Grand Prix Rejects

Why do people make fun of NASCAR for only having left turns, yet no one seems to make fun of drag racing which has no turns at all?

darkapprentice77 wrote:Why do people make fun of NASCAR for only having left turns, yet no one seems to make fun of drag racing which has no turns at all?

It gets mentioned a lot more in mainstream media, so more people think about it.

darkapprentice77 wrote:Why do people make fun of NASCAR for only having left turns, yet no one seems to make fun of drag racing which has no turns at all?

At least drag racing has good sounding engines.

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

darkapprentice77 wrote:Why do people make fun of NASCAR for only having left turns, yet no one seems to make fun of drag racing which has no turns at all?

It gets mentioned a lot more in mainstream media, so more people think about it.

Kind of dont see the point in drag racing. It's all about who's got the better car.

pasta_maldonado wrote:

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

darkapprentice77 wrote:Why do people make fun of NASCAR for only having left turns, yet no one seems to make fun of drag racing which has no turns at all?

It gets mentioned a lot more in mainstream media, so more people think about it.

Kind of dont see the point in drag racing. It's all about who's got the better car.

I'd like to see you say that to Danny Ongais' face.

shinji wrote:

pasta_maldonado wrote:

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:It gets mentioned a lot more in mainstream media, so more people think about it.

Kind of dont see the point in drag racing. It's all about who's got the better car.

I'd like to see you say that to Danny Ongais' face.

It's lucky I'll never get to meet Ongais then

There seems to be a bit of a debate at the moment about whether IndyCar should adopt a Nation Cup (i.e a separate championship, showing which nationalities, represented by drivers, are most successful in any given year). But this being F1 rejects, we are more interested in F1 & the nationalities that would occupy the bottom of any such table. Therefore if a ‘Nations Cup’ was to be done, which incorporated every F1 season since 1950. Which nationality would finish bottom of such a table?

I’m thinking maybe Czech Republic (although admittedly I haven’t looked into this very much at the moment). Since according to Wikipedia, Tomas Enge (I believe the only Czech F1 driver to have competed in a race) best ever result was 12th at Monza 2001. Whereas Malaysia would finish just above Czech Republic on our theoretical ‘Nations Cup’ table, since Alex Yoong (I believe the only Malaysian F1 driver to have competed in a race so far), finished 7th at Australia 2002. Thus beating Enge’s best result.

So anyone know of a nation that might finish below Czech Republic on our theoretical ‘Nations Cup’ table for F1?

Hungary (best result 8th by HWNSNBM) and Liechtenstein (best result 9th by Rikky von Opel) are between Malaysia and Czech Republic. But Czech Republlic is still last.

ibsey wrote:There seems to be a bit of a debate at the moment about whether IndyCar should adopt a Nation Cup (i.e a separate championship, showing which nationalities, represented by drivers, are most successful in any given year). But this being F1 rejects, we are more interested in F1 & the nationalities that would occupy the bottom of any such table. Therefore if a ‘Nations Cup’ was to be done, which incorporated every F1 season since 1950. Which nationality would finish bottom of such a table?

I’m thinking maybe Czech Republic (although admittedly I haven’t looked into this very much at the moment). Since according to Wikipedia, Tomas Enge (I believe the only Czech F1 driver to have competed in a race) best ever result was 12th at Monza 2001. Whereas Malaysia would finish just above Czech Republic on our theoretical ‘Nations Cup’ table, since Alex Yoong (I believe the only Malaysian F1 driver to have competed in a race so far), finished 7th at Australia 2002. Thus beating Enge’s best result.

So anyone know of a nation that might finish below Czech Republic on our theoretical ‘Nations Cup’ table for F1?

East Germany would come ahead of Czech Republic due to matching Enge's best 2 results and having a third finish.

Pretty sure Czech Republic is the worst, with Enge's 12th the best result.

Liechtenstein with Rikky van Opel are the second worst I think, his best result was 9th.

Then Hungary - need I say more?

Uruguay had two 6th places when that wasn't a points-paying position, Oscar Gonzalez and Alberto Uria.

Other poorly-performing countries include Denmark, for whom Jan Magnussen's 1 point is the only one out of 3 drivers, Malaysia, with Yoong's legendary 7th - India with only Narain's Indy debacle getting them on the board, and Portugal, for whom Monteiro's fluky 3rd adds only to Pedro Lamy's 1 point from 1995.

