Grand Prix Rejects

cbbcisace wrote:Once Ma gets his super license, he'll be in FP1's to start of with, difference between Clos and Ma at this moment is that Ma has sponsorship money.

I imagine that the plan is to run Ma at the Young Driver Tests, then? I seem to recall reading somewhere that HRT wanted to take part in the proposed Silverstone tests.

Captain Hammer wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:Once Ma gets his super license, he'll be in FP1's to start of with, difference between Clos and Ma at this moment is that Ma has sponsorship money.

I imagine that the plan is to run Ma at the Young Driver Tests, then? I seem to recall reading somewhere that HRT wanted to take part in the proposed Silverstone tests.

Captain, I think you may have read it here?

At least HRT don't seem to intend to replace one of their race drivers for the actual race ahead of the British GP for once. (After subbing Senna for Yamamoto in 2010 and Karthikeyan for Ricciardo in 2011)

Still got 4 days to go! Anything can happen..Hope not.

Good to see Clos gettign a run at Silverstone though.

HRT to keep Cosworth for 2013

Well, it comes as no surprise - they secured a 4-year deal for these engines and they will make the most out of it.
I'm still curious about their engine of choice for 2014...

David AGS wrote:Still got 4 days to go! Anything can happen..Hope not.

Good to see Clos gettign a run at Silverstone though.

I can still see Karthikayen getting replaced mid season though, just not right now.

Captain Hammer wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:Once Ma gets his super license, he'll be in FP1's to start of with, difference between Clos and Ma at this moment is that Ma has sponsorship money.

I imagine that the plan is to run Ma at the Young Driver Tests, then? I seem to recall reading somewhere that HRT wanted to take part in the proposed Silverstone tests.

I think that you are thinking of this Autosport article about the Silverstone test, which suggested that HRT, Marussia and Williams were all planning to test at Silverstone.
The remaining teams, however, are probably going to carry out their test at Abu Dhabi, partially because FOM's interference in the tests meant that some teams were uncertain that the Silverstone test would go ahead (Boullier has confirmed that he will switch to Abu Dhabi because of that), and partially because some teams find it easier in terms of logistics to carry out the test after the season has ended. However, it is not entirely certain that the Abu Dhabi test will take place either - Ferrari are pushing for the post season Young Driver test to take place in Jerez, saying that they would prefer to hold the event in Europe as it would be less stressful for their mechanics.

Pointrox wrote:HRT to keep Cosworth for 2013

Well, it comes as no surprise - they secured a 4-year deal for these engines and they will make the most out of it.
I'm still curious about their engine of choice for 2014...

I would assume that PURE are targeting HRT and Marussia as potential clients given that Cosworth has not made a firm commitment to the turbo engine formula (the expectation is that Cosworth will pull out of the sport due to the cost of developing the new engines).

With the cost of a factory engine deal expected to be somewhere between two and three times as much as it is now (figures as high as €30 million a year have been mentioned), and the current restrictions from the FIA on how many engines a factory team can supply, there would be a market for a reasonably priced independent engine manufacturer. Although Renault were briefly in talks with HRT about an engine deal under the current regulations, I think that a post 2014 factory engine deal would probably be too expensive, even if, as cbbcisace points out, HRT are picking up additional sponsors and building up their budget.

Great points Mario, In my opinion LPS is keeping things quiet, HRT wan't to get rid of Cosworth as they are not happy with the engine and its performance compared to Renault, Mercedes etc.

Isn't the rumour that Cosworth will pull out at the end of this season?

The team is known to be expanding its workforce to near enough double it size at the moment and wants to become on part with what Caterham are doing this year.

Plus 2013 will be a better year as the team won't miss preseason due to strict deadlines being put in by the new Management (Thesan) at the start of this season.

I hope they are picking up sponsors, at this stage though we havent seen much decals on the car from Spain onwards. However, as previously said Chinese money could be comming soon which would be a positive. Obviously, the team has been a little bit more competitive than the last few seasons so that should help a little.

