A tribute to the heroic failures of Grand Prix racing
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takagi_for_the_win wrote:What if Alain Prost had accepted Pedro Diniz's offer to buy the team in the summer of 2001?
CoopsII wrote:Sometime in the mid 90s Flavio Briatore ended up attending a round of BTCC (it may have been a support race for F1) and thought what a great idea it would be to split F1 races into 2, just like those little touring cars. IIRC Bernie also considered it a possibility.
That man will consider anything, even running races twice to double the coverage royalties...
takagi_for_the_win wrote:What if Alain Prost had accepted Pedro Diniz's offer to buy the team in the summer of 2001?
Onxy Wrecked wrote:takagi_for_the_win wrote:What if Alain Prost had accepted Pedro Diniz's offer to buy the team in the summer of 2001?
The Prost team is in the oven with Pedro Diniz as owner.
go_Rubens wrote:Onxy Wrecked wrote:takagi_for_the_win wrote:What if Alain Prost had accepted Pedro Diniz's offer to buy the team in the summer of 2001?
The Prost team is in the oven with Pedro Diniz as owner.
I'd say in the Financial Oven!
pi314159 wrote:I wouldn't take it seriously the idea of artificially flooded tracks.
good_Ralf wrote:What if, somehow, Jordan were powered by Mercedes engines for 2000?
go_Rubens wrote:good_Ralf wrote:What if, somehow, Jordan were powered by Mercedes engines for 2000?
There would have been more engine failures
go_Rubens wrote:good_Ralf wrote:What if, somehow, Jordan were powered by Mercedes engines for 2000?
There would have been more engine failures
good_Ralf wrote:go_Rubens wrote:good_Ralf wrote:What if, somehow, Jordan were powered by Mercedes engines for 2000?
There would have been more engine failures
Really? I just asked this question because the Jordan EJ10 is cool looking and it should have a little quicker and way more reliable and therefore I thought a Mercedes combination would work.
Kimi-ICE wrote:I've got one
What if Valtteri Bottas got chosen to race for Williams in 2012?
good_Ralf wrote:Kimi-ICE wrote:I've got one
What if Valtteri Bottas got chosen to race for Williams in 2012?
Podiums and even a maiden would be likely.
good_Ralf wrote:go_Rubens wrote:good_Ralf wrote:What if, somehow, Jordan were powered by Mercedes engines for 2000?
There would have been more engine failures
Really? I just asked this question because the Jordan EJ10 is cool looking and it should have a little quicker and way more reliable and therefore I thought a Mercedes combination would work.
Shadaza wrote:good_Ralf wrote:Kimi-ICE wrote:I've got one
What if Valtteri Bottas got chosen to race for Williams in 2012?
Podiums and even a maiden would be likely.
Oh la la, I think most F1 drivers can pick up maidens. Except maybe Chilton, he has to be in bed by 7pm.
Shadaza wrote:Except maybe Chilton, he has to be in bed by 7pm.
ibsey wrote:Also according to EJ’s book, Jordan was close to tieing up a deal to run Mercedes engines for (IIRC) 2004. And badging them as ‘Smart’ engines. To promote the newly released ‘Smart’ cars, which I believe are owed by Mercedes. Can’t remember now why it didn’t happen though. Knowing what I know about him, EJ probably felt Mercedes were asking for too much money.
shinji wrote:ibsey wrote:Also according to EJ’s book, Jordan was close to tieing up a deal to run Mercedes engines for (IIRC) 2004. And badging them as ‘Smart’ engines. To promote the newly released ‘Smart’ cars, which I believe are owed by Mercedes. Can’t remember now why it didn’t happen though. Knowing what I know about him, EJ probably felt Mercedes were asking for too much money.
