Grand Prix Rejects

Ataxia wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:

OsellaFA1L wrote:AFdC has been announced as Red Bull reserve driver. I personally thought he should have got Kvyat's drive as the Russian doesn't as much experience.

For now, I think that will be Antonio's big break. I wonder what he'll race next year, as I have read RBR want him on race weekends to do work in the simulator.

He's driving for BMW in DTM.

Yeah, I heard about that BMW DTM test as well. Didn't know he'd race though.

Ataxia wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:

OsellaFA1L wrote:AFdC has been announced as Red Bull reserve driver. I personally thought he should have got Kvyat's drive as the Russian doesn't as much experience.

For now, I think that will be Antonio's big break. I wonder what he'll race next year, as I have read RBR want him on race weekends to do work in the simulator.

He's driving for BMW in DTM.

That is correct, although that shouldn't cause any problems for da Costa - the races in the DTM calendar don't clash with any race weekends in F1, so he should be able to compete in DTM and carry out simulator work at the same time.

As an aside, Red Bull have hinted that he might also take part in the mid season tests that has been proposed for this season to help them calibrate their simulator against their on track performance. It's probably not a bad thing for da Costa to therefore be in that position - should either driver at Toro Rosso fail to meet expectations in 2014, he could then be brought in for 2015 after honing his skills in those mid season tests.

"Should either driver at Toro Rosso or RED BULL fail to meet expectations in 2014"

IceG wrote:"Should either driver at Toro Rosso or Daniel Ricciardo fail to meet expectations in 2014"

Quick edit there for ya make it a bit more realistic.

Zetec wrote:Giedo van der Garde driving for Sauber in 2014, you heard it here first!

Please make this happen!!

Zetec wrote:Giedo van der Garde driving for Sauber in 2014, you heard it here first!

I can only assume that "you heard it here first" means it's a complete fabrication at the moment?

Giedo van der Garde is in a good position for the silly season however. He is apparently on Force India's radar, which would be a very good step up for him, and also pitting him against a well rated team-mate. If he were to match Hulkenberg, I imagine his stock would raise very quickly.

Should that not materialise, Caterham appear to be keen to retain him for next season. All credit to him - I wrote him off at the start of the year and he has proved me completely wrong. He has at the very least, reasonable talent, and coupled with a decent sponsorship package behind him, makes van der Garde a suitable candidate for lower midfield teams. If Force India have indeed come knocking however, it may well be his big break.

Giedo Van der Garde had about 5-6 great races but was amusingly terrible for the rest. I therefore am not sure what to think of him

eurobrun wrote:Giedo Van der Garde had about 5-6 great races but was amusingly terrible for the rest. I therefore am not sure what to think of him

I felt that this year he did have a few great races. But he wasn't terrible in almost all of them, for the one possible lonely exception of Canada when he showed his inner de Cesaris. I think it may be a reasonable gamble for Force India, but I'd still stick with Checo for now.

Stramala wrote:

Zetec wrote:Giedo van der Garde driving for Sauber in 2014, you heard it here first!

I can only assume that "you heard it here first" means it's a complete fabrication at the moment?

Sauber "wants" Sirotkin. Actually, the don't want him but if they don't take him, some russians want their money back. So they need money to get rid of him (they only took him, because they believed in the payments from the actual deal. But the payments stopped quite early on). If the Sirotkin deal doesn't happend, van der Garde is in poleposition for a drive, rumoured to bring 15 millions €. How do I know these informations? I live in Switzerland not far away the Sauber-factory...

Zetec wrote:

Stramala wrote:

Zetec wrote:Giedo van der Garde driving for Sauber in 2014, you heard it here first!

I can only assume that "you heard it here first" means it's a complete fabrication at the moment?

Sauber "wants" Sirotkin. Actually, the don't want him but if they don't take him, some russians want their money back. So they need money to get rid of him (they only took him, because they believed in the payments from the actual deal. But the payments stopped quite early on). If the Sirotkin deal doesn't happend, van der Garde is in poleposition for a drive, rumoured to bring 15 millions €. How do I know these informations? I live in Switzerland not far away the Sauber-factory...

So you actually hear these rumours from the people from the Sauber factory? Intriguing... Lucky that you live close by

go_Rubens wrote:

eurobrun wrote:Giedo Van der Garde had about 5-6 great races but was amusingly terrible for the rest. I therefore am not sure what to think of him

I felt that this year he did have a few great races. But he wasn't terrible in almost all of them, for the one possible lonely exception of Canada when he showed his inner de Cesaris. I think it may be a reasonable gamble for Force India, but I'd still stick with Checo for now.

