Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **06 Nov 2013, 21:07**

If the current 22 drivers all race in the last 2 races, will we have seen the first F1 season with no driver changes at all in the season? 2000 and 2002 only had 1 change for 1 race, but I don't think there has ever been a season without any driver changes.

I jinxed it, didn't I?

Posted: **06 Nov 2013, 21:09**

andrew2209 wrote:If the current 22 drivers all race in the last 2 races, will we have seen the first F1 season with no driver changes at all in the season? 2000 and 2002 only had 1 change for 1 race, but I don't think there has ever been a season without any driver changes.

2008 had no driver changes, if you don't count the demise of Supa Aguri. 2012 also had just 1 driver change, with Grosjean getting banned and D'Ambrosio subbing.

Posted: **06 Nov 2013, 21:11**

OK, (2002 actually had 2, not 1 as i initially thought).

Posted: **06 Nov 2013, 21:53**

2012: If only, Romain, if only...

Posted: **06 Nov 2013, 22:37**

Aerospeed wrote:Does anyone around here know where to watch reruns of recent F1 races online?

No but I do watch old races that I have read about but wasn't alive/old enough to watch at the time.

Posted: **07 Nov 2013, 10:22**

watka wrote:
Aerospeed wrote:Does anyone around here know where to watch reruns of recent F1 races online?

No but I do watch old races that I have read about but wasn't alive/old enough to watch at the time.

Where do you do that? Youtube? I'm often on the hunt for old Adelaide races but full races seem to be few and far between.

Posted: **07 Nov 2013, 22:12**

andrew2209 wrote:If the current 22 drivers all race in the last 2 races, will we have seen the first F1 season with no driver changes at all in the season? 2000 and 2002 only had 1 change for 1 race, but I don't think there has ever been a season without any driver changes.

To my mind, 1998 also had no driver changes.

Posted: **07 Nov 2013, 22:13**

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:If the current 22 drivers all race in the last 2 races, will we have seen the first F1 season with no driver changes at all in the season? 2000 and 2002 only had 1 change for 1 race, but I don't think there has ever been a season without any driver changes.

To my mind, 1998 also had no driver changes.

Verstappen replaced Magnussen in the Stewart after Canada (After Jan scored a point in that race)

Posted: **07 Nov 2013, 22:43**

Jocke1 wrote:Has it been worth it these last four years? Have drivers been gunning for the podium in a different way? In my book, no.

Well, the main problem here is that no one has been really able to challenge for the win post-2009, so that also has it's effects on how drivers gun for the podium if someone's clearly out front.

Posted: **07 Nov 2013, 23:12**

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:If the current 22 drivers all race in the last 2 races, will we have seen the first F1 season with no driver changes at all in the season? 2000 and 2002 only had 1 change for 1 race, but I don't think there has ever been a season without any driver changes.

To my mind, 1998 also had no driver changes.

There was one, when Jan Magnussen was tossed out of Stewart in favour of Jos Verstappen.

Posted: **08 Nov 2013, 09:01**

Jos then caused a red flag on his Stewart debut by stalling on the grid. Ironic how he replaced the father of the driver we have been talking about recently...

Posted: **08 Nov 2013, 09:11**

good_Ralf wrote:Jos then caused a red flag on his Stewart debut by stalling on the grid. Ironic how he replaced the father of the driver we have been talking about recently...

Apologies if I'm being a fool here, but how is that irony? :lol:

Unless of course, you're using the Alanis Morissette definition of "irony".

Posted: **08 Nov 2013, 10:52**

East Londoner wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Jos then caused a red flag on his Stewart debut by stalling on the grid. Ironic how he replaced the father of the driver we have been talking about recently...

Apologies if I'm being a fool here, but how is that irony?

Has Verstappen got a son? Should Kevin be worried already?

Posted: **08 Nov 2013, 10:58**

CoopsII wrote:
East Londoner wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Jos then caused a red flag on his Stewart debut by stalling on the grid. Ironic how he replaced the father of the driver we have been talking about recently...

Apologies if I'm being a fool here, but how is that irony?

Has Verstappen got a son? Should Kevin be worried already?

Yes, Max Verstappen. But I think he is a bit too young atm

Posted: **08 Nov 2013, 18:20**

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
andrew2209 wrote:If the current 22 drivers all race in the last 2 races, will we have seen the first F1 season with no driver changes at all in the season? 2000 and 2002 only had 1 change for 1 race, but I don't think there has ever been a season without any driver changes.

To my mind, 1998 also had no driver changes.

As others have said, 1998 did have a driver change. However, in 2008 the only change in the entry lists for the whole season was Super Aguri's bankrupcy the Spanish GP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Formula_One_season

Posted: **09 Nov 2013, 00:05**

East Londoner wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Jos then caused a red flag on his Stewart debut by stalling on the grid. Ironic how he replaced the father of the driver we have been talking about recently...