Given how McLaren got on with their Merc engines in 2004/5, that may not have been a great move all considered.
shinji wrote:ibsey wrote:Also according to EJ’s book, Jordan was close to tieing up a deal to run Mercedes engines for (IIRC) 2004. And badging them as ‘Smart’ engines. To promote the newly released ‘Smart’ cars, which I believe are owed by Mercedes. Can’t remember now why it didn’t happen though. Knowing what I know about him, EJ probably felt Mercedes were asking for too much money.
Given how McLaren got on with their Merc engines in 2004/5, that may not have been a great move all considered.
Salamander wrote:shinji wrote:ibsey wrote:Also according to EJ’s book, Jordan was close to tieing up a deal to run Mercedes engines for (IIRC) 2004. And badging them as ‘Smart’ engines. To promote the newly released ‘Smart’ cars, which I believe are owed by Mercedes. Can’t remember now why it didn’t happen though. Knowing what I know about him, EJ probably felt Mercedes were asking for too much money.
Given how McLaren got on with their Merc engines in 2004/5, that may not have been a great move all considered.
Even then I imagine it would be a step up from the Fords they ran.
Eddie Jordan wrote:At Imola in the spring of that same year (2003), I had an exploratory meeting with Norbert Haug, the competitions boss of Mercedes. We had discussed the possibility of having customer Mercedes engines for the following season, 2004. It was an interesting proposal. Mercedes owned Smart and they were wondering how best to promote this range of small cars. The plan was to badge our engines "Smart" and, as part of the deal, we would provide a drive for the McLaren-Mercedes B-list driver Gary Paffett. It was a neat plan that would be inexpensive for us and provide us with a good engine.
...
In late July at Silverstone, [Jurgen] Huppert came to see me and asked why I had not told him we had told him we had a contract with Ford for 2004. In fact, we had a contract with release options and I pointed out that a get-out clause would shortly come into force. Ford, who didn't know about the Mercedes option, were delaying settling on a deal for 2004 in the hope that, late in the day, we would have no alternative by which time they could ask for not 10 million Euros, but 18 million Euros. I told Huppert there would be no difficulty in switching to the Mercedes engine and proved it by showing the relevant part of the Ford contract at the next race at Hockenheim.
Meanwhile, Parry-Jones was under pressure from Ford in Detroit. The Jaguar team were haemorrhaging money, looking unlikely to win a race and paying Eddie Irvine $10 million a year. Jaguar has the best technology but the team seemed to lack the passion and commitment. Parry-Jones had responded to none of my letters. I would reach a new level of blasphemy when I just found out what Parry-Jones had been up to behind the scenes.
On race day at Hockenheim, Huppert told me that Mercedes would be unable to do a deal for the supply of engines. I was informed that Parry-Jones had threatened to pull Ford out of the GPWC and hasten its possible collapse if the remaining manufacturers did not agree to Ford supplying all of the independent teams with engines, and not at 10 million Euros. The manufacturers in a captive position agreed. Our deal with Mercedes had been scuppered by Ford's tactics.
ibsey wrote:Shadaza wrote:Except maybe Chilton, he has to be in bed by 7pm.
...no doubt accompanied by someone
When you have a hair cut as good as Max's. That is how you will roll.
Ataxia wrote:From EJ's autobiography:Eddie Jordan wrote:At Imola in the spring of that same year (2003), I had an exploratory meeting with Norbert Haug, the competitions boss of Mercedes. We had discussed the possibility of having customer Mercedes engines for the following season, 2004. It was an interesting proposal. Mercedes owned Smart and they were wondering how best to promote this range of small cars. The plan was to badge our engines "Smart" and, as part of the deal, we would provide a drive for the McLaren-Mercedes B-list driver Gary Paffett. It was a neat plan that would be inexpensive for us and provide us with a good engine.
...
