Grand Prix Rejects

Dark77 wrote:What if Nigel Mansell moved to NASCAR rather than Indycar?

I don't think he would have done very well. There is just such a massive difference between the weight and braking of an open-wheeler and a stock car that it would have taken him at least a year to figure it out, and then some. I don't know how well he did in touring cars during those one offs, but it'd be similar to his performance there, only worse. NASCAR is the United States biggest talent pool, so I think he would have struggled.

Hound55 wrote:

Dark77 wrote:What if Nigel Mansell moved to NASCAR rather than Indycar?

I don't think he would have done very well. There is just such a massive difference between the weight and braking of an open-wheeler and a stock car that it would have taken him at least a year to figure it out, and then some. I don't know how well he did in touring cars during those one offs, but it'd be similar to his performance there, only worse. NASCAR is the United States biggest talent pool, so I think he would have struggled.

Well he did a few races for Ford in the BTCC in 1998, and spent most of them crashing or being well off the pace, apart from the famous Donington race, where in typical Mansell fashion, he forced his way through to the lead (which cost Anthony Reid the championship in hindsight ), and then threw the car off the road with a few laps to go, finishing 5th. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F6cXtaMSIw

What if Mike Thackwell held off his debut in F1 until the mid-1980s, considering the chap was a force in F2 and F3000?

I've been wondering - What if F1 stopped existing altogether?

I know, it's not a realistic scenario at all, but let's say, if 2014 was to be the last season of F1, what would happen to racing after that? What would the manufacturers and drivers do, how about the classic grands prix - would the big teams soon establish something F1-esque, and if not, where would they go? Formula E would be the most logical choice to continue F1-styled racing, but are electric cars still too small a niche to make it popular? WEC would most likely appeal to manufacturers - at least Ferrari and Mercedes - given the similarities with F1 in car development and all that, but could sportscar/endurance racing ever be appealing enough to be a TV sport? NASCAR would be left as the only 'major' series in the world, likely the sure paychecks there would lure in a few drivers. Indycar already attracts drivers from Europe, and if it played its cards right, it could take F1's place in Europe - but would that happen, given it's Indycar we're speaking of? A couple of drivers would surely try something like MotoGP or WRC, too.

anyone with a better imagination?

My guess is that Ferrari would start a breakaway series like they've threatened from time to time. Whether they'd get the teams following them would remain to be seen, because I'm sure the regulations would be designed to suit Ferrari and no one else!

I'd actually support that, because on the hypothetical calendars they generally include Adelaide

giraurd wrote:I've been wondering - What if F1 stopped existing altogether?

I'd give up on my degree and do something else with my life entirely...

What of Minardi got the Ford engines for 1991 instead of the Ferrari V12s?

What race control restarted the 2002 Australian Grand Prix after the start crash?

good_Ralf wrote:What race control restarted the 2002 Australian Grand Prix after the start crash?

I twhink there would be some teams without spare cars or only one spare car for one driver, so I think there'd be a few cars out anyway, but Minardi wouldn't score any points thougn

go_Rubens wrote:What of Minardi got the Ford engines for 1991 instead of the Ferrari V12s?

7th in the WCC.

good_Ralf wrote:What race control restarted the 2002 Australian Grand Prix after the start crash?

Mark Webber fulfills the 3 race contract with Minardi and maybe hangs around a few years as a test driver (maybe gets a proper shot), then probably ends up in V8 Supercars if he can't get to Red Bull with Newey.

What if the TV broadcast dispute in the leadup to the 1998 French Grand Prix hadn't been resolved and the Grand Prix had to have been cancelled?

Wizzie wrote:What if the TV broadcast dispute in the leadup to the 1998 French Grand Prix hadn't been resolved and the Grand Prix had to have been cancelled?

After the Nurburgring (round 15, I mean 14...) Hakkinen would have been on 86 points and Schuey on 76 and with 7 wins to Schuey's 5, Mika would have been champion one race early. As for the race itself, Verstappen would have had to wait another chance for his Stewart debut and the no. of red-flagged GPs would have been one less. Plus the cancellation wouldn't have been good for the sport.

Wizzie wrote:What if the TV broadcast dispute in the leadup to the 1998 French Grand Prix hadn't been resolved and the Grand Prix had to have been cancelled?

Bernie might well have snuck Kylami back onto the calender for a short while.

