Rantbox

[Cynon]

Cynon:

NASCAR is well aware that their cars are basically racing tanks. You have a greater chance of being hurt on a tricycle than in a NASCAR car.

So that's makes it ok to deliberatly crash into someone else? Ok thanks for clearing that up...

Actually, most of the "retaliation" wrecks are on the short ovals where you barely exceed 140 miles per hour, and thus, if you do intentionally spin someone out, the chance of injury really is zero. When it's done at higher speed tracks, it's uncalled for. Nobody used to do silly retaliation wrecks on tracks where someone could get seriously hurt. People in NASCAR (used to, as I will explain later) have a lot more regard for their competitors than to do that.

The way the whole retaliation thing is supposed to go is quite literally eye-for-an-eye. You bump someone out of the way, you should expect them to do the same to you later in the race. You spin someone out doing something stupid, they probably will spin you back out. It used to work just fine, because if it got too out of hand the officials would sort things out. Kevin Harvick found that out the hard way in 2002 and received the exact same penalty Kyle Busch received on Saturday.

However, the problem arises when you have people get really PO'd over little racing incidents. The Kyle Busch/Ron Hornaday incident is emblematic of the current drivers' attitudes -- getting overly-pissed off and trying to kill the other guy because of a racing incident that was nobody's fault. That is why it's an issue.

I don't think this aspect of American stock car racing would exist if the cars weren't as safe as they are. Makes you wonder if safety is all it's made out to be, eh?

[DanielPT]

Cynon:

NASCAR is well aware that their cars are basically racing tanks. You have a greater chance of being hurt on a tricycle than in a NASCAR car.

So that's makes it ok to deliberatly crash into someone else? Ok thanks for clearing that up...

Actually, most of the "retaliation" wrecks are on the short ovals where you barely exceed 140 miles per hour, and thus, if you do intentionally spin someone out, the chance of injury really is zero. When it's done at higher speed tracks, it's uncalled for. Nobody used to do silly retaliation wrecks on tracks where someone could get seriously hurt. People in NASCAR (used to, as I will explain later) have a lot more regard for their competitors than to do that.

The way the whole retaliation thing is supposed to go is quite literally eye-for-an-eye. You bump someone out of the way, you should expect them to do the same to you later in the race. You spin someone out doing something stupid, they probably will spin you back out. It used to work just fine, because if it got too out of hand the officials would sort things out. Kevin Harvick found that out the hard way in 2002 and received the exact same penalty Kyle Busch received on Saturday.

However, the problem arises when you have people get really PO'd over little racing incidents. The Kyle Busch/Ron Hornaday incident is emblematic of the current drivers' attitudes -- getting overly-pissed off and trying to kill the other guy because of a racing incident that was nobody's fault. That is why it's an issue.

I don't think this aspect of American stock car racing would exist if the cars weren't as safe as they are. Makes you wonder if safety is all it's made out to be, eh?

I am sorry to say this, but people die in tanks too. If you go out there in a tank and someone accidentally launches an anti-tank rocket to you and you end up dead it is really bad luck. It happens. No matter how hard and safe the car seems to be, it can happen. Hell, you can even die with your car parked. You just need a freak accident for it to happen. We, as motorsport fans, are usually aware of this. One bad accident can take the life out of one of our heroes (like most of us experienced when Senna died. I still get chills just thinking about it.). Now, what would happen if one driver died in a freak accident because someone else decided to retaliate and cause the crash? Would the driver at fault be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter? It would be considered just bad luck and happily move on? This is why I am against. It doesn't matter if you are throwing rocks at a kevlar vested dude.

[mario]

Cynon:

NASCAR is well aware that their cars are basically racing tanks. You have a greater chance of being hurt on a tricycle than in a NASCAR car.

So that's makes it ok to deliberatly crash into someone else? Ok thanks for clearing that up...

Actually, most of the "retaliation" wrecks are on the short ovals where you barely exceed 140 miles per hour, and thus, if you do intentionally spin someone out, the chance of injury really is zero.

Being injured may be statistically unlikely these days, but there is still some inherent risk there, and this is why I am disappointed that the governing authorities have not taken a stricter line in this instance.

