Haas F1 Team Thread

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 13 Apr 2014, 23:03

dr-baker wrote:And unsurprisingly, Stefan GP has disappeared from the discussion yet again. He never stood a chance did he? And he never will...

Keep up, dr-baker. We already know he's going to buy Marussia and run Barrichello as a driver.

Post by **mario** » 14 Apr 2014, 06:07

watka wrote:
Walsh_e wrote:Glad that this is finally progressing, although for me there should be a minimum of 15 teams in F1 with 26 cars starting!

Sadly it seems like the FIA have messed this up again, Haas should be entering in 2016, 8 months to find an engine, set up a team, hire drivers, get commercial partners, get a chassis and develop it. They'll probably end up 2 seconds slower than Caterham with little chance of catching up.

Still at least its a new team, fingers crossed for an interesting livery!

It would have made more sense to have done the selection process at the end of 2013 to give them more time to design and develop. At the moment, they have about the same amount of time as the other teams (who probably already have ideas for 2015 in mind) but have to start it completely from scratch. I seem to remember Toyota having loads of time to get ready for F1 but then the next teams to enter who had to build their car from scratch (Lotus, Virgin, HRT) were given nowhere near as much time and didn't have anywhere near the resources of Toyota. You would have thought the FIA would have learnt their lesson...

There were a few rumours that Haas wished to enter in 2016 rather than 2015, but was pushed into bringing his application forward a year.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 14 Apr 2014, 07:53

mario wrote:There were a few rumours that Haas wished to enter in 2016 rather than 2015, but was pushed into bringing his application forward a year.

If this push happened in November, we'd have a Mastercard Lola situation on our hands... :mrgreen:

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 14 Apr 2014, 15:32

Meatwad wrote:
BIG Mistake for United States Formula
1 fans (and F1 in general)
A Nascar-based F1 team will
never endure or WIN !

The entire mentality of Nascar “tradition”-based, low-technology racing is counter-productive to the ultra high-technology of F1.

Nascar teams might “think” that they are using high technology in racing, but Formula 1 is operating on a completely different level.

No points for guessing who said this...

Well, I went straight to the site (or, one of the many sites) of who I thought it was, and what do you know...

The old biffer's stopped talking about us now (you know, I'm almost annoyed), only that every post has "F1 Rejects Scam Alert" in the tags. Oh, the irony.

SimtekFan32 · Post by **SimtekFan32** » 14 Apr 2014, 15:37

I'm actually watching the presser right now. Unfortunately it sounds like they're unprepared. He just said "I don't care about speed in the first year." He only cares about the car getting to the track.

I like his realism.

Post by **Ataxia** » 14 Apr 2014, 16:21

Haas have signed former Jaguar and Red Bull managing director Guenther Steiner as their team principal.

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 14 Apr 2014, 17:52

There's a saying in the golf course industry that the third owner of the course makes money. Now this is not true in all cases, but the the news of Haas getting an entry made me think of the saying. It's not a perfect comparison because in the golf example each previous owner would have gone bankrupt and then the course liquidated by the bank left owning the golf course. It's a good way to pick up a golf course for pennies on the dollar without buying the debt as well (at least not all of it).

The Haas situation brought the example to mind because I wonder if he wouldn't be better off waiting for a team to go bankrupt and then buying it for pennies on the dollar without all of the debt. Perhaps this is not possible in the countries where the teams are owned, but it would be worth looking into.

If he is to start his own team, I'm left wondering why he'd be interested on having his European operations in a country other than the UK/England. If that's where most of the best F1 personnel are located, it would make sense that he base his (non US) operations there.

Finally, I wonder if his source of funding, Haas Automation, would be able to provide the sort of budget that most title sponsors provide. The company may be fairly large, but for some reason I doubt that it's large enough to provide the type of budget that a Santander or a Redbull provide. If not, where is he going to find the money to run the team? Who sponsors his Nascar team and what is a typical high-end team budget for Nascar?

