Grand Prix Rejects

I wonder if Force India will be legitimate contenders for 4th in the Constructors Championship this season? That is if Sutil's run of horrendous luck ends.

FullMetalJack wrote:I wonder if Force India will be legitimate contenders for 4th in the Constructors Championship this season? That is if Sutil's run of horrendous luck ends.

Hülkenberg will be so pissed if that happens.

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

FullMetalJack wrote:I wonder if Force India will be legitimate contenders for 4th in the Constructors Championship this season? That is if Sutil's run of horrendous luck ends.

Hülkenberg will be so pissed if that happens.

Sutil must have better luck than what he is getting right now IMO

roblomas52 wrote:

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

FullMetalJack wrote:I wonder if Force India will be legitimate contenders for 4th in the Constructors Championship this season? That is if Sutil's run of horrendous luck ends.

Hülkenberg will be so pissed if that happens.

Sutil must have better luck than what he is getting right now IMO

You have truly added something enlightening and previously forgotten to the discussion today.

FullMetalJack wrote:I wonder if Force India will be legitimate contenders for 4th in the Constructors Championship this season? That is if Sutil's run of horrendous luck ends.

The team do seem to think that they have a genuine chance of keeping 5th in the WCC ahead of McLaren if they can pick up more double points finishes, though they conceded that, with the greater resources of McLaren, that they probably will struggle. 4th is perhaps less likely still - that would require them to not only maintain their position ahead of McLaren, but to also overcome a 40 point gap in the WCC to Mercedes, and although Mercedes have struggled in race trim recently, the gap to Force India has still grown rather than shrunk recently.

Would the "Spa 2000-move" still have worked if we replace Hakkinen with Sato,
Schumacher with Montoya, and Zonta with Deletraz ?

Jocke1 wrote:Would the "Spa 2000-move" still have worked if we replace Hakkinen with Sato,
Schumacher with Montoya, and Zonta with Deletraz ?

Sounds like the mother and father of all massive shunts to me

Wizzie wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:Would the "Spa 2000-move" still have worked if we replace Hakkinen with Sato,
Schumacher with Montoya, and Zonta with Deletraz ?

Sounds like the mother and father of all massive shunts to me

see brazil '94 Irvine, Verstappen, Bernard and Brundle

roblomas52 wrote:

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:

FullMetalJack wrote:I wonder if Force India will be legitimate contenders for 4th in the Constructors Championship this season? That is if Sutil's run of horrendous luck ends.

Hülkenberg will be so pissed if that happens.

Sutil must have better luck than what he is getting right now IMO

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:You have truly added something enlightening and previously forgotten to the discussion today.

Controversial takagi is going to stick his neck on the line and say that Sutil actually has had really poor luck this year. There, I said it

I've noted Toro Rosso and Red Bull, but what color would you put in front of Marussia as a name?

Onxy Wrecked wrote:I've noted Toro Rosso and Red Bull, but what color would you put in front of Marussia as a name?

Blue. As in 'blue flag'. As in 'pay attention to the blue flag and get out of the way because Charles Pic is attempting to lap you'.

mario wrote:

FullMetalJack wrote:I wonder if Force India will be legitimate contenders for 4th in the Constructors Championship this season? That is if Sutil's run of horrendous luck ends.

The team do seem to think that they have a genuine chance of keeping 5th in the WCC ahead of McLaren if they can pick up more double points finishes, though they conceded that, with the greater resources of McLaren, that they probably will struggle. 4th is perhaps less likely still - that would require them to not only maintain their position ahead of McLaren, but to also overcome a 40 point gap in the WCC to Mercedes, and although Mercedes have struggled in race trim recently, the gap to Force India has still grown rather than shrunk recently.

That's why I stated if Sutil's luck improves. He's at least as quick as Di Resta, who is bringing in some very solid points at the moment. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

CoopsII wrote:

Onxy Wrecked wrote:I've noted Toro Rosso and Red Bull, but what color would you put in front of Marussia as a name?

Blue. As in 'blue flag'. As in 'pay attention to the blue flag and get out of the way because Charles Pic is attempting to lap you'.

Or the year before where Charles Pic was being lapped in a Marussia! Regardless, blue is a fitting color.

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

Onxy Wrecked wrote:I've noted Toro Rosso and Red Bull, but what color would you put in front of Marussia as a name?

Blue. As in 'blue flag'. As in 'pay attention to the blue flag and get out of the way because Charles Pic is attempting to lap you'.