When you have multiple cars on track in very close proximity with the potential for a considerable speed differential, and given that the optimal line is, most circuits, relatively narrow, you're inevitably going to have some jostling as cars converge towards the same piece of tarmac. That sort of action, where there is no malicious intent, is part of the sport, and unless somebody does something quite stupid I agree that there should be a fair amount of leeway.
On the other hand, intentionally spinning somebody into a wall, regardless of the speed at which it occurs, shows considerable contempt by that driver towards his rivals, especially when the driver in question has a history of such acts.

As for the comment about safety, that's much more difficult to answer. It is true that drivers of all kinds (i.e. those on the public roads and on a track), if they feel safer in their cars, tend to abuse that sense of protection and tend to drive more aggressively (there is strong evidence to show that the advent of seatbelts lead to an increase in minor road accidents and pedestrian accidents due to drivers thinking "It's OK, I've got a seatbelt" and therefore paying less attention to those around them).
On the other hand, though, that alone is just one aspect - reducing the risk of major or potentially fatal injuries means that deterrant is removed, but some could argue that in its place you could put another penalty, albeit one that isn't quite so terminal (multiple race bans, say, alongside or coupled with financial penalties). This, I think, is the other aspect - given that Cynon points out that the governing body has decided to be quite lenient in previous occasions, you end up in a situation where the drivers believe that there are no penalties, either in terms of injuries or bans.

And if there is no disincentive to crashing into rivals, then some, sadly, are taking the attitude that they might as well just do it and to hell with the consequences.

[Cynon]

I am sorry to say this, but people die in tanks too. If you go out there in a tank and someone accidentally launches an anti-tank rocket to you and you end up dead it is really bad luck. It happens. No matter how hard and safe the car seems to be, it can happen. Hell, you can even die with your car parked. You just need a freak accident for it to happen. We, as motorsport fans, are usually aware of this. One bad accident can take the life out of one of our heroes (like most of us experienced when Senna died. I still get chills just thinking about it.). Now, what would happen if one driver died in a freak accident because someone else decided to retaliate and cause the crash? Would the driver at fault be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter? It would be considered just bad luck and happily move on? This is why I am against. It doesn't matter if you are throwing rocks at a kevlar vested dude.

I've actually wondered what would happen if that situation arose, or, if it has, what was done about it. There have been a few drivers killed after contact with other drivers, however those were all just the product of hard racing (Blaise Alexander). I'd have to look up and see what happened, but if it did, it probably wasn't on any of the major NASCAR-sanctioned tours and thus probably didn't have the same safety standards.

Generally speaking, most retaliation is just little bumps at low speed. A friend of mine who races a 4-cylinder 'hornet' car in the New England area has often said he doesn't mind getting a bump from someone he hit earlier in the race.

Again, I don't think this would exist in American stock car racing if the cars weren't 10 times safer than anything being run in Europe or elsewhere. To clarify, I'm not exactly defending doing this (there's a few instances where someone absolutely deserves it), I'm just explaining why it happens.

[DanielPT]

Again, I don't think this would exist in American stock car racing if the cars weren't 10 times safer than anything being run in Europe or elsewhere. To clarify, I'm not exactly defending doing this (there's a few instances where someone absolutely deserves it), I'm just explaining why it happens.

I know. I was just going on about the "NASCAR is safe enough, so the problem is not there" idea. In motorsport the "is safe enough" does not exist.

[fjackdaw]

I am very bored by blue, red and white helmets. When anyone mentions a potential new driver for next year, I always look them up, and almost all of them have very similar-looking, very generic helmets, often along the lines of white and blue with a backward-leaning red stripe.

[Cynon]

For anyone who wants to read some of the best rage against Kyle Busch EVER, please check out The Mayor of Hinchtown's Twitter (James Hinchcliffe).

[Warren Hughes]

I am very bored by blue, red and white helmets. When anyone mentions a potential new driver for next year, I always look them up, and almost all of them have very similar-looking, very generic helmets, often along the lines of white and blue with a backward-leaning red stripe.

Greatest rant ever.

[Salamander]

For anyone who wants to read some of the best rage against Kyle Busch EVER, please check out The Mayor of Hinchtown's Twitter (James Hinchcliffe).

