Grand Prix Rejects

Clark only won Indy once.

F1000X wrote:

Cynon wrote:I'm not arguing Loeb isn't the god of rallying.

I don't think John Force is that great either, I'm just using him as an arguing point. Steve Kinser is definitely another story. If you leave out how shite he was in NASCAR and how wonderfully rejectful he was in the 1997 Indy 500. Honestly, if you were to ask me, the greatest driver of all time would probably be either Mario Andretti or A.J. Foyt.

I don't hold the Race of Champions that highly because I think there are a lot of drivers that don't get invited that should get invited and a few who do that shouldn't have had a chance at it (but if they would actually invite Jimmie Johnson some more so he can fail epically I would love it), and I only held IROC highly when someone not a NASCAR driver was winning.

Come to think of it, Rick Mears came from a rallying background and I think we all (should) know how his career went. Personally I think Loeb should make a move to IndyCar if he can't get an F1 seat, see how he fares over there.

Rick Mears, now there's a man everybody should love.

I can respect your choice of Andretti or Foyt, they certainly have a history of success across enough categories of racing to make themselves eligible.

I HATE JIMMY JOHNSON SO MUCH.

Loeb in an Indycar would be interesting to watch, but I can't see it happening. I just don't see why he'd want to relocate to the United States and race on ovals, unless he thought he could dominate and/or land him a seat in F1 shortly thereafter.

Why hate Jimmie Johnson? Is it because you, unlike NASCAR broadcasters, actually think for yourself and realized that if you separate Jimmie Johnson from Chad Knaus he is at best a mediocre driver? Is it because everyone hails him as a great driver in an era in NASCAR where the car trumps the driver at almost every track and he drives for the one team NASCAR loves? Is it because you realized his douchebaggery makes anything Tony Stewart said or did look like it came from a boy scout (See: Bud Shootout, where he was ... crying on national TV because Kevin Harvick wrecked him. No. SERIOUSLY)?

Ah, A.J. Foyt, I think he should be automatically crowned the greatest driver of all time specifically because the times he ran the Indy 500 in the 1950s were not kind to him and thus make him... wait for it...

an F1 Reject!

Wizzie wrote:Before I forget I have another question for you all:

Why was Robert Kubica so crap for the first half of 2009? (And this is coming from someone who's been a fan of Kubica since 2006)

At the beginning of 2009, the F1-09 was, supposedly, a bit difficult to set up, which made finding the set up which the driver was most comfortable with a time consuming and challenging process. Now, in the latter half of 2008, BMW Sauber had been working with Heidfeld's side of the garage more and more to try and bolster his performance a bit, since BMW Sauber were trying to maximise their points haul. Bear in mind that even as late as the Chinese GP, BMW Sauber were just 10 points behind Mclaren, and had regularly been within 10 points of them for most of the season (and up until Hungary, they were ahead of Mclaren and sometimes Ferrari as well).

Some of the benefits of working more closely with Heidfeld carried over into the following year, in terms of driver feedback etc., such that he found it easier to coax more performance out of the car, to the point where in a few races Kubica ended up copying Heidfeld's set up. Secondly, being the taller driver, and slightly heavier as well, the introduction of KERS hurt Kubica slightly more, since the placement of ballast to get the optimal weight distribution was more of an issue. However, the car went through a major overhaul at the Turkish GP, and from there on in Kubica's performance improved a bit, along with that of the car, helped further by BMW Sauber ditching their KERS system, which improved the weight distribution.

Not F1 related but, if Bruno Junquiera had not broken his back at the 2005 Indy 500, could he have challenged Bourdais for the Champcar crown? Oriol Servia took Bruno's seat after the accident, and managed to finish second in championship in that car. I think its pretty clear Junquiera was a superior driver to Servia (offense to any Servia fans, he's still a great driver).

F1000X wrote:Not F1 related but, if Bruno Junquiera had not broken his back at the 2005 Indy 500, could he have challenged Bourdais for the Champcar crown? Oriol Servia took Bruno's seat after the accident, and managed to finish second in championship in that car. I think its pretty clear Junquiera was a superior driver to Servia (offense to any Servia fans, he's still a great driver).

Wasn't Junquiera beaten to the Williams drive by a 20 year old Jenson Button? In which case Prost GP was probably about right as Servia's level in F1.

watka wrote:

F1000X wrote:Not F1 related but, if Bruno Junquiera had not broken his back at the 2005 Indy 500, could he have challenged Bourdais for the Champcar crown? Oriol Servia took Bruno's seat after the accident, and managed to finish second in championship in that car. I think its pretty clear Junquiera was a superior driver to Servia (offense to any Servia fans, he's still a great driver).