All that said, I hope for only the best for his F1 team. An American F1 team with hopefully an American driver would do a lot to raise the profile of the sport here. If someone wanted to provide a legitimate list of potential american drivers, I'd appreciate it.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 14 Apr 2014, 18:49

The only American drivers I can think of right now that have European exposure are Alex Rossi, Conor Daly and Jake Rosenzweig, but even that might be a bit of a stretch. It might be a good idea to pick someone from IndyCar (Ryan Hunter-Reay anyone?), but I doubt that would happen. Interesting to think about though!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 14 Apr 2014, 19:37

Aerospeed wrote:The only American drivers I can think of right now that have European exposure are Alex Rossi, Conor Daly and Jake Rosenzweig, but even that might be a bit of a stretch. It might be a good idea to pick someone from IndyCar (Ryan Hunter-Reay anyone?), but I doubt that would happen. Interesting to think about though!

Pretty sure RHR has no intentions of going to F1. He has a good thing going with Andretti, and he's been with some really crappy efforts before. I can't see him wanting to give up what he has now for anything.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 15 Apr 2014, 07:36

Haas to go the HRT way... with Dallara chassis!

Post by **Miguel98** » 15 Apr 2014, 08:37

Aerospeed wrote:The only American drivers I can think of right now that have European exposure are Alex Rossi, Conor Daly and Jake Rosenzweig, but even that might be a bit of a stretch. It might be a good idea to pick someone from IndyCar (Ryan Hunter-Reay anyone?), but I doubt that would happen. Interesting to think about though!

Well, Haas said that they want a Young American and a more experienced driver. I think Rossi might have the edge for that seat. Maybe in the other seat a guy like Vergne, taking care he might be dropped and that is experienced with the new regulations?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 15 Apr 2014, 09:59

Shizuka wrote:Haas to go the HRT way... with Dallara chassis!

The rejectful force is strong on that team.

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 15 Apr 2014, 15:37

I think i like Haas, and i'd like to see a new team and a US one at that. But i seriously doubt this entry has a chance in hell of ever making anything other than noise. They may have resources and money but Toyota had many times more and a much much more realistic outlook as well.

Instead of talking about beating Europeans at their own game, and making plans to pair a young US driver with a more experienced one, they should aim to achieve very meagre results and a degree of respectability. As f1rejects fans we know all too well how staggeringly easy it is to fail at F1. This entry has nothing going for it whatsoever. Money has proven in the past to be far far from enough and experience in other forms of motorsport counts for nothing.

The worst consequence of aiming too high with a new team is that once reality bites, the team can not realistically exist anymore. Marussia and Caterham (in it's probably last year) have struggled more than other teams, worked just as hard if not harder (money permitting) for 0 reward aside aforementioned respectability. Even the rules reshuffle and Ferrari engines have not moved Marussia closer to the midfield, and they are still roughly the same amount of seconds or tenths away. They will keep fighting as long as they can find funds, but the same could not be said of a team that wants too much too soon, and sees trundling around at the back for no points or money as failure.

Also, Dallara and being based in the US. Ha ha. Yes for an American outfit having a strong US base is important, but mostly for image reasons and financing. For results a strong European presence is needed.

Post by **Ataxia** » 15 Apr 2014, 15:48

Sublime_FA11C wrote:I think i like Haas, and i'd like to see a new team and a US one at that. But i seriously doubt this entry has a chance in hell of ever making anything other than noise. They may have resources and money but Toyota had many times more and a much much more realistic outlook as well.

Instead of talking about beating Europeans at their own game, and making plans to pair a young US driver with a more experienced one, they should aim to achieve very meagre results and a degree of respectability. As f1rejects fans we know all too well how staggeringly easy it is to fail at F1. This entry has nothing going for it whatsoever. Money has proven in the past to be far far from enough and experience in other forms of motorsport counts for nothing.