Or the year before where Charles Pic was being lapped in a Marussia! Regardless, blue is a fitting color.

I think blue was definitely the perfect colour for that flag, especially with Rene Arnoux in the blue Ligier blocking everyone towards the end of his career.

I find it unsettling that McLaren feels the constant need of coming out often to say how happy they are with Perez performances. It is almost like they are not trying to convince the fans but instead themselves that the aforementioned is true.

DanielPT wrote:I find it unsettling that McLaren feels the constant need of coming out often to say how happy they are with Perez performances. It is almost like they are not trying to convince the fans but instead themselves that the aforementioned is true.

Is it just me or do modern drivers need to have their egos massaged even more than in the past? From Massa being encouraged over the radio by Smedley to PR departments, like McLarens, who talk up mediocre performances in case their drivers feel undervalued and unloved. Whether you like him or not Raikkonens attitude appears singulary refreshing.

CoopsII wrote:Is it just me or do modern drivers need to have their egos massaged even more than in the past? From Massa being encouraged over the radio by Smedley to PR departments, like McLarens, who talk up mediocre performances in case their drivers feel undervalued and unloved. Whether you like him or not Raikkonens attitude appears singulary refreshing.

And why not? Drivers are, in average, younger these days than what they have been in the past. Most of them are still teenagers in mind and probably the teams feel like that this is the best way for drivers to show their best.

DanielPT wrote:And why not? Drivers are, in average, younger these days than what they have been in the past. Most of them are still teenagers in mind and probably the teams feel like that this is the best way for drivers to show their best.

So when they're a bit older the teams will start being a bit more honest in their appraisals of their performances? When they hit 25 do they think that, despite what Jack Nicholson said in A Few Good Men, they CAN handle the truth? Perhaps when they're over 25 they'll finally be able to cope with being told 'that lap was pathetic'?

CoopsII wrote:

DanielPT wrote:And why not? Drivers are, in average, younger these days than what they have been in the past. Most of them are still teenagers in mind and probably the teams feel like that this is the best way for drivers to show their best.

So when they're a bit older the teams will start being a bit more honest in their appraisals of their performances? When they hit 25 do they think that, despite what Jack Nicholson said in A Few Good Men, they CAN handle the truth? Perhaps when they're over 25 they'll finally be able to cope with being told 'that lap was pathetic'?

I know times have changed and that kids these days behave differently if only because they are raised differently. For instance, they are given more leeway. But I do think that some of the drivers improved their ways and are not as much cuddled as they were in the past (see Alonso, Rosberg and Button). Several studies say that some people only end their transition to adulthood at 34. It is possible that this was never more true. Drivers don't have the need to grow up so fast these days.

DanielPT wrote: Drivers don't have the need to grow up so fast these days.

Perhaps they should. A bit of maturity wouldnt go amiss sometimes, it could lead to less silly incidents on track.

I don't really have an issue with drivers being a bit more relaxed. For instance, Lewis Hamilton seems to be more expressive now that he is at Mercedes, and it does bring a bit more of an atmosphere to F1, to some extent.

I dont think coming across more relaxed is related to age and maturity. Perhaps it is. I do remember Coulthard going from being a bit grey, dull and full of PR guff at McLaren to being interesting, funny and sometimes a bit naughty when he joined Red Bull. At the time I put that down to the different styles of the teams but perhaps it was an age thing afterall.

With everyone saying that Monaco is a procession, where would they be able to adjust the track to maybe create an overtaking spot?

andrew2209 wrote:With everyone saying that Monaco is a procession, where would they be able to adjust the track to maybe create an overtaking spot?

Wait, now that we arrive at Monaco, it is a procession? Have I suddenly woke up in 2004? For 5 races now that people complain that it is confusing, hard to follow and all a bit random (all thanks to the tyres, of course), when we arrive at one of the places were they finally can have a race unlike those previous five and more like it was back in the naughties where, it seems, was the era of 'real' racing, it is a procession? Do these people even listen to themselves?

DanielPT wrote:

andrew2209 wrote:With everyone saying that Monaco is a procession, where would they be able to adjust the track to maybe create an overtaking spot?

Wait, now that we arrive at Monaco, it is a procession? Have I suddenly woke up in 2004? For 5 races now that people complain that it is confusing, hard to follow and all a bit random (all thanks to the tyres, of course), when we arrive at one of the places were they finally can have a race unlike those previous five and more like it was back in the naughties where, it seems, was the era of 'real' racing, it is a procession? Do these people even listen to themselves?

