Grand Prix Rejects

Here's an odd idea. What would Tora Takagi do in a championship-winning car?

Smash it into a million pieces, likely as not.

good_Ralf wrote:Here's an odd idea. What would Tora Takagi do in a championship-winning car?

The same thing that he would in an inferior car. Crash early and often.

What if Kimi Raikkonen had returned from his rallying sojourn to Williams as was rumoured? Would he now be being considered for a Red Bull seat alongside Vettel for next season?

dr-baker wrote:What if Kimi Raikkonen had returned from his rallying sojourn to Williams as was rumoured? Would he now be being considered for a Red Bull seat alongside Vettel for next season?

Well, he would undoubtedly score podiums and maybe a win and might also have given us an indication of how quick Maldonado really is.

good_Ralf wrote:

dr-baker wrote:What if Kimi Raikkonen had returned from his rallying sojourn to Williams as was rumoured? Would he now be being considered for a Red Bull seat alongside Vettel for next season?

Well, he would undoubtedly score podiums and maybe a win and might also have given us an indication of how quick Maldonado really is.

And Pastor would be gone to a Marussia or Caterham.

Kimi would have won in Barcelona and got one or two other podiums, but not as high up in the WDC as he was with Lotus. He would have then moved to Lotus this year. Taking a bit of time to get accustomed with the car, he wouldn't have won in Australia.


Now, my own: What if Nico or Lewis had been injured in the tyre tests, forcing to miss at least Monaco event?

Bleu wrote:Kimi would have won in Barcelona and got one or two other podiums, but not as high up in the WDC as he was with Lotus. He would have then moved to Lotus this year. Taking a bit of time to get accustomed with the car, he wouldn't have won in Australia.


Now, my own: What if Nico or Lewis had been injured in the tyre tests, forcing to miss at least Monaco event?

If Rosberg was forced to miss Monaco then we can safely say we would have seen VETTELWINSLOL

Kimi-ICE wrote:

Bleu wrote:Kimi would have won in Barcelona and got one or two other podiums, but not as high up in the WDC as he was with Lotus. He would have then moved to Lotus this year. Taking a bit of time to get accustomed with the car, he wouldn't have won in Australia.


Now, my own: What if Nico or Lewis had been injured in the tyre tests, forcing to miss at least Monaco event?

If Rosberg was forced to miss Monaco then we can safely say we would have seen VETTELWINSLOL

And either Brendon Hartley or Sam Bird takes over.

good_Ralf wrote:

Kimi-ICE wrote:

Bleu wrote:Kimi would have won in Barcelona and got one or two other podiums, but not as high up in the WDC as he was with Lotus. He would have then moved to Lotus this year. Taking a bit of time to get accustomed with the car, he wouldn't have won in Australia.


Now, my own: What if Nico or Lewis had been injured in the tyre tests, forcing to miss at least Monaco event?

If Rosberg was forced to miss Monaco then we can safely say we would have seen VETTELWINSLOL

And either Brendon Hartley or Sam Bird takes over.

Go Sam!

What if Johnny Cecotto Jr. never got into a racing car?

go_Rubens wrote:Go Sam!

What if Johnny Cecotto Jr. never got into a racing car?

We wouldn't be able to cause havoc?

What if Cecotto got picked over Robin Frijns for an F1 drive

Kimi-ICE wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:Go Sam!

What if Johnny Cecotto Jr. never got into a racing car?

We wouldn't be able to cause havoc?

What if Cecotto got picked over Robin Frijns for an F1 drive

I'd stop watching F1, even if the first corner is havoc

Kimi-ICE wrote:What if Cecotto got picked over Robin Frijns for an F1 drive

From what I've heard about him, he'll do a decent job but he'd also do what Tora Takagi, as you will see at the top of this page...

Kimi-ICE wrote:

Bleu wrote:Kimi would have won in Barcelona and got one or two other podiums, but not as high up in the WDC as he was with Lotus. He would have then moved to Lotus this year. Taking a bit of time to get accustomed with the car, he wouldn't have won in Australia.


Now, my own: What if Nico or Lewis had been injured in the tyre tests, forcing to miss at least Monaco event?

If Rosberg was forced to miss Monaco then we can safely say we would have seen VETTELWINSLOL

No, Hamilton would've won from the Red Bulls, wirh Sam Bird coming about 7th or 8th

Rather than how Monaco GP had unfolded, I was referring more how the whole testgate would have been seen?

Bleu wrote:Rather than how Monaco GP had unfolded, I was referring more how the whole testgate would have been seen?

Possible penalties regarding safety?!

What if Pedro de la Rosa got the Jordan drive for 1999?

good_Ralf wrote:What if Pedro de la Rosa got the Jordan drive for 1999?

A few podiums, maybe? Well, probably nowhere near Frentzen, to say the least. Or was he to be Hill's teammate? Because he probably would have beat him on multiple occasions

good_Ralf wrote:What if Pedro de la Rosa got the Jordan drive for 1999?