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

Wizzie wrote:What if the TV broadcast dispute in the leadup to the 1998 French Grand Prix hadn't been resolved and the Grand Prix had to have been cancelled?

Bernie might well have snuck Kylami back onto the calender for a short while.

...in the middle of the Southern Hemisphere winter?

dinizintheoven wrote:

takagi_for_the_win wrote:

Wizzie wrote:What if the TV broadcast dispute in the leadup to the 1998 French Grand Prix hadn't been resolved and the Grand Prix had to have been cancelled?

Bernie might well have snuck Kylami back onto the calender for a short while.

...in the middle of the Southern Hemisphere winter?

The tyre-temperature chaos in the 2006 Australian GP was caused by a cooler climate due to the date of the race being moved forward as the Commonwealth Games were being hosted. So maybe hosting a Kyalami GP at that time of year would lead to some welcome carnage...

What if the FIA had kept the 3.5L engines after 1994 and what could the power outputs have been.

I am confident that 1982 has been done to death on this thread, but I am not sure if either of these questions have been considered before:

What if John Watson had actually won the 1982 WDC - in particular, would he have had the leverage and prestige to get the money he was after out of McLaren in 1984 and deny Alain Prost the seat, or alternatively get picked up by another competitive team? What would McLaren have looked like in 1984 with another year of Lauda/Watson?

Alternatively, what if Alain Prost had won the WDC in either 1982 or 1983 and maintained a better relationship with Renault (starting with, say, Rene Arnoux obeying team orders at the 82 French GP)? Would he have been likely to move to McLaren in 1984, and if not, who would have been likely to replace Watson at McLaren instead? If Prost stayed with Renault in 1984 (as reigning WDC, perhaps), when would he have left Renault and where would he go?

In the slightly longer term, what would F1 have looked like in the mid to late 1980s if Prost had never gone to McLaren?

roblomas52 wrote:What if the FIA had kept the 3.5L engines after 1994 and what could the power outputs have been.

I thought they did keep the 3.5L engines after 1994, but only until the end of 1995. Then I think they restricted it to 3.0L.

But anyway, with that question, I think that if V12s were kept, they would have gotten closer to the 850-900bhp range. As for V10s, around the 800bhp range again, and the V8s around about 700-750bhp range (based off my impressions of power outputs in 1994 compared to 1999, and the estimated outputs being for 1999). Although there was absolutely no reason to keep the engine sizes at 3.5L anyway, unless if you wanted bulky cars going around Monaco with passing even more unlikely. So, even with the death of Senna not in mind, I don't think the 3.5L rule would have not lasted much longer anyway.

What if Peugeot stuck with Michelin's for the 2005 WRC season instead of joining Pirelli? Bearing in mind that the Michelin's were superior?

More_Blue_Flags wrote:I am confident that 1982 has been done to death on this thread, but I am not sure if either of these questions have been considered before:

What if John Watson had actually won the 1982 WDC - in particular, would he have had the leverage and prestige to get the money he was after out of McLaren in 1984 and deny Alain Prost the seat, or alternatively get picked up by another competitive team? What would McLaren have looked like in 1984 with another year of Lauda/Watson?

Alternatively, what if Alain Prost had won the WDC in either 1982 or 1983 and maintained a better relationship with Renault (starting with, say, Rene Arnoux obeying team orders at the 82 French GP)? Would he have been likely to move to McLaren in 1984, and if not, who would have been likely to replace Watson at McLaren instead? If Prost stayed with Renault in 1984 (as reigning WDC, perhaps), when would he have left Renault and where would he go?

In the slightly longer term, what would F1 have looked like in the mid to late 1980s if Prost had never gone to McLaren?

I remember reading in Autosport when they previewed the 2004 season (and they were doing a 20 years ago retrospective) than Prost's options would have been Brabham and Lotus - this however was based on Gilles Villeneuve having not died and moving to McLaren, with him having fallen out with Ferrari. Lotus was more likely as Brabham at the time was Piquet's kingdom, and Peter Warr wanted rid of Mansell. So for the first part of that, I'm saying he would have gone to Lotus alongside De Angelis.

For the second part (Prost staying at Renault), then for McLaren (assuming Villeneuve has died in 1982 as in real life), then Watson probably stays on another year or two, then Senna goes there 2 or 3 years early when Watson or Lauda retires.