Hinchcliffe is now my equal-favourite IndyCar driver (alongside Will Power).

[Shizuka]

"Maybe Dr. Phil could help"

[nome66]

Moar rant!
I closed my eyes during the race in inda and couldn't tell anyone's car apart.
"And here passes Alonso" the announcer said, but I wasn't sure because the sound was the same as Vettel.

[DanielPT]

Another crap end to the WRC season... A title for Loeb by default. Again... I still cannot decide if Loeb is the best ever driver to sit in a rally car or if the talent pool and manufacturer variety is manifestly insufficient. I suspect it's the former since Loeb has been giving free driving lessons to almost any kind of opposition in RoC but this is making WRC, well, predictable and quite boring. One didn't needed to visit a psychic to guess that Hirvonen would eventually overdrive and consequently crash out. Maybe VW and Mini can bring some excitement to this thing...

[dr-baker]

Another crap end to the WRC season... A title for Loeb by default. Again... I still cannot decide if Loeb is the best ever driver to sit in a rally car or if the talent pool and manufacturer variety is manifestly insufficient. I suspect it's the former since Loeb has been giving free driving lessons to almost any kind of opposition in RoC but this is making WRC, well, predictable and quite boring. One didn't needed to visit a psychic to guess that Hirvonen would eventually overdrive and consequently crash out. Maybe VW and Mini can bring some excitement to this thing...

Mini is looking promising so far. But then, how much of their development funds will be diverted by BMW entering the DTM? And do VW have enough funds to fund both a WRC campaign and a Le Mans campaign for Audi? Loeb has dominated since half-way through my last undergraduate degree course. I want him to have serious competition well before my second graduation.

[Myrvold]

Mini doesn't have the funds to race a full season next year they say. It doesn't look too promising.

[mario]

I am very bored by blue, red and white helmets. When anyone mentions a potential new driver for next year, I always look them up, and almost all of them have very similar-looking, very generic helmets, often along the lines of white and blue with a backward-leaning red stripe.

Given that most series are standardising parts I can only assume that even the helmets are being increasingly standardised these days...

Another crap end to the WRC season... A title for Loeb by default. Again... I still cannot decide if Loeb is the best ever driver to sit in a rally car or if the talent pool and manufacturer variety is manifestly insufficient. I suspect it's the former since Loeb has been giving free driving lessons to almost any kind of opposition in RoC but this is making WRC, well, predictable and quite boring. One didn't needed to visit a psychic to guess that Hirvonen would eventually overdrive and consequently crash out. Maybe VW and Mini can bring some excitement to this thing...

Mini is looking promising so far. But then, how much of their development funds will be diverted by BMW entering the DTM? And do VW have enough funds to fund both a WRC campaign and a Le Mans campaign for Audi? Loeb has dominated since half-way through my last undergraduate degree course. I want him to have serious competition well before my second graduation.

Whilst Loeb is a great driver (not just in rallying either - he's a pretty handy circuit driver too, and the ease with which he could switch between the two indicates that he does have considerable talent to draw on), it has to be said that he has also been fortunate in recent years that so much has gone right for him. Citroen have been the dominant force in rallying in recent years as few have had the resources to compete directly with them, leaving few drivers in a position where they can actually compete with Loeb - and that is before the Citroen works team imposes strict team orders within their camp in favour of Loeb (see Ogier this year, who was given team orders at times to stay behind Loeb even though he has been in a position to win events and even this years title).

Mind you, at least Mini are looking quite promising, especially given that their car has only had very limited testing on gravel stages (most of their testing has been on tarmac stages), probably operates on a smaller budget than Citroen's team and overall is still in the very early stages of development, it is impressive how far they have developed. However, I agree that they might struggle to find the resources to keep going, though the fact that they've racked up a podium in France may be enough to possibly keep BMW interested for now.
As for VW, well, they've started their development program now - their test mule has been given its first shakedown on tarmac - and they do have a few promising elements in their team. Yes, I guess that in theory the rally team could divert resources from their Le Mans team, but given that the total turnover of the VW Group was around €127 billion in 2010, finding a few million to fund both efforts would be a drop in the ocean by comparison (and a fair amount of the work on the Le Mans program is subcontracted out anyway to keep costs down).