1. Czech - best result of 12th
2. Liechtenstein - best result of 9th
3. Hungary - best result of 8th
4. Malaysia - best result of 7th
5. Denmark - best result of 6th
6. Uruguay - best result of 6th (x2)
7. India - best result of 4th (but not legitimate, next best of 11th)
8. Portugal - best result of 3rd (next best of 6th)

Has any driver, over the course of a Championship season, ever started on every row on the grid at least once?

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Has any driver, over the course of a Championship season, ever started on every row on the grid at least once?

Mercedes made a good effort last year.

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Has any driver, over the course of a Championship season, ever started on every row on the grid at least once?

Mercedes made a good effort last year.

1st row: China
2nd row: Malaysia
3rd row: Bahrain
4th row: Barcelona
5th row: Canada
6th row: Europe
7th row: United Kingdom
8th row: Japan
9th row: Germany

Aside from the eternal backmarker rows, they had everything there was to had.

How did Mark Winterbottom get the nickname "Frosty"?

East Londoner wrote:How did Mark Winterbottom get the nickname "Frosty"?

From memory, it was from back in his Orrcon Larkham days where it stemmed from his last name and the fact he was a fairly cool and collected customer back then. Once he started being a championship contender at FPR however, that iceman personality slowly but surely eroded away, which eventually led to that god-awful showing at Pukekohe last time out

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Has any driver, over the course of a Championship season, ever started on every row on the grid at least once?

On a quick search didn't find any. Lewis Hamilton was very near in 2009, but he never was on the 4th row.

Last year, the only rows where Pastor never started were 9th and 10th.

The grid penalties may have made it easier to achieve.

Other than the unfortunate Hyla Breese, has a driver in any championship ever scored minus points?

darkapprentice77 wrote:Other than the unfortunate Hyla Breese, has a driver in any championship ever scored minus points?

In the 2011 British Formula Three season, Yann Cunha scored -36 points, having illegally tested in Spa during the season (British F3 doesn't allow drivers to test on its tracks).

darkapprentice77 wrote:Other than the unfortunate Hyla Breese, has a driver in any championship ever scored minus points?

Paul Romano in V8 Supercars in 2002
Carl Long in NASCAR 2009 (After one of the most bullshit technical violations ever)

Now here's something rejectful:
For 2013, DTM has introduced the 'lap time penalty'. When you leave the circuit too often, you must drive one second slower than the lap before the offense. If you do it again, two seconds, again makes four seconds, fourth time is a stop-go-penalty.
Under yellow flags, you must drive half a second slower than your 'reference lap'. If not, the same lap time penalties apply.

That's stupid. Really.

mediocre wrote:Now here's something rejectful:
For 2013, DTM has introduced the 'lap time penalty'. When you leave the circuit too often, you must drive one second slower than the lap before the offense. If you do it again, two seconds, again makes four seconds, fourth time is a stop-go-penalty.
Under yellow flags, you must drive half a second slower than your 'reference lap'. If not, the same lap time penalties apply.

That's stupid. Really.

What. Why not just add a couple seconds to the time post-race? That would actually be sensible.

mediocre wrote:Now here's something rejectful:
For 2013, DTM has introduced the 'lap time penalty'. When you leave the circuit too often, you must drive one second slower than the lap before the offense. If you do it again, two seconds, again makes four seconds, fourth time is a stop-go-penalty.
Under yellow flags, you must drive half a second slower than your 'reference lap'. If not, the same lap time penalties apply.

That's stupid. Really.

I really hope Bernie isnt made aware of it.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

mediocre wrote:Now here's something rejectful:
For 2013, DTM has introduced the 'lap time penalty'. When you leave the circuit too often, you must drive one second slower than the lap before the offense. If you do it again, two seconds, again makes four seconds, fourth time is a stop-go-penalty.
Under yellow flags, you must drive half a second slower than your 'reference lap'. If not, the same lap time penalties apply.

That's stupid. Really.

What. Why not just add a couple seconds to the time post-race? That would actually be sensible.

Either that or, if race control feel that a driver is cutting the track excessively, imposing a drive through penalty, which is, IIRC, the standard practise in most racing series. OK, the yellow flag system is, I believe, similar to what is used in F1 (where the drivers are now supposed to drive to a target time through a yellow flag zone to ensure that they are going more slowly), but overall it sounds like a pretty clumsy was of imposing a penalty.