Australia, China, Bahrain, Monaco in the race (qualifying was good), Canada, UK, Japan, India, arguably Brazil. That is a fair chunk of races

eurobrun wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:

eurobrun wrote:Giedo Van der Garde had about 5-6 great races but was amusingly terrible for the rest. I therefore am not sure what to think of him

I felt that this year he did have a few great races. But he wasn't terrible in almost all of them, for the one possible lonely exception of Canada when he showed his inner de Cesaris. I think it may be a reasonable gamble for Force India, but I'd still stick with Checo for now.

Australia, China, Bahrain, Monaco in the race (qualifying was good), Canada, UK, Japan, India, arguably Brazil. That is a fair chunk of races

Yesh, I'll agree with Canada, Japan, Monaco in the race, and Brazil. But what bad things did he do besides those 4 races? I don't see what he'a done wrong beaides except for being anonymous, and that's not really his fault that the TV directors can't show backmarkers.

eurobrun wrote:Giedo Van der Garde had about 5-6 great races but was amusingly terrible for the rest. I therefore am not sure what to think of him

Barring the first couple of races, and Canada, he actually wasn't that bad. Considering I was expecting a season of de Cesaris-style japes from him, he was surprisingly solid, and was more than a match for Pic, who seems a solid enough driver.

There some speculations about Chilton future. The Briton's father left AON.

http://www.f1passion.it/2013/12/f1-catt ... ia-la-aon/

Dj_bereta wrote:There some speculations about Chilton future. The Briton's father left AON.

http://www.f1passion.it/2013/12/f1-catt ... ia-la-aon/

The thing is, Max Chilton isn't actually sponsored by Aon but a weird investment group-type arrangement.

Jesus bathplug christ.

@EliGP wrote:Wowser, double points will be awarded in the final race of the season from next year. #F1

No, I'm serious. Sorry. Story coming up.

GwilymJJames wrote:Jesus bathplug christ.

@EliGP wrote:Wowser, double points will be awarded in the final race of the season from next year. #F1

No, I'm serious. Sorry. Story coming up.

Sadly, I can confirm this is 100% true.

What a joke, honestly.

GwilymJJames wrote:Jesus bathplug christ.

@EliGP wrote:Wowser, double points will be awarded in the final race of the season from next year. #F1

No, I'm serious. Sorry. Story coming up.

Bathplugging ridiculous. I don't know why but it seems that if something works well, it must be ruined immediately. Double points for winning on what may be the worst track in F1.

Someone leads the championship by 49 points before last race. He then leads by a minute, only to suffer an engine failure on last lap with his main challenger winning.

Also a cost cap and fixed numbers. Those two may be good, but this double point rule for last race....umpgf. Especially considering it's Abby Dabby.

http://www.fia.com/formula-one-regulation-changes

Formula One does not need gimmicks like double points or number associations. Anyone who can convince me otherwise is a genius, although I'll have to say even mario would have a tough time.

The only good thing about these new sham 'rules' is a budget cap for 2015. If that doesn't work, or if we get more of these useless gimmick rules, like Formula One is some sort of open wheeled NASCAR, then I may have to consider turning my back on F1. Sort it out, FIA. Seriously.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand well done FIA, you've just RUINED Formula One!!!!!!!!!!!!

East Londoner wrote:

GwilymJJames wrote:Jesus bathplug christ.

@EliGP wrote:Wowser, double points will be awarded in the final race of the season from next year. #F1

No, I'm serious. Sorry. Story coming up.

Sadly, I can confirm this is 100% true.

What a joke, honestly.

Indeed. Another sad day. Why I am against this? Well, besides that, in years like 2013, not making any difference besides exacerbating points difference, they will also be making life harder for those who can't plough massive amounts money into development... Hooray F1!

Well that's a very good joke ^^ Now two questions arise:
- will someone take the number 13? (my bet: Kimi will)
- will someone take the number 42? (and the answer to that is 42 of course XD )

Cheers, I hope next season will be hilarious or it will be a very bad joke indeed

Oh god, the amount of bickering there will be next season over the budget cap will be biblical. Suffice to say, I can't see it being implemented.

GwilymJJames wrote:Jesus bathplug christ.

@EliGP wrote:Wowser, double points will be awarded in the final race of the season from next year. #F1

No, I'm serious. Sorry. Story coming up.