What if Didier Pironi had returned to Formula 1 with AGS?

FullMetalJack wrote:What if Didier Pironi had returned to Formula 1 with AGS?

With those awful leg injuries, he wouldn't have scored points (he would be driving a poor car as well) unless there a race of insane attrition. Panis was partly uncompetitive in 1998 because of the pins in his legs IIRC after his crash the previous year.

good_Ralf wrote:

FullMetalJack wrote:What if Didier Pironi had returned to Formula 1 with AGS?

With those awful leg injuries, he wouldn't have scored points (he would be driving a poor car as well) unless there a race of insane attrition. Panis was partly uncompetitive in 1998 because of the pins in his legs IIRC after his crash the previous year.

However, could it be said that had he returned to Formula One, he would not have been racing speedboats on spare weekends in 1987?

tommykl wrote:However, could it be said that had he returned to Formula One, he would not have been racing speedboats on spare weekends in 1987?

He probably would have retired again and might have done speedboat racing anyway. I don't want/need to go into detail...

What if Tony Stewart's contract with Gibbs Racing allowed him to attempt a qualifying run for the 2004 Indianapolis 500 with AJ Foyt?

What if Marc Hynes managed to get an F1 seat in 2000/2001? Remember, he was the chap who beat Jenson Button and a whole field of future F1 Rejects/Lucky Bastards to the 1999 British Formula 3 Championship...

East Londoner wrote:What if Marc Hynes managed to get an F1 seat in 2000/2001? Remember, he was the chap who beat Jenson Button and a whole field of future F1 Rejects/Lucky Bastards to the 1999 British Formula 3 Championship...

Probably would not be entering the BTCC this year for Triple 8 having been out of motorsport for 5 years...

What if Ayrton Senna had driven for Tyrrell and Martin Brundle had gone to Toleman in 1984? I would expect that both would have put in some exceptional drives and got onto the podium a few times (just like real life), and with a bit of luck Brundle wouldn't have had his season-ending accident at Dallas. The big question for me, however, is what would have been the impact of Senna being stripped of his 1984 results and points as a result of Tyrrell's disqualification from the season? Would Senna still have been picked up by Lotus in 1985, and if not, would he have stayed on at Tyrrell for 1985 as Brundle did?

I can't imagine Ayrton Senna stoically accepting disqualification from a season and staying in F1, and I certainly can't imagine him driving again for a team that put him in that position.

More_Blue_Flags wrote:What if Ayrton Senna had driven for Tyrrell and Martin Brundle had gone to Toleman in 1984? I would expect that both would have put in some exceptional drives and got onto the podium a few times (just like real life), and with a bit of luck Brundle wouldn't have had his season-ending accident at Dallas. The big question for me, however, is what would have been the impact of Senna being stripped of his 1984 results and points as a result of Tyrrell's disqualification from the season? Would Senna still have been picked up by Lotus in 1985, and if not, would he have stayed on at Tyrrell for 1985 as Brundle did?

I think that Senna would still have been picked up by Lotus in 1985, as Tyrrell's exclusion was completely on the team for their failure in building a car for the regulations. Brundle may have gotten away with a podium in the Toleman, but I feel this would have been a slim outcome. So, I feel Senna would have managed his way into Lotus thanks to Peter Warr, and Brundle would have likely gone to another team or stayed with Toleman after 1984 assuming he wouldn't want to drive for Tyrrell either.

I can't imagine Ayrton Senna stoically accepting disqualification from a season and staying in F1, and I certainly can't imagine him driving again for a team that put him in that position.

I feel the same here. Senna was a person who would have managed himself and help the team manage itself without building something beyond the regulations, if you ask me. I feel he wouldn't have wanted to drive for Tyrrell again if he couldn't trust the team to build him a legal car. And he also had the opinion that he had the given power to win, which he did, and if he would to be disqualified a full season, he really wouldn't want to stay there.

This what if scenario about Tyrrell brings me to another question. What if Stefan Bellof chose to stay in F1? Who would he have driven for if he did stay in F1?

go_Rubens wrote:This what if scenario about Tyrrell brings me to another question. What if Stefan Bellof chose to stay in F1? Who would he have driven for if he did stay in F1?

When I was very new to the forum (back in the summer of 2013), I learnt on here how Bellof had a Ferrari contract for 1986-?... Chillingly ironic how both he and Alboreto (who I'm sure would have been his future teammate) were killed driving sportcars.

