Grand Prix Rejects

cbbcisace wrote:They was doing back to back comparisons. Pedro had it towards to end of FP1 and has it now on.

Oh. I've rather meant his overall improvement over the recent races.

solarcold wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:They was doing back to back comparisons. Pedro had it towards to end of FP1 and has it now on.

Oh. I've rather meant his overall improvement over the recent races.

I agree with you, maybe its down to the fact he may be leaving the team so has to prove something?

cbbcisace wrote:

solarcold wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:They was doing back to back comparisons. Pedro had it towards to end of FP1 and has it now on.

Oh. I've rather meant his overall improvement over the recent races.

I agree with you, maybe its down to the fact he may be leaving the team so has to prove something?

Most probably
By the way... PEDRO 21ST

First top 20 start for HRT?

Myrvold wrote:First top 20 start for HRT?

No. In the 2010 Belgian Grand Prix, Senna and Yamamoto started 18th and 19th, respectively. I can't remember any other races where they started in the top 20.

Meatwad wrote:

Myrvold wrote:First top 20 start for HRT?

No. In the 2010 Belgian Grand Prix, Senna and Yamamoto started 18th and 19th, respectively. I can't remember any other races where they started in the top 20.

I knew there was a race where they made it into the top 20 during 2010 but I thought it was in Malaysia when Ferrari and McLaren bathplugged it up badly by leaving their runs far too late in Q1. Turns out they were only 22nd and 23rd that day

Meatwad wrote:

Myrvold wrote:First top 20 start for HRT?

No. In the 2010 Belgian Grand Prix, Senna and Yamamoto started 18th and 19th, respectively. I can't remember any other races where they started in the top 20.

Ouch, as a Senna-fan, I must admit, that one hurt!

Good qualifying from Pedro today, that new floor seems to have given them abit of a boost.

Just noted that there is a Tetley sponsor on the rear wing for this weekend...

As a yorkshireman and HRT fan, this is truly brilliant.

slowest_indian wrote:Good qualifying from Pedro today, that new floor seems to have given them abit of a boost.

Just noted that there is a Tetley sponsor on the rear wing for this weekend...

As a yorkshireman and HRT fan, this is truly brilliant.

Becuase TATA own Tetley it is supposed to be the sponsor keeping Narain in his seat post India so I hear.

TATA Tea in Singapore, Tetley here... Depends which one is more known I suppose.

http://www.tataglobalbeverages.com/ <- all the brands here... So different stickers could be on that rear wing every weekend

Clos back in for FP1 for Korea

http://www.hrtf1team.com/en/noticias/pr ... fQWhZ.html

New Rear Wing for HRT this weekend.

David AGS wrote:Clos back in for FP1 for Korea

http://www.hrtf1team.com/en/noticias/pr ... fQWhZ.html

A race seat next year is looking more and more likely...

cbbcisace wrote:New Rear Wing for HRT this weekend.

Pics pl0x. Lets dissect this thing.

http://yfrog.com/kf9bhltj

Just fitted to Pedros car now...

Decent race today I guess.

I'd say pretty poor even for HRT today, Narain finished 82s beind Pic! Nearly a lap down!! Pedro issue again was safety related, but it shows to me that Holzer have produced a sub standard car, that is why HRT have brought in Carbotech to build the F113.

How overweight are we talking here for the F112? as I know they where pretty certain to run kers this year before the tests started

cbbcisace wrote:I'd say pretty poor even for HRT today, Narain finished 82s beind Pic! Nearly a lap down!! Pedro issue again was safety related, but it shows to me that Holzer have produced a sub standard car, that is why HRT have brought in Carbotech to build the F113.

I thought Carbotech already had an association with HRT

eurobrun wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:I'd say pretty poor even for HRT today, Narain finished 82s beind Pic! Nearly a lap down!! Pedro issue again was safety related, but it shows to me that Holzer have produced a sub standard car, that is why HRT have brought in Carbotech to build the F113.

I thought Carbotech already had an association with HRT

I'm fairly sure that Carbotech built the chassis for their 2011 car, which is where that association would come from.

eurobrun wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:I'd say pretty poor even for HRT today, Narain finished 82s beind Pic! Nearly a lap down!! Pedro issue again was safety related, but it shows to me that Holzer have produced a sub standard car, that is why HRT have brought in Carbotech to build the F113.

