Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **22 Apr 2012, 03:33**

Well, congrats to Østberg, however. They keep digging a hole for themselves in Norway (at least for everyone that's neutral, or dislikes them).
Pretty often they go out in the media, complaining about all the disadvantages about being a privateer. How everything would've been so much easier, if they just could be in a factory team.
And then, they follow that up, with saying they didn't want to be the replacement for Latvala. They would then most likely be the second driver in the team. And that was not interesting. If they would give up the private team. They had to be the lead driver. So, I guess they'll complain about costs, and not having a ride for a factory team again after next race...

Posted: **22 Apr 2012, 03:42**

WHY? Østberg, you fool, who cares if you are number two for ONE DAMN EVENT. You would have saved 20% of the Adapta budget by skipping Argentina with your own team and going with Ford WRT. That was foolish.

Although I guess Sordo is well used to being a number two driver

Posted: **22 Apr 2012, 10:05**

kostas22 wrote:I'm surprised Prodrive allowed Sordo to jump ship, even temporarily. Interestingly, Eliseo Salazar will be the only driver in a Prodrive Mini for Argentina

Elsewhere, it is the Rally 1000 Miglia this weekend, and ERC round with works Proton SWRC driver Giandomenico Basso and works Skoda IRC driver Juho Hanninen competing along with Italian rally legend Paolo Andreucci.

Prodrive are not officially attending the Argentinian rally - Salazar will be running a Prodrive prepared car, that is true, but he has entered the car privately rather than with factory support. In fact, Prodrive intend to skip the following round in Greece as well - they won't return until the New Zealand rally, whilst at the moment they have only confirmed that they will enter the British and German events (though they are looking for funding to attend other events later this year). http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98911

So, given that Sordo would be missing the event anyway, Prodrive has said that they do not object if he takes Latvala's place as it keeps Sordo "race ready", as it were. Mind you, as Pieman points out, where has happened to Kris Meeke? Given the unceremonious way that he was hung out to dry, it would have been nice to see him back in the mix.

Posted: **27 Apr 2012, 22:22**

Solberg has had to park it, after he bent a steering arm.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99198

Meaning a little-known rally driver by the name of Sebastian Loeb takes the lead of the rally :roll:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99193

Posted: **27 Apr 2012, 22:36**

As usual, Solberg has zero luck. This was his rally, this was the pivotal point in his bid for the championship. If he won, he would become the #1 driver at Ford, his confidence would be back after such a long long LONG winless streak, we would finally see the old Petter back. This is not going to help his mentality at all, just when it seemed he had all the right cards in his hands it came crashing down.

And now, Citroen will dominate. :cry:

Posted: **27 Apr 2012, 22:44**

kostas22 wrote:And now, Citroen will dominate.

Correction: Loeb will dominate. Hirvonen probably won't be allowed to win unless Loeb somehow throws it into a nearby tree.

Posted: **27 Apr 2012, 23:04**

East Londoner wrote:Solberg has had to park it, after he bent a steering arm.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99198

Meaning a little-known rally driver by the name of Sebastian Loeb takes the lead of the rally

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99193

Loeb? What a strange name! Never heard of him! :roll:

Posted: **30 Apr 2012, 16:38**

Take a guess who won in Argentina

Posted: **30 Apr 2012, 16:39**

East Londoner wrote:Take a guess who won in Argentina

Shame it wasn't the guy that came in about 12th, Eliseo Salazar...

Posted: **30 Apr 2012, 16:49**

Wizzie wrote:
kostas22 wrote:And now, Citroen will dominate.

Correction: Loeb will dominate. Hirvonen probably won't be allowed to win unless Loeb somehow throws it into a nearby tree.

You got that right - once the team told Hirvonen to hold station (which they did pretty quickly), and with the field so strung out, the main interest was how far those under the Super Rally regulations could recover to. It looks like Hirvonen is finding out what life as the No. 2 Citroen driver is like...

Posted: **30 Apr 2012, 17:00**

I stopped caring when Solberg broke his steering. Not his fault, just unlucky there was a boulder on the racing line in the ruts. Not his fault. Ditto Sordo's Fiesta RS dying on the power stage. Drivers not to blame, just a combo of back luck and bad reliability. I don't see Citroen losing their grip on the championship now, Ford are in shambles at the moment.

