Grand Prix Rejects

What if Indy Stewards reach in the conclusion of Penske tried to sabotage Dixon in order to help Castroneves in the championship with the pitcrew and with Power crashing with him?

Dark77 wrote:What if Piquet died in this crash?

Maybe Piquet had turned a hero/idol, like Senna, in your home soil. Also, I think Cart had make changes in your rules in that year, for driver safety. Also, some F1 drivers never had come to Cart.

Bleu wrote:What if Ferrari had repeated their Austrian GP events at the European GP at the Nürburgring 2002? Not really what if about the championship, but the reactions around it and so on.

Probably Ferrari had both of your cars disqualified from the race, since he got a huge fine for this in Austria. Some team bosses had pressure FIA for a severe punishment (Briatore asked for a Ferrari DSQ in that race). F1 fans start to boycott the races and some impact in F1 revenue.

For 2003 season, FIA announces that Team Orders rules are more strict.

Dj_bereta wrote:Probably Ferrari had both of your cars disqualified from the race, since he got a huge fine for this in Austria.

Kimi Raikkonen's first victory! Button's first podium too.

Dj_bereta wrote:What if Indy Stewards reach in the conclusion of Penske tried to sabotage Dixon in order to help Castroneves in the championship with the pitcrew and with Power crashing with him?

Dark77 wrote:What if Piquet died in this crash?

Maybe Piquet had turned a hero/idol, like Senna, in your home soil. Also, I think Cart had make changes in your rules in that year, for driver safety. Also, some F1 drivers never had come to Cart.

Bleu wrote:What if Ferrari had repeated their Austrian GP events at the European GP at the Nürburgring 2002? Not really what if about the championship, but the reactions around it and so on.

Probably Ferrari had both of your cars disqualified from the race, since he got a huge fine for this in Austria. Some team bosses had pressure FIA for a severe punishment (Briatore asked for a Ferrari DSQ in that race). F1 fans start to boycott the races and some impact in F1 revenue.

For 2003 season, FIA announces that Team Orders rules are more strict.

Funnily enough, Sauber explicitly ordered Massa to give up 6th to Heidfeld at Hockenheim that year. No penalty was issued.

wsrgo wrote:Funnily enough, Sauber explicitly ordered Massa to give up 6th to Heidfeld at Hockenheim that year. No penalty was issued.

Felipe, let Nick pass, IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!

Dj_bereta wrote:What if Indy Stewards reach in the conclusion of Penske tried to sabotage Dixon in order to help Castroneves in the championship with the pitcrew and with Power crashing with him?

Dark77 wrote:What if Piquet died in this crash?

Maybe Piquet had turned a hero/idol, like Senna, in your home soil. Also, I think Cart had make changes in your rules in that year, for driver safety. Also, some F1 drivers never had come to Cart.

Bleu wrote:What if Ferrari had repeated their Austrian GP events at the European GP at the Nürburgring 2002? Not really what if about the championship, but the reactions around it and so on.

Probably Ferrari had both of your cars disqualified from the race, since he got a huge fine for this in Austria. Some team bosses had pressure FIA for a severe punishment (Briatore asked for a Ferrari DSQ in that race). F1 fans start to boycott the races and some impact in F1 revenue.

For 2003 season, FIA announces that Team Orders rules are more strict.

I would take the IndyCar/CART safety a bit further to saying that drivers would be more cautious with the low part of the track through the rest of the month. The redesign of Indy's racing surface continues as scheduled and the Hanford Device would have emerged earlier than 1998.

wsrgo wrote:Funnily enough, Sauber explicitly ordered Massa to give up 6th to Heidfeld at Hockenheim that year. No penalty was issued.

Although, given that this is Massa we're talking about, he probably would've binned it anyway...

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

wsrgo wrote:Funnily enough, Sauber explicitly ordered Massa to give up 6th to Heidfeld at Hockenheim that year. No penalty was issued.

Although, given that this is Massa we're talking about, he probably would've binned it anyway...

So what if Massa binned it at Hockenheim in that race?

