Grand Prix Rejects

pher38 wrote:http://www.pitpass.com/images/galleries/2010launchhrt/2010launchhrt_s005.jpg

http://www.pitpass.com/images/galleries ... t_s003.jpg

The new car has been released!!!! Is it me or does the new HRT Dallara look suspiciously like the car Wirth Research produced for Virgin??

i find it beautiful... what about you guys?

kostas22 wrote:

eytl wrote:For us Aussies, HRT means one thing, and one thing only ... the mighty HOLDEN RACING TEAM!!!

Does that make you the motorsport equivalent of a bisexual then? Because I can see a Ford Falcon Ute as your avatar...what a sh*tbox.

No, I am a Holden man. Not quite to fanboy status though. As for the avatar, I support the driver (Andrew Fisher) and the cause he represents. If he drove a Holden it would be even better

P_Friesacher wrote:Also a whole host of other things, most importantly "the average length of time that a soluble compound remains in a constructed reactor" (Hydraulic retention time).
Edit (redundant): And Tom Walkinshaw's V8 Supercars racing team.

I object! Hostage Rescue Team fits better after imaging Kolles & Carabante in FBI uniforms, rescuing those kept against owners will chassis from the Dallara factory.

Popi_Larrauri wrote:

P_Friesacher wrote:Also a whole host of other things, most importantly "the average length of time that a soluble compound remains in a constructed reactor" (Hydraulic retention time).
Edit (redundant): And Tom Walkinshaw's V8 Supercars racing team.

I object! Hostage Rescue Team fits better after imaging Kolles & Carabante in FBI uniforms, rescuing those kept against owners will chassis from the Dallara factory.

Oh man, that's brilliant.

Pastel grey and a smudge of yellow among a few other colours... i think it looks awful

mario wrote:But on a serious note, does he really believe that he can beat both the Lotus and Virgin Racing entries, bearing in mind that both of the other entries have proven that their cars work and have both got upgrades in the pipeline (both are bringing new bits to Bahrein, and Lotus is currently working on its Barcelona package for the European leg of the world championship)? Somehow, I doubt that very much - where's the publiciocrap meter when you need it?

Went through the roof, that's why you can't find it... I must say I take everythong Kolles with a pinch of salt. He always seemed to be involved in all the problems in Midland/Spyker - although the fact there was no money around to help things along probably made them no favours. And back then he had a penchant for sweeping confident statements. Anyway, take my own opinion of Kolles with a pinch of salt as well, the avatar should explain why.

Like the car, as I like the Virgin. Looks fast while stopped, which is nice. Funny how they both look shorter than the McLaren, for instance. I know (have read) that the Williams this year has a shorter wheelbase because the team developed a short-than-everyone-else gearbox; maybe the XTrak that comes attached to the Cosworth engine is shorter as well? And maybe that's why these cars have a different nose?

Also, interesting to see how the CFD "computer says no" Virgin looks to similar to at least another car on the grid.

MaxZero wrote:Pastel grey and a smudge of yellow among a few other colours... i think it looks awful

What would you prefer then? Another blue and white combination? Or a reversal of their colours? That would just make them look like a Sauber.

Captain Hammer wrote:

MaxZero wrote:Pastel grey and a smudge of yellow among a few other colours... i think it looks awful

What would you prefer then? Another blue and white combination? Or a reversal of their colours? That would just make them look like a Sauber.

Those stripes look just ridiculous, unless they planned to get some sponsors along the way to fill the white. Although maybe the whole Spanish colors on those bands would've been even more heinous.

Phoenix wrote:

Captain Hammer wrote:

MaxZero wrote:Pastel grey and a smudge of yellow among a few other colours... i think it looks awful

What would you prefer then? Another blue and white combination? Or a reversal of their colours? That would just make them look like a Sauber.

Those stripes look just ridiculous, unless they planned to get some sponsors along the way to fill the white. Although maybe the whole Spanish colors on those bands would've been even more heinous.

Well, I like the look of it. Black and orange, yeah. Want to see how it looks in daylight, the light in that studio was awful.

CarlosFerreira wrote:

mario wrote:But on a serious note, does he really believe that he can beat both the Lotus and Virgin Racing entries, bearing in mind that both of the other entries have proven that their cars work and have both got upgrades in the pipeline (both are bringing new bits to Bahrein, and Lotus is currently working on its Barcelona package for the European leg of the world championship)? Somehow, I doubt that very much - where's the publiciocrap meter when you need it?