[DemocalypseNow]

To sum up the WRC issue; Sebastien Ogier is Loeb's first real threat to his title streak since Marcus Gronholm. Perhaps he should have gone to Ford where he would have been able to establish himself as a clear number one driver.
Hirvonen demonstrated in 2004 that he was never going to be world champion. I have a feeling the reason Subaru sacked him after only a single season was due to David Richards sticking to his old saying; "It's easier to get a driver to go from 110% to 100% than 90% to 100%." This is the exact reason Colin McRae was world champion and Hirvonen will never be. Back in only his second full WRC season he was a consistent points scorer but failed to show any big flashes of speed and talent.
As for Latvala, he still has potential, but he needs to get into the title hunt now before he becomes a prodigious talent gone to waste.
IMO Solberg and Wilson need to make up for what happened a decade ago and get back to winning ways again. And if they can tie down Ott Tänak to a long term contract, they may finally have a young driver who can go on to win titles in future.

[nome66]

i just think RBR is trying to find out how many title winning Sebastians they can fit into a racecar.
unfortunately Buemi and Bordais didn't work as they hoped.

[mario]

[...]
IMO Solberg and Wilson need to make up for what happened a decade ago and get back to winning ways again. And if they can tie down Ott Tänak to a long term contract, they may finally have a young driver who can go on to win titles in future.

The problem is that Solberg barely has the resources to participate, let alone compete - he is only taking part here because he retired very early on in Catalunya, leaving him with just enough money to compete here. Even then, he is mainly having to rely on the kindness of others - he couldn't afford a support crew for his recce, hit trouble and was fortunate that mechanics from other teams were kind enough to help him out. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96042
So, when you're barely clinging onto financial solvency, whereas your rivals are in a works outfit, it's pretty clear that the playing field is pretty heavily tilted in the favour of your rivals...

[DemocalypseNow]

[...]
IMO Solberg and Wilson need to make up for what happened a decade ago and get back to winning ways again. And if they can tie down Ott Tänak to a long term contract, they may finally have a young driver who can go on to win titles in future.

The problem is that Solberg barely has the resources to participate, let alone compete - he is only taking part here because he retired very early on in Catalunya, leaving him with just enough money to compete here. Even then, he is mainly having to rely on the kindness of others - he couldn't afford a support crew for his recce, hit trouble and was fortunate that mechanics from other teams were kind enough to help him out. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96042
So, when you're barely clinging onto financial solvency, whereas your rivals are in a works outfit, it's pretty clear that the playing field is pretty heavily tilted in the favour of your rivals...

That was the point I was making there...Wilson being Malcolm Wilson of M-Sport who run the Ford works effort. After Solberg cut and run from Ford to join Subaru they've been at odds and it's about time they joined forces again to try and take on Loeb. As soon as Petter wins another rally his confidence will come back in spades and he has the talent to beat Loeb.

[Cynon]

i just think RBR is trying to find out how many title winning Sebastians they can fit into a racecar.
unfortunately Buemi and Bordais didn't work as they hoped.

Red Bull was reportedly working on an IRL deal with Sebastien Bourdais and Dale Coyne. Not sure how that's progressing, haven't heard much from it since September, really.

[Londoner]

Why won't this bloody season end?! I've been rapidly losing interest since Vettel took the inevitable title. The only thing that's kept my interest alive since then is seeing who Hamilton crashes into at each race, and even that's getting boring and predictable.

[FullMetalJack]

Why won't this bloody season end?! I've been rapidly losing interest since Vettel took the inevitable title. The only thing that's kept my interest alive since then is seeing who Hamilton crashes into at each race, and even that's getting boring and predictable.

It's not like we even have loveable minnows anymore, I can't root for HRT in the same way I did for Minardi or SOOPAH AGURI.

I want the season to end because watching Williams perform so badly hurts me inside.

[Warren Hughes]

I want it to be next season, but I don't want the season to end, because rubbish F1 is better than no F1.

[Myrvold]

I don't want this season to end. Ever.

As a Norwegian, being able to download BBCs coverage, I guess is somewhat the same as a christian person actually gets to meet Jesus.