Lets hope they do test in early 2013, they are getting better each year!

Speaking about the team expanding in team members, here is a link to jobs that are available if someone here is interested. I had a look myself, but dont have any qualifications that they require.

http://www.hrtf1team.com/en/ofertas-de-empleo/

Faustus for HRT Chief Aerodynamicist. You heard it here first

Wizzie wrote:Faustus for HRT Chief Aerodynamicist. You heard it here first

Yes, this would be awesome.

cbbcisace wrote:Great points Mario, In my opinion LPS is keeping things quiet, HRT wan't to get rid of Cosworth as they are not happy with the engine and its performance compared to Renault, Mercedes etc.

Isn't the rumour that Cosworth will pull out at the end of this season?

The team is known to be expanding its workforce to near enough double it size at the moment and wants to become on part with what Caterham are doing this year.

Plus 2013 will be a better year as the team won't miss preseason due to strict deadlines being put in by the new Management (Thesan) at the start of this season.

It is true that the Cosworth V8 is lagging some way behind the other engines in the field, in part because Cosworth were out of the sport for an extended period of time and do not have the resources to keep up with the manufacturer teams. The drop off in performance with engine wear was one area that Cosworth themselves admitted was problematic, since they are having to stretch the life of the engines out ever further, and there were a few other issues with driveability and fuel consumption.
However, being locked into a long term contract with Cosworth means that it would not be easy to break away from Cosworth and to find another engine - it wasn't cheap for Caterham to buy themselves out, nor Williams for that matter, and although Renault Sport have been looking to expand their engine supply deals ever further (they are looking into supplying a fifth team with engines), that would require permission from the FIA, something that, although it would probably be given, is not automatically guaranteed. Mercedes seem content to supply just three teams at the moment (there were briefly rumours that Marussia might strike a transmission and engine deal with McLaren and Mercedes, but they died down quite quickly), as are Ferrari, so I think that HRT are struck with Cosworth for now.

For the future, the expectation is that Cosworth will stay in F1 to fulfil its contracts with HRT and Marussia for next year - i.e. until the end of the V8 engine era - but they are not expected to develop an engine for the V6 turbo era unless they can either find corporate sponsorship for the deal (somebody like Ford, for example, who is willing to underwrite a potential bill of €150 million) or the FIA imposed heavy cost control measures.

Now, the FIA has been discussing the possibility of imposing cost control mechanisms in 2013 which could, partially, cover the engines, but some of the teams have been bitterly opposed to the idea - asides from Red Bull and their surrogate, Toro Rosso, who have been arguing with Ferrari over where the limits on the developments of aerodynamics and drivetrain technology should lie and are dead set against an FIA cost cap, Boullier has been urging caution over imposed cost caps (arguing that the proposals need to be fleshed out rather than rushed through, as they all too often are). Williams, meanwhile, who you would expect to benefit from a cost capped formula, have been even more bucolic, with Sir Frank saying that he is "against any kind of interference" from a third party in the affairs of the team.

So, with the expectation that any cost control measures will need to be watered down to be palatable for the teams, it is doubtful that we'll see further restrictions on engine development for the short term. With that, I would expect Cosworth to leave, since they have made it clear repeatedly that they do not - indeed, cannot afford to - want to get caught up in a heavy spending war.

I think Frank Williams' points are spot on. He's come out and said he's completely against the meddling of the FIA or whoever in the private business of F1 teams, and that it should be things like drivers' salaries and other easier to control factors that should be limited. That would be far easier for everyone to agree to, and much easier to police.

David AGS wrote:Speaking about the team expanding in team members, here is a link to jobs that are available if someone here is interested. I had a look myself, but dont have any qualifications that they require.

http://www.hrtf1team.com/en/ofertas-de-empleo/

Actually, back in pre-season 2010 my girlfriend was offered a position in thier PR department, but declined as she thought the team would die and she'd be out of a job in a couple of months time
To be fair, that did look rather likely to happen when the whole Campos saga was going on...