Good question. I think He would have certainly taken some podium finishes and Jordan would have finished much closer to Ferrari and Mclaren in the WCC. Damon Hill was well past his prime and we all the story of his on and off retirement saga so i won't go into that.

I've got one: What If Michael Schumacher replaced David Coulthard at Mclaren instead of sticking with Ferrari in the late 1990's?

Kimi-ICE wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:What if Pedro de la Rosa got the Jordan drive for 1999?

Good question. I think He would have certainly taken some podium finishes and Jordan would have finished much closer to Ferrari and Mclaren in the WCC. Damon Hill was well past his prime and we all the story of his on and off retirement saga so i won't go into that.

I've got one: What If Michael Schumacher replaced David Coulthard at Mclaren instead of sticking with Ferrari in the late 1990's?

Which year exactly? Coulthard was quite a decent driver in the late 90s, there was no need for him to be replaced... maybe in 2002, though

JeremyMcClean wrote:

Kimi-ICE wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:What if Pedro de la Rosa got the Jordan drive for 1999?

Good question. I think He would have certainly taken some podium finishes and Jordan would have finished much closer to Ferrari and Mclaren in the WCC. Damon Hill was well past his prime and we all the story of his on and off retirement saga so i won't go into that.

I've got one: What If Michael Schumacher replaced David Coulthard at Mclaren instead of sticking with Ferrari in the late 1990's?

Which year exactly? Coulthard was quite a decent driver in the late 90s, there was no need for him to be replaced... maybe in 2002, though

I read something once that they actually thought of replacing Coulthard after 98/99 somewhere around there. In 1998 DC only claimed 1 win compared to 7 for Mika and Michael and apart from 2000-2001 he was always Mika's number 2

Hmm, let's assume he wanted to join McLaren in 1999. This makes little sense to me as Ferrari did Schumacher little wrong, but let's say Schumacher made the move and joined them for 1999. They would definitely win the constructors, being the best two drivers of the decade. I think Hakkinen still would have won the drivers' title, though, considering he was at the team longer than Michael, and that he would have been more used to the team, strategies, equipment, etc. I don't think there would have been an inter-team rivalry/conflict unless somebody said something egomaniacal or the team started favouring one driver over another.

Ferrari would have been a different issue. Eddie Irvine would have obviously been #1 driver, with someone else fitting in at #2. But who? My gut says Ralf Schumacher, though I doubt Ferrari would reach over to another Schumacher after Michael (somehow) abandoned the team on his terms. I think Salo would have been given a shot at the #2 seat. Given McLaren's dominance that is assumed, I doubt Irvine would have challenged for the championship very much, and I doubt Salo would have done much better than Irvine. In fact, I think Salo gets the sack. Barrichello, then, joins Ferrari as planned in 2000, but... I think Schumacher would have still won the drivers' title that year. His form was spectacular, and McLaren certainly had a winning car that year... I think he would have outclassed everyone on the track.

Another question is raised on who designs what in this change - does Newey and Brawn remain at their positions, or does Michael convince Brawn to make the switch? If he would have made the switch, I definitely see McLaren dominating as Ferrari did in real life. Had Brawn stayed at Ferrari, this raises very curious questions - what would Irvine have done in what was the greatest era in Ferrari's history? I don't see him staying there past 2002 due to age, so Barrichello would have taken the helm in 2003 - they still had fantastic cars by then - do we see Barrichello winning the Drivers' title in this scenario?

JeremyMcClean wrote:Hmm, let's assume he wanted to join McLaren in 1999. This makes little sense to me as Ferrari did Schumacher little wrong, but let's say Schumacher made the move and joined them for 1999. They would definitely win the constructors, being the best two drivers of the decade. I think Hakkinen still would have won the drivers' title, though, considering he was at the team longer than Michael, and that he would have been more used to the team, strategies, equipment, etc. I don't think there would have been an inter-team rivalry/conflict unless somebody said something egomaniacal or the team started favouring one driver over another.

Yeah, I have to agree with this.

After some "research" of the 1983 for my Empire Racing (which should get an update soon,for those following), I have come up with a few What If scenarios on my own...

What if the Ferte Brothers actually made it into Formula One? Will they have a chance to break into a top team?

What if the New York Grand Prix took place as scheduled? Would the event be fantastic or a farce?

What if Helio Castroneves ended up in the second Toyota seat for 2003 after this test?

Wizzie wrote:What if Helio Castroneves ended up in the second Toyota seat for 2003 after this test?

Not much better performance than Da Matta. He would have been better in 2004, but still ending up getting the boot, Helio would return to IRL.

What if Gary Paffett had replaced Sutil at Force India for 2012?

Jocke1 wrote:What if Gary Paffett had replaced Sutil at Force India for 2012?

Oh boy, Force India certainly wouldn't be as strong this season.

Jocke1 wrote:What if Gary Paffett had replaced Sutil at Force India for 2012?

Force India would overtake Red Bull as the "whiningest" team of the grid.

What if, EuroBrun and Lotus merged in 1989?

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

Jocke1 wrote:What if Gary Paffett had replaced Sutil at Force India for 2012?

