Editorial direction of GP Rejects

[Peteroli34]

It is great to see new content. The articles have been fantastic While i quite like the idea of writing an article myself. i doubt its quality would be good enough.

[CoopsII]

It is great to see new content. The articles have been fantastic While i quite like the idea of writing an article myself. i doubt its quality would be good enough.

I agree, much better than that old crap

[Rob Dylan]

I just wanted to say here, because I didn't know where else to, that whoever (I'm thinking it was you, Biscione) put the Mibbit chat up on the forum website did a really simple, but really great thing. Even in the last month or so it appears to have been a great way for many new members to jump right into the Rejects community. Good work!

[DemocalypseNow]

I just wanted to say here, because I didn't know where else to, that whoever (I'm thinking it was you, Biscione) put the Mibbit chat up on the forum website did a really simple, but really great thing. Even in the last month or so it appears to have been a great way for many new members to jump right into the Rejects community. Good work!

The forum banners for the chat when the races are live seem to make a difference, too.

[Ataxia]

Since we're now officially a year into producing our own content, I'd like to discuss a few changes in the way we're going to work, based on the feedback provided a few months ago.

I believe everyone on the "editorial team" is aware of a soft 3,000-word cap for profiles, although there's one more in the works that I'm aware of which exceeds this new limit. For opinion pieces and other shorter-form pieces, the recommended maximum length is approximately 1,500 words, which is about the same as a magazine feature size. We've also borrowed a style guide from a well-known motorsport publication to help us out along the way (doesn't take a genius to work out how or why )

I've been snowed under with coursework over the past two weeks, so I've not had much chance to get stuff done, but I'm going to try to get a season preview up this weekend. On the weekend of the grand prix, we expect to have dr-baker's article on Lola up, who very graciously reworked the piece to create something a bit different to the profile format we've stuck to so far, and also have a few more things in the pipeline (including a Canadian, more video game goodness and collaborative effort on a short-lived Asian influence).

Thanks for sticking with us, and I hope we can continue producing fun content for you guys!

[dinizintheoven]

I didn't know of the 3000 word limit, but it's useful to know if I want to have a go myself.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Can I ask what people think of splitting profiles into multiple parts like what was done with Claes and Super Aguri as an alternative to a 3000-word cap? There are some subjects that I feel would suffer under such a limit, and I can't help but feel I may be the cause of these fears over word counts, given that I've written a profile that's about the length of Atlas Shrugged and has had, from what I can see, a very divided reception. If I'd had the Buemi profile finished, say, a week before, it almost certainly would have been split into separate parts like with the previous Super Aguri and Claes profiles, which I can only imagine would have made for easier reading. In fact, I even thought about dividing it up to be published in parts over the course of the season in case it wasn't finished in time.

I will admit that the Buemi profile could have been a lot shorter, but I don't feel there's any way it could have been done inside 3000 words, and would rather see comprehensive (within reason) profiles spread over a small number of 3000-word pages than just a single abbreviated 3000-word piece.

Basically, I'm not completely against a 3000-word cap, but I think exceptions need to be made if such a cap results in sacrificing a lot of great material.

[Nessafox]

Well i think that's a valid point you have there.

[pi314159]

Can I ask what people think of splitting profiles into multiple parts like what was done with Claes and Super Aguri as an alternative to a 3000-word cap? There are some subjects that I feel would suffer under such a limit, and I can't help but feel I may be the cause of these fears over word counts, given that I've written a profile that's about the length of Atlas Shrugged and has had, from what I can see, a very divided reception. If I'd had the Buemi profile finished, say, a week before, it almost certainly would have been split into separate parts like with the previous Super Aguri and Claes profiles, which I can only imagine would have made for easier reading. In fact, I even thought about dividing it up to be published in parts over the course of the season in case it wasn't finished in time.

I will admit that the Buemi profile could have been a lot shorter, but I don't feel there's any way it could have been done inside 3000 words, and would rather see comprehensive (within reason) profiles spread over a small number of 3000-word pages than just a single abbreviated 3000-word piece.

