Grand Prix Rejects

Rusujuur wrote:

Waris wrote:Another idea: what will happen for example if a driver retires, a new driver picks the old driver's number, but the next year the retired driver makes an unexpected comeback? One of them would have to switch numbers, so in that case the numbers wouldn't be as "permanently attached" to the drivers as it's made out to be.

There will probably be a cooldown period of a couple of years for any given number. That also makes sense from a different perspective - it gives the fans time to forget the previous assosiacion. Ulimately we probably have to look at Nascar and MotoGP to see how these things pan out in the long run. (I don't follow either of these, so I have no idea how they handle these matters).

By the way, I understand that currenly they will give the numbers according to WDC standings for the old drivers, but for the new, who gets first pick? Is it the one who is announced first or whose team is higher in the WCC by the end of the season or some other method?

NASCAR is weird in that despite what 95% of the fans think, a TEAM owns the numbers not the drivers. The team pays NASCAR for them each year, and can pay for more #'s then they use (unless another team challenges it). This is why when a driver changes teams he changes numbers.

andrew2209 wrote:

This wrote:Now if Susie Wolff ever gets to make her debut, i think she should pick #13 to honour the great Davina Galica!

I think she'd need #69

I'm sure is Wolff ever gets a drive Dr Baker would like to give her one.

I'm so sorry

CoopsII wrote:

andrew2209 wrote:

This wrote:Now if Susie Wolff ever gets to make her debut, i think she should pick #13 to honour the great Davina Galica!

I think she'd need #69

I'm sure is Wolff ever gets a drive Dr Baker would like to give her one.

I'm so sorry

A blonde walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre. So the bartender gives her one.

I am equally sorry.

I'm worried, i've been the start of many off-topicness lately. This either means i'm problematic or just popular. Or both.

This wrote:I'm worried, i've been the start of many off-topicness lately. This either means i'm problematic or just popular. Or both.

Nah, you're just fitting in with a normal F1 Rejects tradition. Every thread ought to go off-topic every so often...

dr-baker wrote:

This wrote:I'm worried, i've been the start of many off-topicness lately. This either means i'm problematic or just popular. Or both.

Nah, you're just fitting in with a normal F1 Rejects tradition. Every thread ought to go off-topic every so often...

Is that good or bad?

wsrgo wrote:

dr-baker wrote:

This wrote:I'm worried, i've been the start of many off-topicness lately. This either means i'm problematic or just popular. Or both.

Nah, you're just fitting in with a normal F1 Rejects tradition. Every thread ought to go off-topic every so often...

Is that good or bad?

It's amazing

This wrote:I'm worried, i've been the start of many off-topicness lately. This either means i'm problematic or just popular. Or both.

dr-baker wrote: Nah, you're just fitting in with a normal F1 Rejects tradition. Every thread ought to go off-topic every so often...

wsrgo wrote: Is that good or bad?

Dpends on how much you wish to fit in. I would say that it is great, a good opportunity to find out more about other people in a wider context. Not just talking about the same subject all the time.

dr-baker wrote:

This wrote:I'm worried, i've been the start of many off-topicness lately. This either means i'm problematic or just popular. Or both.

Nah, you're just fitting in with a normal F1 Rejects tradition. Every thread ought to go off-topic every so often...

Yeah, but in the past, usually my off-topicness didn't catch on, but now the tide has turned. Seems you guys are all victims of the most subtle spambot ever, at last!

dr-baker wrote:A blonde walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre. So the bartender gives her one.

I am equally sorry.

Originally I was going to add to the innuendo laden jokes in this thread but I didn't think there would be room to squeeze another one in.

Barbazza wrote:

dr-baker wrote:A blonde walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre. So the bartender gives her one.

I am equally sorry.

Originally I was going to add to the innuendo laden jokes in this thread but I didn't think there would be room to squeeze another one in.

You've really shafted me now - it'll be really hard for me to pull out another innuendo.

this is getting silly

This wrote:this is getting silly

You mean it wasn't to start with?

Salamander wrote:

This wrote:this is getting silly

You mean it wasn't to start with?

It's the silly season thread, that's the joke.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirel ... er-report/

ARRRGGGHHHH... I wish the steel belts were kept. Looks like the tires will be like Bridgestones again...

Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirelli-s-2014-tyres-are-slower-report/

ARRRGGGHHHH... I wish the steel belts were kept. Looks like the tires will be like Bridgestones again...

In truth, Pirelli have been warning about it for a while now. They went conservative because of the less known parameters from the engines due to the secrecy of manufacturers and the lack of testing opportunities. And it's also normal to expect it given the level of criticism thrown at them this year and all the tyre explosions that occurred.

While in November Kumho tested an F1-spec tyre over three days...could be angling themselves to secure the supply for 2015.

DanielPT wrote:

Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirelli-s-2014-tyres-are-slower-report/

ARRRGGGHHHH... I wish the steel belts were kept. Looks like the tires will be like Bridgestones again...