And now Autosport is reporting that the FIA has approved the proposal for a "double points" season finale - according to them, the FIA Strategy Group has passed the measure, whilst the World Motorsport Council had already rubber stamped the move by agreeing in advance that the Strategy Group could change the regulations as it pleased.

Formula 1 will award double points for its final round from the 2014 season in an effort to keep championship battles open longer.

The move was agreed by the F1 Strategy Group and the Formula One Commission at a meeting in Paris on Monday.

It will automatically become part of the regulations as the FIA World Motor Sport Council agreed last week to give the Strategy Group and Commission a mandate to agree rule changes on this occasion.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111795

pasta_maldonado wrote:Formula One does not need gimmicks like double points or number associations. Anyone who can convince me otherwise is a genius, although I'll have to say even mario would have a tough time.

The only good thing about these new sham 'rules' is a budget cap for 2015. If that doesn't work, or if we get more of these useless gimmick rules, like Formula One is some sort of open wheeled NASCAR, then I may have to consider turning my back on F1. Sort it out, FIA. Seriously.

I can't even convince myself of the benefit, let alone anybody else - I could just about understand the number association given that it is fairly common in other series, like MotoGP (though dislike the fact it is a purely merchandising driven decision), but the double points decision just reeks of pure gimmickry as a desperate attempt to inject excitement into a race at a venue that normally is about as stimulating as valium.

At least, on the upside, some more sensible proposals do seem to have been agreed - the proposal for a cost cap is a measure that has been called for for a number of years, although I am wary given that these sorts of proposals have a tendency to fade into the background. The overhauling of the tyre testing is a step in the right direction given Pirelli have had to operate with one hand tied behind their back in that sense, although I'm uncomfortable with the fact that only six teams can afford to take part.

East Londoner wrote:Oh god, the amount of bickering there will be next season over the budget cap will be biblical. Suffice to say, I can't see it being implemented.

Either that, or it will be implemented and then there will be an even bigger argument when teams throw accusations of false accounting against each other, forcing an embarrassing reversal of the rules.

Well, we need to start a mass outcry and make it abundantly clear to the FIA that this is not what any fans want. Remember The Gold Medals system of 2009? That was dropped because everyone was against it, we need to force the FIA to do the same. Otherwise I'm not sure if I'll watch next year.

tc3j3r wrote:Well, we need to start a mass outcry and make it abundantly clear to the FIA that this is not what any fans want. Remember The Gold Medals system of 2009? That was dropped because everyone was against it, we need to force the FIA to do the same. Otherwise I'm not sure if I'll watch next year.

The problem with that though was the medals system was implemented very late in the off-season, less than a fortnight before the first race IIRC, which was against the letter of the law concerning rule changes. This has been proposed and accepted with months to go, so I can't see it being reversed.

I think everyone is totally overreacting to this. Having double points at the last race isn't fantastic, but neither is it totally absurd. At least it means it's theoretically harder to have a total cakewalk of a year. As for the numbers - who even really cares? They're numbers, they only mean as much as you make them mean. Well, apart from the number 1, but that's not changing anyway. And as for the budget cap, well, I prefer not being totally pessimistic about the one thing that, if it was properly implemented, would most help F1 not collapse under it's own, super inflated girth.

mario wrote:

East Londoner wrote:Oh god, the amount of bickering there will be next season over the budget cap will be biblical. Suffice to say, I can't see it being implemented.

Either that, or it will be implemented and then there will be an even bigger argument when teams throw accusations of false accounting against each other, forcing an embarrassing reversal of the rules.

... can you please explain how accusations will force a reversal? The only thing I can see undoing that is a team proving that it would be impossible to police, similar to what Ferrari did with team orders at Hockenheim 2010.

COST CAP: What is the actual cap, anyway?? If it's not something ridiculously high or low and they can somehow manage to enforce it, then let's see how it goes.
TYRE TEST: Good. Sucks that everyone can't make it, but it's far better than another GP ending up crazy for the wrong reasons.
DRIVER NUMBERS: Meh. I like the 1996 (or whenever it was introduced) system better, but it won't actually change anything.
FIVE-SECOND PENALTIES: There have definitely been cases, mostly corner-cutting, where no penalty is ridiculous and twenty-five seconds is too harsh, so this'll be good.
DOUBLE POINTS: gfkw09iv m-T=-2VO-03:{)KvK)TtvvV_)^T)$ Hooray for DTM, my new favourite racing series!