Went through the roof, that's why you can't find it... I must say I take everythong Kolles with a pinch of salt. He always seemed to be involved in all the problems in Midland/Spyker - although the fact there was no money around to help things along probably made them no favours. And back then he had a penchant for sweeping confident statements. Anyway, take my own opinion of Kolles with a pinch of salt as well, the avatar should explain why.

Like the car, as I like the Virgin. Looks fast while stopped, which is nice. Funny how they both look shorter than the McLaren, for instance. I know (have read) that the Williams this year has a shorter wheelbase because the team developed a short-than-everyone-else gearbox; maybe the XTrak that comes attached to the Cosworth engine is shorter as well? And maybe that's why these cars have a different nose?

Also, interesting to see how the CFD "computer says no" Virgin looks to similar to at least another car on the grid.

The publiciocrap gets even worse - so bad, it almost becomes good: http://en.espnf1.com/campos/motorsport/story/10231.html
This quote is the one which I am most amused by:

Bruno Senna wrote:"Lotus and Virgin were in Barcelona just a good second faster than the GP2 cars, of which Dallara has indeed all the data," he wrote in his column for Motorsport Magazin. "And we should be faster according to their calculations right away, at least two seconds faster than the GP2 cars."

How on earth can you make a reasonably valid judgement based on comparing your car - which has not actually been tested - against your rivals by comparing how fast they are against a completely different racing car? Especially since you have no idea what the fuel loads of the other teams actually was.
If the previous statement sent it through the roof, this one has sent it halfway into orbit.
Now, I don't want to disparage the capabilities of Dallara - for what it is worth, I accept that they are highly respected in the motorsport industry - but this does seem to be asking a bit much from them.

It is true that the Mclaren is quite long, although that is probably slightly exaggerated by the fact that the recent Mclaren's (the MP4-22, 23 and 24) have had relatively short wheelbases compared to most, and so the lengthening will be most dramatic. As for thw Williams, I am a little surprised about the shorter gearbox, since the FIA does limit how thin the gears can be, and the overall length of the casing, to prevent excessive spending in this area.
From the technical regulations:

9.6.3 No forward gear ratio pair may be :
- less than 12mm wide when measured across the gear tooth at the root diameter or any point 1mm above or below the root diameter. Above this area each side of the gear teeth may be chamfered by a maximum of 10?. In addition, a chamfer or radius not exceeding 2.0mm may be applied to the sides and the tip of the teeth ;
- less than 85mm between centres ;
- less than 600g in weight (excluding any integral shaft or collar). If an integral shaft or collar is to be excluded the mass of this may be shown by calculation assuming the gear to be 12mm wide and the shaft geometry to be the same as that where slide on gears are used.

(Available here http://www.fia.com/EN-GB/SPORT/REGULATI ... nship.aspx )
I accept that perhaps they have been able to make some packaging changes, but I am wondering how much shorter they could have made the car. More likely is that they have modified some of the ancillaries, such as the lubrication system, the removal of the fuel flap opener and so on, in order to save on space - but either way, they have done a good job.

Strange stance, that of HRT. Even more strange considering the car hasn't even had a shake-down (I think). I can only suppose they're trying to impress potential upcoming sponsors?

CarlosFerreira wrote:Strange stance, that of HRT. Even more strange considering the car hasn't even had a shake-down (I think). I can only suppose they're trying to impress potential upcoming sponsors?

It might just trying to get some morale going for what I imagine has been endless nights work for these guys... they want to see some reward for their struggles, and with Senna behind the wheel I expect some surprises... not much from Chandhok though...

danardif1 wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:Strange stance, that of HRT. Even more strange considering the car hasn't even had a shake-down (I think). I can only suppose they're trying to impress potential upcoming sponsors?

It might just trying to get some morale going for what I imagine has been endless nights work for these guys... they want to see some reward for their struggles, and with Senna behind the wheel I expect some surprises... not much from Chandhok though...

Sadly, this is not Jellybean World, so they'll have to accept they'll be the slowest of all. But if they manage to get sponsors, they could develop the car and progress.

Phoenix wrote:Sadly, this is not Jellybean World, so they'll have to accept they'll be the slowest of all.

Sadly it's gonna take them a while to accept that fact but atleast this guy expects them to be slow as hell along with the other 2 newcomers.

Felipe Massa is only saying that crap because he knows his overtaking ability is questionable at best.

Cynon wrote:Felipe Massa is only saying that crap because he knows his overtaking ability is questionable at best.

I assume that you're referring to this http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81892
In which case, he could also have been pushed to say this by the Ferrari PR department...

mario wrote:

Cynon wrote:Felipe Massa is only saying that crap because he knows his overtaking ability is questionable at best.

I assume that you're referring to this http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81892
In which case, he could also have been pushed to say this by the Ferrari PR department...

