Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 22:48**

Dark77 wrote:I don't like how IndyCar is having fewer and fewer oval races.

Road courses > ovals

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 23:42**

apple2009 wrote:
Dark77 wrote:I don't like how IndyCar is having fewer and fewer oval races.

Road courses > ovals

People not dying > ovals

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 23:55**

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:People not dying > ovals

They didn't learn the NASCAR lesson about keeping the cars on the ground until Wheldon died when NASCAR learned it with the barrel roll outbreak of the early 1990s.

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 23:57**

Onxy Wrecked wrote:They didn't learn the NASCAR lesson about keeping the cars on the ground until Wheldon died when NASCAR learned it with the barrel roll outbreak of the early 1990s.

Mike Conway's 2010 crash was a warning.

Thing is, IndyCar can't get rid of Indy, it just can't, unless it's given to a new series. So it would be a bit odd if in the future Indy was the only oval race on the calender which is where it seems to be heading, and ironic since the IRL was originally ovals only.

Posted: **05 Sep 2013, 09:22**

I think Robin Frijns has an attitude problem, and it's getting in the way of his GP2 season, and also making his F1 chances murkier by the minute.

Posted: **05 Sep 2013, 10:03**

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:People not dying > ovals

People can also die at a road race. :roll:

The relatively high number of oval deaths in the last years just come from the horribly-designed IRL cars. From the beginning of the IRL, the cars didn't have the ground effect of the CART IndyCars. To make up the lost ground effect, teams ran relatively high downforce on ovals. However, once you lose the downforce, it spells disaster. The high downforce also encouraged pack racing, most infamously at tracks like Las Vegas.

IndyCar definitely needs more oval racing, because that's what made it great in the 90's. A balanced mix between traditional road courses and high-speed ovals. Oh, and get rid off most street courses.

Posted: **05 Sep 2013, 21:40**

wsrgo wrote:I think Robin Frijns has an attitude problem, and it's getting in the way of his GP2 season, and also making his F1 chances murkier by the minute.

Part of me says that, part of me doesn't.

Posted: **05 Sep 2013, 23:31**

Dark77 wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:They didn't learn the NASCAR lesson about keeping the cars on the ground until Wheldon died when NASCAR learned it with the barrel roll outbreak of the early 1990s.
Mike Conway's 2010 crash was a warning.

Thing is, IndyCar can't get rid of Indy, it just can't, unless it's given to a new series. So it would be a bit odd if in the future Indy was the only oval race on the calender which is where it seems to be heading, and ironic since the IRL was originally ovals only.

I suspect the cars need something to discourage pack racing... maybe less downforce as to make them slow down in the corners.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 10:13**

Juan Pablo Montoya should get an IndyCar seat next year.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 10:21**

good_Ralf wrote:Juan Pablo Montoya should get an IndyCar seat next year.

Not unpopular in my opinion...

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 14:30**

Here is one opinion of mine:

NASCAR should open up to more manufacturers as what is running right now is a bit hypocritical. I remember when the Toyota Camry was first introduced in NASCAR people were bellyaching that there was a Japanese car (despite it being built in the United States) in an organization that was only for American manufacturers. Now, we have the Holden Commodore racing (as the Chevy SS), which as far as I know, is imported to the US rather than built in the US. If Chevy can get away with running a non US built car, there should be more manufacturer involvement. I would love to see Nissan, for instance, enter Nascar. Conversely, they can switch back to the Impala, which is built in the US but really less suited for Nascar than the Commodore/SS is.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 15:46**

dr-baker wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Juan Pablo Montoya should get an IndyCar seat next year.

Not unpopular in my opinion...

Or mine. If he gets a seat at Andretti, he'll clean up.

Dan B wrote:Here is one opinion of mine:

NASCAR should open up to more manufacturers as what is running right now is a bit hypocritical. I remember when the Toyota Camry was first introduced in NASCAR people were bellyaching that there was a Japanese car (despite it being ASSEMBLED in the United States) in an organization that was only for American manufacturers. Now, we have the Holden Commodore racing (as the Chevy SS), which as far as I know, is imported to the US rather than built in the US. If Chevy can get away with running a non US built car, there should be more manufacturer involvement. I would love to see Nissan, for instance, enter Nascar. Conversely, they can switch back to the Impala, which is built in the US but really less suited for Nascar than the Commodore/SS is.