I thought Carbotech already had an association with HRT

For the F111 yes.... Kolles signed a contract with Holzer because they was a lot cheaper than Carbotech, but the build quality is pretty awful tbh.

The team have sorted the weight difference out from not using KERS but they are still a little overweight.

So that's why Carbotech are being used again!

cbbcisace wrote:

eurobrun wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:I'd say pretty poor even for HRT today, Narain finished 82s beind Pic! Nearly a lap down!! Pedro issue again was safety related, but it shows to me that Holzer have produced a sub standard car, that is why HRT have brought in Carbotech to build the F113.

I thought Carbotech already had an association with HRT

For the F111 yes.... Kolles signed a contract with Holzer because they was a lot cheaper than Carbotech, but the build quality is pretty awful tbh.

The team have sorted the weight difference out from not using KERS but they are still a little overweight.

So that's why Carbotech are being used again!

Would that be an explanation for the brake trouble HRT have had over the season?

They have had a lot of trouble to be honest, they still get over heating with the exhausts at the back of the car.

Brakes is an oversight as they can manage it, it's just has shoddy workmanship, the side pods don't fit correctly, the exhausts outlets aren't correct, the rear suspension has to have heat shielding on too, because it gets too hot!

At the start of the season the noses didn't fit correctly..

And it was built entirely by Holzer.
Talk about German quality

All jokes aside - do HRT have their own production department at Caja Magica, or they keep using Holzer's services? Any information on that?

Pointrox wrote:And it was built entirely by Holzer.
Talk about German quality

All jokes aside - do HRT have their own production department at Caja Magica, or they keep using Holzer's services? Any information on that?

They are bringing in small/medium production items into Madrid, they have used Holzer this year but it will end at the end if this season.

Well recently there has been some Narain bashing in this forum. I thought, maybe I could bring some light behind his recent performances and show you all, what the real deal is.

Let's start of with the last race, Korea:

A few of you guys gave Narain a bad rating for the race. It's true: at the end he was aroung 80 seconds behind Pic. But, let't take a closer look to the numbers:

Practice 2: Narain was faster then PDLR, but still 0.802 seconds behind the next fastest car, Petrov.
Practice 3: Narain was faster then PDLR, but still 0.783 seconds behind the next fastest car, Glock.
Q1: Due to his brakes failing on the outlap, no time posted. His practice 3 time was still faster then PDLR Q1 and P3 time, and would have been 1.474 seconds slower than Glock's fastest lap.

The race: Narain was on a one-stop strategy, Pic on a two-stop strategy.
So doing the numbers, Narain lost around 1.5 seconds every lap. Until lap 48 he lost about 1 second a lap. But with old tyres and another round of blue flags and traffic he lost around 32 seconds in the last 5 laps!

So in my opinion until Lap 48, Narain did, what his car was able to do: loosing 1 second a lap. Compared to the times in practice, it was the number you had to expect. So in my opinion, strategy was not on Narain's side. Doing a one-stop strategy, with a car eating tyres up worse than the W03, you couldn't expect something else...

Zetec wrote:Well recently there has been some Narain bashing in this forum. I thought, maybe I could bring some light behind his recent performances and show you all, what the real deal is.

Let's start of with the last race, Korea:

A few of you guys gave Narain a bad rating for the race. It's true: at the end he was aroung 80 seconds behind Pic. But, let't take a closer look to the numbers:

Practice 2: Narain was faster then PDLR, but still 0.802 seconds behind the next fastest car, Petrov.
Practice 3: Narain was faster then PDLR, but still 0.783 seconds behind the next fastest car, Glock.
Q1: Due to his brakes failing on the outlap, no time posted. His practice 3 time was still faster then PDLR Q1 and P3 time, and would have been 1.474 seconds slower than Glock's fastest lap.

The race: Narain was on a one-stop strategy, Pic on a two-stop strategy.
So doing the numbers, Narain lost around 1.5 seconds every lap. Until lap 48 he lost about 1 second a lap. But with old tyres and another round of blue flags and traffic he lost around 32 seconds in the last 5 laps!