Yes, because everyone's successful with zero ambition whatsoever.

I'm excited to see what Haas can do. They've had the entry in the pipeline for a number of years, they've got the backing and the resource, there's no reason that they should pin their hopes on a rainy day or whatever.

Dallara will have learned from their HRT chassis, and probably have a few designs on a hard drive somewhere...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 15 Apr 2014, 16:34

Ataxia wrote:Dallara will have learned from their HRT chassis, and probably have a few designs on a hard drive somewhere...

And while I wrote what I wrote a couple of posts ago (referring to Dallara and HRT), truth is that I don't think the chassis they built for HRT was that bad. It performed accordingly to what the new teams could be capable of. Maybe even better than expected having in mind the turmoil that surrounded the team. And if properly funded it is possible that it could have outperformed Caterham too in a longer run after a couple of chassis iterations. Maybe we can find what Dallara are really capable of if they have sufficient financial and infrastructure backing from Haas.

madcat · Post by **madcat** » 15 Apr 2014, 16:49

All this being said, is there enough time to put a team together, develop a car, get an engine and be ready for 2015? It's less than a year, somehow I can't see it happening.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 15 Apr 2014, 17:03

madcat wrote:All this being said, is there enough time to put a team together, develop a car, get an engine and be ready for 2015? It's less than a year, somehow I can't see it happening.

At least they'll they'll have a little more time than Mastercard Lotus... Sorry, I mean Mastercard Lola!

Post by **mario** » 15 Apr 2014, 17:21

good_Ralf wrote:
madcat wrote:All this being said, is there enough time to put a team together, develop a car, get an engine and be ready for 2015? It's less than a year, somehow I can't see it happening.

At least they'll they'll have a little more time than Mastercard Lotus... Sorry, I mean Mastercard Lola!

Haas has stated that the FIA has given them the option to postpone their entry until 2016 instead - there were rumours that Haas preferred a 2016 start date anyway, so he may well push it back to 2016 if he has the chance.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 15 Apr 2014, 17:27

mario wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
madcat wrote:All this being said, is there enough time to put a team together, develop a car, get an engine and be ready for 2015? It's less than a year, somehow I can't see it happening.

At least they'll they'll have a little more time than Mastercard Lotus... Sorry, I mean Mastercard Lola!

Haas has stated that the FIA has given them the option to postpone their entry until 2016 instead - there were rumours that Haas preferred a 2016 start date anyway, so he may well push it back to 2016 if he has the chance.

I think he has even said that that is a possibility, with the decision to be taken over the next few months.

VirtuaMcPolygon · Post by **VirtuaMcPolygon** » 16 Apr 2014, 08:34

I suspect dalarra will have less of an input compared to what they did for HRT.

Didn't hass buy up a lot of the twitching corpse of Lola? So probably is geared up to do the aero work themselves. And they have that wind tunnel as well. HRT could only dream of those resources.

I will take a punt and say dalarra will only design the basic chassis.

I can see hass doing alright thou. Their has been rumours coke/Pepsi was going to enter with mclaren but has collapsed. Well a soft drinks mega company.

They would rather have their brand on a US car with a famous US motoracing name ... Just saying like ...

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 16 Apr 2014, 12:19

VirtuaMcPolygon wrote:I suspect dalarra will have less of an input compared to what they did for HRT.

Didn't hass buy up a lot of the twitching corpse of Lola? So probably is geared up to do the aero work themselves. And they have that wind tunnel as well. HRT could only dream of those resources.

I will take a punt and say dalarra will only design the basic chassis.

I can see hass doing alright thou. Their has been rumours coke/Pepsi was going to enter with mclaren but has collapsed. Well a soft drinks mega company.

They would rather have their brand on a US car with a famous US motoracing name ... Just saying like ...