[F1000X]

I'm not entirely sure I agree with the now massive collection open wheel development series taking place in Europe. Obviously F1 and GP2 both seem to stand on their own from a performance perspective. But then you've got Auto GP, GP3, Formula Two, World Series by Renault, Superleague Formula (which I do not understand at all), and Formula 3.

From what I've been able to make out:
GP3 is just Bernie's attempt to grab a piece of the development series pie.
FIA Formula Two is a somewhat more affordable series, but not as well promoted, and is Jonathan Palmer's attempt to do much of the same thing.
Auto GP I do not understand of the relevance of anymore. Looking at the entry list, the cast is a list of open wheel racing nobodies. Nobody aside from Massa (and to a lesser extent, Grosjean) *edit, and Vitaly* has come from success in that category to making a splash F1 in the last 10 years.
Superleague Formula, which receives less than zero coverage in America reads like a joke as well. A bunch of not-quite rejects and nobodies.
You're left with Formula 3 and World Series by Renault, which are both just awesome. Maybe I'm missing the point, but I can't keep up with this excess of feeder formulae.

[JJMonty]

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I can't keep up with this excess of feeder formulae.

It is to ensure that viewers are bored out of their mind when watching Formula 1 because all the drivers are "professionals", the amateurism which kept us entertained (even 10 years ago) is to be avoided - only circuits can be the laughing stock now, not drivers!

Formula 3 will always be popular because it is an old series, a successful series internationally that has had many future champions come from it, I also think the series made by the manufactures are good e.g. Formula Ford, Formula BMW (which also got a lot of publicity through Sim-Racing) and Formula Renault, Megane Cup, World Series By Renault etc....

GP2 is more or less F3000 so I think that is still a worthy feeder series, however stuff like Auto GP which is more or less..... old A1 GP cars going to circuits that F1 left years ago with less known drivers or reject worthy drivers racing in the series is not my cup of tea.

Superleague Formula, ergh..... I just hated it from the start, why merge football with motorsport??? Nothing like reading on the news paper "Rangers FC won their race at Jerez today" leaving me " " - the only good thing about the series is the engines which does give you an eargasum (then again they are V12's so what do you expect? )

GP3 was Ecclestone's attempt at world domination in the junior series and to give Formula 2 competition, personally I prefer the Formula 2 format because they visit circuits that will test driving skills (visiting circuits without these acres of tarmac run-off road for a start) - it got a lot of publicity in it's first year, though for all the wrong reasons, but I do like the format still and prefer it to GP3.

[DanielPT]

GP3 was Ecclestone's attempt at world domination in the junior series and to give Formula 2 competition, personally I prefer the Formula 2 format because they visit circuits that will test driving skills (visiting circuits without these acres of tarmac run-off road for a start) - it got a lot of publicity in it's first year, though for all the wrong reasons, but I do like the format still and prefer it to GP3.

Isn't GP3 a bit forgot in the feeder scene? I see GP3 as the series those who could not get into FR3.5 or GP2 right away and so went to a lower category but not quite the F3 or the FR2.0 where they came from. F2 is usually avoidable if you can go from FR2.0 to FR3.5 or GP2.

[AdrianSutil]

Not sure how drivers from other countries do it, but the ladder in Britain is usually:

Karts
Formula Ford
Formula 3
World Series by Renault/GP2/GP3
Formula 1

I don't mind the feeder series as much as those Superleague Formula and old A1GP, which are just a poor mans Formula 1.

[JJMonty]

GP3 was Ecclestone's attempt at world domination in the junior series and to give Formula 2 competition, personally I prefer the Formula 2 format because they visit circuits that will test driving skills (visiting circuits without these acres of tarmac run-off road for a start) - it got a lot of publicity in it's first year, though for all the wrong reasons, but I do like the format still and prefer it to GP3.

Isn't GP3 a bit forgot in the feeder scene? I see GP3 as the series those who could not get into FR3.5 or GP2 right away and so went to a lower category but not quite the F3 or the FR2.0 where they came from. F2 is usually avoidable if you can go from FR2.0 to FR3.5 or GP2.