Wasn't Junquiera beaten to the Williams drive by a 20 year old Jenson Button? In which case Prost GP was probably about right as Servia's level in F1.

Indeed he was, albeit by not much. Patrick Head commented later he slightly favored seeing Bruno in the seat, but Jenson managed to edge him at Jerez test, and that was enough for the team. What really complicates things about that "testing shootout" is that Williams were having recurring mechanical problems the entire duration of test, so its impossible to say that one driver may have been aided or hindered by a troubled car. I just finished looking for the testing times and I couldn't find them.

Edit: Here are their times from Barcelona. On this particular day of testing, no mechanical problems were encountered.

Barcelona 23 January 2000
1 Jenson Button Williams FW21B BMW V10 1'23.34 21
2 Bruno Junqueira Williams FW21B BMW V10 1'23.50 26

I think Button's subsequent 11 year (and counting) career vindicates Williams' decision, even though they let him go after a year

Warren Hughes wrote:I think Button's subsequent 11 year (and counting) career vindicates Williams' decision, even though they let him go after a year

Without a doubt.

But we will never know if Bruno could've won more, I belive so (and yes, I'm a sliiight fan).

Cynon, I also hate Jimmie Johnson, but that's just because I'm a Jeff Gordon - fan!

Myrvold wrote:But we will never know if Bruno could've won more, I belive so (and yes, I'm a sliiight fan).

Bruno showed speed on every type of circuit in Champcar with wins on ovals (Motegi and Vegas) street circuits (Surfers Paradise,Denver and Toronto) and natural road courses (Road America, Fundidora). And he was always fast Longbeach and Laguna Seca. A really solid driver in my opinion, who will be able to race into his 40s no problem. The question is, why isn't anyone giving him an Indycar drive?

F1000X wrote:

Myrvold wrote:But we will never know if Bruno could've won more, I belive so (and yes, I'm a sliiight fan).

Bruno showed speed on every type of circuit in Champcar with wins on ovals (Motegi and Vegas) street circuits (Surfers Paradise,Denver and Toronto) and natural road courses (Road America, Fundidora). And he was always fast Longbeach and Laguna Seca. A really solid driver in my opinion, who will be able to race into his 40s no problem. The question is, why isn't anyone giving him an Indycar drive?

Sadly it's because he's not bringing money with him. I remember last years Indy 500 bump day when Bruno practiced Alex Tagliani's back-up car for 6 laps and then put it in the show with a time that would of put in the top 9 shootout they did for this years qualifying. Bruno's still got a lot in the tank but just not the sponsorship following him.

Myrvold wrote:But we will never know if Bruno could've won more, I belive so (and yes, I'm a sliiight fan).

Cynon, I also hate Jimmie Johnson, but that's just because I'm a Jeff Gordon - fan!

Bruno Junquiera should have an IRL ride full-time, he's better than people want to admit.

Jimmie Johnson is what happens when you put a mediocre driver in an unbeatable car.

F1000X wrote:Not F1 related but, if Bruno Junquiera had not broken his back at the 2005 Indy 500, could he have challenged Bourdais for the Champcar crown? Oriol Servia took Bruno's seat after the accident, and managed to finish second in championship in that car. I think its pretty clear Junquiera was a superior driver to Servia (offense to any Servia fans, he's still a great driver).

Servia was crap. I like Servia, but he's not that good. Junquiera, Bourdais, Tracy, Allmendinger, Vasser (okay, fine, he did one race only), and Wilson were really the only competent drivers in the Champ Car field that season. Junquiera could have challenged Bourdais, no doubt about it, but I think the difference is that Bourdais didn't crack under pressure nearly as much as Junquiera. The only driver that could make Bourdais's skin crawl was Paul Tracy -- and Tracy was competitive that year. Bruno could have been champion that year, but it would have been a real uphill battle for him.

It's good to have a new forum to worry about

Phoenix wrote:It's good to have a new forum to worry about

Best. Christmas present. Ever.

thehemogoblin wrote:

Phoenix wrote:It's good to have a new forum to worry about

Best. Christmas present. Ever.

Not as good as a Philips electric shaver endorsed by WilliamsF1, and with all their 2008 sponsors on.

thehemogoblin wrote:

Phoenix wrote:It's good to have a new forum to worry about

Best. Christmas present. Ever.

Speaking of which, I was promised the keys for the banhammer on 24th but haven't receibved them yet

Phoenix wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:

Phoenix wrote:It's good to have a new forum to worry about

Best. Christmas present. Ever.

Speaking of which, I was promised the keys for the banhammer on 24th but haven't receibved them yet

Not my fault. I can't help you out there.