Posted: **02 May 2012, 11:21**

kostas22 wrote:I stopped caring when Solberg broke his steering. Not his fault, just unlucky there was a boulder on the racing line in the ruts. Not his fault. Ditto Sordo's Fiesta RS dying on the power stage. Drivers not to blame, just a combo of back luck and bad reliability. I don't see Citroen losing their grip on the championship now, Ford are in shambles at the moment.

Ford is lasting much longer than expected in the WRC. Losing the title to Citroen all those years must be take its toll one day.

Posted: **02 May 2012, 13:26**

DanielPT wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I stopped caring when Solberg broke his steering. Not his fault, just unlucky there was a boulder on the racing line in the ruts. Not his fault. Ditto Sordo's Fiesta RS dying on the power stage. Drivers not to blame, just a combo of back luck and bad reliability. I don't see Citroen losing their grip on the championship now, Ford are in shambles at the moment.

Ford is lasting much longer than expected in the WRC. Losing the title to Citroen all those years must be take its toll one day.

It almost did this year, it took a very long time for M-Sport to have their contract with Ford renewed for this year, losing their main backer Abu Dhabi Tourist Board in the process, plus BP on top of that. Not having a title sponsor may hurt them. I would blame Malcolm Wilson for all the bad decisions made over the years, he's not aquitted himself well at all despite having over a decade of experience as a Team Manager now. It's amazing they won everything at all with his piss poor decision making - the only good decision he ever made worked out, hiring Gronholm when Peugeot went for the exit.

Posted: **12 May 2012, 17:08**

Dani Sordo has won the Tour de Corse.

I would say this is a landmark victory for him, but, considering Pierre Campana finished third, I would have to question the quality of the rest of the field.

Posted: **15 May 2012, 22:10**

The Skodas were on fire at Tour De Corse last week. Quite literally....

Posted: **25 May 2012, 23:01**

What the bathplug is going on? It's almost as if the entire field has imploded behind the two works teams.

Posted: **26 May 2012, 00:22**

This isn't going to end well :lol:

Posted: **26 May 2012, 01:42**

kostas22 wrote:This isn't going to end well

Posted: **26 May 2012, 13:35**

kostas22 wrote:This isn't going to end well

Win-or-bust? Isn't that what he does anyway?

Posted: **26 May 2012, 21:57**

He didn't write off the car, but he did pick up a puncture, and now he's over 4 minutes off the lead.

And, just to demonstrate how sorry a state the sport is in these days, that means he drops all the way down to the lowly position of...4th.

Posted: **27 May 2012, 07:16**

I have some good news and bad news.

The good news is one of the works Fords has crashed out. The bad news is it's Petter Solberg.

Posted: **27 May 2012, 13:13**

Status quo remains. Loeb wins, Citroen 1-2. Meh.

This also means, Mads Ostberg is still ahead of both works Fords in the WDC. Citroen are going to wipe the floor with the blue oval this year...

Posted: **28 May 2012, 12:08**

Wizzie wrote:I have some good news and bad news.

The good news is one of the works Fords has crashed out. The bad news is it's Petter Solberg.

Crashing while chasing Loeb? Isn't that becoming a bit usual for the blue oval drivers?

This championship is no more, really...

Posted: **28 May 2012, 16:17**

DanielPT wrote:
Wizzie wrote:I have some good news and bad news.

The good news is one of the works Fords has crashed out. The bad news is it's Petter Solberg.

Crashing while chasing Loeb? Isn't that becoming a bit usual for the blue oval drivers?

This championship is no more, really...

Half-way through my first undergrad degree course, Sebastian Loeb began his domination of WRC. A third of the way through my second undergrad degree course (which I began 6 years after completing my first), Sebastian Loeb continues his domination relentlessly, winning every championship inbetween (despite having broken an arm and missing quarter of a season in the meantime). I will have little genuine interest in the WRC until Mini sort their act out and/or Loeb retires. For good.

Posted: **28 May 2012, 22:25**

At this rate I don't think Sebastien Loeb is ever going to retire. The man is a machine :shock:

2001 was an incredible year for WRC, it is to my mind the golden generation of rallying which will never be surpassed. It had so many great drivers it was hard to believe.

Marcus Gronholm, Didier Auriol, Carlos Sainz, Colin McRae, Tommi Mäkinen, Richard Burns, Petter Solberg, Kenneth Eriksson, Sebastien Loeb. Plus cameos from Stig Blomqvist and Juha Kankkunen. At some point during 2001, TEN past or future world champions competed in the WRC. I don't see how the sport can ever surpass that.