Ah, this is bad. I sort of enjoyed the balls-out editorial last week (a bit like Michael Moore's films: somewhat flawed in the reasoning, somewhat conspiracy-theoretical, but overall good fun and I enjoy the different look at things), but this is just plain rude. Sometime during the season, possibly because of rain or some cock-up, one of the new teams' cars is going wheeze past Massa in front of the cameras, or proceed to a higher qualy part - and literally millions of people will roll on the floor, laughing.

Wizzie wrote:

Phoenix wrote:Sadly, this is not Jellybean World, so they'll have to accept they'll be the slowest of all.

Sadly it's gonna take them a while to accept that fact but atleast this guy expects them to be slow as hell along with the other 2 newcomers.

Jesus. Poor Chandhok will need pshychological treatment after the season. As for the new teams, I don't think they're bad or dangerous or anything. He just says what a lot of people expect him to say.

I wonder what the Whole Spanish Press will say when Enoch and Jamie keep calling the team Campos - or maybe Campos MF1 to adress the historical connections within the team's new management.

I think we should call them MF1 Escudería España-Dallara instead.

mario wrote:

Cynon wrote:Felipe Massa is only saying that crap because he knows his overtaking ability is questionable at best.

I assume that you're referring to this http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81892
In which case, he could also have been pushed to say this by the Ferrari PR department...

So would I, that doesn't sound like Massa at all.

watka wrote:

mario wrote:

Cynon wrote:Felipe Massa is only saying that crap because he knows his overtaking ability is questionable at best.

I assume that you're referring to this http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81892
In which case, he could also have been pushed to say this by the Ferrari PR department...

So would I, that doesn't sound like Massa at all.

Isn't there such a thing as post cerebral injury personality change?

shinji wrote:Isn't there such a thing as post cerebral injury personality change?

I wouldn't take it that way, but the fact is we may be judging Massa a little too kind; remember his comments on the involvement of Alonso in Crashgate?

CarlosFerreira wrote:

shinji wrote:Isn't there such a thing as post cerebral injury personality change?

I wouldn't take it that way, but the fact is we may be judging Massa a little too kind; remember his comments on the involvement of Alonso in Crashgate?

On the other hand, as he admitted later, he was letting his frustration do the talking at the time in that instance. I do agree that perhaps Massa can stick the boot in, if he wants to, and more forcefully then perhaps most would think he could. I would say, though, that this is more likely to be due to pressure from Ferrari then simply his own opinion
But, then again, he isn't the only driver to have been sniping at the new teams - anybody recall Webber's comments? They were hardly that much more complimentary about the new teams.
It just seems that some of the other teams are annoyed that, having worked so hard to get more money out of FOM, and finally got it, that their take is being diluted by the presence of the new teams - so they are using their drivers as their mouthpiece.

mario wrote:

CarlosFerreira wrote:

shinji wrote:Isn't there such a thing as post cerebral injury personality change?

I wouldn't take it that way, but the fact is we may be judging Massa a little too kind; remember his comments on the involvement of Alonso in Crashgate?

On the other hand, as he admitted later, he was letting his frustration do the talking at the time in that instance. I do agree that perhaps Massa can stick the boot in, if he wants to, and more forcefully then perhaps most would think he could. I would say, though, that this is more likely to be due to pressure from Ferrari then simply his own opinion
But, then again, he isn't the only driver to have been sniping at the new teams - anybody recall Webber's comments? They were hardly that much more complimentary about the new teams.
It just seems that some of the other teams are annoyed that, having worked so hard to get more money out of FOM, and finally got it, that their take is being diluted by the presence of the new teams - so they are using their drivers as their mouthpiece.

You sure Webber isn't affraid of being overtaken by Chandhok in every race?

I have fresh news about Hispania, thanks to the almighty Whole Spanish Press.

Apparently Hispania mechanics were unable to start Senna's car today. When they managed to do it, after some tries, it only lasted some seconds. Even better...

Bruno Senna, mumbling wrote:I think they installed the hydraulic system the other way around. I don't know, that kind of mistakes...

Chandhok, on the other hand, was more philosophical...
Both drivers applauded when the car finally started.

That may explain why Hispania's garage in Sakhir's circuit was closed...

Phoenix wrote:I have fresh news about Hispania, thanks to the almighty Whole Spanish Press.

Apparently Hispania mechanics were unable to start Senna's car today. When they managed to do it, after some tries, it only lasted some seconds. Even better...

Bruno Senna, mumbling wrote:I think they installed the hydraulic system the other way around. I don't know, that kind of mistakes...

Chandhok, on the other hand, was more philosophical...
Both drivers applauded when the car finally started.