You do have a point, I thought it was just Ecclestone's attempt at taking over F2 and winning the battle i.e. keeping it all on "his side".... it is very much a "fill in the middle" series which just makes the whole process of progressing to an F1 driver even longer and more difficult

[F1000X]

Not sure how drivers from other countries do it, but the ladder in Britain is usually:

Karts
Formula Ford
Formula 3
World Series by Renault/GP2/GP3
Formula 1

I don't mind the feeder series as much as those Superleague Formula and old A1GP, which are just a poor mans Formula 1.

American open wheel racing reads something like this.
Karts
US Formula 2000
Star Mazda
Indy Lights
Indycar

There used to be a couple more series in the mix that no longer exist; Barber Dodge, Atlantic Championship, Formula BMW USA, Formula TR Pro Series. It doesn't even really matter though. Serious American open wheel racers do like Rossi and move to Europe, otherwise they just get sucked into the NASCAR vortex of misery.

The frustrating part is that anything below Indy Lights sees virtually no coverage. Star Mazda used to be on television, but I don't think it is anymore.

[Jeroen Krautmeir]

Not sure how drivers from other countries do it, but the ladder in Britain is usually:

Karts
Formula Ford
Formula 3
World Series by Renault/GP2/GP3
Formula 1

I don't mind the feeder series as much as those Superleague Formula and old A1GP, which are just a poor mans Formula 1.

American open wheel racing reads something like this.
Karts
US Formula 2000
Star Mazda
Indy Lights
Indycar

There used to be a couple more series in the mix that no longer exist; Barber Dodge, Atlantic Championship, Formula BMW USA, Formula TR Pro Series. It doesn't even really matter though. Serious American open wheel racers do like Rossi and move to Europe, otherwise they just get sucked into the NASCAR vortex of misery.

The frustrating part is that anything below Indy Lights sees virtually no coverage. Star Mazda used to be on television, but I don't think it is anymore.

ATLANTICS IS GONE? I never knew that! What a shame!

[Sponge]

lllllllllooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeee star mazda, they are all batshit crazy and grids of 40+ cars in some places = big mess

[Cynon]

American open wheel racing reads something like this.
Karts
US Formula 2000
Star Mazda
Indy Lights
Indycar

There used to be a couple more series in the mix that no longer exist; Barber Dodge, Atlantic Championship, Formula BMW USA, Formula TR Pro Series. It doesn't even really matter though. Serious American open wheel racers do like Rossi and move to Europe, otherwise they just get sucked into the NASCAR vortex of misery.

The frustrating part is that anything below Indy Lights sees virtually no coverage. Star Mazda used to be on television, but I don't think it is anymore.

You forgot USAC and various sprint and midget car categories, which have produced a fair number of skilled drivers such as A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti, Al Unser, Jr. (before the booze), etc. There's a few very good drivers that are using that as a route into Indy Lights these days -- Bryan Clauson (who failed in NASCAR*) for one.

The junior categories of American open wheel racing aren't known for being all that great these days (probably due to stock car racing being more affordable and more popular), a lot of the more talented drivers that enter IndyCar do so by way of starting in the European ladder and then jumping ship midway down the line (yes, American drivers do that too).

Atlantics became redundant when the split ended, and Indy Lights this year was pretty dumb to be honest. Star Mazda, whenever it used to be televised, was insanity. Some very good drivers there, but a lot more crap drivers!

* He drove for Chip Ganassi's sinking ship of a team, no surprise there really.

[AdrianSutil]

Britain itself has hundreds of categories. Look a tin-tops: Ginetta Junior. Ginetta G50's and G55's. Renault Clio Cup. Porsche Supercup. BTCC. Maybe a driver could do a 'Di Resta' come from tin-top into formula 1. Although it would have to be a pretty special talent to do so, BTCC is nowhere near the DTM in terms of coverage, so the chances are minimal.

[FullMetalJack]

I am slightly bored by Bruno Senna.

[JJMonty]

Britain itself has hundreds of categories. Look a tin-tops: Ginetta Junior. Ginetta G50's and G55's. Renault Clio Cup. Porsche Supercup. BTCC. Maybe a driver could do a 'Di Resta' come from tin-top into formula 1. Although it would have to be a pretty special talent to do so, BTCC is nowhere near the DTM in terms of coverage, so the chances are minimal.

It does have a lot of coverage considering what channel it is on, however it is a National Championship where as DTM is becoming a continental championship again... bit hard to compare really.