On the subject of banhammering, what's happened to Carlos? It can't just be that he won't be seen in that avatar...

Warren Hughes wrote:On the subject of banhammering, what's happened to Carlos? It can't just be that he won't be seen in that avatar...

He's changed courses in his academic studies and the new Ph.D he's pursuing has a more rigorous workload. As such, he's had to curtail his commenting in the forum, much to everyone's chagrin.

thehemogoblin wrote:

Warren Hughes wrote:On the subject of banhammering, what's happened to Carlos? It can't just be that he won't be seen in that avatar...

He's changed courses in his academic studies and the new Ph.D he's pursuing has a more rigorous workload. As such, he's had to curtail his commenting in the forum, much to everyone's chagrin.

Looking for another moderator to take his place? One who supports the same team he does. Not Wizzie, I mean me.

redbulljack14 wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:

Warren Hughes wrote:On the subject of banhammering, what's happened to Carlos? It can't just be that he won't be seen in that avatar...

He's changed courses in his academic studies and the new Ph.D he's pursuing has a more rigorous workload. As such, he's had to curtail his commenting in the forum, much to everyone's chagrin.

Looking for another moderator to take his place? One who supports the same team he does. Not Wizzie, I mean me.

Your friendly local English-challenged Spaniard is taking that job.

thehemogoblin wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:
He's changed courses in his academic studies and the new Ph.D he's pursuing has a more rigorous workload. As such, he's had to curtail his commenting in the forum, much to everyone's chagrin.

Looking for another moderator to take his place? One who supports the same team he does. Not Wizzie, I mean me.

Your friendly local English-challenged Spaniard is taking that job.

Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

Wizzie wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:Looking for another moderator to take his place? One who supports the same team he does. Not Wizzie, I mean me.

Your friendly local English-challenged Spaniard is taking that job.

Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

It's not Phoenetics' fault you're not worthy of winning His home grand prix.

thehemogoblin wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:
Your friendly local English-challenged Spaniard is taking that job.

Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

It's not Phoenetics' fault you're not worthy of winning His home grand prix.

But I did end up winning it

Wizzie wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:

Wizzie wrote:Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

It's not Phoenetics' fault you're not worthy of winning His home grand prix.

But I did end up winning it

Technicalities, technicalities.

thehemogoblin wrote:

Phoenix wrote:Speaking of which, I was promised the keys for the banhammer on 24th but haven't receibved them yet

Not my fault. I can't help you out there.

Oh, don't worry, it's all good

Wizzie wrote:Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

Do you think that because you're a double F1 World Champion and F1RWRS Champion you can drive like a monkey? I was racing, that's it! If you had to drive a Spyker you'd be at a loss at what to do when being lapped.

Wizzie wrote:Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

Do you think that because you're a double F1 World Champion and F1RWRS Champion you can drive like a monkey? I was racing, that's it! If you had to drive a Spyker you'd be at a loss at what to do when being lapped.[/quote]
Did I miss that one? I though he choked/got screwed by strategy in the final race?

the Masked Lapwing wrote:

Phoenix wrote:

Wizzie wrote:Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

Do you think that because you're a double F1 World Champion and F1RWRS Champion you can drive like a monkey? I was racing, that's it! If you had to drive a Spyker you'd be at a loss at what to do when being lapped.

Did I miss that one? I though he choked/got screwed by strategy in the final race?

I think he meant the F1 Rejects World Championship (Which I won the GP4 division of). And it's Triple F1 World Champion thank you very much

Wizzie wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:

redbulljack14 wrote:Looking for another moderator to take his place? One who supports the same team he does. Not Wizzie, I mean me.

Your friendly local English-challenged Spaniard is taking that job.

Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

Wouldn't have happened if Colin Kolles didn't sack my alter ego from Spyker.

MinardiFan95 wrote:

Wizzie wrote:

thehemogoblin wrote:
Your friendly local English-challenged Spaniard is taking that job.

Friendly? His alter ego nearly took me out of the Hungarian Grand Prix once.

Wouldn't have happened if Colin Kolles didn't sack my alter ego from Spyker.

Well if Colin Kolles didn't sack your alter ego you would never have gotten the BMW Sauber test driver spot.

In 1980 Bruno Giacomelli qualified on the Pole for the 1980 USGP at Watkins Glen with a time of 1'33.291 at 130.3 mph. In 2009 Milka Duno qualified for the Indycar race at Watkins Glen with a time of 1'33.682 at 129.5 mph, an improvement from her 2008 qualifying time of 1'36.033 at 126.3 mph. The only change to the track in those 29 years was the addition of a fast chicane on the backstretch. The funny thing is, I can't imagine Bruno Giacomelli or any of his compatriots in their respective 1980 cars being much slower around the slightly altered circuit than Milka Duno in a 2008 Dallara. She certainly would have been trounced by the turbo cars from the mid 1980s, had they continued to race at Watkins Glen.