Basically, I'm not completely against a 3000-word cap, but I think exceptions need to be made if such a cap results in sacrificing a lot of great material.

I definitely agree. 3000 words is really not much. It's fine when covering a driver who only did a few races in Formula 1, but for drivers with longer careers or team profiles, a 3000 word limit prevents in-depth articles. For example, a 3000 word article about AGS would merely scratch at the surface.

If you look at the profiles we've already published, most of them exceed the 3000 words considerably, and it would be hard to edit them down to 3000 without compromising quality a lot.

The Buemi profile was maybe a bit much (and I fear the same can be said about my work in progress HRT article), but a 3000 word limit is a step too far in the opposite direction.

Edit: I counted the words for some already published articles:

F1 1998 Review - 1275 words
Manor Obituary - 1481 words
Phoenix - 1812 words
In Memoriam - 2436 words
Don Beauman - 4447 words
Geki - 8198 words
Lucas di Grassi - 9524 words
Pedro Lamy - 11102 words
Sebastien Buemi - 27089 words

[Ataxia]

The implication of "soft cap" was that it's flexible to some degree. Regardless, I'm open to discussion.

The reason I set a target of 3000 words is that this was the general length of the old team articles, which gained something of a cult following; and in the case of larger team articles, Coloni was about 3800 words and Forti was about 3500. The driver profiles were longer, and perhaps that's something I should have checked before. Badoer's profile, for example, was just under 6000 words.

That said, I want a limit. I messed up with the Di Grassi article because I spent way too long focusing on his pre-F1 career, and although it's a nice thing to have, I didn't need to log every result in tedious prose. We need to look at it from the perspective of telling a story, not trying to cover absolutely everything; we're not writing technical journals!

Ultimately, we write these things because we derive some pleasure from it, and so I'll leave it up to you guys to use your best judgement here. I'm probably just being obtuse.

[Bobby Doorknobs]

I'm probably just being obtuse.

Nope, now you're being acute.

[Nuppiz]

I agree that the word caps should merely be guidelines and not strict rules. If there is a lot of interesting information from a team or driver that's not widely available elsewhere on the internet, then I prefer if everything is included instead of some bits being left out just to make the article fit under a certain word limit. But I also agree that the articles should concentrate on the F1 portion of each subject and only give a recap of the most important moments of their career/history in other series. An article which goes on seemingly endlessly just listing all of the race results of a certain driver or team gets boring really quickly, because in most cases these can easily be found elsewhere.

[AndreaModa]

The reason I set a target of 3000 words is that this was the general length of the old team articles, which gained something of a cult following; and in the case of larger team articles, Coloni was about 3800 words and Forti was about 3500. The driver profiles were longer, and perhaps that's something I should have checked before. Badoer's profile, for example, was just under 6000 words.

That was Enoch's real skill - being able to articulate a team's fortunes over a number of seasons in a succinct, easy to digest style. This isn't Buzzfeed or the Metro but I think there's a legitimate reason why any author should try and keep their articles as short as possible.

It's not about leaving out facts, it's about telling a story and selecting what you include to accurately tell that story. Supporting an argument e.g. (I'm improvising here)

"It became well-known for Grouillard to be a nightmare for faster drivers to lap during a race, but this was already apparent before he'd even graduated to the big leagues. At the F3000 race in Birmingham in 1987, he held up race leader Alex Caffi for a lap and a half, almost costing the Italian the race victory."

All of that is completely made up by the way, but if you were writing an article about Grouillard, that and perhaps one or two other anecdotes, might be all you mention of one particular season when he was in F3000. No one cares if he finished 14th - that can all be found on Wikipedia. Creative a narrative and weave the facts into it.

Jeez, I should put my money where my mouth is shouldn't I? Sorry, all of this is just me trying to help. As you were.

[Ataxia]

Creative a narrative and weave the facts into it.

