Grand Prix Rejects

mario wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:Whatever the aftermath of all this is, I suspect a lot will be made of the conditions being too poor for the helicopter to fly. No doubt we'll see a rule change to allow FIA to overrule all other parties when considering rescheduling a race. Should have been run earlier in the day.

With all that said, obviously hoping Bianchi is okay. The most important thing we can all take from this as ordinary spectators is to not get hysterical and not start a blame game. In those sort of situations, no-one is at fault. The truck needed to move the Sauber, and it's unfortunate that for Jules, he crashed right where it was. If it hadn't been the crane, he might have hit the Sauber, and possibly even Sutil if he hadn't got out in time.

That said, Martin Brundle has been wincing for *years* every time one of those trucks is on track - with so much specialist racing and safety equipment used in Formula 1, it's always alarming to see these huge pieces of construction equipment lumbering about on the circuit.

On the other hand, I am struggling to see how you could easily move a car that has crashed, and therefore cannot be easily wheeled away, without some sort of mobile crane.

Having a somewhat cumbersome mobile crane near the edge of the track is not an ideal situation, and it is true that in the past we have had a few close calls when marshals have been trying to remove a stricken car in damp conditions. However, I'm not sure what alternatives could easily be used to replace the mobile cranes - perhaps you could try to clad the outside of the crane with some sort of protective padding, but that could then compromise the safe working of the crane for the operators and the marshals around it, so I don't think there is an easy way out of that situation.

Yeah, this is the big problem here. The only possible solution I can think of is if there is some temporary safety structure which you can deploy around the crane. But I have no idea if that is feasible.

The most simple solution is: if you need to bring out the crane, make the SC escort it.

mario wrote:

fjackdaw wrote:

AndreaModa wrote:Whatever the aftermath of all this is, I suspect a lot will be made of the conditions being too poor for the helicopter to fly. No doubt we'll see a rule change to allow FIA to overrule all other parties when considering rescheduling a race. Should have been run earlier in the day.

With all that said, obviously hoping Bianchi is okay. The most important thing we can all take from this as ordinary spectators is to not get hysterical and not start a blame game. In those sort of situations, no-one is at fault. The truck needed to move the Sauber, and it's unfortunate that for Jules, he crashed right where it was. If it hadn't been the crane, he might have hit the Sauber, and possibly even Sutil if he hadn't got out in time.

That said, Martin Brundle has been wincing for *years* every time one of those trucks is on track - with so much specialist racing and safety equipment used in Formula 1, it's always alarming to see these huge pieces of construction equipment lumbering about on the circuit.

On the other hand, I am struggling to see how you could easily move a car that has crashed, and therefore cannot be easily wheeled away, without some sort of mobile crane.

Having a somewhat cumbersome mobile crane near the edge of the track is not an ideal situation, and it is true that in the past we have had a few close calls when marshals have been trying to remove a stricken car in damp conditions. However, I'm not sure what alternatives could easily be used to replace the mobile cranes - perhaps you could try to clad the outside of the crane with some sort of protective padding, but that could then compromise the safe working of the crane for the operators and the marshals around it, so I don't think there is an easy way out of that situation.

Ed24 wrote:The alternative is calling a safety car, not about the type of equipment used.

Even under a safety car, we have seen drivers struggling to control their cars and sliding off the track (as happened with Ericsson in the opening laps). Given that drivers were complaining about aquaplaning behind the safety car in the opening laps and the fact that the conditions were reportedly as bad in the closing laps, I don't know if that would have been enough to stop such an accident.

However, I certainly agree that deploying the safety car would potentially have reduced the likelihood of such an accident, or at least hopefully made any side effects less severe by reducing the impact speed.

CoopsII wrote:Bianchi went by ambulance because the helicopter couldn't land/takeoff I believe. Which comprises his treatment a little bit. Not good.

There are now some reports suggesting that the medical helicopter has now been seen leaving the circuit, possibly transporting an injured marshal - either way, the situation does not sound at all good.

I think now the inevitable has happened, something will be done to change it (the presence of non-specialist construction equipment on a racetrack that is).

According to Kravitz, Bianchi wasn't transported by chopper because of medical reasons.

CoopsII wrote:Bianchi went by ambulance because the helicopter couldn't land/takeoff I believe. Which comprises his treatment a little bit. Not good.

The helicopter was there, and indeed could fly, because it took off and left the track fine.
A decision was made by the medical team not to use it for Bianchi for some other reason (extra risk due to nature of his injuries?) I got the feeling for a less serious injury they would have used the helicopter.