I have seen FR3.5 race in Spain on eurosport and quite frankly Felix da Costa disappointed me. From the 'big 3', he was clearly the slowest and even bad set-up doesn't completely excuses it. What I do ponder is if Da Costa keeps failing to obtain big results consistently, like he has been so far, that he might well go from Red Bull biggest prospect driver in years to being dumped from the team academy altogether.

DanielPT wrote:I have seen FR3.5 race in Spain on eurosport and quite frankly Felix da Costa disappointed me. From the 'big 3', he was clearly the slowest and even bad set-up doesn't completely excuses it. What I do ponder is if Da Costa keeps failing to obtain big results consistently, like he has been so far, that he might well go from Red Bull biggest prospect driver in years to being dumped from the team academy altogether.

Which is peculiar given that da Costa was one of the most dominant drivers at the end of the 2012 season and the performance that he put in during the first round in Monza (he was in the top three, IIRC, in the first race before a tyre blowout caused him to retire and won the second race fairly comfortably). I guess that we'll have to see how he performs in the next race in Monaco as it may just be a one off slump in form (peculiarly, it does seem that he hasn't really done that well in Spain during his career - his best result in F3 and GP3 was a single 6th place).

Maria de Villota
Was a Formula 1 test Pilota
She could have taken pole at Cota
She was tougher than Jake la Motta

mario wrote:

DanielPT wrote:I have seen FR3.5 race in Spain on eurosport and quite frankly Felix da Costa disappointed me. From the 'big 3', he was clearly the slowest and even bad set-up doesn't completely excuses it. What I do ponder is if Da Costa keeps failing to obtain big results consistently, like he has been so far, that he might well go from Red Bull biggest prospect driver in years to being dumped from the team academy altogether.

Which is peculiar given that da Costa was one of the most dominant drivers at the end of the 2012 season and the performance that he put in during the first round in Monza (he was in the top three, IIRC, in the first race before a tyre blowout caused him to retire and won the second race fairly comfortably). I guess that we'll have to see how he performs in the next race in Monaco as it may just be a one off slump in form (peculiarly, it does seem that he hasn't really done that well in Spain during his career - his best result in F3 and GP3 was a single 6th place).

On current form, I feel justified in the debate I had with other members in chat where I said that I wasn't convinced that AFDC would walk FR3.5 and become Red Bull's next Vettel. His performances in FR3.5 last season came in a situation where he did not have to cope with expectation that he would (or could) win the title. He's good, but I am yet to be convinced he's got what it takes to be a great driver.

What makes a circuit "good" for one team or "bad" for another? I ask this after finding out after Bahrain that the circuit "was one of Mercedes' lesser tracks" and that the Circuit de Catalunya is a track "tailor-made for Red Bull." Are there other tracks that give advantages/disadvantages to teams that I'm just simply not aware of?

Rocks with Salt wrote:What makes a circuit "good" for one team or "bad" for another? I ask this after finding out after Bahrain that the circuit "was one of Mercedes' lesser tracks" and that the Circuit de Catalunya is a track "tailor-made for Red Bull." Are there other tracks that give advantages/disadvantages to teams that I'm just simply not aware of?

In the case of Bahrain, that was cited as one of Mercedes's weaker tracks due to the high tyre temperatures, which were expected to exacerbate their problems with thermal degradation of the tyres, and the fact that the circuit is rear traction limited due to the way that the drivers tend to use the throttle around much of the track (again, an issue that would be greater for Mercedes due to their higher tyre wear). In the case of Barcelona, it is expected that the preponderance of medium speed corners would favour Red Bull because their downforce advantage, particularly on partial throttle (where it looks like their exhaust system seems to work fairly well), would be more pronounced here.
As for other venues which tend to favour a particular team, traditionally McLaren were fairly strong in the Hungarian GP because it tended to favour their relatively good front end mechanical grip, whilst Red Bull have, with the exception of 2011, tended to struggle at Monza due to the relatively high drag nature of their car and their tendency for shorter gear ratios (with the number of gear ratios limited for a season, Red Bull have probably accepted the best compromise for most tracks but possibly ended up with a slightly too short 7th gear ratio for Monza).

Does anyone know in detail why Elio de Angelis was disqualified from the 1981 British Grand Prix?