To exemplify this even more - François Delecour was the Ford 3rd driver in 2001. By then he hadn't won a WRC event for six years. He never won again. Yet, this year in the Monte Carlo, he was going as fast as the young guys like Ott Tanak and Evgeny Novikov in the same car. He was 49 YEARS OLD in that rally. And he was up there with the genuine speed to be 'best of the rest' behind the works cars. And Freddy Loix in IRC, he has wins in that series, even though he was almost completely hopeless for Mitsubishi in the WRC that year.

The current crop of drivers are just poor, end of. Dani Sordo as an all-rounder is average at best, yet he's consistently been the only driver anywhere near Loeb overall (both Fords have been faster but far too erratic to count). He's even had the measure of Hirvonen. No doubt, Dani is a great sealed surface driver, but he's just a run-of-the-mill gravel driver.

The sport is in a huge rut right now, and I'm not sure they can find enough traction to drive out of it.

Posted: **28 May 2012, 22:32**

kostas22 wrote:Marcus Gronholm, Didier Auriol, Carlos Sainz, Colin McRae, Tommi Mäkinen, Richard Burns, Petter Solberg, Kenneth Eriksson, Sebastien Loeb. Plus cameos from Stig Blomqvist and Juha Kankkunen. At some point during 2001, TEN past or future world champions competed in the WRC. I don't see how the sport can ever surpass that.

To exemplify this even more - François Delecour was the Ford 3rd driver in 2001. By then he hadn't won a WRC event for six years. He never won again. Yet, this year in the Monte Carlo, he was going as fast as the young guys like Ott Tanak and Evgeny Novikov in the same car. He was 49 YEARS OLD in that rally. And he was up there with the genuine speed to be 'best of the rest' behind the works cars. And Freddy Loix in IRC, he has wins in that series, even though he was almost completely hopeless for Mitsubishi in the WRC that year.

It was around this time that I was most interested in the WRC - you also had many manufacturers in the sport around this time: Ford, Peugeot, Skoda, Subaru, Mitsubishi, et al. I followed it until around 2005, when it was clear Loeb was beginning to dominate, plus many manufacturers were leaving. It did not help either that the channel which the coverage could be found on in the UK kept changing, and the time of day/week also varied. So I just gave up. And there is little to attract me back, save for Mini, and even then their early promise has faded as quickly as BMW's support of the team. Who could envisage Mini competing for a podium on genuine pace now? Yet in Jaunuary, their podium strike rate was 50%!

Posted: **28 May 2012, 22:44**

kostas22 wrote:At this rate I don't think Sebastien Loeb is ever going to retire. The man is a machine
2001 was an incredible year for WRC, it is to my mind the golden generation of rallying which will never be surpassed. It had so many great drivers it was hard to believe.

Marcus Gronholm, Didier Auriol, Carlos Sainz, Colin McRae, Tommi Mäkinen, Richard Burns, Petter Solberg, Kenneth Eriksson, Sebastien Loeb. Plus cameos from Stig Blomqvist and Juha Kankkunen. At some point during 2001, TEN past or future world champions competed in the WRC. I don't see how the sport can ever surpass that.

At this rate, in many years, you will find an old but still formidably fast Loeb annihilating the field and old spectactors who tell tales (by then myths) to their grandchildren about the times WRC when had more than 1 champion...

Posted: **29 May 2012, 18:32**

DanielPT wrote:
kostas22 wrote:At this rate I don't think Sebastien Loeb is ever going to retire. The man is a machine
2001 was an incredible year for WRC, it is to my mind the golden generation of rallying which will never be surpassed. It had so many great drivers it was hard to believe.

Marcus Gronholm, Didier Auriol, Carlos Sainz, Colin McRae, Tommi Mäkinen, Richard Burns, Petter Solberg, Kenneth Eriksson, Sebastien Loeb. Plus cameos from Stig Blomqvist and Juha Kankkunen. At some point during 2001, TEN past or future world champions competed in the WRC. I don't see how the sport can ever surpass that.

At this rate, in many years, you will find an old but still formidably fast Loeb annihilating the field and old spectactors who tell tales (by then myths) to their grandchildren about the times WRC when had more than 1 champion...