Ok, I have stuffed up majorly with my comment about the sheets. Therefore, I have deleted the comment.

Also, best wishes to Jules. I hope he is OK, and is well enough to race soon.

mario wrote:

Ed24 wrote:The alternative is calling a safety car, not about the type of equipment used.

Even under a safety car, we have seen drivers struggling to control their cars and sliding off the track (as happened with Ericsson in the opening laps). Given that drivers were complaining about aquaplaning behind the safety car in the opening laps and the fact that the conditions were reportedly as bad in the closing laps, I don't know if that would have been enough to stop such an accident.

However, I certainly agree that deploying the safety car would potentially have reduced the likelihood of such an accident, or at least hopefully made any side effects less severe by reducing the impact speed.

Perhaps they could adopt the Le Mans-style Code 60 as well as or instead of a Safety Car then in these situations. Unlikely to spin off at that speed and if you do very low speed.

pablo_h wrote:

CoopsII wrote:Bianchi went by ambulance because the helicopter couldn't land/takeoff I believe. Which comprises his treatment a little bit. Not good.

The helicopter was there, and indeed could fly, because it took off and left the track fine.
A decision was made by the medical team not to use it for Bianchi for some other reason (extra risk due to nature of his injuries?) I got the feeling for a less serious injury they would have used the helicopter.

At 9:13 GMT+1, a FIA spokesman specifically said on TV that the helicopter hadn't been able to fly because of weather conditions. It was more or less at the time when Lewis was entering the pre-podium room.

Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z5WieEg8Ok

Ed24 wrote:

mario wrote:

Ed24 wrote:The alternative is calling a safety car, not about the type of equipment used.

Even under a safety car, we have seen drivers struggling to control their cars and sliding off the track (as happened with Ericsson in the opening laps). Given that drivers were complaining about aquaplaning behind the safety car in the opening laps and the fact that the conditions were reportedly as bad in the closing laps, I don't know if that would have been enough to stop such an accident.

However, I certainly agree that deploying the safety car would potentially have reduced the likelihood of such an accident, or at least hopefully made any side effects less severe by reducing the impact speed.

Perhaps they could adopt the Le Mans-style Code 60 as well as or instead of a Safety Car then in these situations. Unlikely to spin off at that speed and if you do very low speed.

That is certainly one approach that could be used to improve the situation around an accident zone - under the current system, where the driver is expected to lift off at his own discretion, there is perhaps a little too much vagueness in the rules.

Nin13 wrote:

TheBigJ wrote:Why aren't they showing footage of the crash? Must be bad...

They never show. Like senna crash last few seconds is not yet released.

Well, officially it was never recorded.

Let's hope for the best. Keep pushing Jules!

We all hope that Bianchi is okay. I mean that's the main concern and it is understandable about the helicopter due to medical conditions.

I very much hope Bianchi's okay. An excellent driver who seemed nailed-on for a Ferrari drive when Raikkonen quits / is sacked.

Button's reaction to the Bianchi crash spoke volumes - Jenson was clearly very upset and looked like a man about to announce his retirement.

Ferrim wrote:

Nin13 wrote:

TheBigJ wrote:Why aren't they showing footage of the crash? Must be bad...

They never show. Like senna crash last few seconds is not yet released.

Well, officially it was never recorded.

On board footage would have helped us understand the nature of the crash but FIA didn't even show that, which is understandable given the seriousness of the situation. Still, I am curious as to what ''pictures'' Spanish TV said they had of the crash.

EDIT ; Mika Salo has said in an interview he has seen footage of the crash and that Bianchi went under the tractor nose first.

Reports say that Jules is now at Mie university hospital, located 10 km for the track. He's carried using an ambulance to boot.

Our thoughts are with you, Jules.

Very upsetting and I don't pray, but I am hoping for a positive outcome. It sounds eerily similar to Di Villota's accident though.

This waiting brings back memories of waiting for good news on Schumi and none being forthcoming.

Rant alert: I really hope this will shut up the stupid minority of people who still say the driver should race whatever the conditions, are they men or mice etc.

LellaLombardi wrote:Rant alert: I really hope this will shut up the stupid minority of people who still say the driver should race whatever the conditions, are they men or mice etc.

Agreed. Equally, retards who suggest F1 is "too safe".

So, it seems Bianchi's father said to the French TV that his son has a head trauma and is in critical condition, but undergoing surgery.

https://twitter.com/ClassicFormula1/status/518713971059466240

TheBigJ wrote:

Ferrim wrote:

Nin13 wrote:
Well, officially it was never recorded.

