Grand Prix Rejects

good_Ralf wrote:

mario wrote:A 32 cylinder engine sounds like a recipe for disaster.

This.

Ha ha mario, to sum up how much of a disaster it was, it was abandoned before it hit the track because it was to complex

Did anyone want a clue.?

roblomas52 wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

mario wrote:A 32 cylinder engine sounds like a recipe for disaster.

This.

Ha ha mario, to sum up how much of a disaster it was, it was abandoned before it hit the track because it was to complex

Did anyone want a clue.?

Yes please.
A 32 cylinder engine sounds insane. The BRM V16 had tiny pistons so it was more watch-making than engineering.

Faustus wrote:

roblomas52 wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:
This.

Ha ha mario, to sum up how much of a disaster it was, it was abandoned before it hit the track because it was to complex

Did anyone want a clue.?

Yes please.
A 32 cylinder engine sounds insane. The BRM V16 had tiny pistons so it was more watch-making than engineering.

It was made by a manufacture.

I still can't think who it could have been but I am very curious to find out.

(edit)

Hah! Now I know! It was Honda! You mentioned it in the 'What If' thread.

A complete stab in the dark there, but could it be an early plan for when Honda first entered F1 in the 60s?

tommykl wrote:A complete stab in the dark there, but could it be an early plan for when Honda first entered F1 in the 60s?

Faustus wrote:I still can't think who it could have been but I am very curious to find out.

(edit)

Hah! Now I know! It was Honda! You mentioned it in the 'What If' thread.

yes it was Honda.


Edit

that will teach me for posting the answer in annother thread

roblomas52 wrote:

tommykl wrote:A complete stab in the dark there, but could it be an early plan for when Honda first entered F1 in the 60s?

Faustus wrote:I still can't think who it could have been but I am very curious to find out.

(edit)

Hah! Now I know! It was Honda! You mentioned it in the 'What If' thread.

yes it was Honda.


Edit

that will teach me for posting the answer in annother thread

Can you post more details about the proposal? Like Faustus, I am very intrigued by that particular project.

mario wrote:

roblomas52 wrote:

tommykl wrote:A complete stab in the dark there, but could it be an early plan for when Honda first entered F1 in the 60s?

Faustus wrote:I still can't think who it could have been but I am very curious to find out.

(edit)

Hah! Now I know! It was Honda! You mentioned it in the 'What If' thread.

yes it was Honda.


Edit

that will teach me for posting the answer in annother thread

Can you post more details about the proposal? Like Faustus, I am very intrigued by that particular project.

For sure, unfortunatly, not a lot is known about it but i will try and unearth some stuff about it.

(Edit)

I already knew it was a 3000CC engine with 4 vales per cylinder.

32x4=128 valves in the whole engine. Now is where things get complicated though.

In order to achieve this, each cylinder had a capacity of 93.75CC and the engine it was replacing; the 60-degree V12 from the RA271(which is the main comparisson to this engine) had a displacment 125CC per cylinder.

I then worked out that 2.66REC V12's would give the number of cylinders needed for the X32 so I then worked roughly how much power it had.

The V12 had 240HP at 11,000 RPM so to work this out, the RPM and HP were x2.66REC.
240x2.66REC=640HP.

11,000x2.66REC=29,333.33REC RPM.

Of course, the RPM answer sounds highly unlikley so divided it by 1.33REC to get 22.564.1026 RPM.

Based on what I know, the X32, like the V12 would have had twin choke carburettors and indirect fuel injection desighned by Keihin.

My best estimate on the power output is going to be 560HP at 16,000RPM and thats a conservitive estimate based on what I know.

Now these figures are guesses and it may be the closest we will ever get to finding out the true story as Honda abandoned the project because it was to complicated and unreliable.

(sorry if it turned into a wee bit of a lecture)

roblomas52 wrote:For sure, unfortunatly, not a lot is known about it but i will try and unearth some stuff about it.