What if Renault didn't sack Alain Prost, and Eddie Cheever at the end of 1983?

go_Rubens wrote:This what if scenario about Tyrrell brings me to another question. What if Stefan Bellof chose to stay in F1? Who would he have driven for if he did stay in F1?

Something tells me that he didn't choose to leave F1....

As Bellof tragically had his life cut short at the 1985 1000km of Spa, that's an insensitive comment, don't you think?

pasta_maldonado wrote:

go_Rubens wrote:This what if scenario about Tyrrell brings me to another question. What if Stefan Bellof chose to stay in F1? Who would he have driven for if he did stay in F1?

Something tells me that he didn't choose to leave F1....

As Bellof tragically had his life cut short at the 1085 1000km of Spa, that's an insensitive comment, don't you think?

I was always under the impression that he'd chosen to focus more on sportscars than F1, but that appears not to be the case. My apologies for that question then.

DOSBoot wrote:What if Renault didn't sack Alain Prost, and Eddie Cheever at the end of 1983?

I think Prost and Cheever's 1984 at Renault would have looked similar to Warwick and Tambay's in real life. Maybe Prost could pick up a win or two (Brands Hatch or Hockenheim, perhaps?), but the RE50 wasn't a championship contender. Prost looks to leave Renault for 1985, but Cheever's solid if unspectacular efforts as a loyal number 2 may win him another year at Renault. Either way, I can't see many more opportunities opening up for Cheever than in real life.

Where Prost goes in 1985 is largely determined by what happens in 1984 at McLaren. If John Watson stays, that looks like the most likely destination for Prost in 1985 and F1 history as we know it largely continues - with the exception being that Lauda's WDC win in 84 is more dominant, with Prost in a Renault and Watson in a McLaren coming in with at most two wins each.

But what if, even without Prost on the market, McLaren decide Watson is still asking for too much money for 84 and replace him? Are Tambay or Warwick the best options, and is anyone picked up by McLaren likely to be let go after just one year for Prost? Perhaps Prost has to wait at Renault until 1986 for a McLaren spot, or he competes with Mansell for a Williams drive in 1985? Or does he end up taking Piquet's place in a declining Brabham and the Professor never gets a WDC?

What if Jenson Button had driven in the 2011 Telstra 500 for Triple 8?

What if Niki Lauda had gone to Renault in 1985? In his autobiography he said that an agreement of intent was signed but Renault backed out because they were about to announce some cutbacks in the road car division and wouldn't have been able to justify paying Lauda a load of money.

Faustus wrote:What if Niki Lauda had gone to Renault in 1985? In his autobiography he said that an agreement of intent was signed but Renault backed out because they were about to announce some cutbacks in the road car division and wouldn't have been able to justify paying Lauda a load of money.

He would have got some podiums, maybe even a race victory, but would be far from the championship.

What if Susie Wolff would divorce Toto, but still keep the surname. And CNN reporter Wolf Blitzer divorced his wife and married Susie, taking her surname.

Jocke1 wrote:What if Susie Wolff would divorce Toto, but still keep the surname. And CNN reporter Wolf Blitzer divorced his wife and married Susie, taking her surname.

Or, as is possible nowadays (so I am led to believe), Wolf Blitzer married Toto Wolff, and Wolf took the surname Wolff?

And they both teamed up with Walter Wolf to reform the Wolf racing team!?

FA1L wrote:

Faustus wrote:What if Niki Lauda had gone to Renault in 1985? In his autobiography he said that an agreement of intent was signed but Renault backed out because they were about to announce some cutbacks in the road car division and wouldn't have been able to justify paying Lauda a load of money.

He would have got some podiums, maybe even a race victory, but would be far from the championship.

Lauda may have picked up a podium or two early in the season, but I don't think the RE60 was a race-winning car unless exceptional circumstances presented themselves. I would imagine Lauda losing interest even earlier in the season than he did with McLaren, and both Lauda and Renault would have left the sport at the end of 1985.

In Lauda's biography did he suggest how would have been likely to have been dropped by Renault to make room for him, and who McLaren would have looked for as a replacement? Either Warwick or Tambay in a McLaren in 1985 might have been worth seeing, but I would imagine that Prost would still win the 1985 title by a fair margin.