Sorry, but just felt the need to correct spelling and grammar:

dalarra = Dallara
hass = Haas
thou = though - thou is an English word, but is an archaic version of you, it is not a contraction of though
coke = Coke (with a capital like Pepsi)
McLaren = McLaren (TWO capitals!)
just saying = were you? You were saying that? Wow. I thought you were imagining it... :roll:

And Jose Maria Lopez for Haas?

VirtuaMcPolygon · Post by **VirtuaMcPolygon** » 16 Apr 2014, 12:23

Blimey... I'll remember next time i'm jabbing away on my iPhone. Is this a petrol heads forum? My bad! :roll of eyes:

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 16 Apr 2014, 12:37

VirtuaMcPolygon wrote:Blimey... I'll remember next time i'm jabbing away on my iPhone. Is this a petrol heads forum? My bad! :roll of eyes:

Well sorry if any offence was caused. I just believe in clear, plain English. During my life, I went from specific language difficulties (at age 5, my language was at the level of somebody half my age, two-and-a-half years delayed), and ended up going straight out of school into a foreign language degree, so I have worked hard at learning language properly at school. It now turns out that I have a learning difficulty, associated with processing information, so the clearer the information, the easier it is for me to process and interpret, otherwise all I will see is the spelling errors and not what you were trying to say.

So yeah. Good spelling, grammar and punctuation will help me to read what it is that you are actually trying to say...

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 16 Apr 2014, 13:07

F1.com has an article up that really makes it seem like he'll wait until 2016, which is smart. My only thought is this, Haas wants a 'Murican team. I wonder if Dallara will out source the actual build of the chassis to their Indy facility?

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 28 May 2014, 17:51

Now Motorsport.com say that Haas will join the grid in 2016...http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-formula-will-defer-formula-one-entry-until-2016/

W12 · Post by **W12** » 28 May 2014, 17:55

wsrgo wrote:Now Motorsport.com say that Haas will join the grid in 2016...http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-formula-will-defer-formula-one-entry-until-2016/

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 28 May 2014, 17:57

wsrgo wrote:Now Motorsport.com say that Haas will join the grid in 2016...http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-formula-will-defer-formula-one-entry-until-2016/

Is this going to end up like the NJGP?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 28 May 2014, 18:15

It is sad news, but hardly surprising, given the time constraints. As soon as he was announced as having an entry, he said this could happen. Real question now is: is Haas going to be comparable to USF1, Mastercard Lola, or Caterham/Marussia?

Post by **Ataxia** » 28 May 2014, 18:56

A shame, but it's vital to hold it off for a bit so the entry isn't half-arsed. I hope Haas are on the grid by 2016, and I'm gonna be keeping my beady eye on vacancies there!

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 28 May 2014, 19:47

I will definently be keeping 1/8th of an eye on Hass because if his team do good in 2016 (e.g, not last) they will be doing good in my eyes.

Post by **mario** » 28 May 2014, 20:35

dr-baker wrote:It is sad news, but hardly surprising, given the time constraints. As soon as he was announced as having an entry, he said this could happen. Real question now is: is Haas going to be comparable to USF1, Mastercard Lola, or Caterham/Marussia?

And it does make more sense as well - as Haas says, it gives the team more time to get development partners into place, plus the additional time should give Dallara a better chance of producing a reasonably refined chassis design.
As Haas also hints at, it is possible that they could use the intervening time frame to negotiate a more favourable deal too - asides from Honda entering the market in 2015 (the additional competition for customers should, you would expect, help bring down prices at least), there are some indications that the larger teams are pushing for more relaxations on the sale of parts to customer teams.

Wallio wrote:F1.com has an article up that really makes it seem like he'll wait until 2016, which is smart. My only thought is this, Haas wants a 'Murican team. I wonder if Dallara will out source the actual build of the chassis to their Indy facility?