I'm sorry but this is one of my big pet peeves. The camry is NOT built in America. it is ASSEMBLED in America. If you bought a model kit that says on it "Made in Hong Kong" and assembled it here, is it Made in America? Of course not. The Camry is no different. Otherwise, I agree with you. NASCAR needs more makes. Hyundai of all people almost came in when they first launched they're 5.0 V8, but nobody wanted to be their team, and they didn't want to run it themselves. VW has also talked about it, but until the engine regs change, IE never, they won't join up.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 17:19**

Moto GP is a stupid name. They should either call it something that has the word 'bike' in it or at least use proper words.

Formul 1 :roll:

Indyca

NASCA

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 17:58**

Wallio wrote:I'm sorry but this is one of my big pet peeves. The camry is NOT built in America. it is ASSEMBLED in America. If you bought a model kit that says on it "Made in Hong Kong" and assembled it here, is it Made in America? Of course not. The Camry is no different. Otherwise, I agree with you. NASCAR needs more makes. Hyundai of all people almost came in when they first launched they're 5.0 V8, but nobody wanted to be their team, and they didn't want to run it themselves. VW has also talked about it, but until the engine regs change, IE never, they won't join up.

I'll be honest though; the Camry right now is more "American" than the SS is, even if it's assembled. Which begs to question, why was the SS allowed in the first place?

Don't get me wrong; the SS is a great platform for Chevy's interest in Nascar, but it seems so contradictory to what was previously there.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 18:02**

Dan B wrote:
Wallio wrote:I'm sorry but this is one of my big pet peeves. The camry is NOT built in America. it is ASSEMBLED in America. If you bought a model kit that says on it "Made in Hong Kong" and assembled it here, is it Made in America? Of course not. The Camry is no different. Otherwise, I agree with you. NASCAR needs more makes. Hyundai of all people almost came in when they first launched they're 5.0 V8, but nobody wanted to be their team, and they didn't want to run it themselves. VW has also talked about it, but until the engine regs change, IE never, they won't join up.

I'll be honest though; the Camry right now is more "American" than the SS is, even if it's assembled. Which begs to question, why was the SS allowed in the first place?

Don't get me wrong; the SS is a great platform for Chevy's interest in Nascar, but it seems so contradictory to what was previously there.

Simple: GM is bound and determined to sell Holden Commedores here one way or the other. First they had the FauxGTO, then the G8, now the SS and soon..... this monstrousity:

http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&rls=c ... =131&ty=57

Ford is scaling back Aussie operations and moving the Mustang Worldwide. GM is continuing to ram the Holden down our throats. One is the number one car maker in America again, the other still is paying back the bailout. Coincidence?

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 18:15**

Wallio wrote:
Simple: GM is bound and determined to sell Holden Commedores here one way or the other. First they had the FauxGTO, then the G8, now the SS and soon..... this monstrousity:

http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&rls=c ... =131&ty=57

Ford is scaling back Aussie operations and moving the Mustang Worldwide. GM is continuing to ram the Holden down our throats. One is the number one car maker in America again, the other still is paying back the bailout. Coincidence?

I think the Holden being crammed down our throats is more about keeping chassis development costs to a minimum.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 18:16**

CoopsII wrote:Moto GP is a stupid name. They should either call it something that has the word 'bike' in it or at least use proper words.

Formul 1

Indyca

NASCA

iirc 'Moto' is a Spanish word for Motorbike. And there is much of spaniardness in MotoGP.

Whole world isn't in English yet.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 18:17**

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Wallio wrote:
Simple: GM is bound and determined to sell Holden Commedores here one way or the other. First they had the FauxGTO, then the G8, now the SS and soon..... this monstrousity:

http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&rls=c ... =131&ty=57

Ford is scaling back Aussie operations and moving the Mustang Worldwide. GM is continuing to ram the Holden down our throats. One is the number one car maker in America again, the other still is paying back the bailout. Coincidence?

I think the Holden being crammed down our throats is more about keeping chassis development costs to a minimum.

