less relevant note, he is a thousand times more charismatic than Dr. Ullrich (the original Dr. Twat and presumably inspiration for Helmut Marko).

Wallio wrote:The WCC is more important and a better indicator of the year than the WDC.

As it suggests the overall quality of the car. Otherwise you end up with Ayrton Senna and Johnny Dumfries around. Dumfries was almost reject material and only saved himself with a 6th in the last race at Australia before returning to his life of nobility as the "Earl of Dumfries".

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

Wallio wrote:The WCC is more important and a better indicator of the year than the WDC.

As it suggests the overall quality of the car. Otherwise you end up with Ayrton Senna and Johnny Dumfries around. Dumfries was almost reject material and only saved himself with a 6th in the last race at Australia before returning to his life of nobility as the "Earl of Dumfries".

Not exactly... he did do some endurance racing, being a part of the winning Silk Cut Jaguar team in 1988.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

Wallio wrote:The WCC is more important and a better indicator of the year than the WDC.

As it suggests the overall quality of the car. Otherwise you end up with Ayrton Senna and Johnny Dumfries around. Dumfries was almost reject material and only saved himself with a 6th in the last race at Australia before returning to his life of nobility as the "Earl of Dumfries".

Not exactly... he did do some endurance racing, being a part of the winning Silk Cut Jaguar team in 1988.

Well, but I consider that the land of older drivers (Gil de Ferran, Paul Tracy, and Mario Andretti for examples finishing their careers in these ranks) and gentlemen drivers and nobility is pretty gentlemanly if you get my drift.

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

Wallio wrote:The WCC is more important and a better indicator of the year than the WDC.

As it suggests the overall quality of the car. Otherwise you end up with Ayrton Senna and Johnny Dumfries around. Dumfries was almost reject material and only saved himself with a 6th in the last race at Australia before returning to his life of nobility as the "Earl of Dumfries".

Mind you, that was intentional on the part of Lotus (Senna having reportedly vetoed the attempts by the team to hire Derek Warwick on the grounds that Warwick would be too competitive and would divert resources away from him), with the team effectively wanting a large disparity between the two drivers.

Overall, there is a certain truth in what you say about the WCC often being an important indicator of competitiveness, although there are some occasions when there is a bit of a mismatch (particularly within the midfield, where fluke results can give a somewhat misleading picture of competitiveness).

mario wrote:

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

Wallio wrote:The WCC is more important and a better indicator of the year than the WDC.

As it suggests the overall quality of the car. Otherwise you end up with Ayrton Senna and Johnny Dumfries around. Dumfries was almost reject material and only saved himself with a 6th in the last race at Australia before returning to his life of nobility as the "Earl of Dumfries".

Mind you, that was intentional on the part of Lotus (Senna having reportedly vetoed the attempts by the team to hire Derek Warwick on the grounds that Warwick would be too competitive and would divert resources away from him), with the team effectively wanting a large disparity between the two drivers.

Overall, there is a certain truth in what you say about the WCC often being an important indicator of competitiveness, although there are some occasions when there is a bit of a mismatch (particularly within the midfield, where fluke results can give a somewhat misleading picture of competitiveness).

And that's why as soon as 1986 ended, Satoru Nakajima replaced the Earl of Dumfries and the Earl did what wealthy gentlemen who love racing do; racing sports cars.

I guess it belongs into this thread: I don't miss tobacco sponsorship at all.

pi314159 wrote:I guess it belongs into this thread: I don't miss tobacco sponsorship at all.

Neither do I.

But this WILLbe unpopular: I am more of a fan of Bruno Senna now than I was of Ayrton before he joined Williams in 1994.

dr-baker wrote:

pi314159 wrote:I guess it belongs into this thread: I don't miss tobacco sponsorship at all.

Neither do I.

But this WILLbe unpopular: I am more of a fan of Bruno Senna now than I was of Ayrton before he joined Williams in 1994.

Why? How?

dr-baker wrote:

pi314159 wrote:I guess it belongs into this thread: I don't miss tobacco sponsorship at all.

Neither do I.

But this WILLbe unpopular: I am more of a fan of Bruno Senna now than I was of Ayrton before he joined Williams in 1994.

senna was to big headed and cheated just so he could have an advantage( see suzuka 1990)

dr-baker wrote:

pi314159 wrote:I guess it belongs into this thread: I don't miss tobacco sponsorship at all.

Neither do I.

But this WILLbe unpopular: I am more of a fan of Bruno Senna now than I was of Ayrton before he joined Williams in 1994.

That applies to me as well. Although that is because I wasn't alive in 1994, so I couldn't support Ayrton. Personally I think that Bruno is one of the least talented drivers in F1.

400th post!!! PARTY, PARTY, PARTY!!!