So in my opinion until Lap 48, Narain did, what his car was able to do: loosing 1 second a lap. Compared to the times in practice, it was the number you had to expect. So in my opinion, strategy was not on Narain's side. Doing a one-stop strategy, with a car eating tyres up worse than the W03, you couldn't expect something else...

Sorry I should just say that it's not all down to Narain but in my opinion he is not a F1 driver.

cbbcisace wrote:

Zetec wrote:Well recently there has been some Narain bashing in this forum. I thought, maybe I could bring some light behind his recent performances and show you all, what the real deal is.

Let's start of with the last race, Korea:

A few of you guys gave Narain a bad rating for the race. It's true: at the end he was aroung 80 seconds behind Pic. But, let't take a closer look to the numbers:

Practice 2: Narain was faster then PDLR, but still 0.802 seconds behind the next fastest car, Petrov.
Practice 3: Narain was faster then PDLR, but still 0.783 seconds behind the next fastest car, Glock.
Q1: Due to his brakes failing on the outlap, no time posted. His practice 3 time was still faster then PDLR Q1 and P3 time, and would have been 1.474 seconds slower than Glock's fastest lap.

The race: Narain was on a one-stop strategy, Pic on a two-stop strategy.
So doing the numbers, Narain lost around 1.5 seconds every lap. Until lap 48 he lost about 1 second a lap. But with old tyres and another round of blue flags and traffic he lost around 32 seconds in the last 5 laps!

So in my opinion until Lap 48, Narain did, what his car was able to do: loosing 1 second a lap. Compared to the times in practice, it was the number you had to expect. So in my opinion, strategy was not on Narain's side. Doing a one-stop strategy, with a car eating tyres up worse than the W03, you couldn't expect something else...

Sorry I should just say that it's not all down to Narain but in my opinion he is not a F1 driver.

I don't think PDLR is driving to the best of his abilities ATM, as he can beat cucumber hands down. And we all know how 'fast' Narain is....

HRT thread was nearly shoved to page 2 so Im posting here so It can get back on top! (Not the case)

First time for this season I presume HRT getting support in India, at least before FP1.

Bit surprised that there isnt more corporate decals on the car, as last year with Base and Hero decals made the car look better.

The TATA logo has a chequered green and yellow backround is the only difference.

Encouraging to see that they have a small upgrade here, not sure what it is but a positive sign. DLR did try a new rear wing in FP1 in last race.

I think the update is the rear wing Pedro tried in Korea on both cars =) I could be wrong though!

It's not a surprise re more sponsors the weekend, Narain hasn't done enough work to get those sponsors!

Even more rumours that it is Narains last race this weekend.

David AGS wrote:The TATA logo has a chequered green and yellow backround is the only difference.

Encouraging to see that they have a small upgrade here, not sure what it is but a positive sign. DLR did try a new rear wing in FP1 in last race.

Aye, it looks like they've glued a pack of Cheese and Onion Squares on the rear endplate...

Ohhh what can I say! HRT have a fundamental issue with cooling the brakes, whether its the brake ducts or the fact the FW isn't helping air flow =[

Also watching Narain on board yesterday the side pods where lifting up, another point to Holzer shoddy workmanship.

Wouldn't it be nice if KH-7 became HRT's title sponsor? That would make for a cracking livery, I think.

Waris wrote:Wouldn't it be nice if KH-7 became HRT's title sponsor? That would make for a cracking livery, I think.

Whenever I see KH-7, I keep thinking of seeing a sign saying K-7 outside a music shop in Avignon when I lived there in 2003-4. Took me months to realise that it meant one of these:

cbbcisace wrote:Ohhh what can I say! HRT have a fundamental issue with cooling the brakes, whether its the brake ducts or the fact the FW isn't helping air flow =[

Also watching Narain on board yesterday the side pods where lifting up, another point to Holzer shoddy workmanship.

The problem isn't the brakes itself; it's more a problem of a frontwing, who was designed for the F111, and now, with marginal changes, used for the F112. The F112 has a different suspension-layout, and so the brake-ducts are in a position, where the airflow generated by the frontwing is obviously not ideal for the cooling.