(Edit)

I already knew it was a 3000CC engine with 4 vales per cylinder.

32x4=128 valves in the whole engine. Now is where things get complicated though.

In order to achieve this, each cylinder had a capacity of 93.75CC and the engine it was replacing; the 60-degree V12 from the RA271(which is the main comparisson to this engine) had a displacment 125CC per cylinder.

I then worked out that 2.66REC V12's would give the number of cylinders needed for the X32 so I then worked roughly how much power it had.

The V12 had 240HP at 11,000 RPM so to work this out, the RPM and HP were x2.66REC.
240x2.66REC=640HP.

11,000x2.66REC=29,333.33REC RPM.

Of course, the RPM answer sounds highly unlikley so divided it by 1.33REC to get 22.564.1026 RPM.

Based on what I know, the X32, like the V12 would have had twin choke carburettors and indirect fuel injection desighned by Keihin.

My best estimate on the power output is going to be 560HP at 16,000RPM and thats a conservitive estimate based on what I know.

Now these figures are guesses and it may be the closest we will ever get to finding out the true story as Honda abandoned the project because it was to complicated and unreliable.

(sorry if it turned into a wee bit of a lecture)

My initial gut feeling is that it might be better to wind the maximum revs down a bit more than that - most other engine manufacturers of the time were limited to around 12,000-13,000 rpm at most (issues such as fatigue were insurmountable at the time - it is one reason why pneumatic valve trains were so readily adopted once the technology was mature enough to be used in F1).
Honda did claim that they could rev the late season RA271 to about 14,000 over a single lap, but that abuse could only really be tolerated for a single qualifying session - most of the time it was limited to about 13,000 rpm. Even then, the idea of trying to make that many separate moving parts somehow work together without the engine simply tearing itself to bits seems like a very daunting challenge...

mario wrote:

roblomas52 wrote:For sure, unfortunatly, not a lot is known about it but i will try and unearth some stuff about it.

(Edit)

I already knew it was a 3000CC engine with 4 vales per cylinder.

32x4=128 valves in the whole engine. Now is where things get complicated though.

In order to achieve this, each cylinder had a capacity of 93.75CC and the engine it was replacing; the 60-degree V12 from the RA271(which is the main comparisson to this engine) had a displacment 125CC per cylinder.

I then worked out that 2.66REC V12's would give the number of cylinders needed for the X32 so I then worked roughly how much power it had.

The V12 had 240HP at 11,000 RPM so to work this out, the RPM and HP were x2.66REC.
240x2.66REC=640HP.

11,000x2.66REC=29,333.33REC RPM.

Of course, the RPM answer sounds highly unlikley so divided it by 1.33REC to get 22.564.1026 RPM.

Based on what I know, the X32, like the V12 would have had twin choke carburettors and indirect fuel injection desighned by Keihin.

My best estimate on the power output is going to be 560HP at 16,000RPM and thats a conservitive estimate based on what I know.

Now these figures are guesses and it may be the closest we will ever get to finding out the true story as Honda abandoned the project because it was to complicated and unreliable.

(sorry if it turned into a wee bit of a lecture)

My initial gut feeling is that it might be better to wind the maximum revs down a bit more than that - most other engine manufacturers of the time were limited to around 12,000-13,000 rpm at most (issues such as fatigue were insurmountable at the time - it is one reason why pneumatic valve trains were so readily adopted once the technology was mature enough to be used in F1).
Honda did claim that they could rev the late season RA271 to about 14,000 over a single lap, but that abuse could only really be tolerated for a single qualifying session - most of the time it was limited to about 13,000 rpm. Even then, the idea of trying to make that many separate moving parts somehow work together without the engine simply tearing itself to bits seems like a very daunting challenge...