In truth, Pirelli have been warning about it for a while now. They went conservative because of the less known parameters from the engines due to the secrecy of manufacturers and the lack of testing opportunities. And it's also normal to expect it given the level of criticism thrown at them this year and all the tyre explosions that occurred.

indeed, that makes perfect sense. It would be irresponsible to do it in a different manner.

A typically unrestrained Eddie Irvine on the way F1 is heading....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12 ... _hp_ref=uk

For the 2014 season I can't say F1 now heading to good or bad direction, I choose to see it first then judge it. Maybe double points can be great? Let's see.
Maybe Pirelli's decision could be better? Let's see. Maybe new engine and car rules are better? Let's see. I don't really like to judge something before it's actually done.

So let's watch the 2014 with open mind

DanielPT wrote:

Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirelli-s-2014-tyres-are-slower-report/

ARRRGGGHHHH... I wish the steel belts were kept. Looks like the tires will be like Bridgestones again...

In truth, Pirelli have been warning about it for a while now. They went conservative because of the less known parameters from the engines due to the secrecy of manufacturers and the lack of testing opportunities. And it's also normal to expect it given the level of criticism thrown at them this year and all the tyre explosions that occurred.

Exactly - if anything, I would have been more surprised if they hadn't gone for a much more conservative approach given the combination of the critical press and shortage of appropriate data. That said, Button has in turn been rather vocal about expecting the cars to be much more difficult to drive - he stated that he expected the first test to be "hilarious" because they'd be turning up to a very cold track with much harder, lower grip tyres and engines that produce significantly more torque than the old V8 engines, so he's expecting plenty of wheelspin and difficulty in driving these cars.

Nico Rosberg (on Twitter) wrote:just spun at full speed 320km/h on bahrain straight cause my tyre blew up without warning.thanks to that need to get some toilet paper now..

Lets hope this is fixed before the start of the season...

EDIT: Looks like Nico's deleted that tweet now...verrrry interesting...

AustralianStig wrote:

Nico Rosberg (on Twitter) wrote:just spun at full speed 320km/h on bahrain straight cause my tyre blew up without warning.thanks to that need to get some toilet paper now..

Lets hope this is fixed before the start of the season...

EDIT: Looks like Nico's deleted that tweet now...verrrry interesting...

There wasn't much point in deleting it - even Autosport are repeating it...

dr-baker wrote:

AustralianStig wrote:

Nico Rosberg (on Twitter) wrote:just spun at full speed 320km/h on bahrain straight cause my tyre blew up without warning.thanks to that need to get some toilet paper now..

Lets hope this is fixed before the start of the season...

EDIT: Looks like Nico's deleted that tweet now...verrrry interesting...

There wasn't much point in deleting it - even Autosport are repeating it...

And these are supposedly the new, more durable tyres. Let's hope it was some sort of debris rather than a failure in the tyre construction. The FIA and the teams have soiled Pirelli's reputation enough, but Pirelli haven't exactly helped themselves.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gutie ... at-report/

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

...if even Sutil will keep constantly get the better of him, that'll be sad.

Next season is going to be one of the worst seasons IMO because there are to many crap drivers in the good seats and not enough good seats for the drivers like Hulkenberg, Frijns and Wickens to name a few

watka wrote:And these are supposedly the new, more durable tyres. Let's hope it was some sort of debris rather than a failure in the tyre construction. The FIA and the teams have soiled Pirelli's reputation enough, but Pirelli haven't exactly helped themselves.

We will see, but Pirelli's statement does leave some ambiguity over whether it was down to debris or a structural failure - they did state that the tyre Rosberg was using at the time had an experimental structure and compound type which will now be withdrawn from testing suggesting that there might have been a structural defect with the tyre. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/25449812

Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gutierrez-to-secure-second-sauber-seat-report/

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Christ on a bendy-bus, if Sauber go with a Sutil/Gutierrez lineup, it's probably their weakest and least inspiring lineup since Salo/Diniz in 2000.

East Londoner wrote:Christ on a bendy-bus, if Sauber go with a Sutil/Gutierrez lineup, it's probably their weakest and least inspiring lineup since Salo/Diniz in 2000.

Wasn't the Frentzen/Heidfeld pairing of 2003 worse? I mean both were uninspired by their dreadful machinery and were very anonymous apart from a few races. In my opinion Salo did a good job in 2000, although I'd agree with you about Diniz anyday.

good_Ralf wrote:

East Londoner wrote:Christ on a bendy-bus, if Sauber go with a Sutil/Gutierrez lineup, it's probably their weakest and least inspiring lineup since Salo/Diniz in 2000.

Wasn't the Frentzen/Heidfeld pairing of 2003 worse? I mean both were uninspired by their dreadful machinery and were very anonymous apart from a few races. In my opinion Salo did a good job in 2000, although I'd agree with you about Diniz anyday.

Woah, woah...if anything, Frentzen and Heidfeld was the best pair of drivers anyone could wish for.