But yes, Faustas getting a senior position at HRT, I like this

David AGS wrote:I hope they are picking up sponsors, at this stage though we havent seen much decals on the car from Spain onwards. However, as previously said Chinese money could be comming soon which would be a positive. Obviously, the team has been a little bit more competitive than the last few seasons so that should help a little.

Lets hope they do test in early 2013, they are getting better each year!

Speaking about the team expanding in team members, here is a link to jobs that are available if someone here is interested. I had a look myself, but dont have any qualifications that they require.

http://www.hrtf1team.com/en/ofertas-de-empleo/

Sucks that this is about 4 years too early for me...hopefully though, with sound fiscal management there might still be a team then.

DLR beats the record again!! He's been less than one second away from pole...

...okay, today doesn't count

HRT werent turned away at the gates like many other people! Result!

This by far will be the most difficult race for Pedro and Narain, just because the car does not like the wet as stupid as that seems.

Also HRT have no upgrades here and Marussia do, that's why the gap between them is slightly bigger.

cbbcisace wrote:This by far will be the most difficult race for Pedro and Narain, just because the car does not like the wet as stupid as that seems.

If they can just keep the cars going hopefully they can get a decent result if other cars fall off the road.

CoopsII wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:This by far will be the most difficult race for Pedro and Narain, just because the car does not like the wet as stupid as that seems.

If they can just keep the cars going hopefully they can get a decent result if other cars fall off the road.

I can imagine this race being high attrition if it's wet, so if HRT survive then they will have a chance at a good result.

eurobrun wrote:

CoopsII wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:This by far will be the most difficult race for Pedro and Narain, just because the car does not like the wet as stupid as that seems.

If they can just keep the cars going hopefully they can get a decent result if other cars fall off the road.

I can imagine this race being high attrition if it's wet, so if HRT survive then they will have a chance at a good result.

That if, though, is quite sizeable - as cbbcisace points out, and as we saw during the practise sessions, both HRT drivers were struggling quite a lot in full wet weather conditions, as their relative lack of downforce is, if anything, magnified in these conditions given the high speed nature of Silverstone.
I agree that attrition is likely to be high if we see similar conditions to yesterday - especially since there are still patches of gravel to catch the unwary out, as Grosjean found out to his cost - and these are the sorts of conditions that should give De La Rosa some advantage, but it will still be a major battle for him or Karthikeyan just to make it to the finish in one piece.

Well Pedro finished 40s behind Timo in the leading Marussia, which is quite respectable since Marussia had a big update.

One think to point out Narain was similar strategy to Timo and Pic and was on same laptimes....

Did DLR one stop? Kudos to him keeping the tyres healthy if he did.

well 2 car finish but race pace is still way off marussia it seems.

S951 wrote:well 2 car finish but race pace is still way off marussia it seems.

I would have by close but Timo and Pic has fresher tyres for last 15 or so laps so was able to be 2s quicker per lap.

Narain was on pace of the Marussias which was encouraging, but the car has a general deficiency in rear tyre wear.

Next stop the YDT where Ma gets his chance, expect new sponsors on the F112

At least they finished and kept out of trouble.

shinji wrote:Did DLR one stop? Kudos to him keeping the tyres healthy if he did.

He one stopped hoping it would rain.

More mileage on the cars and Pedro did well on the one-stop

cbbcisace wrote:Once Ma gets his super license, he'll be in FP1's to start of with, difference between Clos and Ma at this moment is that Ma has sponsorship money.