Oh boy, Force India certainly wouldn't be as strong this season.

How come?

I think Paffett would have scored at least one podium and double the points of Di Resta.

David AGS wrote:(Apologies if done before!)

What would happen if Morgan Grenfell had allowed Red Bull to purchase Arrows (apparently they were keen!) in 2002 before they eventually went bust. Got the idea while browsing the Autosport 2002 review!

What would happen to the team then known as Jaguar?

Driver changes eg. Would Bernoldi be a regular point scorer, will HHF still be there etc etc..

This is one I can talk about. Red Bull were more than keen, in fact an agreement had been signed for the sale of the team, which required that Red Bull maintain the then-current staff levels. I saw a mock-up Red Bull livery for the Arrows A23 which looked just like the blue and silver livery that Jaguar R5 that ran in 2005 pre-season tests. Exactly the same, looked quite nice. Unfortunately a couple of days before the deal was to be signed it fell through. It is still up for debate whether it was Morgan Grenfell (wanted to be bought out), Tom Walkinshaw (wanted more money) or a combination of both.
It could have been good. It was a well-known fact that Arrows had the facilities of McLaren but operated on Minardi's budget. Red Bull would have poured some serious money into the team. Arrows did not have a car design in place for 2003, so it was likely that we (I hope I would still have been there) would have entered a modified A23, in all likelihood with the same Cosworth engine, in the nice livery that I described above. I expect that later Red Bull would have worked on moving away from Cosworth engines and towards a customer deal with Ferrari or Renault, as happened later in reality with Red Bull. There was a lot of bad blood between Arrows and Cosworth in 2002. As for drivers, Enrique Bernoldi would in all likelihood have stayed since he was a Red Bull driver and the other seat would probably gone to someone other than Frentzen. Maybe Webber? Maybe another established name driver? I can't think of any other Red Bull drivers that were near Formula 1 back then.
The Arrows A23 clearly had a lot of potential and with some of the developments that we had planned I think it could have remained competitive in 2003.
What happens to Jaguar? Probably the same as in reality, carry on for a couple of years and then try to find someone to buy them. Was it the Magna or Magma Group that was looking at buying Jaguar in 2004?

Not sure about Magma and all that, but very cool to have your imput, after all you were there!

As you have also discussed many times, the potential of the A23 was huge. Didnt know of the poor relations between Arrows and Cosworth. Would have been interesting had RB invested a bit of cash into the A23 chassis for 2003 like 'a la' McLaren who raced the '02 car in 2003.

Id say for sure Bernoldi would have been involved, after all he had improved in the first half in 2002, beside an older hand maybe McNish/Salo or others.

What if Jaime Alguersuari didn't get hit at La Source in 2011?

What if Bernie suddenly announced the creation of the Chase for the World Championship?

darkapprentice77 wrote:What if Bernie suddenly announced the creation of the Chase for the World Championship?

I wouldn't take it seriously, just like the medals system and the idea of artificially flooded tracks.

good_Ralf wrote:What if Jaime Alguersuari didn't get hit at La Source in 2011?

He would have finished in the top 6, and he would have chased down the guys in front of him in the car that was the Toro Rosso. He would ultimately retain his seat for 2012, and would impress more and more, and would replace Webber when he chose to retire.

darkapprentice77 wrote:What if Bernie suddenly announced the creation of the Chase for the World Championship?

Then we'd stop watching F1 for it's similarity to NASCAR or make angry protests aimed at Bernie to keep things as is. The Chase for the Sprint Cup sucks anyway. Johnson would win hands down this year.

darkapprentice77 wrote:What if Bernie suddenly announced the creation of the Chase for the World Championship?

We'd have a new thing to moan about. And be completely justified in doing it, but we'd still be watching.

go_Rubens wrote:Then we'd stop watching F1 for it's similarity to NASCAR or make angry protests aimed at Bernie to keep things as is.

Such as what?

pi314159 wrote:

darkapprentice77 wrote:What if Bernie suddenly announced the creation of the Chase for the World Championship?

I wouldn't take it seriously, just like the medals system and the idea of artificially flooded tracks.

Sometime in the mid 90s Flavio Briatore ended up attending a round of BTCC (it may have been a support race for F1) and thought what a great idea it would be to split F1 races into 2, just like those little touring cars. IIRC Bernie also considered it a possibility.

That man will consider anything, even running races twice to double the coverage royalties...

CoopsII wrote:

pi314159 wrote:

darkapprentice77 wrote:What if Bernie suddenly announced the creation of the Chase for the World Championship?

I wouldn't take it seriously, just like the medals system and the idea of artificially flooded tracks.

Sometime in the mid 90s Flavio Briatore ended up attending a round of BTCC (it may have been a support race for F1) and thought what a great idea it would be to split F1 races into 2, just like those little touring cars. IIRC Bernie also considered it a possibility.

That man will consider anything, even running races twice to double the coverage royalties...

Well yeah, he needs people to think he'll actually do these outlandish things in order to trick them to compromise on what he actually wants.