Ataxia wrote:Woah, woah...if anything, Frentzen and Heidfeld was the best pair of drivers anyone could wish for.

OK, they were consistent, had a decent turn of speed and came from the same town but surely there were much faster drivers out there who could have been just as consistent. J+E often said in their late 2003 reviews that Frentzen could easily have retired early and given a youngster his seat. And of course, Frentzen and Heidfeld were virtually at the bottom of the driver rankings in the season review.

East Londoner wrote:

Cynon wrote:http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gutierrez-to-secure-second-sauber-seat-report/

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Christ on a bendy-bus, if Sauber go with a Sutil/Gutierrez lineup, it's probably their weakest and least inspiring lineup since Salo/Diniz in 2000.

I'd agree that, on balance, it is one of Sauber's weaker line ups compared to some of the drivers they have had in recent years - to be honest Gutierrez may have improved a little over the year but it is hard to justify his presence in the team on performance grounds alone.
As for Sutil, whilst he is a competent enough driver, I am not sure that I can see him leading a team and driving Sauber forward in a meaningful way given that he hasn't really done that at Force India - once again, you suspect that the financial support that Sutil had from Medion might have played some part in the decision too.

If Romain Grosjean has taught us anything, its not to write anyone off. In his first stint at what was Renault, he was slow AND crash-happy (or at least spin-happy) and now in his second stint he's one of the best drivers on the grid. Gutierrez had a terrible 2013 but I can't help but think there's some talent in there somewhere and he'll be closer to Sutil than people think.

Gutierrez did not impress me this year, but he should be a little better at least with a year of experience under his belt. But I actually think Sutil is better than people give him credit for, he beat Di Resta in 2011 and was starting to beat him again in the second half of this year. And I agree about Grosjean, I did not like him at first but he has matured a lot and became a properly good driver. I am warming to him quite a fair bit to be honest.

I don't know about this one. Gutiérrez had a few good drives, but quite honestly, I think bringing in Giedo van der Garde would have been a better bet. Esteban had 2 or 3 good races. Giedo had more than that, and was a much better driver in my opinion than Esteban. However, it took Gutiérrez almost a whole season to get to grips with the car, or if he did, he did nothing with it. If the latter is the case, Giedo is a much better bet, despite the fact that money might have a sway in the decision. If Sauber have a competitive car next year, I feel that Sutil and van der Garde would be a more consistent points scoring pair, and that would help them gain in the constructors. Based on this year, and his excuses about getting used to F1 when he should have had a good idea by the last three races tells me that next year could be bad for him as the cars will be much different. Gutiérrez may be a good driver, but if he is, I haven't seen it yet except Japan and Spain earlier this year. So, I think Sauber may regret their decision to keep on Esteban, as Giedo also gives great technical feedback, and I don't think Esteban is known very well for technical feedback.

On 20 December 2000, you would have said that Heidfeld/Räikkönen was awful, and we all know how that turned out.

It's not necessarily a weaker line-up that the one they had this year - Gutiérrez Gutiérrez should be better this year, and we don't really know how much better than Sutil is Hulkenberg. Yes, season standings say that Di Resta scored a similar number of points in 2012 and 2013, while Hulkenberg scored in 2012 more than twice the amount scored by Sutil, but Sutil lost a lot of points this year because of misfortune. And we know that the environment does play a role: Hulkenberg was beaten by Barrichello in 2010, while Maldonado was pretty much the equal of the Brazilian in 2011, and I don't see people asking for Maldonado to join a big team ASAP...

Ferrim wrote:On 20 December 2000, you would have said that Heidfeld/Räikkönen was awful, and we all know how that turned out.

Not really. It's not a fair comaprison. Heidfeld was a previous F3000 champion, backed by McLaren, and the other guy, while a very inexperienced rookie, had destroyed everyone in Formula Renault.

All Gutierrez has in his repetoire is a wad of cash. OK, he was GP3 champion back in 2010, but, there's never been any demonstartion of some kind of immense talent like, say, Magnussen or Vandoorne has done. And Raikkonen did in 2000. And yes, some junior superstars stumble at the final hurdle (Jan Magnussen), but it's not what I'd consider a common occurence.

Had he not stuffed his GP2 campaign this year by only finishing well at one track, Robin Frijns probably should have been in line for the seat. But he didn't deliver after winning FR3.5 in his debut year. He has won everything he has raced before GP2 though, he needs a full season including pre-season testing in something to get his career back on track.

Gutierrez getting a 2nd season I suppose is fair enough to give him a chance, but I still think it's terrible that the Glass Of Milk hasn't got a seat. Yes I might be in the minority there.

Though there's always someone every silly season that you're annoyed misses out - last year it was Kobayashi, the year before it was Barrichello/Alguersuari, and there are many more in other years.

To be fair about Robin Frigns it wasnt his fault he didnt last the whole GP2 season, sure he wouldnt have won it but he prob needed a 2nd season, but he couldnt because of his budget.
While other drivers like Ceccotto get YDT drives.