Apologies if I'm being a fool here, but how is that irony?

Unless of course, you're using the Alanis Morissette definition of "irony".

Stewart Francis explains irony pretty well.

Posted: **09 Nov 2013, 09:00**

eurobrun wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Has Verstappen got a son? Should Kevin be worried already?

Yes, Max Verstappen. But I think he is a bit too young atm

Max Verstappen is 16 now and will start his first season in single seaters, in Formula Renault 2.0, next year.
Maybe in four or five years we will see him knocking on the door of F1. He has good genes with both his father and mother having been racing drivers.
According to Jos, Max is a much more mature racing driver than Jos was at that age, so I think he does stand a chance.

Posted: **14 Nov 2013, 21:05**

If he was still alive what would Colin McRae think of the current state of F1 considering that he was renowned for going flat-out in a WRC car and F1 these days is anything but Flat-out

Posted: **14 Nov 2013, 22:22**

Well McRae would probably win the modern day equivalent of this race because neo-Herbert would go into tyre conservation mode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcNJG2npGXc

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 09:44**

How many times has a driver followed a winning season with a pointless one? This definitely applies to Herbert in 1999 and 2000 and almost applied to Maldonado in 2012 and 2013.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 10:34**

good_Ralf wrote:How many times has a driver followed a winning season with a pointless one? This definitely applies to Herbert in 1999 and 2000 and almost applied to Maldonado in 2012 and 2013.

It nearly happened to Nelson Piquet Sr in 1988 IIRC

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 10:38**

roblomas52 wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:How many times has a driver followed a winning season with a pointless one? This definitely applies to Herbert in 1999 and 2000 and almost applied to Maldonado in 2012 and 2013.

It nearly happened to Nelson Piquet Sr in 1988 IIRC

No, he scored 22 points that year.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 10:41**

good_Ralf wrote:How many times has a driver followed a winning season with a pointless one? This definitely applies to Herbert in 1999 and 2000 and almost applied to Maldonado in 2012 and 2013.

If fastest laps didn't count for points then, Ascari in 1954?

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 10:51**

I found one. Thierry Boutsen 1991.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 11:32**

Jody Schekter won the WDC in 1979, then scored only 2 points in 1980, plus a DNQ... For the same team!

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 16:39**

Mansell won one in '94... and then went to McLaren. :lol:

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 17:34**

If we're going to be wholly tasteless, Ayrton Senna would apply.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 17:37**

Is it possible for a Champion to have his title rescinded? Coulthard made a comment about how, despite all the celebrating in India, Vettel wont actually be 'crowned' as champion until well after Brazil. Is it technically possible for Vettel, say, to break a tonne of rules at several races and have so many points deducted that in actual fact someone else inherits the title? Is that possible?

I only use Vettel as an example of a driver who's one with plenty of races yet to do, could be anyone.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 17:40**

takagi_for_the_win wrote:If we're going to be wholly tasteless, Ayrton Senna would apply.

That was tasteless. Anyway he was in a fast racing car so it wouldn't exactly count. If he was (a whole lot) luckier and more consistent he would have won all of the first 3 races and then some.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 17:51**

good_Ralf wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:If we're going to be wholly tasteless, Ayrton Senna would apply.

That was tasteless. Anyway he was in a fast racing car so it wouldn't exactly count. If he was (a whole lot) luckier and more consistent he would have won all of the first 3 races and then some.

If sources prove right didn't Senna plan to go to the end of 2000 and retire if he lived? If so had he stayed at Williams in 98-00 how far could he have dragged it up considering in the hands of Villeneuve, Frentzen, Ralf and to some extent Button it was a podium challenger on a good day?

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 17:56**

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:If we're going to be wholly tasteless, Ayrton Senna would apply.

That was tasteless. Anyway he was in a fast racing car so it wouldn't exactly count. If he was (a whole lot) luckier and more consistent he would have won all of the first 3 races and then some.

If sources prove right didn't Senna plan to go to the end of 2000 and retire if he lived? If so had he stayed at Williams in 98-00 how far could he have dragged it up considering in the hands of Villeneuve, Frentzen, Ralf and to some extent Button it was a podium challenger on a good day?

Ireckon Senna would have been champ in 1995/1996/1997 as well.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 17:59**

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:If sources prove right didn't Senna plan to go to the end of 2000 and retire if he lived? If so had he stayed at Williams in 98-00 how far could he have dragged it up considering in the hands of Villeneuve, Frentzen, Ralf and to some extent Button it was a podium challenger on a good day?