That's exactly what I'm after, really. Thanks to recent events, I'm in a position where I can get professional feedback on the work posted here, and people are FAR more receptive to something that has a narrative and reads well rather than trying to cram every single tiny detail in.

I think the word cap has been misinterpreted in its intent; it's not there to stop you from putting interesting bits of information in, and it's not there to curb creativity. Rather, I want to implement it to get our contributors thinking about how best to knit the story together, for example: how do I include that really interesting fact into the text? How do I cover his pre-season career in as much detail as possible without using 3000 words to do it? How do I get the reader to see that this team/driver was underrated/a farce?

As I say before, we're story-tellers. Everyone and their mother in the mainstream media can tell the story of Ayrton Senna, but we're spinning the yarns (there's a lot of textile-themed metaphors here) of the Ricardo Rossets and the Gaston Mazzacanes of the world. Let's do that with passion and flair.

Slight addendum: I appreciate that this issue makes me sound ridiculously ungrateful to everyone who's contributed to the site. I'm not, I'm immensely proud of everyone and the work they've done is brilliant. However, I just think we need to be on the same page with format and not be afraid to push ourselves a little bit further.

[Nessafox]

Like i once mentioned before, it quite depends on how fresh in the memory a driver is.

The problem with Buemi was that most people still know who he was, thus making it harder to read all trough this, whilst a profile of similar length of some fifties driver reads a lot better. It's a difficult situation though, because of course, at some point, the likes of Buemi and Di Grassi will also be forgotten.

Nah Ataxia, we appreciate your effort. You just want to be sure everyone is one the same line, but we know that you're not trying to dictate that line.

[Ataxia]

So, after a year of writing for GPR, my situation has changed a little. Long story short, I was invited to become part of Motorsport.com's team at Silverstone this weekend, covering FV8 3.5 and ELMS.

Working the V8 3.5 paddock primarily, I managed to score plenty of driver interviews and chat to them a bit, and although the field is incredibly small you really feel like everyone wants to be there. A couple of drivers (mainly the SMP Racing guys...) were a bit grumpy, but guys like Fittipaldi, Mason, Celis and Menchaca were a joy to talk to.

The series PR people were also lovely, and the end result was that I managed to score a one-on-one interview with Jaime Alguersuari Sr about the series' future. Some of the quotes collected may appear elsewhere, it kinda depends on the guidance I get. I also got to break the Orudzhev disqualification news (although it later emerged that the Teo Martin PR people beat me to it, so yeah...) which was pretty f*cking cool.

Yes, I appreciate probably comes across as a bit of a brag, but I wanted to thank the forum primarily for giving me the confidence to go and write about motorsport. Everyone's feedback has been great, and it's really helped me on the path to doing this as an actual f*cking career. So, thank you guys.

[DemocalypseNow]

You will never be forgiven for completely missing Chanoch Nissany when he was stood right in front of you though!

[Ataxia]

You will never be forgiven for completely missing Chanoch Nissany when he was stood right in front of you though!

I dun goofed...I am sorry.

[CoopsII]

Yes, I appreciate probably comes across as a bit of a brag,

It does and it's brilliant so brag away! I think we all want to read stuff like that.

[watka]

Well done Ataxia, really exciting that your making your way in motorsport journalism!

[Ataxia]

As we're now well and truly into the second half of 2017 (where's the time gone?!), I'd like to ask what sort of things you'd like to see next! I'm totally not asking this because I've blown my load with the Prost & Asiatech articles, oh no...

So, what's working for you, and what could we improve? What would you like us to write about?

Feel free to share any ideas and thoughts, and I'll sure it'll be something we can discuss and work into a hopefully-readable format.

We've also had to cut one of our planned articles for a couple of reasons...on an unrelated note (promise!), do feel free to buy Autosport on July 27th...