I would have said that you stand half a chance of recognition in the WTCC but with so few manufactures in it now... it is about as competitive as WRC (I've lost complete interest in both due to the lack of competition it seems to have now) I really think that Di Resta is going to be a fluke i.e. you should be going from Single Seaters to Tin Tops, not the other way around. Who else made a successful transition from Tin Tops to Single Seaters (In Modern spec F1, not Jimmy Clark era)

[TomWazzleshaw]

Who else made a successful transition from Tin Tops to Single Seaters (In Modern spec F1, not Jimmy Clark era)

Chirstijan Albers did (not that he was that good in F1 anyway )

[eagleash]

Britain itself has hundreds of categories. Look a tin-tops: Ginetta Junior. Ginetta G50's and G55's. Renault Clio Cup. Porsche Supercup. BTCC. Maybe a driver could do a 'Di Resta' come from tin-top into formula 1. Although it would have to be a pretty special talent to do so, BTCC is nowhere near the DTM in terms of coverage, so the chances are minimal.

Agree with JJMonty on this one: 7 solid hours of coverage each race Sunday albeit on ITV4 is a bit more than minimal coverage. ITV4 is available via a Freeview box... which can cost as little as £10....& is possibly the most widely used digital platform if you don't shell out for SKY, Virgin, cable, BT etc.

[JJMonty]

Who else made a successful transition from Tin Tops to Single Seaters (In Modern spec F1, not Jimmy Clark era)

Chirstijan Albers did (not that he was that good in F1 anyway )

I should of re-frazed that question, who moved from tin-tops to single seaters and did well? I wouldn't say Albers did very well, the only things he achieved were a 5th place in US GP... out of 6 cars and successfully completing the 100 Meter sprint with a fuel hose attached to your car!

Britain itself has hundreds of categories. Look a tin-tops: Ginetta Junior. Ginetta G50's and G55's. Renault Clio Cup. Porsche Supercup. BTCC. Maybe a driver could do a 'Di Resta' come from tin-top into formula 1. Although it would have to be a pretty special talent to do so, BTCC is nowhere near the DTM in terms of coverage, so the chances are minimal.

Agree with JJMonty on this one: 7 solid hours of coverage each race Sunday albeit on ITV4 is a bit more than minimal coverage. ITV4 is available via a Freeview box... which can cost as little as £10....& is possibly the most widely used digital platform if you don't shell out for SKY, Virgin, cable, BT etc.

In Jersey, our options are BBC 1, BBC 2, ITV, Channel 4 & Channel 5... for anything else... please buy sky So I am used to this over priced s**t box as it has been the only service offered here in the past 10 years... which is probably why I'm not overly fussed with the channel swap next year between BBC & Sky for F1 coverage! If BTCC was on the main ITV channel then I think it would have even more recognition, but would they then get the 7 hours straight coverage? ... No chance!

[eagleash]

Britain itself has hundreds of categories. Look a tin-tops: Ginetta Junior. Ginetta G50's and G55's. Renault Clio Cup. Porsche Supercup. BTCC. Maybe a driver could do a 'Di Resta' come from tin-top into formula 1. Although it would have to be a pretty special talent to do so, BTCC is nowhere near the DTM in terms of coverage, so the chances are minimal.

Agree with JJMonty on this one: 7 solid hours of coverage each race Sunday albeit on ITV4 is a bit more than minimal coverage. ITV4 is available via a Freeview box... which can cost as little as £10....& is possibly the most widely used digital platform if you don't shell out for SKY, Virgin, cable, BT etc.

In Jersey, our options are BBC 1, BBC 2, ITV, Channel 4 & Channel 5... for anything else... please buy sky So I am used to this over priced s**t box as it has been the only service offered here in the past 10 years... which is probably why I'm not overly fussed with the channel swap next year between BBC & Sky for F1 coverage! If BTCC was on the main ITV channel then I think it would have even more recognition, but would they then get the 7 hours straight coverage? ... No chance!

No Freeview in your area yet? Will it have arrived by the time the analogue signal is switched off?

& nope the main ITV channels would never show 7 straight hours of any sport.

VIz; C4 showing F3 & GT racing at 7AM (& a pretty poor effort to boot in my view too).