In late July at Silverstone, [Jurgen] Huppert came to see me and asked why I had not told him we had told him we had a contract with Ford for 2004. In fact, we had a contract with release options and I pointed out that a get-out clause would shortly come into force. Ford, who didn't know about the Mercedes option, were delaying settling on a deal for 2004 in the hope that, late in the day, we would have no alternative by which time they could ask for not 10 million Euros, but 18 million Euros. I told Huppert there would be no difficulty in switching to the Mercedes engine and proved it by showing the relevant part of the Ford contract at the next race at Hockenheim.
Meanwhile, Parry-Jones was under pressure from Ford in Detroit. The Jaguar team were haemorrhaging money, looking unlikely to win a race and paying Eddie Irvine $10 million a year. Jaguar has the best technology but the team seemed to lack the passion and commitment. Parry-Jones had responded to none of my letters. I would reach a new level of blasphemy when I just found out what Parry-Jones had been up to behind the scenes.
On race day at Hockenheim, Huppert told me that Mercedes would be unable to do a deal for the supply of engines. I was informed that Parry-Jones had threatened to pull Ford out of the GPWC and hasten its possible collapse if the remaining manufacturers did not agree to Ford supplying all of the independent teams with engines, and not at 10 million Euros. The manufacturers in a captive position agreed. Our deal with Mercedes had been scuppered by Ford's tactics.
TL;DR: Mercedes deal all but agreed, Ford pull the rug out from under their feet.
the Masked Lapwing wrote:Ataxia wrote:From EJ's autobiography:Eddie Jordan wrote:At Imola in the spring of that same year (2003), I had an exploratory meeting with Norbert Haug, the competitions boss of Mercedes. We had discussed the possibility of having customer Mercedes engines for the following season, 2004. It was an interesting proposal. Mercedes owned Smart and they were wondering how best to promote this range of small cars. The plan was to badge our engines "Smart" and, as part of the deal, we would provide a drive for the McLaren-Mercedes B-list driver Gary Paffett. It was a neat plan that would be inexpensive for us and provide us with a good engine.
...
In late July at Silverstone, [Jurgen] Huppert came to see me and asked why I had not told him we had told him we had a contract with Ford for 2004. In fact, we had a contract with release options and I pointed out that a get-out clause would shortly come into force. Ford, who didn't know about the Mercedes option, were delaying settling on a deal for 2004 in the hope that, late in the day, we would have no alternative by which time they could ask for not 10 million Euros, but 18 million Euros. I told Huppert there would be no difficulty in switching to the Mercedes engine and proved it by showing the relevant part of the Ford contract at the next race at Hockenheim.
Meanwhile, Parry-Jones was under pressure from Ford in Detroit. The Jaguar team were haemorrhaging money, looking unlikely to win a race and paying Eddie Irvine $10 million a year. Jaguar has the best technology but the team seemed to lack the passion and commitment. Parry-Jones had responded to none of my letters. I would reach a new level of blasphemy when I just found out what Parry-Jones had been up to behind the scenes.
On race day at Hockenheim, Huppert told me that Mercedes would be unable to do a deal for the supply of engines. I was informed that Parry-Jones had threatened to pull Ford out of the GPWC and hasten its possible collapse if the remaining manufacturers did not agree to Ford supplying all of the independent teams with engines, and not at 10 million Euros. The manufacturers in a captive position agreed. Our deal with Mercedes had been scuppered by Ford's tactics.
TL;DR: Mercedes deal all but agreed, Ford pull the rug out from under their feet.
So Paffett got screwed out of a drive? Poor guy...
good_Ralf wrote:What if Montoya hadn't retired in Indy in 2001?
Shadaza wrote:Oh la la, I think most F1 drivers can pick up maidens. Except maybe Chilton, he has to be in bed by 7pm.
go_Rubens wrote:good_Ralf wrote:What if Montoya hadn't retired in Indy in 2001?
The race or the CART series? Because him not moving to F1 was answered sometime earlier in this thread.