Oh I'm sure it is. It still doesn't make it any less of a failure.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 19:48**

Wallio wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Wallio wrote:
Simple: GM is bound and determined to sell Holden Commedores here one way or the other. First they had the FauxGTO, then the G8, now the SS and soon..... this monstrousity:

http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&rls=c ... =131&ty=57

Ford is scaling back Aussie operations and moving the Mustang Worldwide. GM is continuing to ram the Holden down our throats. One is the number one car maker in America again, the other still is paying back the bailout. Coincidence?

I think the Holden being crammed down our throats is more about keeping chassis development costs to a minimum.

Oh I'm sure it is. It still doesn't make it any less of a failure.

I guess that makes sense. Personally I don't mind the Commodore being sold here and raced in Nascar, but I just find it ironic that a car that isn't built in the USA is racing in an organization that races cars that are meant to be built in the USA.

Which is why I say remove that rule and open up to more manufacturers.

I'd love to see homologation rules being implemented but I don't see that happening ever.

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 19:48**

giraurd wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Moto GP is a stupid name. They should either call it something that has the word 'bike' in it or at least use proper words.

Formul 1

Indyca

NASCA

iirc 'Moto' is a Spanish word for Motorbike. And there is much of spaniardness in MotoGP.

Whole world isn't in English yet.

I'm not sure which one it's named after, but "Moto" is also the diminutive form of the word "motorbike" (or "motocyclette") in French...

Posted: **07 Sep 2013, 20:49**

Dan B wrote:
Wallio wrote:I'm sorry but this is one of my big pet peeves. The camry is NOT built in America. it is ASSEMBLED in America. If you bought a model kit that says on it "Made in Hong Kong" and assembled it here, is it Made in America? Of course not. The Camry is no different. Otherwise, I agree with you. NASCAR needs more makes. Hyundai of all people almost came in when they first launched they're 5.0 V8, but nobody wanted to be their team, and they didn't want to run it themselves. VW has also talked about it, but until the engine regs change, IE never, they won't join up.

I'll be honest though; the Camry right now is more "American" than the SS is, even if it's assembled. Which begs to question, why was the SS allowed in the first place?

Don't get me wrong; the SS is a great platform for Chevy's interest in Nascar, but it seems so contradictory to what was previously there.

As an aside, it does kind of sum up how things have gone for the American car industry that, these days, Toyota is the only manufacturer that can claim to have a car entirely produced in the US (not just in terms of the components being manufactured in the US, but also in terms of the materials for those components being sourced from within US borders too).

Posted: **08 Sep 2013, 01:58**

tommykl wrote:
giraurd wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Moto GP is a stupid name. They should either call it something that has the word 'bike' in it or at least use proper words.

Formul 1

Indyca

NASCA

iirc 'Moto' is a Spanish word for Motorbike. And there is much of spaniardness in MotoGP.

Whole world isn't in English yet.

I'm not sure which one it's named after, but "Moto" is also the diminutive form of the word "motorbike" (or "motocyclette") in French...

Also dialect version of motor in Dutch. So it makes sense. I'd still prefer if they'd called it Mötörhead GP instead.

Posted: **08 Sep 2013, 02:21**

The IndyCar commentators in the US are excellent.

Posted: **08 Sep 2013, 09:10**

tommykl wrote:
giraurd wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Moto GP is a stupid name. They should either call it something that has the word 'bike' in it or at least use proper words.

Formul 1

Indyca

NASCA

iirc 'Moto' is a Spanish word for Motorbike. And there is much of spaniardness in MotoGP.

Whole world isn't in English yet.

I'm not sure which one it's named after, but "Moto" is also the diminutive form of the word "motorbike" (or "motocyclette") in French...

Posted: **11 Sep 2013, 02:01**

giraurd wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Moto GP is a stupid name. They should either call it something that has the word 'bike' in it or at least use proper words.

Formul 1

Indyca

NASCA

iirc 'Moto' is a Spanish word for Motorbike. And there is much of spaniardness in MotoGP.

Whole world isn't in English yet.

My opinion exactly. And the whole world will never be English.

Posted: **11 Sep 2013, 07:09**

go_Rubens wrote:And the whole world will never be English.

You think?

Posted: **11 Sep 2013, 16:03**

I don't give a Bathplug about Formula E.