It would make sense in terms of logistics - that facility already manufactures the standard chassis and spare components for IndyCar, so the staff there have experience in designing and maintaining a high performance open wheeler vehicle.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 28 May 2014, 21:04

mario wrote:
Wallio wrote:F1.com has an article up that really makes it seem like he'll wait until 2016, which is smart. My only thought is this, Haas wants a 'Murican team. I wonder if Dallara will out source the actual build of the chassis to their Indy facility?

It would make sense in terms of logistics - that facility already manufactures the standard chassis and spare components for IndyCar, so the staff there have experience in designing and maintaining a high performance open wheeler vehicle.

Didn't exactly work for MasterCard Lola though, did it?

Or HRT for that matter... Or Scuderia Italia...

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 28 May 2014, 22:51

Bernie's not going to like this at all, I'm very concerned that Haas will lose their spot because they did not get their entry in time. But let's all be thankful they're admitting this now than a month before the season begins.

Post by **Ataxia** » 28 May 2014, 22:55

Aerospeed wrote:Bernie's not going to like this at all, I'm very concerned that Haas will lose their spot because they did not get their entry in time. But let's all be thankful they're admitting this now than a month before the season begins.

No, they have a two-year grace period.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 29 May 2014, 06:28

mario wrote:
Wallio wrote:F1.com has an article up that really makes it seem like he'll wait until 2016, which is smart. My only thought is this, Haas wants a 'Murican team. I wonder if Dallara will out source the actual build of the chassis to their Indy facility?

It would make sense in terms of logistics - that facility already manufactures the standard chassis and spare components for IndyCar, so the staff there have experience in designing and maintaining a high performance open wheeler vehicle.

Probably means Haas are gonna go bust just trying to pay Dallara for spares then

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 29 May 2014, 08:26

Ataxia wrote:A shame, but it's vital to hold it off for a bit so the entry isn't half-arsed.

Exactly, as funny as it may have been to see them turn up with, perhaps, half a car or something at least now there's a reasonable chance of them being prepared.

McJaggers · Post by **McJaggers** » 29 May 2014, 10:33

Why not just turn up in 2015 with a 2002 arrows chassis and collect 12/13th place on the grid and a bit of sponsorship money.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 29 May 2014, 15:01

Wizzie wrote:
Probably means Haas are gonna go bust just trying to pay Dallara for spares then

I have to admit, I laughed pretty hard at that. Well done.

Of course, if Haas somehow unlikely lands Honda engines, he could (on paper) have them assembled at the HPD facility in Cali, and with the Indy Dallaras be like Toyota and claim his team is "Made in the USA". That could be interesting.

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 29 May 2014, 16:59

McJaggers wrote:Why not just turn up in 2015 with a 2002 arrows chassis and collect 12/13th place on the grid and a bit of sponsorship money.

Sadly, the 107% rule pretty much makes that impossible. Who would sponsor a team with no chance of qualifying for the race? I assume any potential sponsorship deals would have a performance clause. We all know that didn't really work out for MasterCard Lola...

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 03 Jun 2014, 20:14

I've been thinking about Haas this weekend, and I'm curious as to how Chevy will handle his running other motors. SHR is one of Chevy's Factory teams in NASCAR, and Stewart is a Chevy Factory driver (Chevy bought him out of Gibbs when they went Yota after one awkward year). Now while Chevy let Kurt Busch run a Honda, he pretty much signed up for it on his own, and NBC had an interesting story on their page suggesting Chevy (and to a lesser extent, Honda) were the reason "The Double" wasn't really advertised, as the bowtie wasn't happy Busch wasn't in a Chevy. Chevy also flat out refused to allow Dale Jr. another Factory Driver, to do a "ride swap" with Graham Rahal this year, despite there sharing the same sponsor in the National Guard, citing the different engines. So I have to wonder if Haas's F1 team could end up affecting his NASCAR team.......

But then again, Tony Stewart was allowed to drive Hammy's McLaren, and he is in the newest episode of "Tooned".....