[Peteroli34]

As we're now well and truly into the second half of 2017 (where's the time gone?!), I'd like to ask what sort of things you'd like to see next! I'm totally not asking this because I've blown my load with the Prost & Asiatech articles, oh no...

So, what's working for you, and what could we improve? What would you like us to write about?

Feel free to share any ideas and thoughts, and I'll sure it'll be something we can discuss and work into a hopefully-readable format.

We've also had to cut one of our planned articles for a couple of reasons...on an unrelated note (promise!), do feel free to buy Autosport on July 27th...

The obvious answer is more caterpillars that look like Guiterrez eyebrows

[FullMetalJack]

As we're now well and truly into the second half of 2017 (where's the time gone?!), I'd like to ask what sort of things you'd like to see next! I'm totally not asking this because I've blown my load with the Prost & Asiatech articles, oh no...

So, what's working for you, and what could we improve? What would you like us to write about?

Feel free to share any ideas and thoughts, and I'll sure it'll be something we can discuss and work into a hopefully-readable format.

We've also had to cut one of our planned articles for a couple of reasons...on an unrelated note (promise!), do feel free to buy Autosport on July 27th...

As we've had articles about ill-fated chassis and engine partnerships before, how about one of the most rejectful around? Coloni Subaru!

[Peteroli34]

As we're now well and truly into the second half of 2017 (where's the time gone?!), I'd like to ask what sort of things you'd like to see next! I'm totally not asking this because I've blown my load with the Prost & Asiatech articles, oh no...

So, what's working for you, and what could we improve? What would you like us to write about?

Feel free to share any ideas and thoughts, and I'll sure it'll be something we can discuss and work into a hopefully-readable format.

We've also had to cut one of our planned articles for a couple of reasons...on an unrelated note (promise!), do feel free to buy Autosport on July 27th...

What about the Jordan - Midland - Spyker - Force India 4 owners in as many years is quite a feat if you think about it..

[Nessafox]

What about the long discussed article about Theodore, are they still working on it?

[dr-baker]

In the same vein as the F1 computer game review series, I would like to see a film review series of articles. Grand Prix, Le Mans, Michel Vaillant, Talladega Nights, Senna, TT Closer to the Edge, Driven, Herbie, etc

[Bobby Doorknobs]

In the same vein as the F1 computer game review series, I would like to see a film review series of articles. Grand Prix, Le Mans, Michel Vaillant, Talladega Nights, Senna, TT Closer to the Edge, Driven, Herbie, etc

I do plan on taking this on, naturally, although I am busy with research/writing on a driver profile and some other real-life things at present. But I will absolutely get around to it.

What about the long discussed article about Theodore, are they still working on it?

I don't believe we ever had one in the pipeline. Under the updated criteria, Theodore are not a reject team, buuuut I would very much be in favour of a piece on the great things Teddy Yip and Sid Taylor did for young drivers in the seventies and early eighties. Some of the drivers they helped along were unfortunate not to escape reject status (or F1 was never their thing in the first place, obviously varies).

[dr-baker]

In the same vein as the F1 computer game review series, I would like to see a film review series of articles. Grand Prix, Le Mans, Michel Vaillant, Talladega Nights, Senna, TT Closer to the Edge, Driven, Herbie, etc

I do plan on taking this on, naturally, although I am busy with research/writing on a driver profile and some other real-life things at present. But I will absolutely get around to it.

Cool stuff.

[WaffleCat]

You know something, given my recent thing I'm doing, writing posts about random drivers on reddit, I'd like to throw my hat into the ring and try to write up some driver profiles in order to fill in some gaps, starting off with a driver that I've covered on reddit before, Ken Richardson.

Granted, my current posts on reddit are nowhere even close to the current word limit (Richardson's is at 792, another post on Gerhard Mitter is on 752), but I know I was definitely cutting out pieces of info within the Richardson post just so that I could finish it in three hours. It'll be quite easy for me to bulk up these posts, especially Richardson's.

Only one question: How exactly could I possibly get a profile that I wrote considered for publication on the site???