My RPM figure was based on the theory that if an engine has more pistons, the pistons will be lighter due to the fact they will be smaller. Using the DFV as an example, because it has 8 large pistons in its 3L of capacity, the size of each piston would be 375CC. The X32 would have had a piston cappacity of 93.75CC. 375CC divided by 93.75CC is 4. Therefore it would take 4 X32 pistons to get the same piston capacity as 1 piston from a DFV.

In reality though, methinks the X32 would have revved to 14,500 in race trim but with the potential for more as the technology matured.

roblomas52 wrote:

mario wrote:My initial gut feeling is that it might be better to wind the maximum revs down a bit more than that - most other engine manufacturers of the time were limited to around 12,000-13,000 rpm at most (issues such as fatigue were insurmountable at the time - it is one reason why pneumatic valve trains were so readily adopted once the technology was mature enough to be used in F1).
Honda did claim that they could rev the late season RA271 to about 14,000 over a single lap, but that abuse could only really be tolerated for a single qualifying session - most of the time it was limited to about 13,000 rpm. Even then, the idea of trying to make that many separate moving parts somehow work together without the engine simply tearing itself to bits seems like a very daunting challenge...

My RPM figure was based on the theory that if an engine has more pistons, the pistons will be lighter due to the fact they will be smaller. Using the DFV as an example, because it has 8 large pistons in its 3L of capacity, the size of each piston would be 375CC. The X32 would have had a piston cappacity of 93.75CC. 375CC divided by 93.75CC is 4. Therefore it would take 4 X32 pistons to get the same piston capacity as 1 piston from a DFV.

In reality though, methinks the X32 would have revved to 14,500 in race trim but with the potential for more as the technology matured.

The engine speed could have ended up pretty crazy, even back in the sixties. Weren't 50cc motorbike racing engines revving to 16000 rpm back then?

Faustus wrote:

roblomas52 wrote:

mario wrote:My initial gut feeling is that it might be better to wind the maximum revs down a bit more than that - most other engine manufacturers of the time were limited to around 12,000-13,000 rpm at most (issues such as fatigue were insurmountable at the time - it is one reason why pneumatic valve trains were so readily adopted once the technology was mature enough to be used in F1).
Honda did claim that they could rev the late season RA271 to about 14,000 over a single lap, but that abuse could only really be tolerated for a single qualifying session - most of the time it was limited to about 13,000 rpm. Even then, the idea of trying to make that many separate moving parts somehow work together without the engine simply tearing itself to bits seems like a very daunting challenge...

My RPM figure was based on the theory that if an engine has more pistons, the pistons will be lighter due to the fact they will be smaller. Using the DFV as an example, because it has 8 large pistons in its 3L of capacity, the size of each piston would be 375CC. The X32 would have had a piston cappacity of 93.75CC. 375CC divided by 93.75CC is 4. Therefore it would take 4 X32 pistons to get the same piston capacity as 1 piston from a DFV.

In reality though, methinks the X32 would have revved to 14,500 in race trim but with the potential for more as the technology matured.

The engine speed could have ended up pretty crazy, even back in the sixties. Weren't 50cc motorbike racing engines revving to 16000 rpm back then?

Yeah because I have just found out that Honda got 1700RPM from their 50CC engine in 1961

Faustus wrote:

roblomas52 wrote:

mario wrote:My initial gut feeling is that it might be better to wind the maximum revs down a bit more than that - most other engine manufacturers of the time were limited to around 12,000-13,000 rpm at most (issues such as fatigue were insurmountable at the time - it is one reason why pneumatic valve trains were so readily adopted once the technology was mature enough to be used in F1).
Honda did claim that they could rev the late season RA271 to about 14,000 over a single lap, but that abuse could only really be tolerated for a single qualifying session - most of the time it was limited to about 13,000 rpm. Even then, the idea of trying to make that many separate moving parts somehow work together without the engine simply tearing itself to bits seems like a very daunting challenge...