East Londoner wrote:What if Dario Franchitti had managed to secure an F1 seat about 10 to 12 years ago now, as he performed some tests for Jaguar in 2000? Might he have had better luck and chances to succeed than other drivers making the leap from CART/IndyCar to F1?
good_Ralf wrote:East Londoner wrote:What if Dario Franchitti had managed to secure an F1 seat about 10 to 12 years ago now, as he performed some tests for Jaguar in 2000? Might he have had better luck and chances to succeed than other drivers making the leap from CART/IndyCar to F1?
In the R2, podiums would have been likely when the car was good, but otherwise I'm not sure what he could have done. Dario might have been in the top 10 in 2001 because I think he was as pacy as Irvine. However, once Rahal got removed, the same might have happened to Franchitti and either he got into a midfield team or he returned to America.
What if Kobayashi made a good start at Spa in 2012?
takagi_for_the_win wrote:Oh, you make me laugh
Faustus wrote:takagi_for_the_win wrote:Oh, you make me laugh
It might have been likely but unfortunately for them the car was always rubbish.
takagi_for_the_win wrote:Faustus wrote:takagi_for_the_win wrote:Oh, you make me laugh
It might have been likely but unfortunately for them the car was always rubbish.
I believe Irvine called it the worst F1 car he'd ever driven, high praise indeed
Wizzie wrote:takagi_for_the_win wrote:I believe Irvine called it the worst F1 car he'd ever driven, high praise indeed
If the R2 was the worst car he's even driven, then what on earth did he think of the even more lamentable R3?
Ataxia wrote:
From EJ's autobiography:Eddie Jordan wrote:...
Meanwhile, Parry-Jones was under pressure from Ford in Detroit. The Jaguar team were haemorrhaging money, looking unlikely to win a race and paying Eddie Irvine $10 million a year. Jaguar has the best technology but the team seemed to lack the passion and commitment. Parry-Jones had responded to none of my letters. I would reach a new level of blasphemy when I just found out what Parry-Jones had been up to behind the scenes...
Ataxia wrote:From EJ's autobiography:
Eddie Jordan wrote:
At Imola in the spring of that same year (2003), I had an exploratory meeting with Norbert Haug, the competitions boss of Mercedes. We had discussed the possibility of having customer Mercedes engines for the following season, 2004. It was an interesting proposal. Mercedes owned Smart and they were wondering how best to promote this range of small cars. The plan was to badge our engines "Smart" and, as part of the deal, we would provide a drive for the McLaren-Mercedes B-list driver Gary Paffett. It was a neat plan that would be inexpensive for us and provide us with a good engine.
...
In late July at Silverstone, [Jurgen] Huppert came to see me and asked why I had not told him we had told him we had a contract with Ford for 2004. In fact, we had a contract with release options and I pointed out that a get-out clause would shortly come into force. Ford, who didn't know about the Mercedes option, were delaying settling on a deal for 2004 in the hope that, late in the day, we would have no alternative by which time they could ask for not 10 million Euros, but 18 million Euros. I told Huppert there would be no difficulty in switching to the Mercedes engine and proved it by showing the relevant part of the Ford contract at the next race at Hockenheim.
Meanwhile, Parry-Jones was under pressure from Ford in Detroit. The Jaguar team were haemorrhaging money, looking unlikely to win a race and paying Eddie Irvine $10 million a year. Jaguar has the best technology but the team seemed to lack the passion and commitment. Parry-Jones had responded to none of my letters. I would reach a new level of blasphemy when I just found out what Parry-Jones had been up to behind the scenes.
On race day at Hockenheim, Huppert told me that Mercedes would be unable to do a deal for the supply of engines. I was informed that Parry-Jones had threatened to pull Ford out of the GPWC and hasten its possible collapse if the remaining manufacturers did not agree to Ford supplying all of the independent teams with engines, and not at 10 million Euros. The manufacturers in a captive position agreed. Our deal with Mercedes had been scuppered by Ford's tactics.
TL;DR: Mercedes deal all but agreed, Ford pull the rug out from under their feet.