[Bobby Doorknobs]

Only one question: How exactly could I possibly get a profile that I wrote considered for publication on the site???

We have a Google Drive group, or you can just email one of the folks with access to the GPR Wordpress (Biscione, Ataxia, myself, Tommy as well, I think). Just be sure to leave no stone unturned, or if you're you're out of stones to turn, then, er, put them back the way you found them.

[Ataxia]

You know something, given my recent thing I'm doing, writing posts about random drivers on reddit, I'd like to throw my hat into the ring and try to write up some driver profiles in order to fill in some gaps, starting off with a driver that I've covered on reddit before, Ken Richardson.

Granted, my current posts on reddit are nowhere even close to the current word limit (Richardson's is at 792, another post on Gerhard Mitter is on 752), but I know I was definitely cutting out pieces of info within the Richardson post just so that I could finish it in three hours. It'll be quite easy for me to bulk up these posts, especially Richardson's.

Only one question: How exactly could I possibly get a profile that I wrote considered for publication on the site???

The "word limit" (which is only advisory anyway) is more of a maximum boundary than a minimum one. I've seen the Reddit posts and they're very good; if you're planning to add anything, make sure it slots nicely into the overall narrative so it continues to read well.

Personally, I've moved away from doing overall driver profiles because I just can't quite get them up to Simtek/tommykl level, so obviously they're your best bets when it comes to discussing formats and such.

[Ataxia]

Dear all,

Since we're just over half way into our Advent Calendar (certainly our most ambitious project yet!), I'd like to thank our fantastic contributions from East Londoner, Simtek, tommykl, WaffleCat and pinkd56, without them, this wouldn't have happened. I'd also like to thank Biscione for continuing to host our work and providing much-needed technical assistance with everything.

Our first full year at this has been a lot better, and having more professional feedback for our articles and a more consistent content stream has really worked out well for us. Everyone else who has contributed this year - Miguel98 (the Pedro Lamy profile did rather well), pi314159 (I promise we'll get your HRT work out there) and kevinbotz (who's been a fantastic and willing proofreader) and more - thank you so much for your efforts.

As things stand, we're just in the early stages of working out what to do at the turn of 2018. We've got a few things scheduled and people willing to contribute, but from my side there's no way I can produce as much as I have over the past year. I've picked up some freelance work with James Allen's blog, which is a really nice gig, but it means I've really got to scale back, especially if things become as involved as he's planning.

So, I need to share the load. If anyone's interested in contributing more for the site, and has CMS experience (WordPress being capricious at the best of times) then please drop me a DM and we can discuss what we've got going on.

And you, our audience. Thank you for supporting our efforts, for reading and sharing our posts, and we hope you've enjoyed every minute of it.

Thank you!

Jake

[Ataxia]

Dear all,

Since we're just over half way into our Advent Calendar (certainly our most ambitious project yet!), I'd like to thank our fantastic contributions from East Londoner, Simtek, tommykl, WaffleCat and pinkd56, without them, this wouldn't have happened. I'd also like to thank Biscione for continuing to host our work and providing much-needed technical assistance with everything.

Our first full year at this has been a lot better, and having more professional feedback for our articles and a more consistent content stream has really worked out well for us. Everyone else who has contributed this year - Miguel98 (the Pedro Lamy profile did rather well), pi314159 (I promise we'll get your HRT work out there) and kevinbotz (who's been a fantastic and willing proofreader) and more - thank you so much for your efforts.

As things stand, we're just in the early stages of working out what to do at the turn of 2018. We've got a few things scheduled and people willing to contribute, but from my side there's no way I can produce as much as I have over the past year. I've picked up some freelance work with James Allen's blog, which is a really nice gig, but it means I've really got to scale back, especially if things become as involved as he's planning.

So, I need to share the load. If anyone's interested in contributing more for the site, and has CMS experience (WordPress being capricious at the best of times) then please drop me a DM and we can discuss what we've got going on.