Even the F111 was marginal with its brakes. And comparing the different frontwings they used. Look how the frontwing is evolving:





So actually, they put the old-F111-FW cascades back to the new-F112-FW... It's obviously not about designing a new car and more about assembling the car with existing parts. And they took the old F111-FW as their new F112-FW.
Now I know what their new design-department is doing back in their "magic box".

Qinghua Ma is driving FP1 in Abu Dhabi, replacing Narain.

Zetec wrote:

cbbcisace wrote:Ohhh what can I say! HRT have a fundamental issue with cooling the brakes, whether its the brake ducts or the fact the FW isn't helping air flow =[

Also watching Narain on board yesterday the side pods where lifting up, another point to Holzer shoddy workmanship.

The problem isn't the brakes itself; it's more a problem of a frontwing, who was designed for the F111, and now, with marginal changes, used for the F112. The F112 has a different suspension-layout, and so the brake-ducts are in a position, where the airflow generated by the frontwing is obviously not ideal for the cooling.

Even the F111 was marginal with its brakes. And comparing the different frontwings they used. Look how the frontwing is evolving:





So actually, they put the old-F111-FW cascades back to the new-F112-FW... It's obviously not about designing a new car and more about assembling the car with existing parts. And they took the old F111-FW as their new F112-FW.
Now I know what their new design-department is doing back in their "magic box".

Well, keep in mind that this has been a very slow year for them ,where all their efforts and money has gone into stabilizing the team, what with their new base in Madrid and whatnot. It's not surprising for them to be forced to do this. Next year, more than likely, they'll be able to put up a fight in the development race.

I've found a positive - the brakes didn't fail!!

Shame about the tyre blanket mishap - amateurish isn't the word.

I had to feel sorry for Narain though - I think he was trying to get out of the way and Rosberg just didn't quite read it in time. Let's all remind ourselves that this wasn't a million miles away from Mass / Villeneuve (though probably not at such high speed) and thank our lucky stars how safe things are now.
Jackie Stewart will be along to take all the credit for it in a minute...

When was the last time HRT managed to finish on the lead lap? Cause they did today.

I don't think they ever have? 1 Lap down was the previous best I thought. Was quite heartening to see Caterham, Marussia and HRT back all within a second of each other almost in quali. I do wonder if HRT can run full steam all race long with those brakes. Narain was lucky to walk away today. Scary one.

Sitorimon wrote:I don't think they ever have? 1 Lap down was the previous best I thought. Was quite heartening to see Caterham, Marussia and HRT back all within a second of each other almost in quali. I do wonder if HRT can run full steam all race long with those brakes. Narain was lucky to walk away today. Scary one.

I think HRT managed their brakes/engine temps a lot better this race, and I think that helped a little on the performance side, which they mentioned frequently in their press releases. According to that same press releases, they also had a new engine air intake, which from my very basic F1 development knowledge would mean a new airbox, but It looked similar. The internal intake (normally black!) may have changed though. Here are bits of those press releases from their website:

FRIDAY
The Abu Dhabi Grand Prix got underway today at the spectacular Yas Marina Circuit with the first free practice sessions. In the morning, Ma Qing Hua stepped into the F112 once again and accompanied Pedro de la Rosa for the third time this season in FP1. The Chinese driver’s programme consisted of engine mapping tests and basic set-up of the car to round it off with a longer run where he was able to get more out of the car. Pedro de la Rosa dedicated the entire day to working on the set-up of his car besides testing different configurations to evaluate the cooling of the brakes and both tyre compounds. His teammate, Narain Karthikeyan, who returned in the afternoon session, only had 90 minutes to adapt to an, until today, unknown track but still had no trouble in completing his programme with both tyres.

SATURDAY

The third free practice session and qualifying which took place at the Yas Marina Circuit today in Abu Dhabi were positive overall for HRT Formula 1 Team. The optimization of the aero package introduced recently, added to new engine air intake and an improved set-up of the car, enabled Pedro de la Rosa and Narain Karthikeyan to improve their performance at the wheel of the F112 and cut down the gap to the team’s direct rivals. Pedro de la Rosa and Narain Karthikeyan finished qualifying in 23rd and 24th position respectively.

It must be said though, the lap is fairly long so unless something major happens (problem), the max. you will get is 2-3 laps off pace. There were 2 (on memory) Safety car appearances which obviously narrowed the gap.