Maybe, but then again maybe not - the FIA are currently looking at bringing back "endurance rallies" (similar in style to the events that used to be held in the Ivory Coast), but Loeb is not keen on the idea and has said that he would probably prefer to retire if those changes were made. If the FIA do press ahead with those changes - and so far it looks like they will - then we might be seeing Loeb retire sooner rather than later...

Posted: **29 May 2012, 18:52**

mario wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
kostas22 wrote:At this rate I don't think Sebastien Loeb is ever going to retire. The man is a machine
2001 was an incredible year for WRC, it is to my mind the golden generation of rallying which will never be surpassed. It had so many great drivers it was hard to believe.

Marcus Gronholm, Didier Auriol, Carlos Sainz, Colin McRae, Tommi Mäkinen, Richard Burns, Petter Solberg, Kenneth Eriksson, Sebastien Loeb. Plus cameos from Stig Blomqvist and Juha Kankkunen. At some point during 2001, TEN past or future world champions competed in the WRC. I don't see how the sport can ever surpass that.

At this rate, in many years, you will find an old but still formidably fast Loeb annihilating the field and old spectactors who tell tales (by then myths) to their grandchildren about the times WRC when had more than 1 champion...

Maybe, but then again maybe not - the FIA are currently looking at bringing back "endurance rallies" (similar in style to the events that used to be held in the Ivory Coast), but Loeb is not keen on the idea and has said that he would probably prefer to retire if those changes were made. If the FIA do press ahead with those changes - and so far it looks like they will - then we might be seeing Loeb retire sooner rather than later...

And it won't be a moment too soon. Getting rid of the Safari Rally from the WRC in my mind is like getting rid of the Italian or British GPs (I would say equivalent to the Monaco GP but the Rally Monte Carlo is that equivalent). There should be an endurance element to any World championship - it should be a challenge, it should not be easy. And the sooner that there is a genuine fight for the WRC title, the better. Loeb has already proved that he can break his arm, miss a quarter of the season and still win the title, something that not even the dominant Schumi could do.

Posted: **29 May 2012, 19:33**

I agree with that, I think rallying has been all the poorer since the Safari Rally was taken off the calender. Bringing that back will go some way to restoring the championship's appeal to audiences, as well as the endurance rallies which will test the drivers and machinery far more, thus earning those who do succeed far more respect and admiration. I really hope the FIA don't shy away from making these changes, because they really are needed in my opinion.

Posted: **29 May 2012, 19:49**

dr-baker wrote:Loeb has already proved that he can break his arm, miss a quarter of the season and still win the title, something that not even the dominant Schumi could do.

Then again, the one year Schumi did have an injury, his car wasn't leaps and bounds ahead of everybody else.

Posted: **29 May 2012, 21:05**

I agree that the Safari Rally was a legendary rally and deserves a place on the calendar, but this new full-on focus on endurance rallies may be unwise - this is the WRC, not Rally Dakar. Some rallies should still retain their modern lengths.

Let's just have a game then; what would be your ideal 12 round WRC calendar? (Using any past or present event)

Monte Carlo
Sweden
Portugal
Safari
Acropolis
1000 Lakes
Argentina
New Zealand
Australia (Perth)
Sanremo
Corsica
RAC Rally

Posted: **29 May 2012, 21:31**

An ideal calendar? Musts:

Monte Carlo
Finland
Acropolis
Safari
New Zealand
Germany
Rally GB (which is mostly mud/gravel, but which also includes asphalt stages like the Great Orme. Why the WRC teams can't put up with mixed surface rallies beats me.)
Plus one in America (perhaps the Hundred Acre Rally, because it always makes me think of Winnie-the-Pooh!)
Perhaps Argentina?

Any others I am not so bothered about, but these are ones that could not be left out of my WRC calendar. Oh, and Monte always as the season opener, GB always as the season closer!

Posted: **29 May 2012, 21:41**

dr-baker wrote:An ideal calendar? Musts:

Monte Carlo
Acropolis
Safari
New Zealand
Germany
Rally GB (which is mostly mud/gravel, but which also includes asphalt stages like the Great Orme. Why the WRC teams can't put up with mixed surface rallies beats me.)
Plus one in America (perhaps the Hundred Acre Rally, because it always makes me think of Winnie-the-Pooh!)
Perhaps Argentina?

Any others I am not so bothered about, but these are ones that could not be left out of my WRC calendar. Oh, and Monte always as the season opener, GB always as the season closer!

Finland isn't a must?

......................................

I'm speechless.