On board footage would have helped us understand the nature of the crash but FIA didn't even show that, which is understandable given the seriousness of the situation. Still, I am curious as to what ''pictures'' Spanish TV said they had of the crash.

I meant the Senna one.

I guess Spanish TV had some standing pictures, ie. shots, that were being circulated at Twitter a few moments before. Nothing such as a complete video of the accident, like the one Salo has probably seen.

It's good to have some hope, I was fearing even worse than what the update suggests to be honest. Fingers crossed the doctors can save him.

FIA statement is out:

I do not like the words "severe head injury" and "intensive care".

Best wishes, man.

Welp. Not the finish I would've ever wanted.

I spent the first 10 laps constantly grumbling to myself about Whiting being overly cautious, especially since people went to Inters almost immediately racing started. I was even tempted to make a rant about here with the words "I mean, it's not like the cars are traveling fast enough on the rain with full wets to actually have a crash causing serious injury."...

Had I been watching the live feed instead of a rerun (bathplug waking up at 8:50 on a sunday morning while hungover.) I woulda felt like god of karma going "Really? Thats what you think?" and proving me wrong just so I would feel like shite.

All wishes to Bianchi. If he's seriously hurt thats a fate I wouldn't wish even for Lewis. No other thoughts on the race right now.

This is horrible news. It's times like this that remind us that motorsport is still dangerous and time is agonizing. I remember that I couldn't sleep at night when I heard Wheldon had died and when Simoncelli has his accident I was pacing around awaiting news. Thoughts and prayers to Jules and his family right now

Like everyone else, I am hoping that any further news we receive is relatively good news. #ForzaJules

However, if this accident brings about new regulations to improve the safety of car extraction, at least some good will become of it.

Taki Inoue just posted quite a graphic image of the aftermath of the crash. View at your own discretion. Once again shows the downside of the change to Twitter this year that images in tweets automatically appear in your timeline, very difficult to avoid confronting images such as this or other things such as ISIL attacks etc.

Ed24 wrote:Taki Inoue just posted quite a graphic image of the aftermath of the crash. View at your own discretion. Once again shows the downside of the change to Twitter this year that images in tweets automatically appear in your timeline, very difficult to avoid confronting images such as this or other things such as ISIL attacks etc.

It's not that graphic, if anything it looks positive as it clearly shows that Bianchi's helmet protected him from being completely decapitated/disfigured.

However, if he has severe head trauma then he could end up like De Villota Also there is a chilling picture of a steward holding up a piece of the chassis for his colleague to look at - reminds me of the piece of suspension than killed Senna.

TheBigJ wrote:

Ed24 wrote:Taki Inoue just posted quite a graphic image of the aftermath of the crash. View at your own discretion. Once again shows the downside of the change to Twitter this year that images in tweets automatically appear in your timeline, very difficult to avoid confronting images such as this or other things such as ISIL attacks etc.

It's not that graphic, if anything it looks positive as it clearly shows that Bianchi's helmet protected him from being completely decapitated/disfigured.

However, if he has severe head trauma then he could end up like De Villota Also there is a chilling picture of a steward holding up a piece of the chassis for his colleague to look at - reminds me of the piece of suspension than killed Senna.

Yeah but not nice to see entire airbox removed - particularly when image pops up without warning, if you seek it yourself then a different kettle of fish. As you say, things could have been much worse for him in terms of helmet damage.

That is really bad news guys, hope the surgery is successful. Concerned here.

Just got back home and heard the news. Holy shite.
Get well, Jules. You did it in Monaco, you can do it now.

Good Lord the whole roll-hoop is gone! I really really hope he pulls through.

Just saw the Taki Inoue picture. Bloody hell, he must've hit the tractor at immense speed to destroy the roll hoop.

L'Equipe reports that Jules' surgery was finished and he breathes without the ventilator.

Very encouraging update.

My feeling is Bianchi will survive this but I really fear his F1 career could now be in jeopardy. It would be bitterly ironic if Bianchi didnt race again after the lifeline he gave Marussia with the points from Monte Carlo.

CoopsII wrote:My feeling is Bianchi will survive this but I really fear his F1 career could now be in jeopardy. It would be bitterly ironic if Bianchi didnt race again after the lifeline he gave Marussia with the points from Monte Carlo.

It is starting to look like he will pull through but there's also the question of whether or not this will affect his driving ability in the future. Let's hope it won't.

Hopefully he can make a full recovery like Massa, even if he is out for a few months.

After the very encouraging update, I am very hopeful that he can survive and can participate in pre season testing.

I think it's lucky he went in backwards, as the pictures appear to show. If it'd been a direct front-on impact, he'd have gone under.