I was watching the race on YouTube when de Angelis was black flagged, with Murray Walker not having a clue as to why. I've read that it was because Chapman had built a chassis from parts of an older chassis, but I was wondering what exactly did he do and why?

pasta_maldonado wrote:Does anyone know in detail why Elio de Angelis was disqualified from the 1981 British Grand Prix?

I was watching the race on YouTube when de Angelis was black flagged, with Murray Walker not having a clue as to why. I've read that it was because Chapman had built a chassis from parts of an older chassis, but I was wondering what exactly did he do and why?

Lotus had intended to enter the 88 for that particular race but, with FISA adamant that the car was illegal, Lotus were forced to fall back on the 87 instead. The indication is that Lotus built up one of their spare 87's using components from the 88, so it looks like De Angelis might have been black flagged because of the parts from the 88 that were on his car.

mario wrote:

pasta_maldonado wrote:Does anyone know in detail why Elio de Angelis was disqualified from the 1981 British Grand Prix?

I was watching the race on YouTube when de Angelis was black flagged, with Murray Walker not having a clue as to why. I've read that it was because Chapman had built a chassis from parts of an older chassis, but I was wondering what exactly did he do and why?

Lotus had intended to enter the 88 for that particular race but, with FISA adamant that the car was illegal, Lotus were forced to fall back on the 87 instead. The indication is that Lotus built up one of their spare 87's using components from the 88, so it looks like De Angelis might have been black flagged because of the parts from the 88 that were on his car.

He was apparently black-flagged for failing to slow down for a yellow flag...

tommykl wrote:

mario wrote:

pasta_maldonado wrote:Does anyone know in detail why Elio de Angelis was disqualified from the 1981 British Grand Prix?

I was watching the race on YouTube when de Angelis was black flagged, with Murray Walker not having a clue as to why. I've read that it was because Chapman had built a chassis from parts of an older chassis, but I was wondering what exactly did he do and why?

Lotus had intended to enter the 88 for that particular race but, with FISA adamant that the car was illegal, Lotus were forced to fall back on the 87 instead. The indication is that Lotus built up one of their spare 87's using components from the 88, so it looks like De Angelis might have been black flagged because of the parts from the 88 that were on his car.

He was apparently black-flagged for failing to slow down for a yellow flag...

I stand corrected - I thought that it might have been a technical infringement, but it appears that I was wrong.

I also thought it was a technicle infringement due to the twin chassis on the Lotus 88

Re; Elio de Angelis DSQ from the 1981 British Grand Prix. I have found this on the matter;

Farce followed. Deemed legal on the Wednesday, the two 88Bs were allowed to practice on the Thursday, then the FIA, the sport’s governing body overruled the race organisers – the RAC MSA – and decided the car was illegal after all. This left Lotus with next to no time to convert the cars back to a previous (legal) specification, and the drivers even less time to qualify. Elio de Angelis managed to make the cut with a solitary flier, while Nigel Mansell failed to qualify for his home Grand Prix, a race he would go on to win four times.

Source: The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Formula One; Bruce Jones (Editor of Autosport Magazine). Page 242 & 243


You might have already since this from another thread, but just in case you haven’t…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn45t9V4S7k

(One you tube comment stated… "The lotus 86/88 chassis was banned for the last time on friday, then that black flag... in my opinion, someone there was trying to send a "message" to colin chapman")

Although I am very keen to I haven’t yet had a chance to look into the matter any further than this.

What would happen if you put a hard tyre the front-left wheel, a soft tyre on the front-right, an intermediate on the rear-left and a wet tyre on the rear-right?

darkapprentice77 wrote:What would happen if you put a hard tyre the front-left wheel, a soft tyre on the front-right, an intermediate on the rear-left and a wet tyre on the rear-right?

You'd get the sack

Why did we lose those leaves crown thing [don't know its name in english! ]?
The podium cerimony looked much more epic and special!


also, it would be awesome to have the winners' wife/girlfriend up there too

darkapprentice77 wrote:What would happen if you put a hard tyre the front-left wheel, a soft tyre on the front-right, an intermediate on the rear-left and a wet tyre on the rear-right?

You'd cause the TV caption computer to have a breakdown.

lgaquino wrote:Why did we lose those leaves crown thing [don't know its name in english! ]?
The podium cerimony looked much more epic and special!

It certainly did but as sponsors began to cover drivers overalls with adverts they covered them up so they had to go.