That may explain why Hispania's garage in Sakhir's circuit was closed...

Where are you getting his rubbish from? First of all, you can't install the hydraulic system backwards. Because it doesn't fit backwards. Secondly, Hispania passed scruitineering, which would have found a glaring mistake like that. And thirdly, when a car is fird up for the first time, they don't leave it running. They only run it for a few seconds.

Your suppositions are bsed on the fact that Hispania had their doors closed and nothing else.

I don't know anything about what is correct or wrong about this, but they need to send the damn car on track to get some feedback!!!

EDIT: 10 minutes later Senna got on track!

Well, to give you an idea how slow HRT were, Senna was 15.4 seconds down on Sutil by the 2nd sector. Sure, a bit early to judge, but theyre gonna be slow...very.

I'm sure they'll be slow this weekend - but the third lap this car has ever done really is a bit early to judge their overall pace.

crazydude1992 wrote:Well, to give you an idea how slow HRT were, Senna was 15.4 seconds down on Sutil by the 2nd sector. Sure, a bit early to judge, but theyre gonna be slow...very.

You need to remember that Senna was hold up a bit in the first corner by some RB car and had to let past some cars... that's costs one or two seconds

I just love our TV commentators for F1. When the HRT finally exited the pits, JJ Lehto and Erkki Mustakari (veteran commentator with 15+ years of experience) betted one € for if the car can stay together for a single lap! They also said that "well, at least they still have more people than Andrea Moda had"

Klon wrote:

crazydude1992 wrote:Well, to give you an idea how slow HRT were, Senna was 15.4 seconds down on Sutil by the 2nd sector. Sure, a bit early to judge, but theyre gonna be slow...very.

You need to remember that Senna was hold up a bit in the first corner by some RB car and had to let past some cars... that's costs one or two seconds

I doubt they'd have been all that much faster on a completely clear track, though. Going downhill. With a turbocharger.

Nuppiz wrote:I just love our TV commentators for F1. When the HRT finally exited the pits, JJ Lehto and Erkki Mustakari (veteran commentator with 15+ years of experience) betted one € for if the car can stay together for a single lap! They also said that "well, at least they still have more people than Andrea Moda had"

indeed - unfortunately, I missed the live feed for the practise sessions, but my understanding is that the HRT team simply ran a few installation laps, right? Given that they have had no running, and the session is quite long, surely they could have tried to set at least one lap; even if they were miles off the pace, since that would have given the pit crew something to smile about (and at this stage, a little confidence boost wouldn't go amiss).

mario wrote:

Nuppiz wrote:I just love our TV commentators for F1. When the HRT finally exited the pits, JJ Lehto and Erkki Mustakari (veteran commentator with 15+ years of experience) betted one € for if the car can stay together for a single lap! They also said that "well, at least they still have more people than Andrea Moda had"

indeed - unfortunately, I missed the live feed for the practise sessions, but my understanding is that the HRT team simply ran a few installation laps, right? Given that they have had no running, and the session is quite long, surely they could have tried to set at least one lap; even if they were miles off the pace, since that would have given the pit crew something to smile about (and at this stage, a little confidence boost wouldn't go amiss).

They did both for Senna.

It was great to see their first (tentative) steps after all the trouble over the winter... Ayrton will be looking down on Bruno and smiling, as he's done his Uncle proud and used his talent to get to F1, even if it's not the best place to start in really...

If they can get the cars sorted with a proper setup, and pound the laps in with both Senna and Chandhok, they may do better than we're expecting... the Dallara looks like it's not the worst car ever... at least it's done more laps than Life at their first GP!

What worries me though is that Chandhok didnt get a chance to run the car, wonder how slow will he be. But it wouldnt surprise me if he sits on the sidelines for both qualifying and the race...

Not a good start for them.

It was good to see them finally get out on track after all that's gone on, but I really can't see them starting the race.

Don't have any expectations about this team. This really is a test session for them. What else did you expect without one kilometer of testing before the season? I'm happy for them they at least got the car running, and now they will have to take baby steps every race.
It's very plausible that they won't start the race at all. (See also the article in which Adrián Campos says they're just at the race to protect their entry.) If they do, my prediction is they will finish 4 laps down... that is, if they will finish, which I don't expect. I suppose they might start a car for Bruno, just for publicity value, and have Chandhok in the other car do just a few outlaps and inlaps in qualifying without setting a time and DNSing on Sunday.

Speaking of Bruno, if he is going to show that his talent is anywhere near the level of Ayrton's, he will have to outperform the potential of this car this year.

...which probably means in this case managing to lap less than 7 seconds slower than the front runners, or something.