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

wsrgo wrote:Funnily enough, Sauber explicitly ordered Massa to give up 6th to Heidfeld at Hockenheim that year. No penalty was issued.

Although, given that this is Massa we're talking about, he probably would've binned it anyway...

So what if Massa binned it at Hockenheim in that race?

Heidfeld would still finish 6th anyway, unless the Masas of debris terminally damaged Nick's car.

go_Rubens wrote:

Onxy Wrecked wrote:So what if Massa binned it at Hockenheim in that race?

Heidfeld would still finish 6th anyway, unless the Masas of debris terminally damaged Nick's car.

It wouldn't be out of the question that Heidfeld would have gotten some terminal debris damage in the days of carbon fiber.

What if BAR had fuelled Zonta to the end of the race at Monza 2000?

What if Mark Webber had retired from Formula 1 at the end of 2011, as was speculated at the time? Who would have got the Red Bull drive? Buemi? Alguersuari? Raikkonen? Schumacher?

Faustus wrote:What if Mark Webber had retired from Formula 1 at the end of 2011, as was speculated at the time? Who would have got the Red Bull drive? Buemi? Alguersuari? Raikkonen? Schumacher?

Not Buemi... I bet on Raikkonen or Alguersuari.

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

Faustus wrote:What if Mark Webber had retired from Formula 1 at the end of 2011, as was speculated at the time? Who would have got the Red Bull drive? Buemi? Alguersuari? Raikkonen? Schumacher?

Not Buemi... I bet on Raikkonen or Alguersuari.

I think they would choose Alguersuari. With Raikkonen the Red Bull talks would break down like they did this year.

good_Ralf wrote:

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

Faustus wrote:What if Mark Webber had retired from Formula 1 at the end of 2011, as was speculated at the time? Who would have got the Red Bull drive? Buemi? Alguersuari? Raikkonen? Schumacher?

Not Buemi... I bet on Raikkonen or Alguersuari.

I think they would choose Alguersuari. With Raikkonen the Red Bull talks would break down like they did this year.

If Schumacher had any ambition left, he would have offered to drive for Red Bull for free for 1 year.

What if Jeff Andretti got into F1?

Faustus wrote:If Schumacher had any ambition left, he would have offered to drive for Red Bull for free for 1 year.

I ways always told that Michael was a development driver for Merc to give tech feedback.

Dark77 wrote:What if Jeff Andretti got into F1?

Probably worse than John Andretti's foray into NASCAR.

What if Massa was sacked from Ferrari at the end of 2011?

go_Rubens wrote:What if Massa was sacked from Ferrari at the end of 2011?

Sutil would get the 2012 Ferrari seat and score multiple podiums? Or Hulkenberg would do so and win at least 1 race?

good_Ralf wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:What if Massa was sacked from Ferrari at the end of 2011?

Sutil would get the 2012 Ferrari seat

No, criminals only drive Ferraris to get away from the pack

Time for a What If in the WRC Next

What if Giles Panizzi and Harri Rovenpera were good on their opposite surfaces?

Panizzi was Peugeot's Tarmac Expert when they dominated the WRC in the early 2000's (All 7 of his wins and all of his 14 podiums were on Tarmac) and Rovenpera was Peugeot's Better man on Gravel and Snow (His 1 win came in Sweden 2001 and all his 15 Podiums were either on Gravel or Snow) However on the opposite surface they were awful (Panizzi scored a 6th in Kenya 2002 but that's about it while Rovenpera's best result on Tarmac I think was 7th in Spain 2002 and Monaco 2005) So what if they were both good on all of the surfaces?

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Time for a What If in the WRC Next

What if Giles Panizzi and Harri Rovenpera were good on their opposite surfaces?

Panizzi was Peugeot's Tarmac Expert when they dominated the WRC in the early 2000's (All 7 of his wins and all of his 14 podiums were on Tarmac) and Rovenpera was Peugeot's Better man on Gravel and Snow (His 1 win came in Sweden 2001 and all his 15 Podiums were either on Gravel or Snow) However on the opposite surface they were awful (Panizzi scored a 6th in Kenya 2002 but that's about it while Rovenpera's best result on Tarmac I think was 7th in Spain 2002 and Monaco 2005) So what if they were both good on all of the surfaces?