I think he's more referring to the fact that last year, Monaco was a relative snoozefest.

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:

DanielPT wrote:

andrew2209 wrote:With everyone saying that Monaco is a procession, where would they be able to adjust the track to maybe create an overtaking spot?

Wait, now that we arrive at Monaco, it is a procession? Have I suddenly woke up in 2004? For 5 races now that people complain that it is confusing, hard to follow and all a bit random (all thanks to the tyres, of course), when we arrive at one of the places were they finally can have a race unlike those previous five and more like it was back in the naughties where, it seems, was the era of 'real' racing, it is a procession? Do these people even listen to themselves?

I think he's more referring to the fact that last year, Monaco was a relative snoozefest.

And isn't it a change from what the races are these days? If people saw other types of racing, they would realise what street racing is all about. And if they had followed F1 for more than a couple of seasons, they would know what Monaco is all about. Sure F1 isn't perfect, but what the bathplug is? Things can be improved over time and without much ado. Do I watch cricket just to complain how boring and pointless as a sport the whole thing is? Obviously not!

By the way, this is nothing to do with you andrew2209. I am just ranting about some folks that are out there trying to influence the future of a sport that they cannot even grasp the concept to begin with.

DanielPT wrote:And isn't it a change from what the races are these days? If people saw other types of racing, they would realise what street racing is all about. And if they had followed F1 for more than a couple of seasons, they would know what Monaco is all about. Sure F1 isn't perfect, but what the bathplug is? Things can be improved over time and without much ado. Do I watch cricket just to complain how boring and pointless as a sport the whole thing is? Obviously not!

By the way, this is nothing to do with you andrew2209. I am just ranting about some folks that are out there trying to influence the future of a sport that they cannot even grasp the concept to begin with.

Yes, I agree. The whole problem with the Tilke circuit is not that they're bad, but that they're too similar. I think it is interesting to have very different circuits in the calendar. There are narrow street circuits like Monaco and Singapore, there is Spa with very exciting high-speed corners, there's Monza with a lot of straights and the highest top speed in the calendar. And they all produce different kinds of racing. I think Formula 1 would be a lot less interesting without this variety of circuits.

pi314159 wrote:There are narrow street circuits like Monaco and Silverstone.

Silverstone's a narrow street circuit

eurobrun wrote:

pi314159 wrote:There are narrow street circuits like Monaco and Silverstone.

Silverstone's a narrow street circuit

I meant Singapore.

Does anyone think that, if the Infinti purple was painted over the entire car, and given black wings, it would look good. Nobody would've ever run a car in that shade of purple (with maybe the exception of Simtek), and it would stand out. Also, Infiniti Racing would be a great name for a racing team.

andrew2209 wrote:Does anyone think that, if the Infinti purple was painted over the entire car, and given black wings, it would look good. Nobody would've ever run a car in that shade of purple (with maybe the exception of Simtek), and it would stand out. Also, Infiniti Racing would be a great name for a racing team.

I would love to see a repeat of the Simtek livery!

What's the difference between a Third Driver, a Development Driver and a Reserve Driver? And why do you need all three, as Lotus have?

andrew2209 wrote:Does anyone think that, if the Infinti purple was painted over the entire car, and given black wings, it would look good. Nobody would've ever run a car in that shade of purple (with maybe the exception of Simtek), and it would stand out. Also, Infiniti Racing would be a great name for a racing team.

Are you kidding? This year's Red Bull is one of the sleekest machines iv'e ever seen. It puts the 1995 Simtek to shame.

Kimi-ICE wrote:

andrew2209 wrote:Does anyone think that, if the Infinti purple was painted over the entire car, and given black wings, it would look good. Nobody would've ever run a car in that shade of purple (with maybe the exception of Simtek), and it would stand out. Also, Infiniti Racing would be a great name for a racing team.

Are you kidding? This year's Red Bull is one of the sleekest machines iv'e ever seen. It puts the 1995 Simtek to shame.

That Simtek would bathpluging shank that red bull as the Simtek is a much better car

GwilymJJames wrote:What's the difference between a Third Driver, a Development Driver and a Reserve Driver? And why do you need all three, as Lotus have?

I'm assuming the only difference would be the amount of money a driver would have to cough up to get the gig.