I read he was thinking of going to Ferrari as well. which of course is where successor Rubens went to.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 18:02**

roblomas52 wrote:I reckon Senna would have been champ in 1995/1996/1997 as well.

I think we all know that might be possible but what I mean is would he have been able to get the 1998-2000 Williams cars to Victories and Frequent Podiums?

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 18:05**

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:If sources prove right didn't Senna plan to go to the end of 2000 and retire if he lived? If so had he stayed at Williams in 98-00 how far could he have dragged it up considering in the hands of Villeneuve, Frentzen, Ralf and to some extent Button it was a podium challenger on a good day?

According to his manager, he had already received a draft contract for a Ferrari seat for either 1996 or 1997- off the top of my head I can't remember which- so, to answer your question, he wouldn't have dragged those Williams' into winning positions, primarily because he would've been a Ferrari driver.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 18:08**

A bit off topic, but I notice that Ferrari is selling their T-shirts in blue as well as the traditional red:

http://f1store.formula1.com/stores/f1/products/product_details.aspx?pid=139987

Is Ferrari stealthlily celebrating the time it raced in blue and white as NART in 1964? Or maybe Ferrari is deciding to finally change its color scheme after all of these years?

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 18:55**

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:If we're going to be wholly tasteless, Ayrton Senna would apply.

That was tasteless. Anyway he was in a fast racing car so it wouldn't exactly count. If he was (a whole lot) luckier and more consistent he would have won all of the first 3 races and then some.

If sources prove right didn't Senna plan to go to the end of 2000 and retire if he lived? If so had he stayed at Williams in 98-00 how far could he have dragged it up considering in the hands of Villeneuve, Frentzen, Ralf and to some extent Button it was a podium challenger on a good day?

If he'd survived (without having had his crash), I reckon he'd won the 94 and 95 title, and continued at Williams, winning the 96 and 97 titles, and would've been a contender in 98,99 and 00., but being unsuccessful. Whether or not the BMW deal would encouraged a 41 year old Ayrton Senna to race in 2001 and any later is tough to say.
If he'd survived, but still had his crash, I believe he'd retired immediately after the San Marino GP.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 18:59**

andrew2209 wrote:If he'd survived (without having had his crash), I reckon he'd won the 94 and 95 title, and continued at Williams, winning the 96 and 97 titles, and would've been a contender in 98,99 and 00., but being unsuccessful. Whether or not the BMW deal would encouraged a 41 year old Ayrton Senna to race in 2001 and any later is tough to say.
If he'd survived, but still had his crash, I believe he'd retired immediately after the San Marino GP.

I wonder what Senna would have done after retirement. Would he have helped get nephew Bruno into F1 or would he have contended in other forms of motorsport? Then again he might have tried to expand his businesses or become a TV pundit. Or all four at once?

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 22:23**

good_Ralf wrote:I wonder what Senna would have done after retirement. Would he have helped get nephew Bruno into F1 or would he have contended in other forms of motorsport? Then again he might have tried to expand his businesses or become a TV pundit. Or all four at once?

Well seeing as he had successfully negotiated to be the sole official Brazilian importer of luxury goods, including Mont Blanc pens and Audi cars I believe, that would imply that he was inclined to follow in his fathers footsteps and move to a life of business.

Posted: **15 Nov 2013, 22:35**

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:I wonder what Senna would have done after retirement. Would he have helped get nephew Bruno into F1 or would he have contended in other forms of motorsport? Then again he might have tried to expand his businesses or become a TV pundit. Or all four at once?

Well seeing as he had successfully negotiated to be the sole official Brazilian importer of luxury goods, including Mont Blanc pens and Audi cars I believe, that would imply that he was inclined to follow in his fathers footsteps and move to a life of business.

Yawn

I dont wish to sound fatalistic but these days I cant imagine any other ending for Senna other than the one he gave us.

Posted: **16 Nov 2013, 08:09**

CoopsII wrote:Is it possible for a Champion to have his title rescinded? Coulthard made a comment about how, despite all the celebrating in India, Vettel wont actually be 'crowned' as champion until well after Brazil. Is it technically possible for Vettel, say, to break a tonne of rules at several races and have so many points deducted that in actual fact someone else inherits the title? Is that possible?

I only use Vettel as an example of a driver who's one with plenty of races yet to do, could be anyone.

I suppose that it is theoretically possible - the FIA technically awards the drivers title at the post season gala dinner for the drivers, so in principle it would be possible for a driver who has effectively won the title to void his entitlement to the title before then. That said, points penalties are very rare (there aren't any real provisions for that in the regulations) - I suppose that the slightly more likely scenario would be somebody driving for a team that was then disqualified for technical infringements before the end of the season, like Tyrrell in 1984, which could then create a scenario where a driver was stripped of his title before the official ceremony.

Grand Prix Rejects

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