My RPM figure was based on the theory that if an engine has more pistons, the pistons will be lighter due to the fact they will be smaller. Using the DFV as an example, because it has 8 large pistons in its 3L of capacity, the size of each piston would be 375CC. The X32 would have had a piston cappacity of 93.75CC. 375CC divided by 93.75CC is 4. Therefore it would take 4 X32 pistons to get the same piston capacity as 1 piston from a DFV.

In reality though, methinks the X32 would have revved to 14,500 in race trim but with the potential for more as the technology matured.

The engine speed could have ended up pretty crazy, even back in the sixties. Weren't 50cc motorbike racing engines revving to 16000 rpm back then?

And of course Honda have always managed to make engines with redlines somewhere up in the stratosphere- the S800 had a redline of around 10,000 rpm if I remember rightly, so knowing Honda 14,500 rpm is a fairly decent guess

I have a WRC one

Colin McRae is someone we know pushed the car to the absolute limit and because of this his highest amount of podiums achieved in a season is much lower than Makinen Sainz and Loeb for example

My question is this: What's the highest amount of Podiums Colin McRae achieved in a season?

9

No keep guessing

I don't know much about the history of rallying but my guess is 5

good_Ralf wrote:I don't know much about the history of rallying but my guess is 5

Oh so close

Is it 6?

roblomas52 wrote:Is it 6?

Yes. McRae achieved 6 podiums in 1997 and 2000.

1992: 1
1993: 2
1994: 2
1995: 5
1996: 4
1997: 6
1998: 5
1999: 2
2000: 6
2001: 5
2002: 3
2003: 1

Here's one for you:

Who were the last two drivers ever to officially drive a works-run Honda F1 car?

Hmmmm. I think I know one... didn't Takuma Sato do a demo run against an IndyCar in the RA07 once?

Wizzie wrote:Here's one for you:

Who were the last two drivers ever to officially drive a works-run Honda F1 car?

Salamander wrote:Hmmmm. I think I know one... didn't Takuma Sato do a demo run against an IndyCar in the RA07 once?

And I'm guessing the other was the guy employed to drive the adapted Honda to 400 km/hr along Bonneville Salt Flats?

Google tells me that this was Alan van der Merwe. And that this attempt happened in... 2006. So maybe not then!

Wizzie wrote:Here's one for you:

Who were the last two drivers ever to officially drive a works-run Honda F1 car?

I can't shake off the feeling it's a trick question.

John Surtees and the late Jo Schlesser.

If we're talking the 2006 - 08 Honda, then one of them was definitely Bruno Senna - he tested for them after the 2008 season finished but before Honda pulled the plug. Possibly the other was Anthony Davidson, as I don't think either Button or Barrichello were involved.

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

Wizzie wrote:Here's one for you:

Who were the last two drivers ever to officially drive a works-run Honda F1 car?

I can't shake off the feeling it's a trick question.

John Surtees and the late Jo Schlesser.

Me too. I don't want to say 2008

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

Wizzie wrote:Here's one for you:

Who were the last two drivers ever to officially drive a works-run Honda F1 car?

I can't shake off the feeling it's a trick question.

John Surtees and the late Jo Schlesser.

Me too. I don't want to say 2008

Going down this line of thought, I'm tempted to throw Jos Verstappen's name into the debate!

Takuma Sato surely? He did private demo tests didn't he?

Anyway, Can someone please tell me if Prost got some sort of a penalty or a fine for using 5 drives in one season? (2001) They started with Alesi and Mazzacane and finished with HHF and Enge with a bit of Burti in the middle. We're they allowed to at the time?

A few from the 2003 WRC Season

1 Marko Martin won in Greece but what was the bizarre event he had midway through the rally?
2 Who did Harri Rovenpera crash into in Sweden?
3 Who was the only driver to crash on dry tires on a wet track in San Remo?
4 Who was the highest Finn in the rally of Finland and where did he finish?
5 Why did Richard Burns not start the Rally GB?