I don't know about you guys but in the past two seasons Nico Rosberg has shown that he is undoubtedly a good driver. That being said though we still don't really know just how good he is considering how useless all his teammates have been (With the singular exception of Mark Webber but the FW28 belonged in a glue factory)

Wizzie wrote:I don't know about you guys but in the past two seasons Nico Rosberg has shown that he is undoubtedly a good driver. That being said though we still don't really know just how good he is considering how useless all his teammates have been (With the singular exception of Mark Webber but the FW28 belonged in a glue factory)

I think the designers of the FW28 were in a glue factory when they designed it.

F1000X wrote:In 1980 Bruno Giacomelli qualified on the Pole for the 1980 USGP at Watkins Glen with a time of 1'33.291 at 130.3 mph. In 2009 Milka Duno qualified for the Indycar race at Watkins Glen with a time of 1'33.682 at 129.5 mph, an improvement from her 2008 qualifying time of 1'36.033 at 126.3 mph. The only change to the track in those 29 years was the addition of a fast chicane on the backstretch. The funny thing is, I can't imagine Bruno Giacomelli or any of his compatriots in their respective 1980 cars being much slower around the slightly altered circuit than Milka Duno in a 2008 Dallara. She certainly would have been trounced by the turbo cars from the mid 1980s, had they continued to race at Watkins Glen.

You are talking about the IndyCar Dallara, which despite being a great oval car is a bit of a slug on road courses. They are a lot heavier, and therefore, any driving error you make will have a greater punishment because it will take longer to recover from any error you make. Seeing as we are also talking about Milk and Donuts, the only driver I can think of who goes so slowly on her flying laps in qualifying that she holds up other drivers (See: Danica Patrick) to such an extent that they come and ask her why she was so slow in the pitlane... well, let's just say that plenty of errors will be made and that much time will be lost due to ineptitude.

I wouldn't call the Bus Stop at Watkins Glen fast, but it adds a passing zone and gives awesome drivers like Robby Gordon chances to be awesome.

Cynon wrote:I wouldn't call the Bus Stop at Watkins Glen fast, but it adds a passing zone and gives awesome drivers like Robby Gordon chances to be awesome.

When did people start calling it "the Bus Stop" instead of "the Inner Loop"?

And I remember watching that Busch race. That one was incredible.

Maybe it's only the way it should be "over there" but I don't think the move was anything but ugly... He did something, that is very close to a cut, and than rammed and leaned on the other driver...

Myrvold wrote:Maybe it's only the way it should be "over there" but I don't think the move was anything but ugly... He did something, that is very close to a cut, and than rammed and leaned on the other driver...

Closed-wheel racing is a beautiful, beautiful thing; you all should learn to embrace it.

I've seen all Sprint Cup races, and 20 nationwide races this year. I've also seen some truck races. Together with all BTCC, WTCC and STCC races, and some V8 Supercars. I think I like closed wheel racing. However, I like clean and fair racing. I don't think that was clean, or fair. But at least he didn't win.

You know what, having a steeply banked pitlane in an oval with flat turns would be

Cynon wrote:You are talking about the IndyCar Dallara, which despite being a great oval car is a bit of a slug on road courses. They are a lot heavier, and therefore, any driving error you make will have a greater punishment because it will take longer to recover from any error you make. Seeing as we are also talking about Milk and Donuts, the only driver I can think of who goes so slowly on her flying laps in qualifying that she holds up other drivers (See: Danica Patrick) to such an extent that they come and ask her why she was so slow in the pitlane... well, let's just say that plenty of errors will be made and that much time will be lost due to ineptitude.

She was so slow, that on several occasions, race control parked her, and gave the official reason "handling". IRR had some good info on this.

I remember at TMS, i was telling my dad to watch her get lapped. We made a game out of it, somehow.

JohnMLTX wrote:

She was so slow, that on several occasions, race control parked her, and gave the official reason "handling". IRR had some good info on this.

"Wake up, men, WAKE UP."

JohnMLTX wrote:She was so slow, that on several occasions, race control parked her, and gave the official reason "handling". IRR had some good info on this.

I remember at TMS, i was telling my dad to watch her get lapped. We made a game out of it, somehow.

I remember at Chicagoland Speedway in 2009 doing the exact same thing with Antinucci (I think he drove the #98 car that race) and Robert Doornbos, both of whom were ridiculously slow and were lapped several times.