Posted: **11 Sep 2013, 17:04**

Wallio wrote:I don't give a Bathplug about Formula E.

We'll have to wait a year for the first race to conclusively decide whether it's to be cared about.

Posted: **11 Sep 2013, 17:47**

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
Wallio wrote:I don't give a Bathplug about Formula E.

We'll have to wait a year for the first race to conclusively decide whether it's to be cared about.

i belive that the fatal flaw with the series is that the costs will be to high with each drive needing 2 cars for just the race.

Posted: **12 Sep 2013, 11:33**

roblomas52 wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
Wallio wrote:I don't give a Bathplug about Formula E.

We'll have to wait a year for the first race to conclusively decide whether it's to be cared about.

i belive that the fatal flaw with the series is that the costs will be to high with each drive needing 2 cars for just the race.

The BBC's article on the series reports that there will be a budget cap of €2.5 million a year, indicating that, for the short term at least, there might be some subsidies or other means of suppressing costs to get the series up and running. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24053853
Overall, whilst it is true that Formula E is unlikely to be a cheap series, it is not too bad when compared to some other series. A single Formula Renault 3.5 car would set you back at least €200,000, whilst the purchase price of a GT3 spec Ferrari 458 Italia is €350,000, excluding VAT charges. Even one of the cheaper cars in the series - the GT3 spec Porsche 911 - will still set you back nearly €305,000 pre-tax.
A privateer outfit like Proton Competition, which runs two 911's (one in the GT Pro and another in the GT Am class) is going to be spending about €730,000, once taxes have been levied, just on their cars, whilst your typical FR 3.5 team has to pay at least €400,000 up front just to get their cars too. Add in all of the operating expenses for the team, and I would expect that your average outfit in something like FR 3.5 or the Blancplain series is probably spending €2-3 million a year, so Formula E is unlikely to be that expensive compared to some other series.

Posted: **13 Sep 2013, 05:22**

WTCC isn't the worst thing ever.

Posted: **13 Sep 2013, 10:12**

Dark77 wrote:WTCC isn't the worst thing ever.

That is true. It has a Chilton as a race winner!

Posted: **13 Sep 2013, 10:27**

Dark77 wrote:WTCC isn't the worst thing ever.

No, but it's close.

Posted: **13 Sep 2013, 15:11**

Dark77 wrote:WTCC isn't the worst thing ever.

As the NASCAR chase format has led to no fewer than four allegations of cheating at Richmond.

Posted: **13 Sep 2013, 19:11**

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Dark77 wrote:WTCC isn't the worst thing ever.

As the NASCAR chase format has led to no fewer than four allegations of cheating at Richmond.

Which is sad, because while all four allegations are true, none of them are cheating. Which leads me to another very unpopular opinion:

There's not a damn thing wrong with team orders in any sport.

Posted: **15 Sep 2013, 17:51**

I'm glad WRC still has someone making the championship boring. If it was wide open, I'd feel like the eventual winner didn't deserve it.

Posted: **19 Sep 2013, 15:19**

Jeff Smith deserves to win a BTCC race.

Posted: **19 Sep 2013, 15:56**

Wallio wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Dark77 wrote:WTCC isn't the worst thing ever.

As the NASCAR chase format has led to no fewer than four allegations of cheating at Richmond.

Which is sad, because while all four allegations are true, none of them are cheating. Which leads me to another very unpopular opinion:

There's not a damn thing wrong with team orders in any sport.

Who's Austria-gate, Crash-gate, Order-gate and most-gate avaiable?

But that's F1, so there's another opinion: WRC is a mere shadow of it's former self, even without LOEBWINSLOL

And just to apply it from the earlier quotation: WRC use of "tactics" (aka: adding time to not be the first one in the SS) are as cheating as team orders

Posted: **19 Sep 2013, 17:47**

Dark77 wrote:Jeff Smith deserves to win a BTCC race.

East Londoner might disagree there. Didn't he knock Rob Austin out of the lead in Oulton Park and then proceed to chuck it away on his own accord with 3 laps left too?

Posted: **19 Sep 2013, 18:26**

Dark77 wrote:Jeff Smith deserves to win a BTCC race.

Not unpopular with me; anyone that drives for Pirtek is a hero in my eyes

To be fair, he looks fairly quick, just erratic with it

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