Posted: **29 May 2012, 21:56**

kostas22 wrote:
dr-baker wrote:An ideal calendar? Musts:

Monte Carlo
Finland
Acropolis
Safari
New Zealand
Germany
Rally GB (which is mostly mud/gravel, but which also includes asphalt stages like the Great Orme. Why the WRC teams can't put up with mixed surface rallies beats me.)
Plus one in America (perhaps the Hundred Acre Rally, because it always makes me think of Winnie-the-Pooh!)
Perhaps Argentina?

Any others I am not so bothered about, but these are ones that could not be left out of my WRC calendar. Oh, and Monte always as the season opener, GB always as the season closer!

Finland isn't a must?

......................................

I'm speechless.

What do you mean? Of course it too is a must! Can't you see that I agree with you?

How could I have forgotten? Rushed it I suppose... Sweeden too ought to be on my list. That's 10 now...

Posted: **29 May 2012, 22:17**

I personally think the best calenders were the ones which didn't have just loads of names of "Rally [insert country name here]" :lol:

I loved the different and unusual names, I think it gives the events far more character. This probably has something to do with a giant poster I used to have on my wall which listed previous rally winners, I think it was a Pirelli poster but it's been long gone for years now and obviously all the classics were on there and these days seeing 'Rally this' and 'Rally that' is quite sad when there's such a rich history to draw on.

So for me, I'd love to see a calender that included Finland (renamed to 1000 Lakes), Greece (Acropolis), France (Tour de Corse) and the Safari Rally, as well as the other stalwarts like Monte Carlo, Sweden and Britain. That's seven, but only covers two continents, so I'd also like to see at least one of Australia/New Zealand, maybe even both, as well as Argentina. I think there needs to be at least one in Asia as well, but I'm not sure on the location. Somewhere like Indonesia perhaps, or maybe a new country such as India? That might help boost the championship with the huge market India provides. In the same vein, I'd like to see a rally in North America, so either Canada or the US - maybe the Olympus Rally?

So to summarise that waffling:

Monte Carlo Rally
Rally Sweden
Safari Rally
Acropolis Rally
1000 Lakes Rally
Rally Argentina
Rally New Zealand/Rally Australia
Rally Indonesia/Indian Rally
Olympus Rally
Tour de Corse
Rally GB

Maybe throw in Italy and Portugal once every so often too!

Posted: **30 May 2012, 11:31**

kostas22 wrote:I agree that the Safari Rally was a legendary rally and deserves a place on the calendar, but this new full-on focus on endurance rallies may be unwise - this is the WRC, not Rally Dakar. Some rallies should still retain their modern lengths.

Let's just have a game then; what would be your ideal 12 round WRC calendar? (Using any past or present event)

Monte Carlo
Sweden
Portugal
Safari
Acropolis
1000 Lakes
Argentina
New Zealand
Australia (Perth)
Sanremo
Corsica
RAC Rally

This. But the Safari Rally should maintain its endurance focus because it is a different event to all the others.

Posted: **30 May 2012, 12:41**

DanielPT wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I agree that the Safari Rally was a legendary rally and deserves a place on the calendar, but this new full-on focus on endurance rallies may be unwise - this is the WRC, not Rally Dakar. Some rallies should still retain their modern lengths.

Let's just have a game then; what would be your ideal 12 round WRC calendar? (Using any past or present event)

Monte Carlo
Sweden
Portugal
Safari
Acropolis
1000 Lakes
Argentina
New Zealand
Australia (Perth)
Sanremo
Corsica
RAC Rally

This. But the Safari Rally should maintain its endurance focus because it is a different event to all the others.

Oh, also, there are some finer points that MUST be included in that calendar;

Monte Carlo must ALWAYS go over the Col du Turini
The Safari must ALWAYS be an endurance rally - although perhaps Kenya can rotate with Cote d'Ivorie if the political situation there resolves itself
The 1000 Lakes MUST always include the FULL LENGTH Ouninpohja stage. ALWAYS.
Portugal must ALWAYS have Fafe.
New Zealand Rally must always be based out of Auckland.
Rally Australia must always include the Bunnings stage.
RAC Rally must always finish with the Margam Park stage.

Posted: **30 May 2012, 14:24**

kostas22 wrote:Portugal must ALWAYS have Fafe.

Specially because it is not that far away from where I live!

Posted: **30 May 2012, 14:52**

By the way, another nail in WRC's coffin:

WRC loses Nokia deal.

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