AdrianSutil wrote:Anyway, Can someone please tell me if Prost got some sort of a penalty or a fine for using 5 drives in one season? (2001) They started with Alesi and Mazzacane and finished with HHF and Enge with a bit of Burti in the middle. We're they allowed to at the time?

At the time, teams were allowed one driver change for their first car, and three driver changes in the second car.

Ergo, Alesi was replaced by Frentzen in the first car, and Mazzacane was replaced by Burti and then Enge in the second car.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:A few from the 2003 WRC Season

5 Why did Richard Burns not start the Rally GB?

This was when he collapsed at the wheel on the way to the event, ended up in hospital and was diagnosed with his life-limited cancer, wasn't it? Thank goodness he had a fellow rally driver in the car with him to prevent a nasty motorway crash (Marko Martin, I believe).

Yes it was sad especially since he was poised to return to Subaru in 2004. Makes a great what if that one

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

AdrianSutil wrote:Anyway, Can someone please tell me if Prost got some sort of a penalty or a fine for using 5 drives in one season? (2001) They started with Alesi and Mazzacane and finished with HHF and Enge with a bit of Burti in the middle. We're they allowed to at the time?

At the time, teams were allowed one driver change for their first car, and three driver changes in the second car.

Ergo, Alesi was replaced by Frentzen in the first car, and Mazzacane was replaced by Burti and then Enge in the second car.

Well that seemed a strange rule but thanks for letting me know. Il sleep easy at night now

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:A few from the 2003 WRC Season

1 Marko Martin won in Greece but what was the bizarre event he had midway through the rally?
2 Who did Harri Rovenpera crash into in Sweden?
3 Who was the only driver to crash on dry tires on a wet track in San Remo?

1. Bodywork-related problem, I think. Something about hood or doors.
2. Juuso Pykalisto
3. I vaguely remember it was one of the Peugeots... Gronholm?

cretoxyrhina wrote:

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:A few from the 2003 WRC Season

1 Marko Martin won in Greece but what was the bizarre event he had midway through the rally?
2 Who did Harri Rovenpera crash into in Sweden?
3 Who was the only driver to crash on dry tires on a wet track in San Remo?

1. Bodywork-related problem, I think. Something about hood or doors.
2. Juuso Pykalisto
3. I vaguely remember it was one of the Peugeots... Gronholm?

1 The Bonnet flew up dramatically forcing him to drive 20k with no sight
2 Correct. What made it worse was that Pykalisto was in a Bozian run 206 and Harri was in the works car
3 Correct guess. Gronholm slid into the wall and smashed the left side of his car and made it 5 retirements in 6 rallies

No one has got 4 yet

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:4 Who was the highest Finn in the rally of Finland and where did he finish?

Tommi Makkinen?

Backmarker wrote:

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:4 Who was the highest Finn in the rally of Finland and where did he finish?

Tommi Makkinen?

Yes in 6th. Went downhill for Finland after Gronholm retired with Suspension damage when leading and Rovenpera crashed. Tommi looked disinterested that year apart from Sweden and Britain.

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:4 Who was the highest Finn in the rally of Finland and where did he finish?

A 17 year old named Juha who, on the eve, bought enough "white powder" to stone a small elephant. Needless to say, Juha's view of the rally was somewhat different to everyone else's and he finished in a small pine forest on the outskirts of Helsinki, on the run from the bloody big dragon that had been chasing him since Stage 4.

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:4 Who was the highest Finn in the rally of Finland and where did he finish?

A 17 year old named Juha who, on the eve, bought enough "white powder" to stone a small elephant. Needless to say, Juha's view of the rally was somewhat different to everyone else's and he finished in a small pine forest on the outskirts of Helsinki, on the run from the bloody big dragon that had been chasing him since Stage 4.

While that is a good story it's not as good as your Stoke vs Hull post in the Soccer Thread

Which sponsor appeared on the Williams towards the end of 2006?