And you, our audience. Thank you for supporting our efforts, for reading and sharing our posts, and we hope you've enjoyed every minute of it.

Thank you!

Jake

This has now changed once more. I can't give you the exact specs because...well, I don't know if I can make it public or not, but suffice it to say that I'm going to have to completely renounce all editorial duties in the new year.

From a personal perspective, it's a really good thing, but at the same time I don't want to leave this and have new content slowly grind to a halt, especially since the Advent Calendar's done so well. Let's just say writing for GPR has led to some incredibly interesting things...so it's honestly a great opportunity.

[dr-baker]

Dear all,

Since we're just over half way into our Advent Calendar (certainly our most ambitious project yet!), I'd like to thank our fantastic contributions from East Londoner, Simtek, tommykl, WaffleCat and pinkd56, without them, this wouldn't have happened. I'd also like to thank Biscione for continuing to host our work and providing much-needed technical assistance with everything.

Our first full year at this has been a lot better, and having more professional feedback for our articles and a more consistent content stream has really worked out well for us. Everyone else who has contributed this year - Miguel98 (the Pedro Lamy profile did rather well), pi314159 (I promise we'll get your HRT work out there) and kevinbotz (who's been a fantastic and willing proofreader) and more - thank you so much for your efforts.

As things stand, we're just in the early stages of working out what to do at the turn of 2018. We've got a few things scheduled and people willing to contribute, but from my side there's no way I can produce as much as I have over the past year. I've picked up some freelance work with James Allen's blog, which is a really nice gig, but it means I've really got to scale back, especially if things become as involved as he's planning.

So, I need to share the load. If anyone's interested in contributing more for the site, and has CMS experience (WordPress being capricious at the best of times) then please drop me a DM and we can discuss what we've got going on.

And you, our audience. Thank you for supporting our efforts, for reading and sharing our posts, and we hope you've enjoyed every minute of it.

Thank you!

Jake

This has now changed once more. I can't give you the exact specs because...well, I don't know if I can make it public or not, but suffice it to say that I'm going to have to completely renounce all editorial duties in the new year.

From a personal perspective, it's a really good thing, but at the same time I don't want to leave this and have new content slowly grind to a halt, especially since the Advent Calendar's done so well. Let's just say writing for GPR has led to some incredibly interesting things...so it's honestly a great opportunity.

Sounds exciting for you on a personal level. I wish you all the best for your career prospects!

[Ataxia]

I can, at last, make this official. After a year of freelancing for Autosport et al, I'm now going off to be the junior press officer for Formula 2 and GP3. Which is kinda cool.

[dr-baker]

I can, at last, make this official. After a year of freelancing for Autosport et al, I'm now going off to be the junior press officer for Formula 2 and GP3. Which is kinda cool.

That does indeed sound cool. Congratulations!

[Warren Hughes]

I can, at last, make this official. After a year of freelancing for Autosport et al, I'm now going off to be the junior press officer for Formula 2 and GP3. Which is kinda cool.

Get you! Congratulations!

[takagi_for_the_win]

I can, at last, make this official. After a year of freelancing for Autosport et al, I'm now going off to be the junior press officer for Formula 2 and GP3. Which is kinda cool.

Nice one. Congrats mate

[Londoner]

I can, at last, make this official. After a year of freelancing for Autosport et al, I'm now going off to be the junior press officer for Formula 2 and GP3. Which is kinda cool.

Yeah, and now he's going to leave us and hang out with his new cool friends. Don't you ever forget us...

...but it's not all doom and gloom on the forum. You still got me...with a load of brand new powers.

But srsly, congrats once again mate.

[Ataxia]

Thank you all!

Yeah, and now he's going to leave us and hang out with his new cool friends. Don't you ever forget us...

Oh for g...

...I'm not 100% leaving. I probably won't be anywhere near as active as I've been in the past, we'll have to see, but I'll still keep in touch at the very least. Unless, of course, you want me gone...