Domination although methinks the 206 was great on Tarmac because of its short wheelbase.

What if an F1 team gave Rusty Wallace a test for s**ts and giggles?

Dark77 wrote:What if an F1 team gave Rusty Wallace a test for s**ts and giggles?

Jordan?

Dark77 wrote:What if an F1 team gave Rusty Wallace a test for s**ts and giggles?

I think it would be pretty much like Kurt Busch's CART test, runs some laps worthy of an open wheel backmarker in either series more due to lack of open wheel experience than lack of talent.

dr-baker wrote:

Dark77 wrote:What if an F1 team gave Rusty Wallace a test for s**ts and giggles?

Jordan?

Ignore that. For some odd, bizzare reason, I thought this was the trivia question thread and thought that the question was asking who had actually given him a test.

Don't know if this can be a what if, but What If the Super Touring Rules in Touring Car Racing were still allowed going into the Mid 2000s?

Also What If V12 engines had been allowed past 1995, who could you have seen using one?

gnrpoison wrote:Don't know if this can be a what if, but What If the Super Touring Rules in Touring Car Racing were still allowed going into the Mid 2000s?

Also What If V12 engines had been allowed past 1995, who could you have seen using one?

Ferrari would be an obvious choice

gnrpoison wrote:Also What If V12 engines had been allowed past 1995, who could you have seen using one?

[/quote]

Ferrari seconded. But they would have been at a huge disadvantage compared to the V10 teams. One the reasons why Ferrari struggled in the early/mid-90s was that they struggled with their V12, so for 1996 they switched to V10s.

good_Ralf wrote:

gnrpoison wrote:Also What If V12 engines had been allowed past 1995, who could you have seen using one?

Ferrari seconded. But they would have been at a huge disadvantage compared to the V10 teams. One the reasons why Ferrari struggled in the early/mid-90s was that they struggled with their V12, so for 1996 they switched to V10s.[/quote]

Didn't Toyota plan to use a V12?

Vepe wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

gnrpoison wrote:Also What If V12 engines had been allowed past 1995, who could you have seen using one?

Ferrari seconded. But they would have been at a huge disadvantage compared to the V10 teams. One the reasons why Ferrari struggled in the early/mid-90s was that they struggled with their V12, so for 1996 they switched to V10s.

Didn't Toyota plan to use a V12?

Yeah, when they first lodged their entry a V12 was on the agenda. However, after V10s were made mandatory they had to cut their cloth accordingly.

I recently read an interview in an old issue of F1 Racing with Dr. Mario Theissen, the former BMW Motorsport director. He suggested that if the V10 restriction was not enforced, teams would potentially produce V12s for more high-speed circuits like Monza such was the level of spending in the early 2000s. Just thought that was worth mentioning...

good_Ralf wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:What if Massa was sacked from Ferrari at the end of 2011?

Sutil would get the 2012 Ferrari seat and score multiple podiums? Or Hulkenberg would do so and win at least 1 race?

And probably some pay driver at Farce India or Sauber.

Ataxia wrote:Yeah, when they first lodged their entry a V12 was on the agenda. However, after V10s were made mandatory they had to cut their cloth accordingly.

I recently read an interview in an old issue of F1 Racing with Dr. Mario Theissen, the former BMW Motorsport director. He suggested that if the V10 restriction was not enforced, teams would potentially produce V12s for more high-speed circuits like Monza such was the level of spending in the early 2000s. Just thought that was worth mentioning...

It's worth noting that Toyota were not exactly happy about the sudden move to make V10's compulsory - I believe that they later claimed that they had to write off about $20 million worth of research work on their V12's, so it hurt them pretty badly financially and technically.

Onxy Wrecked wrote:

good_Ralf wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:What if Massa was sacked from Ferrari at the end of 2011?

Sutil would get the 2012 Ferrari seat and score multiple podiums? Or Hulkenberg would do so and win at least 1 race?

And probably some pay driver at Farce India or Sauber.