I'm not so angry about the double points thing. Over the years, many different points scoring systems have been tried. Dropped scores, no dropped scores, 8 points for the winner, 9 points for the winner, 10 points for the winner, points for fastest lap, 5,6,8 or 10 points scorers.

But only in very close seasons, that makes a difference. I once tried the IndyCar points system for F1, and it hardly changed the champpionship order at all. Even using Bernie's dumb medal system wouldn't change the champion in most cases.

So I really don't care much about that. The only thing which annoys me is that it is Abu Dhabi which gets the double points. Other series have races with double points too, but those are usually special races. In WEC it's Le Mans, in WTCC Macao, and in F1... a stupid Tilkedrome which is most notable for modern architecture and boring racing, just a Grand Prix like all others.

I'm not a fan of the five second penalty, it reminds me too much of what DTM did this year.

Don't really care about the numbers thing, although I preferred the old one.

Regarding the cost cap, if it is implemented correctly, and there are no loopholes, I hope it works.

East Londoner wrote:

tc3j3r wrote:Well, we need to start a mass outcry and make it abundantly clear to the FIA that this is not what any fans want. Remember The Gold Medals system of 2009? That was dropped because everyone was against it, we need to force the FIA to do the same. Otherwise I'm not sure if I'll watch next year.

The problem with that though was the medals system was implemented very late in the off-season, less than a fortnight before the first race IIRC, which was against the letter of the law concerning rule changes. This has been proposed and accepted with months to go, so I can't see it being reversed.

for
But they could have introduced it for 2010 (in the initial press released cancellling it for '09 they said it had benn 'deferred to 2010'0 but chose not to and quitly dropped it because it was so unpopular.

With double points Kimi would be the 03 champion, Massa the 08 champion and Fernado the 2012 champion

GwilymJJames wrote:The inevitable past seasons thread.

Thanks for that. It actually makes more of a difference than I thought.

This double points thing is a crock of something in my opinion because it is a pointless gimmick which the sport doesn't need
Today is the day that marked the beinning of the end for F1

Another Pointless (sorry) stupid exercise by Bernie- It WILL NOT gain interest in the season and anyway the title may be wrapped up by Japan anyway. A waste of time and energy reading it as well.

Gosh, I'm so glad that the FIA are awarding double points at the final round. I mean, many times last season I found myself hankering for yet another pointless gimmick

Seriously, it probably isn't as bad as all the knee-jerk reactions are making it out to be; its just, at the moment, there are several more pressing issues within the sport that remain unresolved.

This could be good. First of all, mandatory two stops seem to have been left off the table...

Salamander wrote:I think everyone is totally overreacting to this. Having double points at the last race isn't fantastic, but neither is it totally absurd. At least it means it's theoretically harder to have a total cakewalk of a year. As for the numbers - who even really cares? They're numbers, they only mean as much as you make them mean. Well, apart from the number 1, but that's not changing anyway. And as for the budget cap, well, I prefer not being totally pessimistic about the one thing that, if it was properly implemented, would most help F1 not collapse under it's own, super inflated girth.

Surprisingly, given my recent critics to the current state of F1's decision making, I tend to agree with this.

The point of this move is that, given an ever extending calendar, the chances of the championship being settled before the final race of the season are ever increasing, because a single race represents a smaller part of the season than it used to be. And, where a dominant driver would win the season in race 12/16, leaving four "meaningless" races at the end of the year, nowadays he would win it in race 15/20, leaving five such races. In fact, now that I'm using numbers I'm starting to find this move more pointless than I did before I started writing this paragraph after all, it is not such a big difference as I had first thought. So, yes, the idea is to increase the likelihood of the final race to be a title decider, but no, the chances of it being haven't decreased that much in recent years. Still, I don't think it's gonna be such a deal breaker, because the teams will plan taking this into account. There have been way worse ideas - namely, the medals system...

I will miss the current numbers system, if only because I don't like the idea of having car #80 overtaking car #93. If I was taking the shots I would go back to football players in the starting 11 using 1-11 shirts, with the players in the bench using 12-18. And basketball rosters would always use numbers between 4 and 15. But it isn't a big deal at all.

As per the cost cap, I believe it is the most relevant part of the announcement, but we'll have to wait and see what the final deal is. In the current state of the sport, I would be happy with a $150 millon cap for 2015, with the cap decreasing every year in exchange for bigger technical freedom.

With any number from #2 to #99 available to drivers to select (I'd assume #1 is reserved for the champion), what sort of numbers could you see? Someone taking #69 would be quite comical, #27 for a Ferrari driver could be a good move, and I think there could be some high numbers selected.