A thought's just occurred to me:

After six races and their well-documented tyres problems, our friends at Brackley are only three points behind the team formerly known as Group Bahahahahar, and only 14 behind Ferrari. Are the tyres problems really as bad as it seems or is the latent pace of that Merc so good that it can make up that deficit?

Wizzie wrote:A thought's just occurred to me:

After six races and their well-documented tyres problems, our friends at Brackley are only three points behind the team formerly known as Group Bahahahahar, and only 14 behind Ferrari. Are the tyres problems really as bad as it seems or is the latent pace of that Merc so good that it can make up that deficit?

The recent Pirelli test might have something to do with it. Maybe, maybe not.

wsrgo wrote:

Wizzie wrote:A thought's just occurred to me:

After six races and their well-documented tyres problems, our friends at Brackley are only three points behind the team formerly known as Group Bahahahahar, and only 14 behind Ferrari. Are the tyres problems really as bad as it seems or is the latent pace of that Merc so good that it can make up that deficit?

The recent Pirelli test might have something to do with it. Maybe, maybe not.

Their performance in Monaco is probably more track specific than down to that test - Rosberg was 2nd in 2012 with a car that has similar traits to their current car, and the close confines of the track would have helped them manage their pace and their tyres more effectively than at most circuits. Bear in mind that, in the opening stint, Rosberg was at one point going so slowly that van der Garde was lapping about a second a lap faster than Rosberg, suggesting that he was really having to nurse his tyres on high fuel.
Canada might give us a better idea of where they stand - it should also be interesting to see how Hamilton responds to Rosberg's upswing in form in Canada given that Hamilton is very strong at that particular circuit (3 poles and 3 wins in the past five events). OK, that venue should also favour them a little due to its high speed nature and the strength of the Mercedes engine, but its rear limited nature should test their traction issues and it won't be easy to back the pack up thanks to the DRS zones being so powerful in Canada.

As to the comment about Mercedes and their position relative to Lotus and Ferrari, well, it is a little fortunate in some respects but perhaps owes more to the fact that Mercedes, I would argue, probably has one of the better driver line ups in the field at the moment and made fewer operational mistakes.

Alonso had a poor race in Monaco by his usual standards and in Malaysia and Bahrain the team made mistakes that cost him dearly (failing to order him in for a front wing change in Malaysia and the DRS malfunction in Bahrain), so to a certain extent that has hobbled his performance more than normal. Massa, meanwhile, has done fairly well but has also been struck by some misfortunes too, both in Bahrain and Monaco, that have cost him a reasonable number of points too.
As for Lotus, they are heavily relying on Kimi's consistency to keep their challenge afloat - Grosjean is 60 points behind Kimi and, at the moment, even Di Resta is beating Grosjean in the WDC (hell, Button, in what looks like an inferior car, is currently just a point behind Grosjean). Now, it has to be said that Grosjean hasn't always had a level playing field at Lotus - in the flyaway races, Grosjean had to use a slightly older specification car to Kimi and, generally, it does seem as if he is being treated as the second driver at that team. Still, even allowing for that, Grosjean has been a little sluggish in recent races and not really capitalised in his car, it seems.

By contrast, it does seem as if the driver line up at Mercedes is more balanced - Hamilton has generally done a solid and consistent job and, save for Spain, not finished lower than 5th, whilst Rosberg has really picked up his performance this year and is currently in very good form. Operationally, I think that they have also been a little more astute than their rivals too, which has helped them out a bit more.
Now, Mercedes are in an interesting situation in the WCC at the moment - with Grosjean underperforming and Lotus, it seems, in very poor financial shape (they have announced that their pre-tax losses were nearly £57 million in 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... ggest.html ), it does remain open to question whether Kimi can maintain his current level of performance. If Mercedes remain at a similar level of competitiveness across this season and Grosjean struggles for the rest of this season, 3rd in the WCC might not be entirely out of the question thanks to the consistency of Rosberg and Hamilton. I can't see them beating Ferrari as the performance gap seems too large and, on current form, Massa is more consistent than Grosjean and has had fairly strong form too.

http://formulawin.suredeodorant.co.uk/?WT.srch=1

Is this a creative way to find a replacement for Grosjean?

andrew2209 wrote:http://formulawin.suredeodorant.co.uk/?WT.srch=1

Is this a creative way to find a replacement for Grosjean?

No, I believe Thomas Bangalter is being lined up for his drive. He spent a lot of time hanging around the Lotus garage at Monaco last weekend.