I cannot see Hulkenberg being chosen for 2011 - by his own admission he struggled with the step up into F1 when he raced for Williams and was thoroughly beaten by Rubens, whilst a few rash moments in the garage also made him look a little hot headed (such as when he was throwing his helmet around the Williams garage in Singapore after being knocked out in Q2 in 2010). Add that to Ferrari's long established preference for veterans - Hulkenberg only had a single season under his belt at the time - and he would probably have been ruled out pretty quickly.
As for Sutil, whilst it is possible that Ferrari might have been attracted to him as an experienced and reliable driver, the conviction for assault that year would have made him a potentially awkward choice for their sponsors and could have potentially hurt them financially.

For a potential curveball here, might Ferrari have looked to some of the veterans who were driving for the backmarker teams of the time? Glock might have been a possible target in that instance - there was some interest in him from other outfits, most notably Renault, and I believe that Ferrari did briefly weigh him up as a potential candidate too.

On the topic of Glock, that does raise an interesting question - what if Glock had accepted Renault's offer of a seat alongside Kubica for 2010?

mario wrote:
On the topic of Glock, that does raise an interesting question - what if Glock had accepted Renault's offer of a seat alongside Kubica for 2010?

I think around 70 points. With team being a bit short of money, he would be not renewed and he would not race in F1 in 2011. Next year Ferrari dumps Massa and takes him. He would score about 160 points in 2012 and around 100 now. Kimi would still return and replace him for 2014.

Anthony Davidson would have taken Virgin seat for 2010, but he quits after lack of progress in 2011. They keep d'Ambrosio and place Pic alongside him in 2012.

Bleu wrote:

mario wrote:
On the topic of Glock, that does raise an interesting question - what if Glock had accepted Renault's offer of a seat alongside Kubica for 2010?

I think around 70 points.

That's less than half of what Bob scored. So Glock would have had a season of fortunes between Kubica and Petrov. I wonder what the scene would have been in the races Kubica scored podiums in. Would Glock have been able to match him or would have he been a DBT?
Nice scenario of what would have happened, Bleu.

Bleu wrote:

mario wrote:
On the topic of Glock, that does raise an interesting question - what if Glock had accepted Renault's offer of a seat alongside Kubica for 2010?

I think around 70 points. With team being a bit short of money, he would be not renewed and he would not race in F1 in 2011. Next year Ferrari dumps Massa and takes him. He would score about 160 points in 2012 and around 100 now. Kimi would still return and replace him for 2014.

Anthony Davidson would have taken Virgin seat for 2010, but he quits after lack of progress in 2011. They keep d'Ambrosio and place Pic alongside him in 2012.

NOPE. If Ferrari had replaced Massa with a Renault driver, obviously they would've picked Kubica. You know, the one they tried to replace him with in 2009?

Salamander wrote:

Bleu wrote:I think around 70 points. With team being a bit short of money, he would be not renewed and he would not race in F1 in 2011. Next year Ferrari dumps Massa and takes him. He would score about 160 points in 2012 and around 100 now. Kimi would still return and replace him for 2014.

Anthony Davidson would have taken Virgin seat for 2010, but he quits after lack of progress in 2011. They keep d'Ambrosio and place Pic alongside him in 2012.

NOPE. If Ferrari had replaced Massa with a Renault driver, obviously they would've picked Kubica. You know, the one they tried to replace him with in 2009?

Unless Kubica still had that rally crash. Then Ferrari would need to have chosen another driver.

What if Lotus hires Montoya for the next season?

Dj_bereta wrote:What if Lotus hires Montoya for the next season?

Firstly, what was Eric Boullier smoking?!
JPM will still have some speed left but not enough to return to his glory days, most likely to be beaten by his obviously younger teammate. Salamander made some pretty good suggestions as to why Montoya shouldn't come back. I think JPM will have a bet with Grosjean over who can take out the most cars on the first lap, will score some points at least, a podium maybe and then is likely to get promptly fired after some disputes with the team, replaced by the Hulk or Valsecchi.

What if Esteban Guerrieri had managed to raise the $8 million necessary to secure second Virgin seat for the 2011 season?