As broken exclusively on F1Rejects.com in that Ma has cash, just look at the HRT F112 at the Silverstone test. Note the sponsors on the car too. Pics from their twitter site via yfrog.

http://yfrog.com/oecwzufj (Rear of car)

http://yfrog.com/kfyqsrhj (Hard to see but theres a logo on front wing end plate)

http://yfrog.com/gye95bqj (Ma, with TAG Heuer sponsorship!)

http://yfrog.com/j2bwfhjj (Olympus sponsorship on helmet )

I will post good pics when I finish work but Ma has 2 personal sponsors TAG and Olympus and 4 Chinese /Spanish sponsors on the car could become team ones.

OK so these are the "new" sponsors seen today:-

Bell - Front Wing End Plate // Olympus/Tag Heuer - Ma's Helmet All Personal Sponsors

Roca - On Engine Cover/Top of Chassis.
Tuye - On Sidepod Turning Vane
Weibo.com - On Sidepod/Top of Chassis
Precise - On Rear Wing Endplate

The team have just confirmed to me, that the stickers was just on for today, but "will be on again if Ma drives this season"

I would imagine that the sponsors have paid £500,000 - £600,000 for today.

Half a million pound sterling for a day of testing? If Karthikeyan ain't out by the end of the season, he will be out for next year. That seems like a significant load of cash when you mentally add it up to a race weekend or even a season which could even outmatch Karthikeyan's financial possibilities.

Klon wrote:Half a million pound sterling for a day of testing? If Karthikeyan ain't out by the end of the season, he will be out for next year. That seems like a significant load of cash when you mentally add it up to a race weekend or even a season which could even outmatch Karthikeyan's financial possibilities.

Thats was for both days but HRT aren't driving tomorrow as Ma has done the required miles for his Super License.

Well, the point still stands - that is a neat sum and I guess it will only go up once he starts driving on actual race weekends. Now the only question is when the FIA holds the meeting to agree on his super license.

Klon wrote:Well, the point still stands - that is a neat sum and I guess it will only go up once he starts driving on actual race weekends. Now the only question is when the FIA holds the meeting to agree on his super license.

Yeah will be interesting to see whats happens, I can see him in a FP1 session soon.

cbbcisace wrote:

Klon wrote:Well, the point still stands - that is a neat sum and I guess it will only go up once he starts driving on actual race weekends. Now the only question is when the FIA holds the meeting to agree on his super license.

Yeah will be interesting to see whats happens, I can see him in a FP1 session soon.

I wouldn't see any problem, the market in China can be tapped into if Ma gets some run-time over a GP weekend.

cbbcisace wrote:

Klon wrote:Half a million pound sterling for a day of testing? If Karthikeyan ain't out by the end of the season, he will be out for next year. That seems like a significant load of cash when you mentally add it up to a race weekend or even a season which could even outmatch Karthikeyan's financial possibilities.

Thats was for both days but HRT aren't driving tomorrow as Ma has done the required miles for his Super License.

Hold on, so HRT aren't running at all tomorrow?! Where's the sense in that? They might as well get some running done to try and understand the car a bit more and maybe test setups and parts surely?

AndreaModa wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:

Klon wrote:Half a million pound sterling for a day of testing? If Karthikeyan ain't out by the end of the season, he will be out for next year. That seems like a significant load of cash when you mentally add it up to a race weekend or even a season which could even outmatch Karthikeyan's financial possibilities.

Thats was for both days but HRT aren't driving tomorrow as Ma has done the required miles for his Super License.

Hold on, so HRT aren't running at all tomorrow?! Where's the sense in that? They might as well get some running done to try and understand the car a bit more and maybe test setups and parts surely?

This. This so much. Didn't HRT say that they had a bigger update for Silverstone or Hockenheim?

Well, running a car always costs money and to fully have something from doing so, they'd need De La Rosa in the car since Ma most likely won't have enough technical understanding to make such significant feedback as they need to see whether those updates work properly. So I can understand why they do not run after they have achieved their goal (giving Ma a super license) since the risk-reward calculations may very well be unfavourable.

No update is scheduled to be at Singapore, but I had read quotes that Pedro said that it could be brought forward to Hungary.